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koolkevz666 posted:We need to put our units in the outskirts of the towns. Being in the outskirts means our forces won't be seen until they get within 4 inches wile we would have full vision to them out in the open. This should mean we would see them and get to fire first even with the French having initiative. They won't spot us unless they are right on top of us and so won't have any targets to shoot whilst we will see them approaching and get to fire on them. Being in the outskirts gives your units cover, but means that your units are no longer hidden. quote:Towns steinrokkan posted:Jaguars, may I propose that you should swing your guns to the western side of town? I think they would be more needed there. I could do, but doesn't Hey Gail's brigade have some already? I'd like to know where all the small brigades are going to be before I position them all. And I guess, more importantly, where do we think the french will be coming from? koolkevz666 posted:I've avoided doing so mostly because I am already in two other LP's and only have the joys of MS paint for making maps. At this point my lack of experience with deisnging orders is making me refrain from taking command though if one is available and it won't cause too much bother I guess I could claim a brigade. 45th Reinforcement is available, I'll draw some pictures of it later when I'm not in my lunchbreak.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:09
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koolkevz666 posted:I've avoided doing so mostly because I am already in two other LP's and only have the joys of MS paint for making maps. At this point my lack of experience with deisnging orders is making me refrain from taking command though if one is available and it won't cause too much bother I guess I could claim a brigade. Don't worry, if you like to paint maps, I would be happy to let you have the new brigade that is heading for the east side of St. Croissant. If you accept, your job will be to fortify that sector.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:12
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steinrokkan posted:Also something to consider: Would it be more beneficial to shorten the lines of our front brigades so they could focus more guns on shorter frontage, and also limit the amount of fire the enemy can lay on them at any particular moment? See my picture on last page or somewhere to see what I mean. Long, neat lines seem vulnerable to me. Depends on what we're expecting, really. If it's gonna be a general advance I'd rather see us spread out a bit for maximum frontage, but if it's a concentrated charge tightening up to concentrate fire is better. While the scariest thing is the first option, I'm leaning towards it being the second. Mon Pere himself is riding front and center at the head of a fresh cavalry brigade - if that's not a dead giveaway that he's a glory hound who'll be riding straight at Croissant in a concentrated charge within the next 12 turns, I no longer have any right to be smug about predicting everything before this.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:14
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steinrokkan posted:We are supposed to be building dynamic defenses as much as we can. Any one of our defending brigades should be able to quickly take up a failing brigade's place at the perimeter. With you retreating to the trenches in particular we are going to be arranged like spokes of a wheel, able to rotate between various angles facing different enemy approaches. Without blocking artillery LOS? And with the need to roll for an orders change when we want to move those reinforcements around? When infantry is really bad at killing things with rifle fire, and only so-so at suppressing them? I think that approach just magnifies the problems with our tactical situation while doing very little to create or even exploit weaknesses in the French one. EDIT: Does the defensive plan I posted last page make sense, at least? Heck, I'll repost it just in case. 
