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Crazycryodude posted:By the time anything can conceivably get to me I'm either standing triumphantly atop a mountain of British corpses built on miraculous dice rolls, or buried under a slightly smaller mountain that I made sure to take down with me. My personal course of action would be to call in an artillery brigade and dig in around Croissant. The timer's gonna start in 2 turns when the runner gets to HQ, and when it runs out we almost definitely won't have Q anymore but we can totally manage a hold on Croissant for the minor objective at least. This battle is too short for there to be a fatigue mechanic. vvv Doing anything other than scratching your arse and farting increases the likelihood of getting lost vvv Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 22:24
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Will travelling through the woods at night increase the possibility of getting lost?
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Feb 28, 2017 22:49
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steinrokkan posted:So this is what I have been talking about, now as a dumb picture: I think we are all in agreement that this is the best course of action, and this is the one we are going to follow. Here's hoping the storm comes at us, rather than the heroic defenders of Q. What do you guys think our reinforcements should be?
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Feb 28, 2017 22:55
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Bde with arty is the only one that would be of any use. Coming in from as close to StC as possible.
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Feb 28, 2017 23:01
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Looks like a reinforcement brigade has turned up near the french gun line. Surely with forces like that, they'll want to advance in the cover of darkness?
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Feb 28, 2017 23:20
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So, nobody wants to play as our new reinforcements?
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Mar 1, 2017 11:53
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Right, get the orders in. You've seen the plan, the new brigade will be the one with artillery in it, it will come in from the north, near Veine. If anyone wants to command it, speak up right now! It will be attached to the 19th Division.
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Mar 1, 2017 15:15
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19th Division orders in descending priority New Brigade - Commander to Be Determined: If possible, let the brigade spawn with orders to march to the north of St. C. - from there form up a defensive perimeter at the eastern side. Focus on getting some good firing opportunities at the southern plains, between the town and Clemenceau. The north - south axis of your defenses is currently of secondary importance, because that approach is also screened by other brigades, but you should get somebody to prepare fortifications there anyway. I do not think the current trenches would serve as a good line of defense against a southern push. It would be ideal to integrate Jaguars guns into your formation, if it is going to remain at the eastern side. The Sandman: Continue guarding Baguette and laying in ambush. If you think there would be any use in discretely reshuffling some of your companies within the Baguette + Baguette Woods area, do so, but do not jeopardize your concealment in the process. Saros: You will remain our northern picket. I'm ambivalent as to whether you should remain at your current position, or withdraw to the trenches closer to the town, so I will leave it up to you.
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Mar 1, 2017 15:39
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So, critical question: with the reinforcement brigade, what margin do we have left before we automatically lose from casualties? Because remember, the instant we lose Quatrepouts our victory timer goes away. After that, it's just a question of how long it takes the French to end the battle by killing us all. So no matter what, I think this is the last time we're going to be issuing orders in this battle; once our troops reach their final positions, they sit in place until they die or break. We may as well just run a longer turn and get it over with. EDIT: Anyway, for something that might actually be useful to consider for future games, was there a single thing we did right? What could we have done differently that wouldn't just end with us getting hosed in a different way, and that we wouldn't have needed hindsight to know to do? In my case, I needed to better coordinate with Jaguars during the initial approach, and to just change standing orders to "rifle fire" instead of "bayonet charge", the latter of which I didn't do under the assumption that my specific orders not to charge out from under MG and artillery cover during the advance would apply, and that using rifle fire as my standing order would end up with my troops deciding to just stand 8" away from the enemy in an open field and make themselves a target for artillery while they tried to shoot things. My failure to coordinate with Jaguars is why instead of marching through St. Croissants and taking up positions to its south, my troops just stopped west of Baguette and went over to their standing order of "if you see any Frenchmen, charge them, no matter how outnumbered you are". Well, either that, or they were still trying to reach their stop line south of St. Croissants, only now in a really dumb way because I didn't think to make another contingency for that situation. Our biggest mistakes as a