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Soonmot posted:Vampire question. Vigor and Resilience add directly to strength and stamina as a passive effect, but Celerity doesn't add to dex. How unbalanced would it be to allow Celerity to just straight up increase dex as a passive, is it not being able to a balance against celerity having more active effects to choose from? Celerity adds a passive bonus to defense, which is pretty massive. Are you thinking about replacing that aspect with the Dex add, or giving the Dex in addition?
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Mar 1, 2017 20:54
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In addition to. I figure that if vigor gives a passive bonus to damage as well as an active one, and Resilience passively adds health while actively negates damage, the speed bonus and dex task bonus from celerity won't be as big a deal. It'll still only add to defense once, since defense is lowest of Dex or Wits. I'm wondering if anyone has done this and if it hosed things up, basically.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:58
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Defense is much more valuable than either damage or health. Both damage and health only matter if you get hit.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:01
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They need a high wits, low dex, high celerity rating for it to really matter, though. If they already have a three or four dex and only 2 wits, defense is using wits no matter what and there's no change. If they have high wits and low dex, they're probably not a combat monster (which this character isn't, but the game will be a bit combat heavy) so the change is beneficial. I totally see your concern though, and typing out these rationals has really helped me. The other concern could be firearms rolls, but active celerity doesn't have an option to add dice to those rolls like vigor does for melee attacks and I don't plan on adding one.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:09
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Mulva posted:There is never going to be a Bloodlines 2, which is good, because it wasn't a good game. Even beyond the bugs it just doesn't have a third act and almost literally does not have an ending. Things just sort of stop, and credits. Glad to see this ironclad confirmation that Bloodline is a good game with a strong ending.
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Mar 1, 2017 21:23
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cptn_dr posted:(I'm a couple of posts into reading Dave B's DC AP, and will read The Man Comes Around once I'm done with that, too) Don't skip Soul Cages - it's where some bits of Mage 2e were playtested and since it's not following the Reign of the Exarchs published campaign it's more free to do its own wild and wacky thing. The Man Comes Around (unless things have changed since last I checked) is still DaveB's ongoing campaign, but he hasn't updated the AP thread in a long while.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:19
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bewilderment posted:Don't skip Soul Cages - it's where some bits of Mage 2e were playtested and since it's not following the Reign of the Exarchs published campaign it's more free to do its own wild and wacky thing. The Man Comes Around (unless things have changed since last I checked) is still DaveB's ongoing campaign, but he hasn't updated the AP thread in a long while. So, the chronology actually goes something like Broken Diamond - I am a fan with too much time on my hands Soul Cage - I am a writer. Soul Cage's last few sessions were when Malcolm and I were working out Imperial Mysteries The Man Comes Around - I am Mage Developer, and the game contains the playtests for both the God-Machine Chronicles and Awakening 2e. Which is also why I no longer have time to do the thread. TMCA is still my ongoing chronicle, and it's still my playtesting testbed.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:26
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Soonmot posted:Vampire question. Vigor and Resilience add directly to strength and stamina as a passive effect, but Celerity doesn't add to dex. How unbalanced would it be to allow Celerity to just straight up increase dex as a passive, is it not being able to a balance against celerity having more active effects to choose from? 1E VtM did this, and no other edition.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:37
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Pope Guilty posted:1E VtM did this, and no other edition. yeah it sounds like the kind of logic that gave us the Boon Cycle from Magic
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Mar 1, 2017 23:39
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Cause 3 life is totally equivalent to 3 cards.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:44
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Mors Rattus posted:Frankly, I hope there isn't a Bloodlines 2. Press e to press against face like cigarette.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:54
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Pope Guilty posted:1E VtM did this, and no other edition. V20 has celerity give bonus dice to dex passively that can be transformed into extra actions by spending blood.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:04
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Drivers jacked off 3/8 Ok, now I'm kind of glad we're not getting Bloodlines 2.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:10
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cptn_dr posted:I'm gearing up to run a Mage game, but my biggest concern is that even if I make an interesting setting filled with potential Mysteries and a Consilium that's dramatic and politicky, I still won't be able to run a game that's any fun. Does anyone have any suggestions for any Actual Plays or similar I can read for inspiration/to help figure out what I can do to make my Mage game tick along? (I'm a couple of posts into reading Dave B's DC AP, and will read The Man Comes Around once I'm done with that, too) No plan survives first contact with players. Something that I've found works well to add drama to things is to offer players A-Beats for having their characters do things that would potentially give their Mage a deeper insight into a topic - particularly their Obsessions - and giving more than one if it'd let them gain greater insight faster. For example, offer a player an A-Beat if they steal a certain old antique from a collector or let a vampire bite them. Anything that might advance their understanding of the Mysteries that the character might consider but the player might not. The important part of this is to offer them; to say it when the option to do so becomes available. The Mage character is visiting the museum and sees a treasure on display. Describe it and finish with "I'll give you an A-Beat if you steal it". It can be hard to be a dick to people, even imaginary people in games, for some players, but nerds also love to make arbitrary numbers bigger, so it really helps them remember that their character is an obsessive wizard who craves deeper secrets of the cosmos.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:28
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Pope Guilty posted:1E VtM did this, and no other edition. "V:tR 2nd posted:Add the vampire’s dots in Resilience to his Two of the three physical disciplines add dice to their attribute, unless I'm misinterpreting your post. V:tM was auto successes, not dice. But I don't remember V:tM first edition all that well, so I could totally be wrong. I'm letting the player do it, if it gets too crazy we'll not do it again. Vigor question: The active bonus dice are called a weapon bonus, would this change damage to lethal for a turn? I'm ambivalent on that, Gangrel still get to be lethal ones with their claws (should they take them) lasting a scene, but on the other hand, any Daeva or Nosferatu can be packing lethal punches right out of the box, even if only on bp per turn basis. Running this game has really opened my eyes on how little I actually read through the CoD version of V:tR.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:50
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Soonmot posted:Vigor question: The active bonus dice are called a weapon bonus, would this change damage to lethal for a turn? I'm ambivalent on that, Gangrel still get to be lethal ones with their claws (should they take them) lasting a scene, but on the other hand, any Daeva or Nosferatu can be packing lethal punches right out of the box, even if only on bp per turn basis. I read it as yes, lethal damage. The advantage of Protean is in undead combat: Unnatural Aspect is able to rip undead bodies up in a way punching won't, no matter how punchy it gets. (Kindred Dueling can benefit from Vigor, but it's going to rip your machete up pretty fast.)