The Sandman fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 00:16
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The Sandman posted:Also, for those commenting on the overwhelming advantage of the defender, at what point have we seen that this battle? The closest we came is when the French made their first attack on Croissants back in the morning, and that was with a single brigade that had been weakened by my and Ikasuhito's brigades before it hit the town. What we'd be facing now is multiple brigades that we wouldn't be able to see until they were already on top of our infantry, who no longer have to worry about us having troops anywhere else because they'll know we pulled everything back into Croissants. I don't think we have properly defended even once this game. If there is an instance where we fought with our guns emplaced and unlimbered and not about to be overrun I can't remember it.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:19
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Jaguars! posted:Being in the outskirts gives your units cover, but means that your units are no longer hidden. Where does it say units are no longer hidden? According to the second sentence in the rules for towns a unit in the outskirts still gets Cover. According to the spotting rules an infantry unit in Cover may only be spotted at 4 inches. However, anyone approaching will be in the open and be spotted at 12 inches away giving us a spotting bonus. Also Sandman if we have our MG teams in the town but touching the rifle units in the outskirts we can measure their shooting range from the infantry which should help with putting out damage and killing the enemy.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:22
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Being in the outskirts definitely gives you spotting cover, it's why they couldn't shoot me until they were on top of me/I fired first during this little Q debacle.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:24
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Beggars can't be choosers. Our artillery won't be at peak efficiency 100% of the time, but it's still better than taking limbered artillery and quite literally hauling it to surrender to the enemy. Also aphid has a good point in saying that we haven't seen a deliberate defense of entrenched units against an equal enemy.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:25
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koolkevz666 posted:Where does it say units are no longer hidden? According to the second sentence in the rules for towns a unit in the outskirts still gets Cover. According to the spotting rules an infantry unit in Cover may only be spotted at 4 inches. However, anyone approaching will be in the open and be spotted at 12 inches away giving us a spotting bonus. It's night now, remember? Spotting is reduced to 4" under all circumstances, except when a unit opens fire (at which point it's visible out to 24"). At this point, we need our infantry far enough ahead of the MGs to spot for them while preventing the French from just continuing a successful charge against an infantry company into the MG company behind it that same turn.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:26
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Enemy can't charge at previously undetected targets. We need to deploy so we can suppress the poo poo out of as many guys as possible once they come into view and are forced to stop.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:28
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steinrokkan posted:Enemy can't charge at previously undetected targets. We need to deploy so we can suppress the poo poo out of as many guys as possible once they come into view and are forced to stop. Did you even look at my defense plan for Saint Croissants? Or were you assuming I just wanted the artillery to trundle along behind our infantry on the way to Quatrepouts?
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Mar 3, 2017 00:32
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The Sandman posted:It's night now, remember? Spotting is reduced to 4" under all circumstances, except when a unit opens fire (at which point it's visible out to 24"). At this point, we need our infantry far enough ahead of the MGs to spot for them while preventing the French from just continuing a successful charge against an infantry company into the MG company behind it that same turn. The problem here is that if our infantry are far enough forward that the French can't continue a charge into the MGs then the MGs are likely to be too far away to spot the French forces themselves and thus the infantry will have to defend on their own and will likely be overwhelmed. I think we need to decide on one of two choices. Either we go with A) Have the MGs in base contact with the infantry to add their fire or B) Have the MGs far enough away that they won't risk being charged but can't support the infantry. steinrokkan posted:Enemy can't charge at previously undetected targets. We need to deploy so we can suppress the poo poo out of as many guys as possible once they come into view and are forced to stop. That rule gets dropped at night, the French could move right into the town and go straight for a charge against any units they encounter.
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Mar 3, 2017 00:33
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So does anyone else have any specific plans for how to set up to defend the town? Or want to come to Roll20 to start making them? Because right now we don't have one, and we kind of need to actually coordinate with each other so that we don't end up overlapping our units, unable to support each other, or just working off our own individual plans instead of a single comprehensive one.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:06
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Hey Jaguars! you're the one with the wire, right? Anyways, whoever has it, do you know where you want to lay it? I'm worried about Mon Pere and his cav coming up for St. Croissant, and wire 3.5 inches in front of our defensive line facing towards Q would be a good way to tie them up and gun them down.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:29
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Crazycryodude posted:Hey Jaguars! you're the one with the wire, right? Anyways, whoever has it, do you know where you want to lay it? I'm worried about Mon Pere and his cav coming up for St. Croissant, and wire 3.5 inches in front of our defensive line facing towards Q would be a good way to tie them up and gun them down. Yeah basically, we'll do two 3" lots with a 2" gap in between them to break up the attacking lines. If we have time to ransack a second farm, we'll be able to lay another 3" of wire, but that's less to be relied on and more of a bonus.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:32
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Hi, I haven't read any of these threads, played in the last Grey Hunter attempt at this game, and was wondering if you needed anyone to fill a vacant spot either this game or the next one.
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Mar 3, 2017 01:49
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koolkevz666 posted:I've avoided doing so mostly because I am already in two other LP's and only have the joys of MS paint for making maps. .
