Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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HisMajestyBOB: Oct 21, 2010; College Slice

I think I just hosed myself with Council God's wall jump:

Oops.
Time to find out if any of my un-ID'd scrolls are blink or teleport!

EDIT: Turns out I had a ring of flight this whole time!

# ? Mar 2, 2017 05:50

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:35

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-792-g09bcfd3 (webtiles) character file.

15176477 bananaken the Invulnerable (level 27, 249/249 HPs)
             Began as a Barachian Fire Elementalist on Mar 1, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Vehumet.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes!
             
             The game lasted 10:27:42 (105167 turns).

bananaken the Invulnerable (BaFE)                 Turns: 105167, Time: 10:27:42

Health: 249/249    AC: 48    Str: 26    XL:     27
Magic:  58/58      EV: 29    Int: 29    God:    Vehumet [******]
Gold:   11149      SH: 18    Dex: 11    Spells: 5/80 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   a - +3 Elemental Staff {rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5}
rCold    + + +     Gourm    .   G - +9 ice dragon scales
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   i - +2 shield of Resistance {rF+ rC+ MR+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   w - +0 Maxwell's etheric cage {RegenMP+ *Contam rElec MP+4}
rElec    +         Reflect  .   C - +2 cloak "Daleus" {rF+ Int+5 Dex-3 Slay+4}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   K - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
MR       +++++                  c - +2 pair of boots of Gravity {Str+4 Stlth+}
Stlth    +.........             W - macabre finger necklace {rN+}
Regen    0.6/turn               g - ring of the Yeti {Wiz *Drain rN+ SInv Stlth+}
MPRegen  0.4/turn               P - ring of Vodka {rF+ Str+4}
                                Q - ring "Kisil" {rN+ EV+5 Str+2}

Got a cool title with my frogman nukedude, ended up getting firestorm/tornado/necromutation and despite necromutation being stupidly risky now it still makes extended (and Tomb+Zigs) a lot more palatable. New mutation roulette is alright for extended but I still want to avoid playing the roulette as much as possible.

You can deal with torment without Necromutation but I've realized that the reason I like using it is the following: having it significantly cuts down on the time I need to rest since without torment it's the occasional smite/damnation (I guess this name is sticking) that typically touch a blaster caster. Malmutate getting nerfed into minor stat rot is another form of time saved since instead of looking at the badmut and deciding if I need to play the roulette I can just keep killing dudes. Less resting = less time wrapping up extended. This is where some people might come up and say "but death's door!". Yes it's a powerful skill and easily better once you know how to use it, but now you need to rest more. I literally would rather risk being confused while in lichform than inconvenience myself with more resting.

Oh yeah, and Necromutation takes a lot of XP to get up and running, but I got it online by killing a lotta dudes in a zig with firestorm and odds are good you don't have to deal with torment on every floor.

apple fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Mar 2, 2017

# ? Mar 2, 2017 06:08

Crimson Harvest: Jul 14, 2004; I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!

Well I never expected this:

# ? Mar 2, 2017 08:33

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

apple posted:

P - ring of Vodka {rF+ Str+4}

I need this ring.

apple posted:

This is where some people might come up and say "but death's door!". Yes it's a powerful skill and easily better once you know how to use it, but now you need to rest more. I literally would rather risk being confused while in lichform than inconvenience myself with more resting.

Well, I would say not only, "but death's door!", but also "but haste!" and "but sublimation of blood!", both of which are extremely powerful effects that you can't access in lichform.

I actually don't know how to use death's door at all because I'm too scared of it killing me. The only time I used it, I died anyway because I was stupid and got stat drained to negative str on a mummy floor (pre stat-rot reform). That was the luckiest character I've ever played: an HE something or other with a randart +10 longbow of speed and over 35 slay on armor and jewellery.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 11:06

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Heithinn Grasida posted:

Well, I would say not only, "but death's door!", but also "but haste!" and "but sublimation of blood!", both of which are extremely powerful effects that you can't access in lichform.

I actually don't know how to use death's door at all because I'm too scared of it killing me. The only time I used it, I died anyway because I was stupid and got stat drained to negative str on a mummy floor (pre stat-rot reform). That was the luckiest character I've ever played: an HE something or other with a randart +10 longbow of speed and over 35 slay on armor and jewellery.

What I ended up doing a few times for haste is to simply haste before a big fight by ending transformation, drinking and going back into lichform; it works specially well for extended since almost all bosses in hell and pandemonium have their own telegraphed "boss room". Sublimation of blood you can work around with high evocations and staff of energy; and if you have innate clarity you can also use crystal ball with low risk. That said, lichform is hilariously underpowered right now and you have to go through a lot of hoops for what essentially is some extra convenience.

