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I think everyone needs to move past DNC chair. Fight the next battle not the one already lost. I think Bannon and Cambridge Analytica have told Trump division of the left is the best route he can take for the future. He's already made tweets trying to do that. I wanted Ellison to win, like I wanted Bernie. But DNC poo poo is done, time to move on.
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Feb 28, 2017 21:16
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Oh, I'm past the Chair election. But we should never be getting past the DNC. We need more leftists on that committee.
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Feb 28, 2017 21:26
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Perez is nothing if not an utterly lackluster speaker.
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Feb 28, 2017 21:28
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Mr.Citrus posted:I think Bannon and Cambridge Analytica have told Trump division of the left is the best route he can take for the future. I might start tracking down everything I can find on the place to try to suss out their methodologies and steal the ever-loving poo poo out of them.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:08
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Veyrall posted:We seriously need to figure out a way to make our own version of Cambridge Analytica. Everything I've read makes them seem like the premier king-makers right now. Granted, they have seriously the most factually wrong ideas, because both Trump and Bannon seem to genuinely believe that truth is a lie. It's technocratic idiocy at root. They're not responsible for the loss of confidence in neoliberalism/global economies and the rise of nationalism. They're just claiming victories that were unlikely but not meaningfully the result of their work. Plus facebook is clamping down on the bullshit news sites that were key to CA's strategy.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:14
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Jack Gladney posted:It's technocratic idiocy at root. They're not responsible for the loss of confidence in neoliberalism/global economies and the rise of nationalism. They're just claiming victories that were unlikely but not meaningfully the result of their work. Plus facebook is clamping down on the bullshit news sites that were key to CA's strategy.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:16
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Veyrall posted:We seriously need to figure out a way to make our own version of Cambridge Analytica. Everything I've read makes them seem like the premier king-makers right now. Granted, they have seriously the most factually wrong ideas, because both Trump and Bannon seem to genuinely believe that truth is a lie. http://littleatoms.com/news-science/donald-trump-didnt-win-election-through-facebook quote:So if you step right back and look at all this, what do we see? We see a data science firm with Steve Bannon on the board, bigly claims about its powers, whose exact methodology is unclear to us. We see a candidate, Donald Trump, who used the same successful strategy right the way through his campaign whether he was employing Cambridge Analytica or a random dude with HTML skills. We have another candidate, Ted Cruz, who used the same firm and tanked. We have another candidate, Hillary Clinton, who used something very similar to Cambridge Analytica and also lost.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:10
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coyo7e posted:Wait do you mean "the republican party's speaking points for the last 20 years" or are you actually gonna go there and blame liberals for how the republican party has acted since Bill Clinton was still in office I don't completely understand the question. I'm just saying that the cultural shifts responsible for the rise of isolationist ethno-nationalism are independent of whatever CA says it's doing and so it's not really possible to measure the effectiveness of their advertising strategies.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:24
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FAUXTON posted:Dude rolls in here basically saying everyone needs to hear Nazis out and accept that maybe there's something to the jobless cracker mindset of "immigrants/taxes took my job" instead of "unfettered capitalism took my job and my home and any hope of recovering and I helped them do it" which is where people should be directing the discussion. I mean you don't want to call them jobless crackers to their face or blame them directly but you certainly want to help them spot the enemy. They got duped, plain and simple. They ought to be mad, you are there to help them extract revenge on the Romneys and Trumps and Bushes and Jamie Dimons of the world. These power brokers don't care, the jobless cracker doesn't even exist to these people. They're just a mark on a ballot to be conned and traded away for more money for them and them alone. You are creating a fallacy in your argument by assuming that because I believe in free speech that it means I must agree with everything any will say. My argument is if people don't feel comfortable to come out with their opinions then how can we change a persons mindsets? As I said they become the silent majority. I mentioned I used to have a right wing mindset (conservative voter originally). I used to vote conservative because I believed in rewarding hard work and did not like the benefit haven that the UK had become. This was of course all nonsense generated from the media). But then in my teens I was exposed to some pretty interesting debates in college where people spoke freely. I wasn't insulted for my perspective, but I was just told things from new perspectives. I realised my view of the world was misinformed and began to change. I'm still changing now as change is gradual, but I only change when I am exposed to people's opinions (aka free speech).
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Mar 1, 2017 02:30
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Manic X posted:You are creating a fallacy in your argument by assuming that because I believe in free speech that it means I must agree with everything any will say. My argument is if people don't feel comfortable to come out with their opinions then how can we change a persons mindsets? As I said they become the silent majority. I mentioned I used to have a right wing mindset (conservative voter originally). I used to vote conservative because I believed in rewarding hard work and did not like the benefit haven that the UK had become. This was of course all nonsense generated from the media). But then in my teens I was exposed to some pretty interesting debates in college where people spoke freely. I wasn't insulted for my perspective, but I was just told things from new perspectives. I realised my view of the world was misinformed and began to change. I'm still changing now as change is gradual, but I only change when I am exposed to people's opinions (aka free speech). Perhaps we could skip the first step by stopping people saying the horseshit you initially believed. Much more efficient.
