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CottonWolf posted:If they're Beato's accomplices, you get a different situation. Presumably they've (by which I mean the Sumadera's) threatened the safety of the off-island family members of Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Kyrie. They're put in a position where they have to kill everyone on the island so Ange can inherit the money, and they, by proxy, can get it through threatening Ange. It's been said and implied several times that Beatrice already has the gold. Do you think that's true, and if it is, why are the murders necessary when Beato could just give the money to the Sumaderas?
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Mar 2, 2017 14:34
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 October 4th, 1986, 11:47 PM  BGM: Voiceless  "You don't?! Everyone was killed!! By that drat geezer! Who was saying something crazy about Beatrice's resurrection ceremony or whatever!!" "So, by now, 13 people have been offered as sacrifices, and it's already time for Beatrice to revive, right?" "Sure, that sounds great!! I'll find Beatrice too and kill them both!!" "...We've survived the ceremony. So, we'll receive an invitation to the Golden Land from Beatrice. Over there, all wishes will be granted. If having your family killed is painful, then you just have to resurrect them. That's what I plan to do. I'll revive the really nice real Mama, the one that isn't possessed by the black witch." "...So Mama will always be with me. There won't be any more overtime or working on days off. She'll always be with me, and think only of me, kihhihihi, and she'll always fight against fearsome enemies for my sake. Kihhihihihihihi...!" "...There's something wrong with you. Why are you saying something so incomprehensible in a situation like this...?!" "...Didn't Kyrie just tell you, Battler...? Didn't she tell you... to believe... in the witch?" "...Sh-poo poo. This is no time to get in an argument with you over something like this...!! Now, there are no hostages or anything... anyone left alive! This weird, lovely ceremony game is already over...!!" "Let me do what I want now. Someone might still be alive. Or someone might be hiding! I'll search everywhere, find them, and beat the poo poo out of them!!"In a rage, Battler grabbed his hat stand spear and flew out of the room. Maria watched him go, looking bored... "...Even though Beatrice will grant our wishes soon anyway... Stupid Battler. Kihhihihihi." BGM: Play Maria stood up and grabbed the receiver.  "Uu-. Hello... Uu-?" "Uu-!!!"Of course, the sound of the phone also reached Battler's ears as he was about to dash out of the house. With a violent forcefulness, he turned around and dashed into the cousins' room... "M-Maria...! Who... was the phone call from...?!"With a terrifying look on his face, Battler yelled at Maria, who was on the phone. You couldn't blame him... Right now, the only humans left alive on the island were himself, Maria, Gohda, and Kumasawa. But there was no way those two could call after being locked up in the gardening storehouse. Which meant... there was only one person left. It had to be Kinzo. After continuing her pleasant chat with the person on the other end of the phone for a while, Maria slowly turned to face Battler. ...Then, with an unsettling expression on her face, she laughed 'Kihihihihihihihihihi'. It felt almost as though the person on the other end of the line was chatting about Battler.  "Maria, who's on the phone? Grandfather...?!"Battler couldn't imagine that this was the case. After all, it was inconceivable that Maria would talk intimately with Kinzo, and that she would be chatting about Battler with that eerie smile on her face. So just what kind of person could be on the phone... who could make Maria chat with a smile like that? At that time, in the back of his mind, the words Kyrie had spoken to him drifted up.  "Yeah. Battler just came back. He sure is jumpy. Kihihihihihihihihihihi..." "Maria!! Who's on the phone?! Who?!?!" "...Hand it over? Sure. Here, Battler."After getting the consent of the person on the other end, she held the receiver out to Battler... "...Nng." "Here."Maria held the receiver out for him to take, as though it was perfectly normal. Battler hesitated just a little bit before taking the receiver. After all, by accepting the existence of the person at the other end, he'd have no choice but to acknowledge them. ...As Kyrie said... There is no longer... any need... to doubt that they exist.  