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Ah, ok. The failure point in my previous attempt (ignoring failing to create the right title twice in a row) was not subjugating sjaeland and then by the time I got around to attacking them they'd grown AND eaten the one province holy site. Then norway/denmark became a giant clusterfuck as the islanders launched a subjugation of sjaeland who was already embroiled in a decade long revolt that was going nowhere.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:25
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Moridin920 posted:It's easier to form the kingdom first because you can subjugate for Sjaelland and then you can usually just vassalize the other one bc he is a count iirc. You can't copy the flag over though.
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Mar 1, 2017 19:54
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Vengarr posted:Yeah, you'll get the defensive attrition. Orcs and Ostriches posted:If you have all of Sweden and Denmark, and the Norwegian holy site is an independent count, you can probably offer vasalization to him. Any single county norse provinces will likely swear fealty to a neighboring norse king, so just ask.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:09
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Do norse lose their subjugation CB when they form a king level title or something? I formed sweden and now I can't subjugate sjaeland, or ostlandet which became huge while I was trying to raise funds to form sweden.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:19
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Carcer posted:Do norse lose their subjugation CB when they form a king level title or something? I formed sweden and now I can't subjugate sjaeland, or ostlandet which became huge while I was trying to raise funds to form sweden. This has been a bug for a long time. The become a king ambition gives you as many subjugation CBs as you want, in the De Jure kingdom. However, using them still uses your Pagan Subjugation DB.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:24
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So I have to subjagate Sjaeland and THEN use the ambition for forming sweden? Or will that break somehow as well.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:31
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It's been a while since I tested it out, but using Pagan CB first should not affect your Ambition CB. That order should work.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:33
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Carcer posted:So I have to subjagate Sjaeland and THEN use the ambition for forming sweden? Or will that break somehow as well.
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Mar 1, 2017 20:46
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Ostlandet has taken the 3rd holy site 4 games in a row and the fuckers won't submit under my rightful rule. I'm going to have to forge a claim and tear it out of them. Until then, I suppose I raid and generally beat up pagans around me. E: Yeeeeaaaaah, this isn't working at all. Carcer fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 21:43
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The way I did it was to rush-subjugate the bottom holy site and fabricate on the top one while I was doing that.
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Mar 1, 2017 23:57
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I ended up with my kingdom constantly in civil war because i had to many vassals after uniting the Norse world under my thumb. So I was giving chiefs to jarls with no care about geography. so my jarls were in a constant low boil of fighting over de jure claims. This gave me reign to conga line conquer lands in England and get the moral authority to reform as the Fylkirate. Then I was broke for about 20 years thanks to constantly having my levies active and not raiding defnding against random holy wars by the Catholics
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Mar 2, 2017 00:09
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Just break off about 1000 guys and have them do a roundtrip of the med. If you time it right Constantinople will have regened its looting reserves by the time you're done hitting the other easy marks.
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Mar 2, 2017 00:23
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What is with this advice??? DPs Guide to Moral Authority for Norse Pagans 1) Burn the World Burn down every single one country province in the world with a church in it. Ireland is the easiest/simplest/closest but there's a few in England and your fellow pagan lands. Every Holy Site has one and there's a few easy ones you can reach. 2) Conquest can wait Conquests might be appealing but if you take them in Ireland, that's one county you can't burn down. Let it lie fallow. 3) Burn Down The Papacy The Papacy is weak and small and any but the tiniest of Raiding nations can do it. I´ve done it as an Ibadi, Finnish Pagan, gently caress, as a Manichean. And if you capture the Pope, well...  4) Go for the Holy Sites I can guess you can do that? The one in Zeeland is easy enough but this is only useful if you've been rushing. Still, a few stacks of Tribal Warriors there and ticking warscore will get you what you want. That means you should have 40 if you have the others and only need to make up for the other idiots failing conquests and prepared invasions.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:09
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I think it is imbalanced that when I Great Blot a Muslim they get -3% moral authority to their religion, meanwhile others don't get that unless you get their religious head. Is there something I'm missing? 'Cuz it seems broken that even sacrificing a landless courtier = -3% moral authority to their religion. Been wondering about that lately but that last post just reminded me.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:13
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So uh if you capture a king/leader does that always autowin you the war and if so how long has that been a thing? Because I just got loving mullered by a 14k stack but I suddenly have 100% warscore anyway and christ, that's pretty good isn't it? 