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Mar 1, 2017 02:34
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I agree, but the problem is that many people genuinely believe the horseshit and need to be exposed to open debates to realise they are wrong. As great as it would be to just change the way the media handles news stories, it's not going to happen.
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Mar 1, 2017 02:39
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Triangulation may have been a valid response after 12 years of Reaganism. However, we need to be careful not to reify our tools. As the old Koan teaches us, we need to distinguish from the Moon and the finger pointing at the Moon. The Republican Party really is the "Party of Ideas" as the old Bush-era byline goes. The "ideas" are mostly window dressing, sure. But they've kept up with the latest fashion trends. Dems, on the other hand, have not only not kept up with various fashion trends but are still saying that the '92 look is not only a look but *the look*. I believe there is more ideological diversity on the Democratic side but there is more meaningful discussion between ideologies on the Republican side. Being out there and being visible is important. Mainstream dems will shut you out because you are "too involved" and they'll keep losing so primary those fuckers. Primary primary primary.
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Mar 1, 2017 02:41
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https://www.facebook.com/events/253333151760473/ anybody else going? i'm planning on being there with some antifa friends.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:18
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Jack Gladney posted:I don't completely understand the question. I'm just saying that the cultural shifts responsible for the rise of isolationist ethno-nationalism are independent of whatever CA says it's doing and so it's not really possible to measure the effectiveness of their advertising strategies.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:27
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Manic X posted:You are creating a fallacy in your argument by assuming that because I believe in free speech that it means I must agree with everything any will say. My argument is if people don't feel comfortable to come out with their opinions then how can we change a persons mindsets? No, you said that you were angry with your dad for being an idiot, but then you calmed down and now just disagree with him. This is the big problem I have with a lot of people who want this weird modern version of "free speech" - it winds up translating into "you're not allowed to express strong emotion against incredibly bad, actively harmful ideas because that might have a chilling effect and speech should be wholly free of any kind of responsibility or consequence."
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Mar 1, 2017 05:46
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ate all the Oreos posted:No, you said that you were angry with your dad for being an idiot, but then you calmed down and now just disagree with him. This is the big problem I have with a lot of people who want this weird modern version of "free speech" - it winds up translating into "you're not allowed to express strong emotion against incredibly bad, actively harmful ideas because that might have a chilling effect and speech should be wholly free of any kind of responsibility or consequence."
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Mar 1, 2017 05:57
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coyo7e posted:Turns out that trolls tend to run home and cling to mommy's skirts when poo poo gets complicated and starts upsetting them https://psmag.com/on-the-milo-bus-with-the-lost-boys-of-americas-new-right-629a77e87986#.j8s0qp96g That was a very interesting article. Pro-click.
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Mar 1, 2017 06:35
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Manic X posted:You are creating a fallacy in your argument by assuming that because I believe in free speech that it means I must agree with everything any will say. My argument is if people don't feel comfortable to come out with their opinions then how can we change a persons mindsets? As I said they become the silent majority. I mentioned I used to have a right wing mindset (conservative voter originally). I used to vote conservative because I believed in rewarding hard work and did not like the benefit haven that the UK had become. This was of course all nonsense generated from the media). But then in my teens I was exposed to some pretty interesting debates in college where people spoke freely. I wasn't insulted for my perspective, but I was just told things from new perspectives. I realised my view of the world was misinformed and began to change. I'm still changing now as change is gradual, but I only change when I am exposed to people's opinions (aka free speech). Do you really not realize that your entire argument completely excludes even thinking about people who aren't heterosexual white males? Have you never considered that people whose existence is threatened because of their sexual orientation or ethnicity maybe can not feel as comfortable as you are with just letting fascists say whatever they want wherever they want?
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Mar 1, 2017 11:43
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dwarf74 posted:They haven't even done anything yet, and it's Perez and Ellison working together. 'working together' like the party 'worked together' on the 'most progressive platform ever' loving lol. Purge perez, purge Pelosi, hell if Ellison helps these loving idiots purge him too.
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Mar 1, 2017 17:49
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So... I don't have access to facebook atm. Please tell me there are a ton of anti-VOICE rallies getting organized.
