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WotC employees defending their company's choices meanwhile Ben Brode raps about the new expansion. I wonder which strategy is more sound.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:09
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Star Man posted:I have a feeling that sports card companies don't acknowledge the secondary market either, and that industry is way older than Wizards. I somehow doubt that sport cards had 40 dollar cards in them while they were in print even during their prime. I could see the similarities though.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:10
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Star Man posted:I have a feeling that sports card companies don't acknowledge the secondary market either, and that industry is way older than Wizards. Sports cards are a good example of what happens when the value of your product is completely dependent on people wanting your product relative to the scarce supply of it.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:12
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While we're on the topic of buying boosters being a form of gambling, what are the odds of a Kaladesh masterpiece showing up in a pack? 1/1000?
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Mar 1, 2017 22:12
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Ersatz posted:While we're on the topic of buying boosters being a form of gambling, what are the odds of a Kaladesh masterpiece showing up in a pack? 1/1000? 1/144, one out of four boxes, one per case.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:14
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Ersatz posted:While we're on the topic of buying boosters being a form of gambling, what are the odds of a Kaladesh masterpiece showing up in a pack? 1/1000? Kaladesh? I'd say it's 50/50 on a card from Amonkhet making its way in.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:14
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Maro just spoiled Gifts on Twitter. https://twitter.com/maro254/status/837048913882296320
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Mar 1, 2017 22:16
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ThePeavstenator posted:Sports cards are a good example of what happens when the value of your product is completely dependent on people wanting your product relative to the scarce supply of it. I feel like sports cards are one of those comparisons that seems appropriate but actually isn't since sports cards have no intrinsic value whereas MTG cards have play value.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:16
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Hellsau posted:1/144, one out of four boxes, one per case.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:17
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Ersatz posted:While we're on the topic of buying boosters being a form of gambling, what are the odds of a Kaladesh masterpiece showing up in a pack? 1/1000? I drafted for the first time in like 3 years a few weeks back, and that draft had two masterpieces pulled.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:18
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:This raises the question: What does Wizards think the purpose of the set is? "we hate money and we hate our customers as well" is a really odd stance to take when you have the option of just keeping your mouth shut
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Mar 1, 2017 22:20
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Marketing New Brain posted:Hahah the Disney Vault is beyond idiotic. I thought my sister was joking about it until I went in search of some Disney movies for my niece and nephew. It's a bad sign when my sister who would gladly pay full price for Blu Rays asks me to pirate a bunch of movies so her kids can watch Disney classics. Wait, are you saying if I wanted to go buy a copy of Aladdin or something I would not be able to do it?
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Mar 1, 2017 22:20
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Shadow225 posted:I drafted for the first time in like 3 years a few weeks back, and that draft had two masterpieces pulled.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:21
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mcmagic posted:Maro just spoiled Gifts on Twitter. I really hope we get Unburial Rites in this set. Gifts is still probably fun with the Grixis unearth deck though.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:22
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We had two expeditions at our Oath prerelease, if I'm remembering right. 12-14 people I think?
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Mar 1, 2017 22:22
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Salvor_Hardin posted:Wait, are you saying if I wanted to go buy a copy of Aladdin or something I would not be able to do it?  ). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Vault
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Mar 1, 2017 22:25
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jassi007 posted:packs are randomized. The line of reasoning goes if WOTC acknowledges the value of cards on a secondary market, then a pack is X chance to get something worth $Y. If they refuse to acknowledge secondary markets, then they can say that packs are MSRP $4.19 or whatever and thus each card whether its a masterpiece Sol Ring or a Basic land is 1/15 or the price of the pack. Again, I don't understand what that has to do with how many packs of MM17 they print.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:27
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Salvor_Hardin posted:Wait, are you saying if I wanted to go buy a copy of Aladdin or something I would not be able to do it? It depends on the product, for example I cant get original Mickey or Donald Duck cartoons anymore that my kids want to watch. They are just on super expensive out of print DVDs that are hundreds of dollars. Its insane, I want to give them money to enjoy a product.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:27
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welp got beat on that one!
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Mar 1, 2017 22:31
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Chairman Pow! posted:It depends on the product, for example I cant get original Mickey or Donald Duck cartoons anymore that my kids want to watch. They are just on super expensive out of print DVDs that are hundreds of dollars. Its insane, I want to give them money to enjoy a product. Disney is the WotC of film creation.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:34
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Angry Grimace posted:I feel like sports cards are one of those comparisons that seems appropriate but actually isn't since sports cards have no intrinsic value whereas MTG cards have play value. Sports cards are a more extreme comparison, but almost all MTG cards still have no intrinsic value if no one plays the game. MTG is way less fragile than sports cards and WotC would have to kill the game for that to happen, but the fact remains that the player base wanting to buy cards is what gives singles their value. The exception would be stuff with cultural significance. A Babe Ruth card in good condition is worth thousands of dollars because it's Babe Ruth and it's rare. Black Lotus will always hold some of its value because it's a known part of culture and super rare.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:35
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I get the reserved list. I think it's stupid, but I get it. What I don't get is the pseudo-reserved list. If they like the reserved list then extend it.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:52
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Rinkles posted:Again, I don't understand what that has to do with how many packs of MM17 they print. limited print runs exist to not deflate the secondary market value of cards. WOTC cares about the secondary market, and manages its business around it, but they don't outright acknowledge it for those reasons. It isn't limited print run = not lotto tickets unlimited print run = lotto tickets, it is limited print run = because of the value of cards on secondary market. Dumb verbal gymnastics to not acknowledge secondary market = some potential issue with gambling laws.