side, I think, were 1) we assumed the French would be roughly equal in numbers to us, when in fact they outnumbered us from the start, and 2) we told all of our infantry to keep marching no matter how many Frenchmen appeared because we didn't come up with any way that we could ignore a small French force while responding appropriately to a large one. I also think we underestimated how much space a brigade could actually cover when it spread out to form a defensive line; IIRC, a major part of why we set up our plans the way we did was the assumption that the 19th couldn't actually cover the entirety of the space between croissants and the eastern map edge. So let's call that mistake number three. If we'd realized that we could in fact cover that much frontage, we'd probably have sent at least one brigade to try to secure the hillside directly south of Baguende, which would have prevented the catastrophe of the opening turns. Our assumption that the enemy was probably entering from the southwest was not a mistake, at least not in the sense that it cost us the battle, because we were right that we could reach croissants first if the french came in from the southeast, and we had made a reasonable decision to prioritize taking our objective over attacking the enemy troops. Parceling out our artillery between our brigades, rather than concentrating everything into one brigade the way the French seem to have done, wasn't a mistake, because in the absence of our other fuckups it would have allowed us to hold a line without worrying that a single die roll gone bad would cost us an entire division's artillery. It only went badly wrong because we threw away an entire division for negligible effect on the French. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 17:13
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Our victory timer doesn't go away if we lose Q. Moltke will be rather miffed when he shows up and finds it's no longer ours, but he still shows up. As long as we can keep a hold of Croissant, we'll still win because at least we got the minor objective.
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Mar 1, 2017 17:57
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Crazycryodude posted:Our victory timer doesn't go away if we lose Q. Moltke will be rather miffed when he shows up and finds it's no longer ours, but he still shows up. As long as we can keep a hold of Croissant, we'll still win because at least we got the minor objective. Okay, and our loss threshold? Once your brigade is wiped out, can we avoid hitting it before Moltke shows up and berates us for our failures? Assuming of course that you're correct, and that things haven't changed due to the circumstances being "we're about to be driven from the field completely" instead of "still a see-saw battle over Quatrepouts that we could theoretically win with just a few more men". Because I'm pretty sure the latter is what the situation of the victory timer running out with us driven from Quatrepouts after starting said timer was expected to cover, not the former.
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Mar 1, 2017 18:05
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Right now what we wanna do is make taking the objectives from us as difficult and costly as possible to salvage some victory points or karma or whatever. My most annoying mistake in setup was not parcelling out the heavy arty equally. As-is it was at the mercy of 78bde ending up in a useful place vs. enemy concentrations - as we have seen this cannot be taken for granted - and at the mercy of 78bde's infantry continuing to exist - also cannot be taken for granted. I've written about our problems before but I don't think we did that much wrong. We made two mistakes, too ambitious and badly structured initial advance and, uh, too ambitious and badly structured second advance. Short advance in battle order, take up defensive stance, appraise the situation, slowly evolve the position a bde or two at at time would have been smarter. Getting local superiority and hitting an opportune enemy formation, or hunkering down and letting them attack our emplaced formations would also have been more useful throughout than drawing long arrows halfway across the map, closing our eyes, and yelling banzaiii.  Orders, 43D77bde is to take up defensive positions to the West of Saint Croissant. 76bde is to take up defensive positions in Quatreprouts. 79bde is to defend St Croissant. 78bde is to reinforce 7Jäg's position at the Gates of Valhalla. aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 18:23
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aphid_licker posted:I've written about our problems before but I don't think we did that much wrong. We made two mistakes, too ambitious and badly structured initial advance and, uh, too ambitious and badly structured second advance. Short advance in battle order, take up defensive stance, appraise the situation, slowly evolve the position a bde or two at at time would have been smarter. Getting local superiority and hitting an opportune enemy formation, or hunkering down and letting them attack our emplaced formations would also have been more useful throughout than drawing long arrows halfway across the map, closing our eyes, and yelling banzaiii. I don't think either of these is true, but the time for post mortems is not here yet in any event.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:46
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Yeah lets save the post-mortems for when it's actually over. I'm sure the observer thread has been relentlessly picking apart both us and the French this entire time, anyways. 76bde Orders Make them pay for it. "Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood."