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Mar 1, 2017 18:59
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Ruzihm posted:So... I don't have access to facebook atm. Please tell me there are a ton of anti-VOICE rallies getting organized. Its like we're back to normal now that the president appeared to be back on his meds for a night.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:24
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cebrail posted:Do you really not realize that your entire argument completely excludes even thinking about people who aren't heterosexual white males? Have you never considered that people whose existence is threatened because of their sexual orientation or ethnicity maybe can not feel as comfortable as you are with just letting fascists say whatever they want wherever they want? I think the disconnect here is what "letting" means
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Mar 1, 2017 22:43
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Kekekela posted:Its like we're back to normal now that the president appeared to be back on his meds for a night. ~normalization~ Effective leftism: lace up your boots, take to the streets, and make your community a better place. Mobilize yourself and a crew/affinity group against the "march 4 trump" crybabies on 3/4. For example, the Proud Boys are coming to Berkeley (but they're so terrified of antifa they're just gonna stand outside a police station as bait). H.R.610, DeVos' education bill, not only introduces vouchers and turns education funding into a block grant program, but begins the rollback of the free and reduced school lunch program. This is a good time to familiarize yourself with the history of the BPP, especially their community programs like the Breakfast Program. In California? You should get working on the universal/single-payer healthcare bill. See http://www.healthycaliforniaact.org/ for more info; there are outreach trainings and film screenings this weekend and coming week so this is a good time to get on board. If you're in DSA, contact your steering committee and ask them to get looped into the campaign (if they're not already) via Jeremy G with the East Bay DSA. Oh and if you're gonna do a thing for 3/8 or 5/1, don't forget to make it intersectional.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:23
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Got an email from swingleft.org about a kickoff house party. I clicked on the link about 30 minutes later and it was already completely filled up. This is a Really Good Thing. I'm working on hosting my own, and you should too: https://swingleft.org/host also, 3/8 actions in NYC: https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/nyprotest/2017-02/msg00420.html
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Mar 1, 2017 23:40
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:community programs like the Breakfast Program This is such a good idea, and it'd be a disaster if the Right Wing snatches the idea out from under us.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:23
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Is that a joke? The conservative version is to serve children as breakfast.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:46
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Jack Gladney posted:Is that a joke? The conservative version is to serve children as breakfast. Breakfast Pogrom
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Mar 2, 2017 02:25
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:H.R.610, DeVos' education bill, not only introduces vouchers and turns education funding into a block grant program, but begins the rollback of the free and reduced school lunch program. This is a good time to familiarize yourself with the history of the BPP, especially their community programs like the Breakfast Program. Here there's a bill working its way through the state legislature to cut back on reduced lunch. The news reported it as denying 300,000 at-need kids reduced-price lunch, then immediately cut to the lead sponsor of the bill saying "I've studied the situation a lot and I feel this will make no noticeable impact" 
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Mar 2, 2017 04:29
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Bootstraps For Breakfastate all the Oreos posted:Here there's a bill working its way through the state legislature to cut back on reduced lunch. The news reported it as denying 300,000 at-need kids reduced-price lunch, then immediately cut to the lead sponsor of the bill saying "I've studied the situation a lot and I feel this will make no noticeable impact" Sucks. What you doin' about it?
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Mar 2, 2017 04:35
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Breakfast Pogrom  e: Just watched Tucker Carlson badger a guest about how parliament's anti-hate speech measure is Orwellian and anti-populist. God the guy is so over the top loving obnoxious, how did he grow from Bill Press's puppy dog into this? The idea that tolerance means letting intolerance flourish is just maddening to me. Kekekela fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 06:16
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Had a meeting earlier tonight with the executive board of my state Legislative District and mention the free breakfast for kids idea as something to let bounce around in their heads for a while in case breakfast programs find their way on the chopping block. They're thinking about trying to do a test run on a weekend or something as a community event sometime, just in case we need to go full bore in the future. I would expect that if free breakfast school programs were cut, we'd find oodles of volunteers in unprecedented numbers to fill that unmet need.
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Mar 2, 2017 07:51
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Had a meeting earlier tonight with the executive board of my state Legislative District and mention the free breakfast for kids idea as something to let bounce around in their heads for a while in case breakfast programs find their way on the chopping block. to which the response will be something something see the free market works people something something vomit. I mean this is good news considering the circumstances but we're dealing with vile people here. edit: https://twitter.com/dustin_temple10/status/836017105086656512 Ladies and gentlemen, the democratic party. double nine fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 12:33
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some interesting (if incomplete) thoughts from an NYU law professor on the state of party institutional controls, relevant both to current circumstances and current opportunities: Outsourcing Politics: The Hostile Takeovers of Our Hollowed out Political Parties the link is to the abstract, but the full paper is downloadable on the same page
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Mar 2, 2017 17:36
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double nine posted:Ladies and gentlemen, the democratic party. We agree, what are you doing about it?
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Mar 2, 2017 17:49
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:We agree, what are you doing about it? Post it on a comedy forum so it gets traction. double nine fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 17:54
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Mar 2, 2017 18:01
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Be careful not to dust off the guillotine too quickly. There's a reason that smiley is named "Thermidor," after all.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:37
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Goon Danton posted:Be careful not to dust off the guillotine too quickly. There's a reason that smiley is named "Thermidor," after all. Hey Napoleon was a HUGE improvement over the Bourbon dynasty.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:38
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That but unironically.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:48
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I meant more the whole "The revolution, like Saturn, devours its children" thing the guy in my avatar supposedly said. Pretty much everybody associated with the "guillotine everyone" phase of the Revolution got fed to it eventually (the most notable exception in my mind being the arch-technocrat Carnot himself).
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Mar 2, 2017 18:58
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