As he did, Maria briskly left the room. Battler, who was a bit scared to find out for sure who was at the other end of the receiver, questioned Maria before taking the call.  "H-Hey! Where are you going...?!" "To where my test is. I wonder who the next Ushiromiya Family Head will be, Battler or me. Kihihihihihihihihihihihihi." "...D-Don't go!! You'll be killed!!" "I won't be killed. The ceremony is already over. And even if I'm killed, I'll be revived. Whether one of us becomes the Head or not, we've already been invited to the Golden Land. See you." "Wait!! Maria...!!!"Battler stretched his hand out to Maria's back as she left, but the cord of the receiver that he was gripping stopped him, just like a chain. He readied himself. Battler put the receiver to his ear...  "...H-Hello...?"  Video: Congratulations!BGM: Happy Maria!Screwed up, mocking English filled his ears. It was the voice of a woman he didn't know. Who was it...? The inside of his head was starting to freeze up... Who was it...?  "What do you mean 'Who is it?', Ushiromiya Battleeeeer...? Normally, you'd answer <yeees, I'm fine>! Right?? That takes me back, you do that one in middle school, right? That thing you do in pairs! Uhhyahyahyahyahyahyaaaaahh!!!" "Y-You're insane... Who are you?!! Answer me!!!" "Say it in Engliiish. Isn't that your specialtyyyyy?" "...D-Don't gently caress with me... Who are you?!! An underling of that drat geezer?!" "Underling is a mean way to say it, is it not? At least say prisoner. And Kinzo is my prisoner! Riiight? Wahhahahahahahahahaha..."That last laugh didn't sound like it was aimed at Battler. It was almost as though Kinzo was right next to the phone, cackling as well... "...S-Say your name!! Who are you?! Who?!!!"  "I seriously waited a thousand years for today, get it?? I owe it to you! My big resurrection!! <Thank you>, Kinzo! Just for you, I'll lend an ear to that last 'I'll take that move back' of yoours!!!" "...My, my, aren't you getting a tad too excited? Couldn't you act a bit more ladylike?"Kinzo and Beatrice sat facing each other over the chessboard on the reception table. There was expensive cheese and snacks to go with drinks. And there were several empty wine bottles lined up. As Beatrice rolled around on the sofa in an unseemly way, she happily held a wine glass in one hand... and was probably completely drunk.  "I'm in the beeest mood today, so here's a huge bonus for you!! Hey, hey, Kinzo, don't use Chateau Petrus as a decoration! It's from 1947, right?! If you don't open it today, just when do you plan on opening it?! Let's drown ourselves in it and plaaaaaaaaay! Then let's whack each other with the empty bottles! Uhhyahhyahhyahhya!!" "Hahhaha, how amusing. You're too excited. And you're letting loose too much." "And what about you, Kinzoooooo?! Aren't you happy to be reunited with meee? Ah, it's the living world! The earthly world!! Long live my flesh!!" "<Ye-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeess, I aaaaaaaaaamm>!! Thanks to Kinzo's 13-person murder ceremony, I've finally been resurrected...!! It's nice having a mouth, it's nice having a tongue! How fun it is to be able to talk to you like this! Come to think of it, even though we slapped each other with abuse so many times, over and over again, this is the first time we've had a conversation like this on the board during the game, isn't it? How very fresh!! Oh, did you hear that *pop* sound just now?! He opened it, he seriously opened that Chateau Petrus!! Do you know how much a single bottle costs?! Almost as much as a whole 10 kilogram ingot, you seeeeeeeeeeee?!?! Hii-hhahhahhahhahha!!" "C-Cut the crap...!! Beatrice...?!! The Golden Witch, you say?! Give it a rest!! Where are you?! Is that drat geezer with you too?! I'll beat the poo poo out of both of you!! Where are you now?! Answer me!!" "Oh, so you want to meet me? Uhhihihihi, it's tough being such a popular woman! But please, don't try to chat me up when Kinzo's around, okaay? This guy gets seriously jealous, so he has a bad temper, you see? ...But when Kinzo isn't around and we're all alone, I'll love you all ya want in secret, okay...? Uhyaaahhahhahhahha *giggle*giggle*giggle*giggle*!!!" "Y-You're insane..." "How fickle. So, are you saying you'll do Battler's test?" "Nothing wrong with that, riiight?! That