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stalin was a weird and bizarre person who seems to have been connected to humanity only in the most technical sense
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Mar 3, 2017 06:01
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every good depiction of stalin in literature that i've read (direct and indirect) is more of a demonic, overbearing presence than an actual person one has to sort of admire stalin in many ways, whereas hitler was just a kind of pathetic dude when it came down to it
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Mar 3, 2017 06:03
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Whenever I read/hear about Stalin, it sometimes sounds like the author is talking about a force of nature, not some dude in Moscow. A terrifying and sociopathic force of nature, yes, but still.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:05
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Children of the Arbat had a look that was kinda interesting. We only saw him and his perspective once or twice, mostly we saw him through others that interacted with him. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:13
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HEY GAIL posted:yeah they do. people groom them over the internet like ISIS does. white supremacists have been recruiting on 4chan and reddit for a decade and now look where we are I thought the way it went was that they had basically trolled each other into Nazism.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:49
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aphid_licker posted:I thought the way it went was that they had basically trolled each other into Nazism. edit: are you familiar with how cults recruit new members? gradually revealing things, "love bombing," etc? same thing HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 06:51
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hey gail i found your anime
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Mar 3, 2017 09:42
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HEY GAIL posted:i remember reading people from stormfront pointing out 4chan as a prime recruiting ground years ago. only some of the people there thought the racism was ironic, and they got slowly sucked into it. and now they're passing it along: google "how to redpill normies" and you'll get explicit, conscious steps It's also worth noting that if you're ironically racist and won't stop that you will become racist for-reals. If you're just telling some "off-colour" jokes or using "gas chambers" as a punchline for shock humour, even if you don't follow it, there's going to be a tendency for people who call you on your poo poo. Whenever that happens, the people who go "Man, don't listen to their PC nonsense, you're hilarious" are going to include "proper" racists. This leads to you being friends with actual racists, and your friend's political views always sound more convincing and slowly integrate into your own. People who lack the ability to say sorry on that are going to trend that way. Obviously not everyone will; I know people who've slid down the slope, seen, the abyss, and  d out. But it's a trend.
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Mar 3, 2017 13:53
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I wish that trend would gently caress off, along with the fascists. I'm also in a sad mood because I got the main characters family accidentally more or less killed in that game about the Iranian revolution. You should play it Polyakov!
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Mar 3, 2017 14:03
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HEY GAIL posted:i remember reading people from stormfront pointing out 4chan as a prime recruiting ground years ago. only some of the people there thought the racism was ironic, and they got slowly sucked into it. and now they're passing it along: google "how to redpill normies" and you'll get explicit, conscious steps Not familiar w it but if there is a good source to read would love to learn more!
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Mar 3, 2017 14:05
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Ensign Expendable posted:I translated some choice excerpts. Sounds like it's better than every American superhero movie then.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:18
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HEY GAIL posted:i remember reading people from stormfront pointing out 4chan as a prime recruiting ground years ago. only some of the people there thought the racism was ironic, and they got slowly sucked into it. and now they're passing it along: google "how to redpill normies" and you'll get explicit, conscious steps I did not realize that, I just sort of assumed that it went the way spectralent described, sorta off color humor shock crap reinforcing itself and increasingly you can't talk to normal people anymore and the "ironic" part of your ironic racism is sort of fading away. Being the first Stormfronter to have to figure out how to post on 4chan has got to be amazing. 
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Mar 3, 2017 14:18
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HEY GAIL posted:i remember reading people from stormfront pointing out 4chan as a prime recruiting ground years ago. only some of the people there thought the racism was ironic, and they got slowly sucked into it. and now they're passing it along: google "how to redpill normies" and you'll get explicit, conscious steps /k/ and /lit/ supplied my milhist reading list alongside this thread 
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Mar 3, 2017 14:20
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SeanBeansShako posted:I'm also in a sad mood because I got the main characters family accidentally more or less killed in that game about the Iranian revolution. You should play it Polyakov! What's this now?