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Mar 1, 2017 20:08
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79th Bro-gade Orders Cavalry: Immediately withdraw to the road intersection near Gooneville woods in preparation for night operations. Engineers: Collect Barbed wire from Ferme Confit, return to my artillery positions when done.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:43
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4th Bde Hold position and continue to entrench until the infantry have completed their trenches then reshuffle into the following formation (remaining defensive if at all possible, I think its allowed to move a few units/turn?), the key bit being the MGis in base contact and can fire through any of the infantry.  Formation should be positioned in the red zone of dug out trenches if at all possible, if its necessary to dig out a bit more to keep them all on top of the ridge do so. 
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Mar 1, 2017 20:45
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah lets save the post-mortems for when it's actually over. I'm sure the observer thread has been relentlessly picking apart both us and the French this entire time, anyways. You know you're in for a bad time when your orders are just a quotation. Soldiers in the 76th willing all their kit to their friends rn.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:02
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Just putting things in perspective here: if I've done the math right, we can only lose 18 more chits before we hit our current loss threshold and 22 before we hit our final post-reinforcement loss threshold. Cryo's brigade will account for twelve of those chits by itself when it's destroyed or routed off the field. Alternatively, mine will account for twelve chits when it's destroyed. If they kill both of our brigades, that's game. Given that, I'm pulling back from Baguette at nightfall. Maybe that'll buy us enough time. Otherwise, they can push two or three brigades at me while doing whatever else they want, and we're done. Also, if Jaguars gets routed out of Croissants, we should surrender, because retaking it will push us over our loss threshold even if we by some miracle succeed.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:27
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The Sandman posted:Just putting things in perspective here: if I've done the math right, we can only lose 18 more chits before we hit our current loss threshold and 22 before we hit our final post-reinforcement loss threshold. Cryo's brigade will account for twelve of those chits by itself when it's destroyed or routed off the field. Alternatively, mine will account for twelve chits when it's destroyed. If they kill both of our brigades, that's game. Number of times The Sandman has called for surrender so far this game: 3 at least by last count, unless we count specific lines, in which case it will probably go into double digits Number of times the rest of the team combined has done so: 0 EDIT: I realise this is passive-aggressive as gently caress and I apologise, but please stop calling for us to throw in the towel, because we are not going to do that. Tevery Best fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 23:21
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Okay. Still, though, if we actually want to drag this out we have to keep that loss threshold in mind, because it means we have to avoid fighting for anything that's not absolutely essential. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what we want to do, because we'll drop below the threshold and lose by default. EDIT: Speaking of which, my orders: 5th Brigade The turn before nightfall, open fire on any Entente units spotted and in range of your current positions. At nightfall, leave Baguette to the northwest and the Bois de Baguette to the north, to take up the position and formation shown in the following picture. Once there, open fire on anything Entente that comes into range. Do not break off from this position; you'll either defend it successfully or you'll die where you stand. 