Death's door is not that straightforward, but one thing to understand is that 16 "turns" is the low end duration so that's your time limit. If things look iffy at all you run for dear life but most characters should have enough offensive power to kill everything that's left. In hells it's really risky unless you're close to the exit so you probably want Borgnjor's as a backup. Mummy zig floors for example you would death's door as soon as things go south (close to stat zero or low health), then controlled blink/blink scroll to the exit. You can try killing everything on a mummy floor but it depends on how much is left; if you get in trouble too early even a first-cycle Mummy floor on the later floors can take a while to clear.

There's also chain-casting death's door but that complicates things since you then have to figure out the best way to keep enemies, smiters and damnation away from a few turns and do it all over again, and you still need to find a safe place to rest afterwards!

# ? Mar 2, 2017 13:04

blackflare: Dec 6, 2004; I am a Purrrfect Princess

I finally succeeded in a personal challenge run last week, I wanted to catch up reading the thread before posting about it.

http://pastebin.com/RakGgHRr

code:

17615801 Parsimony the Axe Maniac (level 27, 246/249 HPs)
             Began as a Formicid Fighter on Feb 12, 2017.
             Was the Champion of the Shining One.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Feb 17, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 04:23:49 (88722 turns).

I've been making attempts at this on and off for a few years? Basically just wanted to get a FoFi to 15 runes. I had quite a few games get to 14 runes before but a pan lord would usually kill me.

Any suggestions for something new and dumb to do?

edit: Oh and while we're giving our crawl ideas here to the devs, I'm curious if theres a way to make some kind of luck brand for jewelry or something that would increase chances at getting giant vaults or timed portals. I'm the kind of player that eats all the purple, and vaults are like mutations of the dungeon :v:

blackflare fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Mar 2, 2017

# ? Mar 2, 2017 15:17

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Centaur of Qaz

Storm Horse

# ? Mar 2, 2017 15:39

Ugly John: Jul 18, 2009; [img]https://forums.somethingawful.com/attachment.php?postid=514899866[/img]

In a similar vein, DrTm of Qaz going for Dragon Form.

Become the Storm Dragon.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 15:47

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

OpMo of Chei is pretty cool, the early game is brutal but chei stats and constriction turn you into a okay glass cannon. Shields will be the only thing you can count on for protection so you wanna try and get that ASAP. If you find statue form you become near unstoppable and can stone-tentacle-slap things so hard you will one-shot almost everything on a good damage roll.

e: grammar :downs:

apple fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Mar 2, 2017

# ? Mar 2, 2017 16:49

Fhqwhgads: Jul 18, 2003; I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID

So Maxwell's is a death sentence, right? My MiGl^(WuJianClan) just found it and I want to wear it but that -Tele is going to kill me I just know it...

# ? Mar 2, 2017 18:14

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

Fhqwhgads posted:

So Maxwell's is a death sentence, right? My MiGl^(WuJianClan) just found it and I want to wear it but that -Tele is going to kill me I just know it...

I've worn it for a while and it did the job pretty well. You definitely want to replace it before the late game though.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 18:30

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Has anyone ever worn Lear's head-to-toe hauberk? It seems like anytime I've ever found it the various resists and other things from the rest of my gear was always way more useful than the AC it provided.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 18:43

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I wear it most of the time I find it I think. It's really good, usually you only get one or two resists from those slots anyways and the AC is huge(with low investment required)

# ? Mar 2, 2017 18:45

rj54x: Sep 16, 2007

I know it's been said a few times before - but guy who wrote the Council god, you rock. This god totally changes how you play a melee character (in precisely the way that Oka or Trog don't) in a fantastic way. I'm playing a MiFi right now, which is normally as vanilla as you can get, and having a loving blast backflipping over enemies, whirlwinding through crowds, etc.

Couple quick questions -
Does invocations affect any of the abilities?
For the debuff on whirlwind - is that only for the slow effect, and not the "attack on move" part?
Does whirlwind always attack all adjacent enemies, ala cleave?

Thanks!

# ? Mar 2, 2017 19:09

blackflare: Dec 6, 2004; I am a Purrrfect Princess

Why do I feel like the only person that doesn't really get the council god? I tried with a few different characters, I figured longswords + dodging for extra ripostes as you move around. I dunno, just doesn't really seem strong enough to me, maybe I need to get luckier with my equipment.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 19:19

Mr. Prokosch: Feb 14, 2012; Behold My Magnificence!