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Mar 3, 2017 14:26
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xthetenth posted:Out of curiosity were there any successful cavalry charges even on a small scale in WWI? Plenty outwith the Western Front. Even after trench warfare happened, there was a cavalry charge during the (literal) height of the Battle of the Somme at High Wood, by 300 men of the 2nd Indian Cavalry Division, which was a complete success. Cavalry didn't go out of fashion because it outright couldn't achieve anything, just that they lacked the circumstances and the C&C to use it effectively. High Wood is an excellent example; they were supposed to attack much earlier than they did and in much greater force, but there were difficulties first in getting the orders to the cavalry, and then the cavalry got split up and lost and hosed up while trying to move forward across old battlefields riddled with wire and abandoned trenches and corpses and massive shell-holes. Then they took the wood and dismounted to hold it, but it took forever to get the message back that they'd taken the wood, and then when infantry support finally arrived it too did so in much less strength than they'd wanted to send. So the cavalry goes back to the rear to rest and resupply and get fresh horses, then the German counter-attack arrives (itself reacting in part to panicked news of a British cavalry breakthrough) and pushes the weakened infantry back out of the wood, they dig in, here come two months of penny-packet grinding so bad that in the next Big Push they get a few of the first tanks. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 14:29
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MANime in the sheets posted:What's this now? 1979 Revolution Black Friday it is a sort of graphic choose your own adventure following the depressing fate of a neutral Iranian student photographer returning hope just in time and more or less being dragged into the event when poo poo goes down. It's made by people who were there or related to the family the events are based on. It's quite good but sadly with these games it is very short. The game itself is only around two hours long but comes with several different branches on how you choose to act in the events. Turns out being a progressive pacifist who wants to protect your family doesn't end well.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:30
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SeanBeansShako posted:1979 Revolution Black Friday it is a sort of graphic choose your own adventure following the depressing fate of a neutral Iranian student photographer returning hope just in time and more or less being dragged into the event when poo poo goes down. It's made by people who were there or related to the family the events are based on. The world needs more games like this, I am going to look this up if it's available in English.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:38
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MANime in the sheets posted:The world needs more games like this, I am going to look this up if it's available in English. It is in English. I would totally be down with most games baised on historical events with grass roots level research and involvement though.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:39
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/k/ is hardly less racist/less pro-putin than /b/ or /pol/. Those guys are obsessed about keeping their guns to defend against UN/"chimpout"/muslims or at the very least home invasion (by black people, ofc).
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Mar 3, 2017 14:42
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SeanBeansShako posted:1979 Revolution Black Friday it is a sort of graphic choose your own adventure following the depressing fate of a neutral Iranian student photographer returning hope just in time and more or less being dragged into the event when poo poo goes down. It's made by people who were there or related to the family the events are based on. Huh. I once got the chance to talk to a dude whose grandpa was the Shah's personal photographer, and fled Iran in the nick of time. (Kind of an interesting mix of an impartial "the Shah was an rear end in a top hat" and a more personal "the Shah was really nice to grandpa, and the Shah's family even came to his funeral") I'll have to try to get back in touch with him and see what he thinks of this game.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:47
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I have played it and its quite good, For anyone who is interested it is available right now on steam and for a steep discount of 60%. http://store.steampowered.com/app/388320/ Its a pretty good VN game in how it sets its atmosphere in terms of just the air of urgency and violence throughout the game, i appreciate the fact that its not really possible to win so to speak, its just a matter of surviving as well as you can. Its not really a game that teaches you the facts of the revolution but it does do a great job of capturing the feel of it in my view.
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Mar 3, 2017 15:00
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Ensign Expendable posted:Go on. In nutshell: there are a lot of ethnic Russians, and some non-Russians who are sympathetic to Russia who live in the Baltics, and a lot of those are the "angry young men" as discussed above. Putin has a lot of appeal to them; not that they're necessarily pro-Russia or disloyal (some are of course, but most aren't), but the mere fact that they identify strongly with Putin's particular brand of politics is what is concerning. Having a small but very vocal, very enthusiastic, and very visible pro-Putin presence in a state with very high unemployment rates among young men is a situation ripe for exploitation by the very advanced and capable Russian information operations machine. Good old fashioned sexism is playing a role also: two of the Baltic presidents are female (Grybauskaite is a hardass but still a female). This plays into the over-the-top misogynism the Political Alpha Male relies on. Also, NATO sucks now so that's a whole other issue.
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Mar 3, 2017 15:28
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aphid_licker posted:^^^ Yeah I was thinking of radio and that "Der Führer über Deutschland" airplane campaign when I thought that he'd be into twitter. you grossly over estimate the intelligence of the American people
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Mar 3, 2017 15:39
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I finally played an Assassin's Creed game and now I want a 30YW AC where the actual assassin dies and the assassin guild has to pay a landsknecht to finish the job who just goes running into target's houses and chucking them out of windows with zero grace or skill.