guy's so much like a younger you that it makes my heart race." "Don't worry, I won't cheat on yooooou. This'll be the only time I'll be alone with him. I'm always alone with you in bed, riiight...? But no more tying me to the bed with a collar, 'kay? Kuhhyahhahhahahahahaha...!!!" "Battleer, make sure you try seriously hard in this test to become the Successor, okaay? I mean, Kinzo's practically dead on his feet. If you become his successor, you'll be the new owner of everything on this island. If it's you, I wouldn't mind becoming all yours, see...? Rule over me just like Kinzo did, 'kay...? Kuhhihihihihihihihi, uhhyahhahhahahahahahaha!" "Th-The front entrance of the mansion... Perfect...!! You drunk bastard!! I'll sober you up. I'll fix that hangover with a burning punch!! Prepare yourself!!"Battler impulsively slammed the receiver down. There was no need to talk through it anymore. I'll meet her face to face and settle this!!  BGM: Scar Sound ...It's hard to imagine that the young woman calling herself Beatrice is waiting for me alone. I should probably assume that, as Gohda-san and the rest said, she'll be waiting with supporting troops. Going alone would be too reckless...  I headed for the gardening storehouse first. I need all the help I can get. Gohda-san is big, so I can probably count on him for some firepower. Kumasawa's knowledge and familiarity with the terrain as a senior servant might become a huge weapon. Both of them have master keys, and they know more about the mansion than I do. They'll be pretty reliable allies. As I banged on the shutter and called out for them to open it, I remembered that there was nothing they could do from the inside. I would have to get the key back from them before opening the door. I rounded the corner, knocked on the small latticed window there, and opened it. "Gohda-san, Kumasawa baa-chan...! It's Battler...!! Hey, come on, get up, h...ey..."The scene in the shed, lit by a dim lightbulb, was very... strange... "...Gohda...sa...n... Kumasawa...sa...n..."From a low ceiling beam... hung two thick ropes, and at the ends... Gohda-san and Kumasawa-san... were hanging... by their necks...  BGM: Dead Angle ...But when they showed not even a tremor after I called out to them, and because of the way the loops around their necks seemed to carry the full weight of their bodies, I could sense no trace of life from them... "You've gotta be... kidding me, right...? Why...?"The shutter was still closed. And there was only a single key, which had supposedly been given to Gohda-san. So how had the culprit... opened the shutter and killed both of them inside...? No, wait, they weren't necessarily killed... If this is a suicide... That way, this closed room makes sense, but I don't know why they would hang themselves and commit suicide...!! Feebly, I slumped down on the spot. Now, the only humans alive on this island... are me, Maria... and that drat geezer. No, there's also that insane woman calling herself Beatrice... There's Maria, who had acted like the witch's ally from the beginning. And that geezer, the ringleader who revived the witch. And... the witch herself. ...What the hell. By now, I might as well be... the only one on this island... Using my pole as a cane, I feebly rose. drat, I can't do it like this... I've got to avenge... everyone...  Might as well cry while I can... So that my frail emotions will be squeezed out with my tears... Then, I straightened up and gazed into the darkness in the direction of the mansion. ...At the entrance to the mansion, the witch is waiting. I'll go... and settle this. I'll find the source of this weird, insane night... and crush her with my own hands...! Amidst the pouring rain, I walked through the rose garden without an umbrella, letting myself get soaked. I could see the arbor on the other side. According to Jessica, it seemed that George-aniki had also been killed... Well, by this point, there's no need to worry about the lives of any hostages. I left the path, aiming for the arbor. Then, I saw George-aniki's weather-beaten corpse... "...Aniki... poo poo..."The corpse was in front of the arbor.  