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Mar 3, 2017 01:50
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 76bde Orders Well, this is gonna be an interesting few turns. If the enemy cavalry comes after us, try to die with dignity. If anybody somehow survives and rallies out of suppression before being cut down, KILL MON PERE. Ideally this involves my HQ chit bayonet charging him and being showered in Iron Crosses. If it appears that the enemy has left Quatreprouts without a garrison and anybody is still alive, return to the town (red arrow). If the enemy has garrisoned the town, retreat to La Cote and chill with the orphaned howitzers (blue arrow).
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Mar 3, 2017 02:13
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Okay, so after some discussion in Roll20 with Cryo, I present a revised and hopefully final version of THE PLAN: The black lines by Hegel's position are barbed wire. Blue arrows are likely directions of approach for the French cavalry. Red is the route for Koolkevz' infantry to take. Once he reaches the Baconwald, it's up to both him and our situation at that time whether he heads for Quatrepouts, charges the rear of the likely enemy positions on La Oeuf, or just waits for an opportune moment to do something. My guys are the picket line south and east of town. Saros is the picket line north of Baguette. Jaguars is north of town; should the French somehow reach it alive, his job is to counter-charge and evict them 20th Maine-style. Perestroika's orphan is the guy in Bois de Gooneville. The inspiring message in the killzone is a suggestion.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:31
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Oh drat you beat me to posting it. Anyways, I think this is a solid compromise. It uses screening infantry to overcome the shortened spotting range and relies on the metric fuckload of guns we have to vaporize any baddies. My money is personally on Mon Pere and his cav coming over the ridge via the middle arrow, so I like the barbed wire there. Regardless of whether we go with this plan or not, I like the idea of sending a unit west to circle down into Q in case they don't leave a garrison no matter what. Maybe Saros or a few companies from a healthy brigade.
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Mar 3, 2017 02:37
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There's no way you need that many pickets out. 3-4 would provide warning and the rest could be grouped somewhere so they actually have a chance of slowing down the enemy.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:44
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The ones north of Baguette could probably get pulled back to somewhere more useful, I don't think we need to really worry about them coming from that far out. Maybe remove every other spotter and space them out with 4 inches between each instead of 2 for the remainder. The idea of having a picket line far enough out that the arty can vaporize any bad guys is a good one, though.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:53
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The Sandman posted:Did you even look at my defense plan for Saint Croissants? Or were you assuming I just wanted the artillery to trundle along behind our infantry on the way to Quatrepouts? I know you said you would keep it there. Without support. Which is basically the same thing.
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Mar 3, 2017 08:07
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koolkevz666 posted:That rule gets dropped at night, the French could move right into the town and go straight for a charge against any units they encounter. That's hosed up, but thanks for reminding me of the change. The Sandman posted:Okay, so after some discussion in Roll20 with Cryo, I present a revised and hopefully final version of THE PLAN: This is very solid, but personally I would pull more artillery to Hegel's and Koolkevz side and move their infantry closer to the town. They would probably have to have only one of their infantry groups at the front at a time, but that would be a feature, not a bug, as long as the other guy could use his heavier weapons to support him / her. We do not give the French an opportunity to assault the town and engage our infantry on a wider front than necessary to effect defense. Finally, take Saros off the picket and into reserves / to screen our guns, and reduce the number of pickets, and I will authorize you to do this. (There seems to be little reason to have them spaced less than slightly below 8" between each other). steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 08:13
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Koolkev, this is your brigade, the 45th. It is under the command of Steinrokkan's 19th division. Currently, It's just behind the town of St Croissant. Main body is circled in blue, and the big black arrow shows where it will head to if no new orders are issued. The two circled groups of artillery are also yours, one is headed where the small arrow points, the other is already somewhere close to the end of it's orders and probably won't move much.  There's a link to the roll20 table on page 1. P.S. go to paint.net and use that, it's much better than MS paint. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 11:10
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79th Brigade orders Infantry Go onto attacking footing, move to the front of the town and settle down to defend. All the infantry are on the outskirts except the left one, which is to take the place of any casualties.  Artillery At 2200, if there has been no firing involving my brigade, Batteries 1 & 2 are to move south 2" and begin entrenching. If everything is still quiet, 3 & 4 will move south 2" at 2300 and entrench.  Engineers Engineers are to ransack the ferm Beurre for wire, then lay 3" entanglements with gaps between them at 2, 3 and 4. Retreat toward St Croissant if the enemy is encountered.  N.B. I won't be available before the deadline, so someone make sure the 45th gets orders if Koolkev doesn't have time to post them! Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 11:43
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I gotta say our orders are really sharp now as compared to when we started. Keep going my krauts, I believe in you 
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Mar 3, 2017 12:15
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The defence plan is, I think, solid. Stein, aphid, please issue orders to see it fulfilled, with both of you exercising full discretion over it. My internet is acting up and I will be of limited use in helping you plan, unfortunately. If you see me, feel free to ask, but I can't promise I'll be able to appear on call.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:16
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steinrokkan posted:That's hosed up, but thanks for reminding me of the change. Yeah I don't think there is a downside to a tight formation (no splash damage, we are defending a point target) and weight of fire is a serious upside.