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Mar 3, 2017 15:46
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spectralent posted:I finally played an Assassin's Creed game and now I want a 30YW AC where the actual assassin dies and the assassin guild has to pay a landsknecht to finish the job who just goes running into target's houses and chucking them out of windows with zero grace or skill. replace landsknecht with pirate and that's pretty much what AC Black Flag is
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Mar 3, 2017 15:47
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spectralent posted:I finally played an Assassin's Creed game and now I want a 30YW AC where the actual assassin dies and the assassin guild has to pay a landsknecht to finish the job who just goes running into target's houses and chucking them out of windows with zero grace or skill. Just play Mount and Blade Bannerlord Coming 2017
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Mar 3, 2017 15:52
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HEY GAIL posted:i remember reading people from stormfront You, uh, ... had a habit of reading Stormfront? 
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Mar 3, 2017 16:11
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aphid_licker posted:I did not realize that, I just sort of assumed that it went the way spectralent described, sorta off color humor shock crap reinforcing itself and increasingly you can't talk to normal people anymore and the "ironic" part of your ironic racism is sort of fading away. Stormfront isn't just a bunch of 50 year old racists with beer guts. There is quite the younger population there and I wouldn't be surprised at all if there wasn't a pretty natural overlap of their younger edge and the 4chan shitlord crew. THere's nothing about being young that makes it impossible for you to be a racist. Hell, the most eye poppingly earnest racist I ever met was a 25 year old guy. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 16:13
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feedmegin posted:You, uh, ... had a habit of reading Stormfront? I do an annual Stormfront binge. Helps remind me that yes, these people do exist. Ironically, it's a fairly diverse place. Uniformly vile as hell, though.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:20
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my dad posted:I do an annual Stormfront binge. Helps remind me that yes, these people do exist. Ironically, it's a fairly diverse place. Uniformly vile as hell, though. Do they still have a poetry sub-forum? I'm not going to look for it on a work computer, but I used to find that pretty hilarious back in the day, back when neo-nazis were some weird dying subculture, not the terrifying future.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:25
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Eh, I'll just make this a new post, too long for an edit the other thing to remember is that "racists" isn't just a monolithic block. Sure, if you go onto some mainstream stuff like Stormfront you're going to find a pretty generalized hate for anything that isn't a white Protestant male, but that's the end point for the community. It's really, REALLY loving easy for example to find young people in the south who are all in all pretty chill with black people and latinos (at least the American citizen ones) but who think muslims/arabs (which are essentially the same thing in their minds) are subhuman scum. Can that lead into more generalized racism? Certainly. If you hate arabs and end up talking a lot with other racists because if it that can move on to a generalized belief that white people are just plain superior to everyone. The reason I bring this up is that I think a lot of people have this general view that racists are somehow this monolithic other that is simultaneously ignorant and stupid but also running society. They're neither. For every guy marching with 5 of his buddies in KKK bedsheets with a CSA battle flag there are thousands that have just absorbed generally unfavorable opinions of a specific race, religion, whatever and who can be convinced to at least acquiesce with some pretty ugly poo poo. The other thing is that casting it in those light inevitably involves assuming that because you aren't nodding along with some Youtube grand wizard you aren't racist. It's REALLY easy to sit back and look at the most flamboyant examples and assure yourself that you're not doing any of THAT poo poo, when the reality is that just about everyone has some deep seated bias or prejudice that we're barely even aware of. We're talking the kind of poo poo that you absorb from the culture you're raised in before you're out of grade school.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:25
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Mr Enderby posted:Do they still have a poetry sub-forum? I'm not going to look for it on a work computer, but I used to find that pretty hilarious back in the day, back when neo-nazis were some weird dying subculture, not the terrifying future. Ask me again in (checks calendar) two months or so. 