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Mar 2, 2017 01:42
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In my current game I can't actually raid the pope because he has no land. Rome has been controlled by pagans for over a century but they don't control enough of the duchy to usurp it. The remaining lands are controlled by Germanic Lombardy who have never bothered to do anything about it. He's declared at least three crusades that were fought only by knightly orders because there are no other independent Catholics left. The only landed Catholics that aren't knights are vassals in Central Asia. I'm a bit bored of controlling all of Western Europe and the patch is just around the corner so I'm just going to hand out independence to everyone and then convert this to use for Europa Universalis. 
FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 01:50
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spectralent posted:So uh if you capture a king/leader does that always autowin you the war and if so how long has that been a thing? Because I just got loving mullered by a 14k stack but I suddenly have 100% warscore anyway and christ, that's pretty good isn't it? It's always been that way.
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Mar 2, 2017 02:02
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Further daily discovery: Need to be adjacent to your botes to raid somewhere properly. Further further discovery: You don't need to be adjacent to botes to sack temples or kidnap people  Mantis42 posted:It's always been that way. I'm really glad I worked that out when it came in useful. OTOH this might explain a few times I inexplicably lost wars all of a sudden.
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Mar 2, 2017 02:16
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Sometimes when I know I'm going to lose a war the final hail mary play is just beeline for wherever their capital is and siege it down real quick to hopefully capture the leader and/or other close family (which also give a big warscore bump iirc).
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Mar 2, 2017 04:33
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Moridin920 posted:Sometimes when I know I'm going to lose a war the final hail mary play is just beeline for wherever their capital is and siege it down real quick to hopefully capture the leader and/or other close family (which also give a big warscore bump iirc). This is why you train your leaders to be killing machines and lead your armies against your foes, dudes love battlefield duels just cant get enough of em One time I had a dad, a son, and a second son all die in the same battle to the same khan. They can't get enough battlefield duels!!
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Mar 2, 2017 05:30
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It's a bit frustrating that you can get through a lot of the game if you have a high Martial or Intrigue score. Having high Martial gives you enough personal levies that factions trigger far less often, and you've got the manpower for offensive wars. Having high Intrigue means that you can keep  until you get a vassal who doesn't hate you, or until the title reverts back to you. High Diplomacy and... well, vassals who like you will like you more, but vassals who don't will still hate your guts. High Stewardship and you can eke out another demesne slot or two, but I hope your next ruler has the same score or higher, or you're losing it. High Learning and you don't even deserve this game, really. It'd be good to have 'offensive' actions for the 3 loser stats. Throwing out some (bad) ideas, but Diplomacy could persuade another courtier to duel your target, Stewardship could buy up your target's property/buy the debts of their family and friends, Learning could embarrass your target in public debates or arguments.
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Mar 2, 2017 07:35
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High diplomacy totally helps with the stabbing, incidentally. Potentially even more than high intrigue, if you're in a large realm.
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Mar 2, 2017 08:22
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
How do you afford this? With all my levies raised (Generally between 2500 and 4500 troops) It costs me 4 gold a month, a tribal army on top of that is another 1.7 or something. If I'm not spending my raiding time hitting lucrative med areas I feel I'd go bankrupt really quickly.
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Mar 2, 2017 10:19
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Moridin920 posted:I think it is imbalanced that when I Great Blot a Muslim they get -3% moral authority to their religion, meanwhile others don't get that unless you get their religious head. It's just a bug. I thought it was fixed in the previous patch, but seems not. It is fixed internally though, so you'll get it when M&M hits.
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Mar 2, 2017 10:44
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Jabor posted:High diplomacy totally helps with the stabbing, incidentally. Potentially even more than high intrigue, if you're in a large realm. Huh, I didn't know this. How so? Getting more people involved in the plot?
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Mar 2, 2017 10:50
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spectralent posted:Huh, I didn't know this. How so? Getting more people involved in the plot? Higher diplomacy = more people like you more than the other guy = easier stabbing.
