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Lifeglug posted:It's a mod that specifically removes any non-white humans. Ooooooooooh. Well that's even worse then.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:46
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I kinda have to agree that what psionics got was qualitatively beyond what existing systems got, to the point that it feels like cyber/bio ascension needs to catch up with psi.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:52
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Should probably wait for the expansion before full on judgement calls IMO
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Mar 2, 2017 15:58
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Ok, but, then it's just a matter of sprinkling in "it looks/seems like" to get back to what the thread is for.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:00
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Psionics SHOULD be better imo, psionics supremacy. death to materialists
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Mar 2, 2017 16:05
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Mazz posted:Should probably wait for the expansion before full on judgement calls IMO Why would you want to stop the posters trying to discuss how shafted non psionics are because they have clearly already played the expansion and are just trying to warn us
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Mar 2, 2017 16:25
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All numbers are final and you won't convince me otherwise 
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Mar 2, 2017 16:31
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The only way I could see the cybernetics path as serious balls compared to the other two, is if it means you get stuck with lameass endgame armies that do little damage/have little health compared to the other two's psi corps and gene warrior godmen. That'd be a massive letdown as no amount of +20% army damage makes up for having a lovely baseline army. But if there is an endgame super killer robot army also somewhere in there, consider me perfectly satisfied.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:35
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Eej posted:Why would you want to stop the posters trying to discuss how shafted non psionics are because they have clearly already played the expansion and are just trying to warn us i don't think it's that controversial to think that psionic is sounding like the shiniest of the three toys the dev diary itself shows an awareness that it being made from scratch instead of improving already existing systems is a distinction worth making
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Mar 2, 2017 16:40
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Crazycryodude posted:I'll admit I'm kind of disappointed with the 2 new paths, especially the Synthetic one. Neither path has any really interesting new mechanics like the Shroud, and the Synth path seems like little more than a glorified time saver. It doesn't really add anything I couldn't do already by purging the fleshbags and building synths in their place, I guess I'm a dumb gay roleplayer but there's no way I could bring myself to purge all my populations. Plus it'd take FOREVER.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:43
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Brother Entropy posted:i don't think it's that controversial to think that psionic is sounding like the shiniest of the three toys Shiniest, yes, but in terms of actual game play benefits it's not that clear. The "Psychic" scientist trait gives +10% research speed and +25% survey speed, which is not gamebreaking compared to say "Erudite" giving +20% science production and +1 leader skill or "Cyborg" giving +40 years of leader life. A lot is going to depend on how the Shroud plays out...if it's just "spend energy and minerals for RNG love" synthetic and biological might be more fun. I think biological may be the most consistent with my general playstyle, in fact. Taear posted:I guess I'm a dumb gay roleplayer but there's no way I could bring myself to purge all my populations. It does. Oh god, it does. I did it for Suffer Not The Alien, and never again.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:46
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Doctor Zero posted:Was I supposed to read this in Cave Johnson's voice? Because I read it in Cave Johnson's voice.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:50
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ulmont posted:Shiniest, yes, but in terms of actual game play benefits it's not that clear. yeah that's fair but it'd be kinda disappointing if the way it panned out was 'play genemod or robots if you want to be efficient, play psionics if you want to have fun novel mechanics', ideally they'd all have fun mechanics but changing species traits doesn't have that narrative pop that the shroud sounds like it's gonna have(to me, at least)
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Mar 2, 2017 16:53
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The dev diary even says at the beginning "The Shroud was a fairly major mechanical addition to the game, which we felt was needed as Psionics lacked any such mechanic associated with them, unlike the other two. For this reason, the Biological and Synthetic Ascension Paths do not have the same degree of new mechanics associated with them, but rather focus on enhancing the existing mechanics (Genemodding and Robots) that they are tied to." So you may start your bitching engines. That said, I'm sure there's still more to Synthetic and Biological than what we're seeing. Not "The Shroud" levels of more stuff to discover, but more stuff all the same.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:54
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Captain Oblivious posted:The dev diary even says at the beginning "The Shroud was a fairly major mechanical addition to the game, which we felt was needed as Psionics lacked any such mechanic associated with them, unlike the other two. For this reason, the Biological and Synthetic Ascension Paths do not have the same degree of new mechanics associated with them, but rather focus on enhancing the existing mechanics (Genemodding and Robots) that they are tied to." Hopefully some of the "more stuff" is more robot-portraits. Nothing is dumber than your space spiders suddenly deciding to built humanoid robots. Honestly, I never even used robots before, simply because most of my species so far have been non-humanoid. (Yes, this point is that much of a turn off for me.  )