Council God is pretty strong regardless of equipment. You go from having regular attacks to having a multi-target default attack that can apply slow, a jump area attack that can function as a limited controlled blink and can apply disorientation (to anyone on the screen? I've seen it mess with people outside the damage range) and an extra damage attack when enemies have either of the other two status effects. Those first three abilities give a universal/spammable upgrade in default damage as well as some control and movement bonuses.

Then you get two very powerful piety abilities, one that gives two free attacks/extra moves and one that limits line of sight and gives a slaying bonus for as long as you keep killing.

I've been playing with Formicids because the movement tricks let you escape bad situations to make up for stasis and the extra damage / status stuff helps kill everything easier. I'd say Council God is weakest when it comes to high-powered tools to let you kill something you maybe shouldn't be fighting like uniques. A lot of gods let you spam summons or really power up and 2 extra hits / a temp slaying bonus isn't going to cut it. Council God helps you escape and fight another day.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 19:35

blackflare: Dec 6, 2004; I am a Purrrfect Princess

Yeah I gave it another try and I think I found a combination I like.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 19:39

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

IronicDongz posted:

I wear it most of the time I find it I think. It's really good, usually you only get one or two resists from those slots anyways and the AC is huge(with low investment required)

Once, on a Gargoyle. It was pretty great.

I died when Evolution gave me a body slot mutation that immediately took the whole thing off of me, in the middle of combat, without me noticing because I was tabbing too hard, of course.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 19:55

EightFlyingCars: Jun 30, 2008

I've got two runes on my MiFi of WJC, but I'm still using a vampiric war axe. The only other vampiric weapon I've found is a lajatang. Should I give up using shields for it? My shield of reflection has been an absolute lifesaver.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 20:12

Archenteron: Nov 3, 2006

EightFlyingCars posted:

give up [...] shield of reflection

No.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 20:45

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

EightFlyingCars posted:

I've got two runes on my MiFi of WJC, but I'm still using a vampiric war axe. The only other vampiric weapon I've found is a lajatang. Should I give up using shields for it? My shield of reflection has been an absolute lifesaver.

I would look less for a vampiric weapon and more for another axe, since that's what you have training in. If you can find a broad axe anywhere, that will work well with your shield. Otherwise, the other option is dropping the shield for a battleaxe (or executioner's axe if you are lucky). It's almost never a good idea to train a different weapon skill that late unless you are desperate or you found a broken unrandart like Wyrmbane. If you have enough throwable ammo, you might get away with training throwing to soften things up and finish them off at close range while kiting them to a safe area.

I would recommend cheap support magic spells and summoning as another alternative as well, but you are a minotaur so most of those options are probably hard to attain.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 20:50

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

EightFlyingCars posted:

I've got two runes on my MiFi of WJC, but I'm still using a vampiric war axe. The only other vampiric weapon I've found is a lajatang. Should I give up using shields for it? My shield of reflection has been an absolute lifesaver.

In my opinion, Axes are the worst weapon type to use a shield with. Your upgrade path is limited to a broad axe, which is okay(and honestly servicable enough for a 3 rune win), but battle axes are slightly better and exec axes are leagues better. And as a Minotaur, you have xp to spare getting exec axe delay down. (And also have xp to spare getting AC/EV up so you don't need a shield as badly)

So basically what floodkiller said, but with a bias towards dumping the shield.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 21:34

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

The exception is Arga, for both good 1-handed axes and reasons to switch weapon type.

I recently had a stealthy stabby shortblade vinestalker find Arga in my second lair branch and orange crystal plate in a Gozag shop and reversed direction entirely, it was well worth it.

# ? Mar 2, 2017 22:24

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

The other exception is of course being a formicid, though it's not relevant in this case.

Two-handers and shields, together at last!

# ? Mar 2, 2017 22:43

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWo__6Xn6Qs&t=104s

# ? Mar 2, 2017 23:48

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

Crawl .20: Niggerkiller turns his gaze towards you

# ? Mar 2, 2017 23:52

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Samog posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWo__6Xn6Qs&t=104s

But delete Beogh because racisms

# ? Mar 2, 2017 23:59

dpeg: Jul 18, 2008; As far as I see it, you should never go to SA to look out for useful feedback or even interesting ideas; I certainly don't

Nuclearmonkee posted:

But delete Beogh because racisms

What? Who? Why?

If there's ever a dev concensus that a single species god doesn't work anymore, then I'll argue for opening up Beogh. In such a way that at sufficiently high piety, you become an honorary orc. Hopefully that's not necessary, I like my video game racism pure and unbridled. (I don't like players called Niggerkiller, and I really think we should do something about it.)

