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ChickenOfTomorrow has issued a correction as of 22:07 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2017 17:21
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I'll be attending my first DSA meeting tomorrow. Looking at the FB event details is making me leery this will be more liberal than socialist.  quote:We will be holding a general meeting to focus on forming working groups. These working groups will be composed of smaller teams focused on individual issues (like feminism, anti-racism, outreach, etc.)
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Feb 28, 2017 17:41
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local chapters are extra focused on women and minority outreach right now because the popularity of the DSA online is mostly in white male circles so that's a lot of the new membership I imagine they're trying to head off the brocialist accusations early by getting involved in diverse organization
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Feb 28, 2017 17:53
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Mythical Moderate posted:I'll be attending my first DSA meeting tomorrow. Looking at the FB event details is making me leery this will be more liberal than socialist. The revolution is intersectional
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Feb 28, 2017 18:01
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I'm all for that, we need to build our base as much as possible. I recently moved from a huge liberal west coast city where everyone became so wrapped up in idpol issues above all else rather than the big picture class issues. I'm just a bit fearful of the potential of more of the same. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.
Mythical Moderate has issued a correction as of 18:13 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 18:09
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Mythical Moderate posted:I'm all for that, we need to build our base as much as possible. I recently moved from a huge liberal west coast city where everyone became so wrapped up in idpol issues above all else rather than the big picture class issues. I'm just a bit fearful of the potential of more of the same. Hopefully I'm proven wrong. Not to dogpile on you, but all 4 of the DSA affiliated meetings I have gone to in Baltimore and San Francisco have 1. mentioned the lack of diversity in the room, AND 2. the person to bring it up also be distinctly not a liberal. So don't get too worried.
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Feb 28, 2017 18:45
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https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/836304657165201409 Life comes at you fast.
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Feb 28, 2017 19:42
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Ruzihm posted:1. mentioned the lack of diversity in the room, AND It worries me that racial/sexual diversity seems to be their absolute primary concern right now when the social class of the folks who attend is even more stark, at least in my area (we have minorities and a good number of women, but there's a LOT of students and professionals of a very specific sort of type, and very few labourers and church folk and rural people)
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Feb 28, 2017 21:23
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GlyphGryph posted:It worries me that racial/sexual diversity seems to be their absolute primary concern right now when the social class of the folks who attend is even more stark, at least in my area (we have minorities and a good number of women, but there's a LOT of students and professionals of a very specific sort of type, and very few labourers and church folk and rural people) i honestly don't get what the issue is. is the idea "we can't move forward until our group looks like a local census"?
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Feb 28, 2017 21:29
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I think it's more "nobody will ever take us seriously if 90% of our intersectional socialist movement is white male yuppies", which I think is a legitimate concern
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Feb 28, 2017 21:36
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Lack of nonwhite support killed Bernie's campaign, so I'm not surprised that the DSA is trying to stress racial intersectionality in order to have a successful socialist movement
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Feb 28, 2017 21:44
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HorseRenoir posted:Lack of nonwhite support killed Bernie's campaign, so I'm not surprised that the DSA is trying to stress racial intersectionality in order to have a successful socialist movement Yeah but that was clinton bullshit tho
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Feb 28, 2017 21:46
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Phi230 posted:Yeah but that was clinton bullshit tho It was bullshit that was able to stick.
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Feb 28, 2017 21:47
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HorseRenoir posted:Lack of nonwhite support killed Bernie's campaign, so I'm not surprised that the DSA is trying to stress racial intersectionality in order to have a successful socialist movement And the lack of lack of middle class industrial/labour support killed Clinton's. I'm not saying anything bad about racial outreach which is good and noble, but I do sort of get the feeling that most of the outreach I've seen has been "let's find people that are culturally identical but have different colored skin" which... eh. I guess I'm still smarting from a turn on the rocketchat that devolved into something akin to "I don't think we should reach out to THOSE sorts of people".
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Feb 28, 2017 21:49
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There's also the danger that if you have too many people in a room of a certain type, they'll decide to work on issues that are not actually important to the broad swath of people in their community. Compared to the establishment we don't have money, experience, connections or institutional power. What we can have is numbers, but not if we're not speaking to all working people. Socialist movements are mass movements or they're nothing. That being said, I'm always a little nervous when people frame these concerns using a lens of recruitment, because that acts like getting people of color in the room is the end goal. That way lies tokenism. The real end goal should be building a movement that actually addresses the unmet needs of these diverse communities. If we can show that we're helping make things better for them, however they themselves define 'better,' then they'll want to be a part of it. We have to take a service first mentality.