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Mar 1, 2017 22:56
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It's a huge mixed-message; they keep printing sets like this to try and send a message that they support non-rotating formats and people's collections won't "lose value", but if they don't back up those printings with actual tournaments, why are people buying this stuff? Are there really that many MTG players who build modern decks and never actually play modern? I mean I know there are, I'm one of them, but sure others are smarter than me.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:05
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:It's a huge mixed-message; they keep printing sets like this to try and send a message that they support non-rotating formats and people's collections won't "lose value", but if they don't back up those printings with actual tournaments, why are people buying this stuff? Are there really that many MTG players who build modern decks and never actually play modern? I can play modern at least once a week locally, and there are plenty of events each year to play modern. Why would I play standard as a local store FNM player and just keep pumping out money year after year, when I can build one deck and play it for a long time. I've been on Jund for 2 years. I've gotten a lot of value out of my goyfs bobs etc. which were all MM reprints. Standard is for grinders, pro's and people who don't know better imo.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:10
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Sorta suspecting someone in the marketing department looked at MM17, said "wait they're reprinting all of this?!" and immediately booked a bunch of Standard events to stop people from jumping ship.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:30
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Have the comparisons to homelands started yet?
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Mar 1, 2017 23:35
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:Are there really that many MTG players who build modern decks and never actually play modern? Meeeeeeeeeeeee  Or at least, I'm approaching the point of having too many Modern decks for the amount of time I can actually play. Though if I'm lucky, MM17 will get enough people near me interested in the format that my LGS takes its Modern FNM from every third week to every other week, or weekly if we're allowed to dream here.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:41
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Sickening posted:They dont' talk about the secondary market for several reasons and it all has to do with gambling laws. They don't want packs lumped in with lotto tickets although in real $$ terms they can be very close to them. From tournaments to modo, everything is too close to the line and its not something they want to even flirt with. Its been that way since day one of the product. Interestingly, that last part isn't quite true. Back when I still listened to Drive to Work, MaRo talked about how at one of the early Magic Invitationals, they did an ante-based round. The way you won was by getting more monetary value, as determined by Scrye magazine, and Kai Budde won by using Jeweled Bird. Here's an ancient article about it, apparently happening in 2001. quote:They cut for ante and Dan put up a $3.50 Serenity against Kai's $6.00 Misdirection. Not sure when they changed over to not talking about it. I thought maybe it was being bought by Hasbro, but that happened in 1999.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:41
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To break up MM17 chat, take a look at this sweet innovation: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=112020 On Twitter, Overturf said the Magma Sprays should be replaced with cards that are good for the Jund Shadow matchup. Anyone have ideas on what those cards are?
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Mar 1, 2017 23:41
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Sickening posted:Have the comparisons to homelands started yet? You mean Chronicles?
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Mar 1, 2017 23:44
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Archenteron posted:You mean Chronicles? Yep. Good catch.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:46
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Minority Deport posted:Interestingly, that last part isn't quite true. Back when I still listened to Drive to Work, MaRo talked about how at one of the early Magic Invitationals, they did an ante-based round. The way you won was by getting more monetary value, as determined by Scrye magazine, and Kai Budde won by using Jeweled Bird. I wonder if the gambling problems came up with Magic because of ante in 1993.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:51
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Star Man posted:I wonder if the gambling problems came up with Magic because of ante in 1993. I doubt it considering nobody ever actually played for ante.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:52
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So...are we already blocked off from a Cavern of Souls reprint? That is literally the only card I still need to finish Eldrazi.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:53
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I think the issue is more of "What is the difference between a poker tournament with a fixed price and a magic tournament for a fixed price when they both have prizes." States gambling laws are really out of wack.AlternateNu posted:So...are we already blocked off from a Cavern of Souls reprint? That is literally the only card I still need to finish Eldrazi. Not yet it seems.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:55
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Sickening posted:I think the issue is more of "What is the difference between a poker tournament with a fixed price and a magic tournament for a fixed price when they both have prizes." States gambling laws are really out of wack. Game of skill vs. game of luck. Both occupy a sort of grey area where both luck and skill play a role, which is why there's also challenges to gambling bans covering poker.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:58
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FordCQC posted:To break up MM17 chat, take a look at this sweet innovation: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=112020 More copies of Fatal Push?
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Mar 2, 2017 00:01
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TheKingofSprings posted:More copies of Fatal Push? That was my thinking. Fatal Push deals with Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyf no matter how big they get.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:19
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I've been using condemn against deaths shadow with some luck. It's a huge tempo loss for them and a sweeper if they have more than 1 out.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:22
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