# ? Mar 3, 2017 00:04

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

Samog posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWo__6Xn6Qs&t=104s

thank mr skeltal

# ? Mar 3, 2017 00:25

Big Mad Drongo: Nov 10, 2006

Mr. Prokosch posted:

Council God is pretty strong regardless of equipment. You go from having regular attacks to having a multi-target default attack that can apply slow, a jump area attack that can function as a limited controlled blink and can apply disorientation (to anyone on the screen? I've seen it mess with people outside the damage range) and an extra damage attack when enemies have either of the other two status effects. Those first three abilities give a universal/spammable upgrade in default damage as well as some control and movement bonuses.

Then you get two very powerful piety abilities, one that gives two free attacks/extra moves and one that limits line of sight and gives a slaying bonus for as long as you keep killing.

I've been playing with Formicids because the movement tricks let you escape bad situations to make up for stasis and the extra damage / status stuff helps kill everything easier. I'd say Council God is weakest when it comes to high-powered tools to let you kill something you maybe shouldn't be fighting like uniques. A lot of gods let you spam summons or really power up and 2 extra hits / a temp slaying bonus isn't going to cut it. Council God helps you escape and fight another day.

Another plus for Formicids: if there's a wall between you and an enemy and you dig through, it counts as a Lunge. You can finally be the murderous Kool-Aid Man you always wanted to be!

# ? Mar 3, 2017 00:33

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

I'm glad niggerkiller is dead

# ? Mar 3, 2017 00:35

EightFlyingCars: Jun 30, 2008

That was my first time in Zot 5 and holy poo poo it is no joke

I lucked into a really good artifact broad axe and large shield, and managed to scrounge up some really nice rings and GDA. Almost maxed resistances, max Fighting and Axes. I could at least reach the Orb with all that, right?

Well,

# ? Mar 3, 2017 01:35

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

How bad is *slow? Found a +5 ring mail with blink and regen and I'd really like to wear it.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 01:41

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

Darth Windu posted:

How bad is *slow? Found a +5 ring mail with blink and regen and I'd really like to wear it.

It is not very bad if your evasion is good. Occasionally being slowed isn't a huge deal for lots of chars, it just depends on how often you have to turn tail and run after being punched hard.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 02:19

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

kaschei posted:

I'm glad niggerkiller is dead

There are new niggerkillers every day. You can hardly log in without seeing it.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 02:51

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 03:01

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

NIggerkillerkiller

# ? Mar 3, 2017 04:00

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Got another GrGl going with WJC (after stupidly losing my previous one at Zot 1, I really shouldn't play tired).

Is a vamp morningstar a good endgame weapon for a 3 rune?, in other words, should I spend my ?enchant weapon on it? Can my whip carry my to the end?

https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/unimpressed/unimpressed.txt

Going to reiterate, WJC is extremely fun, you really feel like a Kung Fu master with wings and a flail playing this.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 05:16

Tarezax: Sep 12, 2009; MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT

Good lord Meliai are dangerous. I died trying to escape upstairs from their smites, forgetting I had fog on me.

# ? Mar 3, 2017 05:18

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:35

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Unimpressed posted:

Is a vamp morningstar a good endgame weapon for a 3 rune?, in other words, should I spend my ?enchant weapon on it? Can my whip carry my to the end?

Yeah, I'd rate it a solid 4 out of 6. While there is better, it's drat good weapon for now that will save you a ton of consumables you'll forget to use later (speaking from personal experience). I'd arbitrarily take it to +5 and then save the rest. Unfortunately, it won't help you much against curse toes, ancient lichs, or orbs of fire. Much later visit the hall of blades in elf: 2 in hopes of an eveningstar. Also keep an eye out for demon whips. Maces with holy wrath, a good base type, and a naturally good plus.

Edit insert: but a vamp morningstar will be useful against draconians and dragons in Zot and almost all of depths and vaults.

If you find an eveningstar, drop your remaining ?ew and ?bw on it. It has a good base type to take advantage of skill multipliers, and even unbranded it'll be better against unliving enemies. The ideal brands (that you actually have good odds of random rebranding) are probably crushing, freezing, and flaming.

On the other hand, demon whips have a lower min delay and start becoming more common late game (depths, vestibule of hell, some uniques, spriggans and hell knights, occasionally vaults), and you can afford to pick and choose a bit more. Because of attack speed, electrocution is pretty attractive but that isn't your only option. A demon whip has lower base damage and vampirism is pretty good, so I wouldn't invest in any old +0 demon whip, though I might burn brand weapon or enchant weapon on one with potential.

LordSloth fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Mar 3, 2017

# ? Mar 3, 2017 06:23

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