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Mar 2, 2017 11:07
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Ok, so, everything finally went right. I subjugated sjaeland, formed sweden and I've got 3 holy sites. As I land to raid chuches in ireland a loving revolt fires in the county I land and my raiders are narrowly beaten by the rebels and my dumb goddam rear end is captured. The rebels won in the time it took me to get enough soldiers back to fight them again, and I've now beaten the army and raided all of the lands of my captor but I'm still tuck in jail. Is there nothing I can do, short of ransoming myself (Which my captor won't accept, anyway) to get myself free? e: ransomed myself, new complaint. Combat is a black box, how the gently caress do I lose a fight where I outnumber the other guy and he has no one leading his center against an 18 martial guy with boosts to leading the center. Carcer fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 13:05
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Carcer posted:e: ransomed myself, new complaint. Combat is a black box, how the gently caress do I lose a fight where I outnumber the other guy and he has no one leading his center against an 18 martial guy with boosts to leading the center. Is most of your army lovely light infantry going up against their knights and heavy infantry and stuff?
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Mar 2, 2017 14:27
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Yeah, HI can beat LI outnumbered like 3-1. They're a bit sadder if there's lots of archers, but in general expect HI to win anywhere the numbers are reasonably comparable.
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Mar 2, 2017 14:29
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Also commanders don't matter very much. If the battle is otherwise very close the commanders can make a difference but troop count and composition is far far far more important.
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Mar 2, 2017 14:34
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To check, if I have an empire-level title it doesn't matter if the king-level titles change hands on my death so long as my heir is still emperor, right? Even if the king of norway is my nephew or something my son's still his boss?
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Mar 2, 2017 15:04
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I've come back from the Great Bullshit Thrashing of 886 but now Norse moral authority is at 22 from other idiots losing wars and I'm never going to be able to raid enough irish to get back to 50 before I die and lose all my piety. e: Ok now its at 11 and I think I should just give up on playing this game for a while. Carcer fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 15:07
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Carcer posted:I've come back from the Great Bullshit Thrashing of 886 but now Norse moral authority is at 22 from other idiots losing wars and I'm never going to be able to raid enough irish to get back to 50 before I die and lose all my piety. Conquer then or get into alliances with them. If they're your vassal, they're less likely to start religious wars, and can't be holy-warred. If they're your allies, you can help the dipshits not ruin things for you (and also protect norsedom's borders from rampaging catholics)
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Mar 2, 2017 15:27
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I'm just frustrated a bunch of crap has happened and now my guy is too old to pull it back before he dies and I'm nearly back to step 1 again. It took me about 6 tries to get to this point and I'm not up to a 7th.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:35
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If you can secure all 5 holy sites moral authority no longer matters and you can reform the faith immediately. That said the 5th one is a few counties deep into Karlingsblob Germany, and may trigger Crusades.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:45
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I've considered that but I can see myself basking in the achievement for about 5 seconds before the entirety of Christendom comes down on me like a furious storm of swords, crosses and hail marys.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:00
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Man, now that I know you always win the war if you capture their king I've been able to pull off some real blitzkrieg bullshit. Why even bother worrying about defensive coalitions if you can be in their capital/main stack about three months before anyone gets here and force their king to sign a peace? I've got the scandanavian empire and enough territory to make England if I get enough cash, which I strongly suspect I'll be able to get now I can have like 5k of raiders. OTOH my threat is now at 100%.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:04
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The trick is to never not be at war. Start by attacking your weakest neighbours. Get a tribal army as soon as you have enough prestige but never end a war without declaring a new one first or they'll vanish. Spend all your prestige on more tribal armies and raid on the side. If you are doing religious wars then declare many at once since the targets same religiion neighbours will join anyway. Raiding some soft targets in a strong realm before actually going to war is also good because then those holdings will be really easy to siege for some cheap warscore. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 16:06
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spectralent posted:Man, now that I know you always win the war if you capture their king I've been able to pull off some real blitzkrieg bullshit. Why even bother worrying about defensive coalitions if you can be in their capital/main stack about three months before anyone gets here and force their king to sign a peace? I've got the scandanavian empire and enough territory to make England if I get enough cash, which I strongly suspect I'll be able to get now I can have like 5k of raiders. huh, what are the odds of capturing the guy in charge when you take their capital anyway? it sounds to me like you're getting some crazy good luck if you're pulling it off that consistently
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Mar 2, 2017 16:09
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I think the super cheese method is to convert to Christianity, become feudal/republic, then convert back to unreformed Norse (or die and let your unreformed Norse heir inherit.) Now you have the best of both worlds.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:10
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