The Sandman fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 01:07
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77th Orders Center wheel and dress left against the brigade in St. Croissant. Take up a defensive position along the road. As soon as the enemy comes into range of your big guns, start hammering them, then machine-gun them.  "I lust only for cav death." --Hegel, right now edit: do i have time to shuffle my machine guns around? i do not like their current placement. if i have time, i want a machine gun on the outer rear corner of my formation, here  edit 2: i feel better about this than all of you, for some reason. After his crisis of german emotions, Oberst Hegel has been stalwart all day. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 01:09
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Does targeting order makes us shoot at HQ units last no matter what, even if they're a crazy cavalry brigadier charging me after getting hyped on personally spiking half our guns? I get that normally it makes sense to kill everything else first but I think an exception can be made for that wannabe Savior of the Republic up on Dejeuner.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 01:18
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 By my accounting, we only need a commander and orders for the reinforcement artillery brigade. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1INxQ8FIG2UdpFbkeeluhARW_6p7jluTnTxDaG4httAc/edit?usp=sharing
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Mar 2, 2017 01:29
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why is the kaiser giving me bedroom eyes in that pic
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Mar 2, 2017 01:40
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I will accept emergency orders to get the brigade onto the field and moving where you want it to go.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:43
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Here's our updated list of free commanders: We have: Supernumeraries: Koolkevz666, Taishi Chi Ghetto Prince Possibly Glynnenstein and suddenly free brigadiers: Covski Nastytoes Ikasuhito [e:] Crazycryodude posted:Does targeting order makes us shoot at HQ units last no matter what, even if they're a crazy cavalry brigadier charging me after getting hyped on personally spiking half our guns? I get that normally it makes sense to kill everything else first but I think an exception can be made for that wannabe Savior of the Republic up on Dejeuner. HQs are always the lowest priority, so if there are any combat units around, they will be targeted instead. Targeting priority does not affect the order in which units fire, so it's really down to luck that brigadier did so much damage, although the targeting system helped ensure it was the last man standing and not some random Cav company. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 01:52
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3rd Reinforcements Orders 3rd Reinforcements will enter in marching order and attempt to road march for the first two turns. Then they will change to combat formation and then head south toward their positions:  If an enemy is seen within 18", go to combat order. Final positions:  Those two northern field guns to be as close to General von Sandemann's troops as they can while still being able to fire past. Standing orders: quote:Standing Orders Further edit: I know Tevery first asked for the reinforcements to come through Veine. Of my own initiative I've sent them through Bouclecourt in order to get in place faster. If Tevery still wants them through Veine, he should just post that and everyone consider the Bouclecourt route countermanded. If entering at Veine, enter in combat formation and beeline to the planned positions. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 08:04
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I feat that enemy won't be seen ahead of time on account of dusk / nightfall. Please let them change stance manually maybe somewhere between those two farm estates?
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Mar 2, 2017 08:15
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By the time it's dark they'll be well behind the lines anyway, and they'll have to change out of marching order in that place anyway so that they can leave the road. edit: clarified orders anyway to limit the march formation to the first two turns. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 08:29
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The Sandman posted:Okay. Still, though, if we actually want to drag this out we have to keep that loss threshold in mind, because it means we have to avoid fighting for anything that's not absolutely essential. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what we want to do, because we'll drop below the threshold and lose by default. Those game ending casualties are on the level of frictional losses one could expect from routine operations. It's not up to us to ensure we won't sustain them because that is not in our hands. It's up to us to give the game our best shot, and if things go bad, end with dignity instead of with a tantrum.
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Mar 2, 2017 09:27
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HEY GAIL posted:
So do I actually, If I was playing alone I would have moved to the foot of Dejuner and seen how many units the MGs could pick off while the french have no artillery support.
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Mar 2, 2017 10:07
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We are definitely not out of this game just yet. Don't panic.
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Mar 2, 2017 10:45
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The adjudication begins...
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Mar 2, 2017 13:01
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Ok, NOW we panic.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:21
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Thinking ahead, if we make it into our little shame fortress what do we do about French arty? Theoretically they could plink away at our front row infantry from standoff range until we cross our loss threshold. Can we intermix arty and infantry in the front row or something?