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Mar 2, 2017 17:02
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Seriously, they need to tie the robot style to the portrait file so it can be used in modding. If there's some in-game picker, bonus, but they definitely need to make it moddable.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:06
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Libluini posted:Hopefully some of the "more stuff" is more robot-portraits. Nothing is dumber than your space spiders suddenly deciding to built humanoid robots. I'd also quite like my chill sloth men to have the option of building horrifying spider robots should I desire it.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:21
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Robo-lords can still gene mod though right? I know they're trying to add very set gameplay types, pick one and you can't do anything with the others but it feels like pigeon-holing the player into a very specific and arbitrary play style in the name of making the styles different. What if I want to be slightly gene-modded physic cyborgs? Just a touch of all 3 and locking me out of the final ones, or just 2 of the mid-way steps. Super genetically engineered cyborg super-humans that have bio-engineered them selves and have implants for the rest, or a blend of genes and bio-implants that blur the line between bio engineering and cybernetics. Maybe I don't want to go "all the way" with either ascension path, just take bits from both, at a balanced cost. Also if you go bio you can make 50 different species all suited for exact conditions and specific tile work, but will the game sort them correctly or will it be micro-management hell of you noticing your +10% physics race is on an energy plant and your +10% energy race is on a farm tile and so on? And why not be able to do the same with robots, to specialize them? Or it's assuming that every robot pop is specialized or becomes specialized for that tile's work type thus the flat bonuses? Sometimes I think that might be a better way of handling gene mods too. A pop can only work one tile at a time, so just slap multiple bonuses on a race abstracting the fact that that race now has multiple sub-species. Like instead of creating a separate pop with a +10% research bonus and another with a +10% mineral bonus and having to keep track and micro both pops to go to the correct jobs, just have a single pop with both +10% research and +10% mining representing that on the empire level your species has a bunch of sub-types and obviously the correct sub-type is on the correct tile. Heck have "sub-species" a limited thing, each race can have 1-2 sub-species abstracted into their general population. You make the sub-species and it's bonuses are simply added (but not stacked) to your main race and the game automatically uses the single best bonus for what ever tile it's on. No more clicking on the species tab and seeing 20 sub species. No need for an AI to optimize placement, or human micro-management.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:26
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Wiz, when someone last asked if there would be any specific Synthetic Ascension interactions with the Machine Consciousness endgame crisis faction, you said that it was being considered, time permitting. Did anything come of that? It seems like an obvious connection to make, story-wise, but the dev diary doesn't mention anything at all.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:30
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quote:Delicious: Makes the species delicious and nutritious, granting +100% food yield from Processing and Livestock. lol wow Anyone tried portrait modding much in the game yet? Will it be possible to decouple the generic robot-synth portrait from the synth one your species turns into? I'd like to make some unique portraits for that so my dudes don't all turn into tin cans when I uplift them.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:45
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Koramei posted:lol wow I've been portrait modding a bunch recently, and so far there's no indication that they can be decoupled. Robots ingame currently are just a population with a specific portrait associated with them that has nothing to do with whatever portrait you're using. I'm hoping that they'll associate robots with specific portraits so that both the robots you build and the synths you can become would be customized.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:54
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Yeah I hope they give us a robot pack plus the in game hooks to do race-specific ones.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:56
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Baronjutter posted:Yeah I hope they give us a robot pack plus the in game hooks to do race-specific ones. Let's just clamor for it here until Wiz sees us and does it for us
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Mar 2, 2017 18:57
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I think it's still a bit lame that when you develop your mecha species you can't specialize it. I mean, I'd think it would be nice to be able to "build" pops, that would be more limited than the biological ones (i.e. their traits aren't as strong) but available quicker and at whatever point you wanted. Also needs to have KillBot armies
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Mar 2, 2017 18:59
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Do you now get automatic robot growth or do you still have to build them manually if you go synth?
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Mar 2, 2017 19:02
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Does anyone, including the Paradox guys, know the answer to the question of whether you can pick the starting perk from multiple ascension paths? I get that it's partly to force a meaningful choice, but say I wanted to have psionics and use genetically enhanced soldiers, it looks like I have to choose between them now?