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Mar 2, 2017 01:02
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Soonmot posted:Two of the three physical disciplines add dice to their attribute, unless I'm misinterpreting your post. V:tM was auto successes, not dice. But I don't remember V:tM first edition all that well, so I could totally be wrong. I'm letting the player do it, if it gets too crazy we'll not do it again. I meant about Celerity. (I'll admit I didn't read V20.) The reason it's not a great idea is because Dex is the god stat and a Dex boost like that is hilariously overpowered.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:16
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Soonmot posted:Two of the three physical disciplines add dice to their attribute, unless I'm misinterpreting your post. V:tM was auto successes, not dice. But I don't remember V:tM first edition all that well, so I could totally be wrong. My memory of V:tM second is that Potence added actual damage (so successes) and Fortitude only added extra soak dice (that could soak any damage type) not auto successes. Will check later.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:22
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Pope Guilty posted:I meant about Celerity. (I'll admit I didn't read V20.) The reason it's not a great idea is because Dex is the god stat and a Dex boost like that is hilariously overpowered. Okay, I see what your saying now. Is dexterity that OP though? It adds to initiative and speed always, things I feel celerity should do by default with the and now that I type that out I see that I'm actually negating having to activate the discipline at all once it hits a high enough level, as the character will always go first and can focus on pumping wits since even 2 dex/2 celerity will make it so wits is used in defense. Thanks for the posts, I think I'll just have it add to base speed as a passive and dexterity based rolls, but not derived stats (aside from the by the book defense bump and my house ruled speed bump) EDIT: The vigor question: Thank you! I forgot that vamps would still just take bashing from an attack, unlike the protean claws.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:29
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ulmont posted:My memory of V:tM second is that Potence added actual damage (so successes) and Fortitude only added extra soak dice (that could soak any damage type) not auto successes. Will check later. Potence gives one success on Strength tests per dot, while Fort dots are added to soak. Makes offense inherently stronger than defense.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:42
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Soonmot posted:Okay, I see what your saying now. Is dexterity that OP though? It adds to initiative and speed always, things I feel celerity should do by default with the Dexterity is hit, dodge, initiative, and speed. and extra hit dice spill over into your damage roll. Dexterity applies to everything in combat. That's why most experienced werewolf players used Hispo instead of Crinos.
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Mar 2, 2017 02:29
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Drivers jacked off 3/8 You stand before an rear end on a TABLE, in a SMEAR. > eat rear end
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Mar 2, 2017 03:08
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RandallODim posted:You stand before an rear end on a TABLE, in a SMEAR. You cannot eat ye rear end
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Mar 2, 2017 03:16
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Kurieg posted:Dexterity is hit, dodge, initiative, and speed. and extra hit dice spill over into your damage roll. Dexterity applies to everything in combat. That's why most experienced werewolf players used Hispo instead of Crinos. It looks like the discussion with Celerity and Dexterity is getting confused bouncing back and forth between the WoDs, though. I agree that Celerity's probably good enough as it is in Requiem, but Dexterity isn't the "god stat" in nWoD it was in oWoD. Swinging a punch, a claw, or a big fuckoff club rolls Strength for the attack in Requiem, not Dexterity.
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Mar 2, 2017 04:18
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:making GBS threads dick eggs I've missed a tremendous portion of this thread, but this has now become part of my lexicon. My vulgar argot, if you will.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:34
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I Am Just a Box posted:It looks like the discussion with Celerity and Dexterity is getting confused bouncing back and forth between the WoDs, though. I agree that Celerity's probably good enough as it is in Requiem, but Dexterity isn't the "god stat" in nWoD it was in oWoD. Swinging a punch, a claw, or a big fuckoff club rolls Strength for the attack in Requiem, not Dexterity. Yeah, we're playing Requiem and this whole thing came about because I noticed that Vigor just straight up adds itself as extra dots of strength as a passive and you can then spend a blood to add it again!