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Feb 28, 2017 21:53
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we gotta be intersectional in all ways I figure we look at what marginalized groups our chapters don't have, talk to people in those groups to see what their concerns are, figure out how socialism can help them, and start doing it: meet people where they're at, do the work, trust the process, build a movement. for example is your group low on PoC? What work are you doing on issues that disproportionately affect PoC (e.g. police brutality, generational poverty, drug laws)? Are you partnering or allying with PoC led organizations that are doing work on these issues? If you're not, maaaaaaybe that has something to do with why your chapter isn't appealing to PoC? work on that before trying to recruit more PoC. presumably a part of why we're here is because we believe another world is possible. we gotta be the change we wanna see in the world, or we're no better than tankies having internet slapfights over Stalin apologia ymmv. ChickenOfTomorrow has issued a correction as of 22:03 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 22:01
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or, what BB said 
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Feb 28, 2017 22:02
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Baby Babbeh posted:That being said, I'm always a little nervous when people frame these concerns using a lens of recruitment, because that acts like getting people of color in the room is the end goal. That way lies tokenism. The real end goal should be building a movement that actually addresses the unmet needs of these diverse communities. If we can show that we're helping make things better for them, however they themselves define 'better,' then they'll want to be a part of it. We have to take a service first mentality. 100% this. I caught a Facebook post the other day from a friend complaining that she constantly has guys in tech asking her to help them find more women to make their companies more diverse. It's a noble goal, but her complaint was that they're effectively using her as a shortcut to help hit a quota instead of actually doing the self-analysis and work that would be necessary to create a truly inclusive workplace. People can tell when that's what you're doing and we need to not fall into that trap. Hulk Krogan has issued a correction as of 22:23 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 22:17
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While intersectionality is cool and good and actively striving to combat systemic social issues hand in hand with actively combating systemic economic issues is cool and good I would like to point folks towards an interesting Jacobin article on the subject of representation: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/02/left-diversity-people-color-white-identitarian-solidarity-difference/ Remember also that the Democratic establishment has worked overtime to convince people that social and economic justice are an either/or proposition. The reality of course is that bolstering one bolsters the other, and don't be afraid to outright propagandize that message if necessary. Now all of that said don't forget that the beauty of working within an organization is precisely that committees can target actions to specific concerns. If you get people splitting off to address, say, racial justice, let them handle it until they get back to the whole local with a straightforward group action. Don't dismiss one committee as less important for any reason. Work on what you think you're the most capable of working on in the meantime.
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Feb 28, 2017 22:30
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So what you're saying is we need to poll black people to find out whether they like speedy or not-so-speedy socialist dating.
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Feb 28, 2017 22:33
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And thus the democratic in democratic socialism.
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Feb 28, 2017 23:47
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Hulk Krogan posted:100% this. I caught a Facebook post the other day from a friend complaining that she constantly has guys in tech asking her to help them find more women to make their companies more diverse. this seems like the natural outcome of being super-concerned with representation within individual groups working towards economic justice.
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Mar 1, 2017 02:03
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going to my first meeting on thursday and i'm p excited, its the first meeting after perez getting the DNC chair and whatever this piss speech was about 
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Mar 1, 2017 05:17
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What if I want my DSA to be full of black people because I like them more than white people, is that OK?
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Mar 1, 2017 05:19
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Ace of Baes posted:What if I want my DSA to be full of black people because I like them more than white people, is that OK? That's just common sense.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:20
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Personally before I make any decision I ask at least 3 POCs, two of which are women. My wife won't go out to dinner anymore because she calls the caucus process "time consuming", but I just couldn't eat an Arby-Q without the say so of a Punjabi Sikh housewife.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:25
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Your first problem was not marrying the Punjabi Sikh in the first place.
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Mar 1, 2017 06:46
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gay
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Mar 1, 2017 07:16
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From my perspective it seems like good policy to build a coalition with the other people hosed over by the systems we seek to battle. You have to put in effort so that you don't come off as desperate for the good optics of your United Colors of Benetton protest or as a paternalistic mediocre white man telling all those minorities what they're doing wrong. I'll bet the best way to deal with this issue is to keep lines of communication open with extant protest groups in minority communities and offering help situationally when we actually have something to offer. Boston at least already has a Coalition Building working group for what I assume is that purpose.
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Mar 1, 2017 07:21
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i literally scroll through this thread just looking for the quote box color so if you requested a title and don't get it in like 72 hours it's because you didn't quote my post and suck
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Mar 1, 2017 07:38
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logikv9 posted:i literally scroll through this thread just looking for the quote box color so if you requested a title and don't get it in like 72 hours it's because you didn't quote my post and suck 
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Mar 1, 2017 10:31
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GlyphGryph posted:And the lack of lack of middle class industrial/labour support killed Clinton's. Phone posting I was at the Queen's meeting last night and I got a sense of this . More than once the topic of leadership roles came up and the sentence immediately following was " looking for women and people of color especially!!!". I get why this is important and I'm not against women or minorities in anyway, but I think consistently specifying these qualities is a mistake if that makes sense. Just acknowledge off the bat that it is an all inclusive group ( I thought this was already the case). Also the organizational structure / how they approach issues seemed inefficient and unfocused. I'm going to try and help out my working group but also thinking about switching. Was anyone in Labor or Environment?
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Mar 1, 2017 13:45
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Your first problem was not marrying the Punjabi Sikh in the first place. She said my katana doesn't count as a kirpan, so I had to leave her.
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Mar 1, 2017 14:22
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Lactose Is Wack posted:Phone posting I was one of the people running the meeting (but not a working group meeting), and I'd love to hear more about your feedback. Totally feel free to publicly post it here, or PM if you're more comfortable with that. I was the one who did the little welcome thing. Bonus meeting size bragging: https://twitter.com/fotemp/status/836732961726808064
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Mar 1, 2017 15:00
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it is good to make an explicit and repeated point of looking to fill leadership positions with people from different backgrounds imho
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Mar 1, 2017 15:21
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jarofpiss posted:it is good to make an explicit and repeated point of looking to fill leadership positions with people from different backgrounds imho I was at the Queens DSA meeting last night and I agree. Really dug the camaraderie and looking forward to the work ahead!
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Mar 1, 2017 15:30
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https://twitter.com/DemSocialists/status/836641945380392961 The DSA is literally going to be triple it's pre-election size in a week's time.
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Mar 1, 2017 18:41
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theres nothing wrong with putting in place practices which counterbalance decades of marginalization i mean ideally we'd be at the point where barriers to full participation are eliminated, full communism now, comrades also this is me plugging the 'progressive stack' facilitation technique
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Mar 1, 2017 20:19
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Phi230 posted:The revolution is intersectional It is unional
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Mar 1, 2017 22:48
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logikv9 posted:
Please do the needful. Thanks! 
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Mar 1, 2017 22:54
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Hello DSA thread. 