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Mar 2, 2017 15:48
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aphid_licker posted:Thinking ahead, if we make it into our little shame fortress what do we do about French arty? Theoretically they could plink away at our front row infantry from standoff range until we cross our loss threshold. Can we intermix arty and infantry in the front row or something? Yes, that would be helpful, I think. Think of artillery in this period as a weapon meant to assist the infantry directly, not from the rear.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:56
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, that would be helpful, I think. Think of artillery in this period as a weapon meant to assist the infantry directly, not from the rear. Sounds good. That plus trenches should make us a toughish nut to crack. Since we don't have the strength to credibly threaten a sortie I was worrying about them just driving up their naked guns to just within range of the line and then bumping them ahead with that 75mm rule as our front lines ablate away.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:22
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Turn 26: 1930 French initiative The 79th Brigade successfully changes its orders, but the cavalry is operating too far from Brigade HQ to receive the order change this turn. The one remaining company charges instead; it and its machine guns do not get far.  The 77th slots into place west of Saint Croissant as the runner sees the finishing post ahead of him.  The 5th spots an engineer working to fill the gap in the Clemenceau trenches, and decides not to open fire this turn for fear of provoking mass retaliation.  The 76th concentrates in Quatreprouts and prepares to hold on.  The 45th Brigade also arrives from the north as reinforcements, using the standard Marching Order graphic until it shakes out.  Turn 27: 2000 French initiative With half an hour to go until darkness, the runner makes it home to Saint Croissant, and you immediately telephone General Kuno!  He sounds very relieved to hear the news. "Excellent news!, he says. "You've done well. I shall signal back to GHQ. Stay on the line." The line goes dead for a few minutes, and then he picks up again. "You will be relieved at 0800 tomorrow morning. My earlier order to preserve your forces is no longer in effect. Hold on at all costs!" The battle will end at 0800 tomorrow, on Turn 43. It will no longer automatically end if you take more than 3/4 casualties. The 76th is blissfully aware of all this; just before night falls, the BEF marches down the slope of Dejeuner Ridge, pointing directly at them.  The light is getting worse by the minute, but you still score several good hits, and they're too far away to return fire.  This is the last full picture of the battlefield that you will have until tomorrow morning.  Turn 28: 2030 German initiative The battle ends in 23 turns The 5th Brigade pulls back from Baguette in good order. Note that it has not lost a company, just walked over somebody else's grave.  The 45th adopts Battle Order, using the road as a guide to position itself.  The 77th has managed to successfully incorporate the fleeing remnants of the 78th Brigade into its command.  And the BEF comes charging into the outskirts of Quatreprouts!  The 78th's one remaining 15cm howitzer and your trench mortar give them what for.  Unfortunately, the enemy is now close enough to you for night-time spotting, and those fearsome 155cm howitzers roar into life. When they've had their say, and the BEF's machine gun, and their non-charging rifle company, the situation has deteriorated significantly.  The guns are about 14 inches to the east of Quatreprouts.  You see these companies within 4" at the end of the turn, and many more waiting just behind them, within 8" and having opened fire. On the plus side, they'll now have to charge into Quatreprouts itself to get into contact with your remaining companies. You make a morale check and pass. Turn 29: 2100 German initiative The battle ends in 22 turns The 5th Brigade is having a little bother trying to find the trenches that have been dug for them.  The 45th advances cautiously forward.  Crazycryodude does some quick mental arithmetic in Quatreprouts as the BEF charges again, in greater force this time.  If all his men fire as accurately as possible, he thinks, maybe we can just about hold them off!  Then that happens. The image was taken when the cavalry was only halfway through its movement for clarity's sake; it then closes to contact and the town is a hopeless jumble of chits.  You take another chunk out of the enemy as they close, but then the town is a heaving mass of French and British soldiers. Bayonets and sabres are everywhere.  Four companies of the 76th flee for their lives, retreating suppressed, but passing their final morale check. They're pretty sure that they killed at least one infantry and two cavalry companies, and Crazycryodude is pretty sure that he's just been charged personally by the enemy Corps Commander. (Look carefully at their BHQ chit.) They are about 8" due west of Quatreprouts. It is now night. The next soft deadline is TOMORROW, Friday 3rd March, at 5pm. The next update will be 8 turns long.
Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 18:30
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The allies and their getting suppressed instead of dying are getting touch annoying.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:35
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Gotta admit that while obviously 76 was doomed isolated like that I had hoped they'd tie down the enemy for a bit longer. At least with the loss cap removed we can have a proper last stand now. Orders, 43D 77bde Dig in at your current position. Angle the current westernmost six units north to get some rudimentary flank security going. Intersperse artillery with the infantry in the front line, concentrated south. Dig until an angry dwarf yells at you for having broken through the ceiling of his crapper. 79bde Hold position, dig. 76bde, 78bde, 7Jäg I am very, very sorry. aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 18:57
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