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Mar 3, 2017 15:04
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Aphid, because you have Hegel already almost at her final positions, I will wait for you to decide on her final disposition before trying to squeeze my guys in, if that's ok. Maybe keep some slight dents in your lines so my guns can fire over them?
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Mar 3, 2017 15:07
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steinrokkan posted:Aphid, because you have Hegel already almost at her final positions, I will wait for you to decide on her final disposition before trying to squeeze my guys in, if that's ok. Maybe keep some slight dents in your lines so my guns can fire over them? I was going to put Hegel into a compact right angle formation, with guns in front as we discussed. I'm not sure what you mean by dents. Gaps? e: I'm wondering if we really need to keep the guns in front over night since they probably won't be shelling from max range under cover of darkness. e: Orders, 43D77bde to dig in west of StC facing south and west. Refer to the order map (w/ grid) in the chat room 79bde to continue fortifying their position 76bde to harass the enemy to the best of their ability aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 15:40
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Changed things around a bit on Roll20. Saros in town, my guys spread out more over most of the picket line, a few extra guns in the west. Would prefer input before posting finalized orders if at all possible.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:21
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aphid_licker posted:I was going to put Hegel into a compact right angle formation, with guns in front as we discussed. I'm not sure what you mean by dents. Gaps? That's good, I wasn't sure what was really going on with so many ideas floating around.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:11
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Alright we've got like 45 minutes left to post orders. The plan in the Roll20 page looks solid, that's what we're going with?
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Mar 3, 2017 17:15
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That eastern situation looks awfully porous. Is there anything we can do to make that more compact?steinrokkan posted:That's good, I wasn't sure what was really going on with so many ideas floating around. Me neither tbh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ We could have maybe formalized the process more. aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 17:20
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19th Division SAROS: Get north of St. C. to act as reserve capable of supporting HEGEL. THE SANDMAN:Form the picket line as outlined in your posts. KOOLKEV: Since it appears we are going with the original deployment after all - Continue to your position, enforce the eastern perimeter, Jaguars has freed up some spots in the old trenches, however I think you should put your main line south of Jaguars' guns' new position, so you have some LOS on the fields SW of St. C. Additionally set up some screen to protect your own eastern flank. Make sure your guns have decent LOSs. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 17:20
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aphid_licker posted:That eastern situation looks awfully porous. Is there anything we can do to make that more compact? Koolkev will hold that flank together. Saros will reinforce the center / west if needed. If Sandman is going for a picket line, we need a brigade in the east to actually defend the town if the line is punched through. This weakens the western side, but honestly we would be having trouble fitting more guys up there anyway.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:23
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5th Brigade Orders Set up a picket line southeast of Saint Croissants, as per the image to be provided by division HQ (as I'm at work and thus can't do so). EDIT: If units need to stay on Attack Stance until they reach final positions, they are ordered not to engage French units unless forced to by literally stumbling into them. A picket line does not good if the companies just charge at the first sign of Frenchmen. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 17:48
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To accompany Sandman's order: Only consider the circled icons. Begin moving immediately, towards the town. Near town change to defensive orders and start reshuffling units to fit the portrayed scheme.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:54
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The adjudication begins...
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Mar 3, 2017 18:17
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