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Mar 2, 2017 19:21
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Kitchner posted:Does anyone, including the Paradox guys, know the answer to the question of whether you can pick the starting perk from multiple ascension paths? Yep, if you aren't hyper-specializing you're playing wrong.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:24
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Baronjutter posted:Yep, if you aren't hyper-specializing you're playing wrong. I don't know, I think it would be cool if it was like you can pick two of those perks so it sort of works like ethics. You can be psychix cyborgs or genetically engineered cyborgs or genetically engineers psychics, or you can be super psychics, super robots, or super genetically enhanced
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Mar 2, 2017 19:40
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Kitchner posted:I don't know, I think it would be cool if it was like you can pick two of those perks so it sort of works like ethics. You can be psychix cyborgs or genetically engineered cyborgs or genetically engineers psychics, or you can be super psychics, super robots, or super genetically enhanced Yeah I totally agree, the paradox team does not, they think a big problem in the game is that there aren't enough mutually exclusive playstyles which make the experience too samey no matter what race you're playing. I agree that the game can get samey but it's mostly that we just don't have enough options or valid strategies/goals rather than needing to be forced down narrow predefined paths. But we haven't actually played it yet so it's hard to say how it will turn out and too soon to be hyper critical of any feature or direction.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:47
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I'm just going to say i doubt it would be outrageously difficult to do synth versions of all main portraits. So long as they stick to the animations of the original it should just be a retexture. Time and work, yes, but in terms of animating not really much extra work.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:51
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Oh, wow, I didn't consider that angle. If we still have to manually build pops after becoming a synthetic empire, the path becomes borderline unplayable. At least, if they still take 30 months to build and only 1 can gain progress at a time. A huge decrease in build time or letting synths on the same planet be constructed in parallel would fix it.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:53
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And who says your synth version even needs to look different? In the whole AI rebellion event fluff it talks about infiltrators and how they're hard to detect. I'd imagine my species would just make synthetic bodies that look like their bio-selves. Fleshy goopy milk filled robots like an "artificial person" from alien rathan an a tin can. Then again at this point of technology we'd all be living in the cloud and some sort of limited hive-mind and use all sorts of different specialized bodies when we want to interact with the physical world. I want to be a massive matrioshka brain running trillions of individual minds and having an utterly alien and unfathomable concept of what a person or individual even is anymore. And yeah holy poo poo if we have to build our pops manually since they take forever to build and the AI can't figure out how to build robots AND buildings. Hello massive planets in sectors with 2 pops and 0 buildings sitting on thousands of minerals.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:55
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Kitchner posted:Does anyone, including the Paradox guys, know the answer to the question of whether you can pick the starting perk from multiple ascension paths? The answer is "No", from dev diary 56. quote:Finally there are the three 'Species Endgame' paths: The biological path, the spiritual path and the synthetic path. These three paths each consist of two perks, the first of which unlocks access to the second once a number of other pre-requisites have been met. The paths are mutually exclusive, and once you start heading down one of them, the other two are locked off.
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Mar 2, 2017 19:57
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The gene modding UI is really bad so I'll probably be avoiding that path unless and until the interface is cleaned up. It's way too much  to deal with.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:03
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Bold Robot posted:The gene modding UI is really bad so I'll probably be avoiding that path unless and until the interface is cleaned up. It's way too much Also unless you want to engineer your pops piecemeal and deal with having 20+ separate species in your empire it takes multi-decades of no society research to actually finish the project.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:06
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As things currently look letting players pick two level one ascension perks would just be a new trap. All the really cool poo poo is in level 2.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:48
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Baronjutter posted:Also unless you want to engineer your pops piecemeal and deal with having 20+ separate species in your empire it takes multi-decades of no society research to actually finish the project.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:50
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Populating synths on new planets was never problematic for me, it was expensive in a sense that you have to pay up front and then wait, but you could fully buy everything for every tile once the planet admin was up and not worry about it again. Not many synth planets I have go ever energy negative IIRC if you aren't going crazy on uniformity, so while you cant colonize like 7 planets at once in most cases, 2-3 at a time is certainly feasible.
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Mar 2, 2017 20:53
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Mazz posted:Populating synths on new planets was never problematic for me, it was expensive in a sense that you have to pay up front and then wait, but you could fully buy everything for every tile on a planet immediately on getting to the planet admin and not worry about it again. No synth for planet I had was every energy negative IIRC, so while you can colonize like 7 planets at once in most cases, 2-3 at a time was certainly feasible. But if you let them migrate they'll often leave their planets you built them on. I tried to make a robot-only planet because my race treated it at 40% hab and I could terraform it but robots sounds more fun. Like half the population left, the sector ai gets hosed if you tell it to build robots, and a bunch of idiot meat people moved there to enjoy the 40% hab. I only noticed it because they started to complain about the lack of food....
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Mar 2, 2017 20:56
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I can never play without having space-hukou because of those annoyances tbh
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Mar 2, 2017 20:59
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