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Mar 2, 2017 07:06
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Thanks for all the advice guys, I appreciate it. Now I've got a city with 20 Cabals conceptualised, and am reading all the Weird Australia books I can get my hands on. Once I get PC concepts from my players, I think I'll be in a good position to get a decent long-term chronicle rolling.
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Mar 2, 2017 08:45
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Ferrinus posted:Glad to see this ironclad confirmation that Bloodline is a good game with a strong ending. Is defending the ending of Bloodlines really the hill you want to die on?
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Mar 2, 2017 09:13
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Soonmot posted:Vigor question: The active bonus dice are called a weapon bonus, would this change damage to lethal for a turn? I'm ambivalent on that, Gangrel still get to be lethal ones with their claws (should they take them) lasting a scene, but on the other hand, any Daeva or Nosferatu can be packing lethal punches right out of the box, even if only on bp per turn basis. Yes. Weapons and abilities that give weapon bonuses always deal lethal damage.
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Mar 2, 2017 12:22
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...except when dealing with vampires, who only take bashing damage from most sources.
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Mar 2, 2017 13:17
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Mulva posted:There is never going to be a Bloodlines 2, which is good, because it wasn't a good game. Even beyond the bugs it just doesn't have a third act and almost literally does not have an ending. Things just sort of stop, and credits. To be fair, this isn't really a bad thing. In VTR at least the idea that the apocalyptic artifact is secretly a honey trap and political ploy to get the antagonist assholish tyrant prince out of power by preying on his own debased and monstrous nature is pretty loving brilliant as far as story lines go and is definitely in line with both games and their themes. Though the plot for it feels more VTR than VTM given the lack of a big over the top finish. Most other licensed games like that would have gone with the ending being bombastic and having you fight an all new and video game only antediluvian or something similar to how the Blood Ravens only exist in the Dawn of War series to keep it from shaking up the metaplot. Archonex fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 14:42
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Yeah, the ending to Bloodlines is great. The level and encounter design in the back third of the game, not so much, but you have the first two thirds of the game to prove they're capable of better.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:45
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Archonex posted:In VTR at least the idea that the apocalyptic artifact is secretly a honey trap and political ploy to get the antagonist assholish tyrant prince out of power by preying on his own debased and monstrous nature is pretty loving brilliant as far as story lines go and is definitely in line with both games and their themes. Though the plot for it feels more VTR than VTM given the lack of a big over the top finish. Bloodlines was released in 2003, which is at the very tail end of Masquerade Revised, when the writers realized what "worked" as a setting that was both verisimilitudinous and playable, which were things that would carry over into Requiem and form its core. Additionally, to satisfy the needs of a computer game, it does away with a lot of the gently caress-you elements of Masquerade, so the Fledgling can do stuff like kill higher-Generation vampires in one-on-one fights. This helps a lot for the Requiem-like tone where Elders aren't ridiculously powerful and in control of everything.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:56
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Mushika posted:I've missed a tremendous portion of this thread, but this has now become part of my lexicon. My vulgar argot, if you will. Vulgar dick roe more like
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Mar 2, 2017 19:24
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Could use a bit of advice. Short version of this question: what supernatural creatures stay looking creepy after death? Vampires dissolve into ash, werewolves revert to human form, mages are just people on the inside (for the most part) so if someone wanted to collect post-mortem proof of the supernatural, what would their best bet be?
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Mar 2, 2017 20:42
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Prometheans. If for no other reason, then simply because it creates one more incentive for people to hunt and hurt them, and that automatically means it's true because the universe loving hates Prometheans. 
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Mar 2, 2017 20:44
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One of my players asked me if playing a Frankenstein's monster type character is allowed for our Hunter game. I told him about Promethean. He was shocked an entire game revolves around that idea. I would love to run Promethean! ack. I'll check it out. So far I've got the idea the local evil mega-corp had several experimental skinchangers escape. A local hunter group killed all but one, which has now gone on a murder binge to kill as many of the local hunter populace as possible. One of my players is trying to find undeniable proof of the supernatural to show he's not crazy to his divorce attorneys. Thus my question.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:49
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Changelings are also a good bet. Vampires, actually, aren't automatically ashed on death unless they're burned by fire or sunlight, IIRC, but even if they are it's easy to mistake torpor for death. A demon killed in its demonic form will likely remain as a sort of abstract metal-art corpse, but I'm not certain on that. Your PC there might well want to recruit the aid of NETWORK ZERO Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 20:54
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crime fighting hog posted:One of my players is trying to find undeniable proof of the supernatural to show he's not crazy to his divorce attorneys. Thus my question. "Hunter desperate to prove the reality of the supernatural vs. a totally innocent magical creature who nonetheless is dangerous / toxic to nearby humans AND would serve his selfish purposes perfectly" sounds like an awesome setup to me. And a Promethean could easily be an escaped project by an evil megacorp.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:54
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I like the way that player thinks, and hope this results in slinging something's head across an attorney's desk as if that makes you look less crazy.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:57
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