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Mar 3, 2017 16:27
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feedmegin posted:You, uh, ... had a habit of reading Stormfront? God, I have read a LOT of stormfront. When you're interested in historical fascism and the way that race and race-driven conflicts have hosed up the world it can be a loving fascinating place. Plus, if you post a lot on the gun message board on a comedy forum it can be a great place to find humorous fodder for your fellow left-leaning 20-something gun nuts. Great example: a bunch of years ago, maybe around 2008 or 2009 there was a batch of Israeli K98k mausers that got imported. Brief history lesson: The IDF used K98ks for a long time in the 40s-60s. At first they were getting WW2 surplus (which lead to hilariously ironic star of daving acceptance stamps next to swastika acceptance stamps) but later on they were having FN in belgium make them new production on the old tooling. Cool old guns if you're into that kind of thing. I've got a Nazi/IDF K98k. TFR was in love with them for a good period because of that amazing historical irony. Anyways, where as our little group of gun nuts was tickled pink by them, Stormfront was loosing their loving minds. Why? Because a bunch of them, as can be expected, were way into Nazi guns and they were insanely concerned with buying replacement parts and getting Israeli ones. Big threads about how to identify "jew gun parts" and how to keep your German rifle "pure." A bunch of them were going off about how they were going to boycott a bunch of gun part stores because they couldn't get a guarantee that they weren't carrying Israeli parts. It was loving hilarious.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:31
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Cyrano4747 posted:the other thing to remember is that "racists" isn't just a monolithic block. Sure, if you go onto some mainstream stuff like Stormfront you're going to find a pretty generalized hate for anything that isn't a white Protestant male, but that's the end point for the community. It's really, REALLY loving easy for example to find young people in the south who are all in all pretty chill with black people and latinos (at least the American citizen ones) but who think muslims/arabs (which are essentially the same thing in their minds) are subhuman scum. Can that lead into more generalized racism? Certainly. If you hate arabs and end up talking a lot with other racists because if it that can move on to a generalized belief that white people are just plain superior to everyone. Speaking of this, does anybody know how racism (as we would understand it) goes from "I'm Prussian, and those Swabians are jerks" to "I'm German, and those Swiss are jerks" to "I'm white, and..."? I know it's happened, but I have no idea how it happened, especially since there are parts of the world in which one of the first two is still the norm. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 16:41
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Davin Valkri posted:Speaking of this, does anybody know how racism (as we would understand it) goes from "I'm Prussian, and those Swabians are jerks" to "I'm Irish, and those English are jerks" to "I'm white, and..."? I know it's happened, but I have no idea how it happened, especially since there are parts of the world (Middle East, Balkans) in which one of the first two is still the norm. It helps when you think "nationalism is something that happens to other people" like you apparently do. One of the things I'll never forget is a Dutch dude telling me "I can't be nationalist, I'm Dutch." and seeing nothing weird about his statement.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:46
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my dad posted:It helps when you think "nationalism is something that happens to other people" like you apparently do. One of the things I'll never forget is a Dutch dude telling me "I can't be nationalist, I'm Dutch." and seeing nothing weird about his statement. Ah, sorry! I realized that sounded weird after I posted and edited it. I know that kind of nationalist thought happens in the US. EDIT: And you're right, I hadn't thought about nationalism as an explanation, but that only seems to explain the first step. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 16:48
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Cyrano4747 posted:Because a bunch of them, as can be expected, were way into Nazi guns and they were insanely concerned with buying replacement parts and getting Israeli ones. Big threads about how to identify "jew gun parts" and how to keep your German rifle "pure." A bunch of them were going off about how they were going to boycott a bunch of gun part stores because they couldn't get a guarantee that they weren't carrying Israeli parts. It was loving hilarious. Now I'm wondering how they'd even determine that. If you put a German barrel on an Israeli-stampled gun, is that barrel tainted now? This feels like a Ship of Theseus situation.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:50
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Davin Valkri posted:Speaking of this, does anybody know how racism (as we would understand it) goes from "I'm Prussian, and those Swabians are jerks" to "I'm German, and those Swiss are jerks" to "I'm white, and..."? I know it's happened, but I have no idea how it happened, especially since there are parts of the world in which one of the first two is still the norm. It's all about being pissed at the other and redefining who your in-group is. There's a steady expanding of the in-group that happens partially because of the birth of nationalism and partially because it becomes easier for people to move around and communicate further than the village or region. Really, that's a chicken/egg thing though.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:57
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Fly Molo posted:Now I'm wondering how they'd even determine that. If you put a German barrel on an Israeli-stampled gun, is that barrel tainted now? Well, the ones that they were most concerned with were getting spares that had actually been produced for the IDF. There was a point by the 50s and 60s where they were contracting with the belgians to make new guns and parts, and those were the unequivocally "jew gun" parts that Stormfront was losing their poo poo over.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:58
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Davin Valkri posted:Speaking of this, does anybody know how racism (as we would understand it) goes from "I'm Prussian, and those Swabians are jerks" to "I'm German, and those Swiss are jerks" to "I'm white, and..."? I know it's happened, but I have no idea how it happened, especially since there are parts of the world in which one of the first two is still the norm. Well you can probably dig up parallels to modern racism across a lot of ancient and non-western cultures, but I'd say it arises in the Iberian Peninsula in the fifteenth century. Portugal and Spain had a pre-existing racial caste system, which marked those with Moorish or Jewish ancestry, and barred them certain positions. You combine that with big colonies in the new world, and a source of slaves from contact with West African rulers, and the logic of modern racism develops. Black people can be enslaved, because they are somehow different from white people, and a fundamental level. The rigidity of racial hierarchies become stronger through the Enlightenment, because you have to explain why you are withholding from blacks the same rights you are giving lower-status whites.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:00
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