BGM: Voiceless If he had died under the arbor, he might have at least been spared being beaten down upon by the rain... In Aniki's forehead was a gaping hole, as though he'd been shot with a gun. Perhaps because the rain had washed everything away, his face wasn't covered with blood, so he looked almost like he was sleeping. However, his clothes were stained a deep red, and there were still signs that a large amount of blood had flowed out... How happy I'd be if he were sleeping, or else pretending to be dead... But even though the rain sprayed against Aniki's eyes, they remained open. And... the hole in his forehead was no joke, but absolutely real... There had been a faint chance that even Gohda-san and Kumasawa-san hanging by their necks in the gardening shed had been them playing a bad joke. But that naive possibility had now been completely denied. And, as I looked at this corpse, I became completely sure. Just as Gohda-san had once said. The enemy had come to take lives like pieces on a chessboard.  "...Aaaah, there's no mistake. It seems that old geezer and the witch... really don't view our lives as anything more than that..."...That drat witch said something over the phone... Something about us being 'on the game board'... "...Perfect... I see, she thinks this is a game... Then, if you killed everyone like it was a game, it's okay if I kill you all like it's a game, right...? Prepare yourself, Beatrice..."The lightning caused the mansion's vast shadow to rise up. Finally, the mansion.  ...According to Kyrie-san, there were massive amounts of attendants with goat heads. At least for now, I couldn't sense a large group of them hiding and staring at me... What's this...? Beneath the roof of the entrance, there's something set down.  It looked like the kind of small box that girls often keep trinkets in. Or maybe it was the same kind of extravagant cigar case you'd find in a reception room. Either way, it didn't look like something that should be here... It clearly looked... as though I was being told to open it. But for some reason, opening something being offered to me was irritating. However, it didn't look like we'd get anywhere if I didn't open it. Could it be that it's set up with some trap to make it explode when opened...? Thinking things like that, forgetting even to come under the overhang, I continued to glare at the box, still beaten down upon by the rain. Then, mixed in with the thunder... was some kind of... music? It sounded like that. It was the tone of the big clock in the hall announcing 24:00. It was also a sound announcing that this insane day, October 4, had finally ended, and that the much more incredibly insane day of October 5 had begun. That sound quieted, and I could hear an eerie laugh coming out of nowhere... I got the feeling that the voice was coming from the heavens, and I looked up at the sky.  Yes, in the portrait inside the mansion... The clothes were different, but that face was just like the witch of the portrait... Aaah, who am I kidding, I already know who this person is...!!  BGM: The Candles Dance  From the second floor balcony, leaning out under an umbrella and waving high-spiritedly, was, without a doubt, the witch of the portrait, Beatrice...!! Was the plan for the boss to take a birds-eye view and let the goat underlings torture me to death...?! I adjusted my grip on the spear, and, imagining goats creeping out of the nearby shadows and the entrance and surrounding me, I raised my guard in all directions...  "Ahhaha, be at ease, there's no one here but you and me, see? No goat furniture, no demon butlers or Teacher, not even the demon who's my close friend. And, there's none of the gold butterflies that compose my flesh, no magic circles, and no summoners as witnesses!! Do you know what that means?" "No clue. Quit babbling..." "It is true that I have met you several times even in this world. Almost as though we just missed each other. As you know, this world of Humans is filled with a toxin just by your existence and your doubting of me. Almost like solid ramparts strengthening the guard around you, the king! And through multiple games, I have advanced pieces one by one, split them apart, and cornered them, leveling your ramparts bit by bit." "As long as you stay on the black squares, a bishop on black can wield a massive influence, but if you escape just one step to a white square, even if I close in right next to you, I will not be able to touch you. That is why I have progressed through this game by sending in various pieces to prevent you from staying on a white square, forcing you out in front of me, the one who controls the black squares next to you. Howeeever!!" "A rook plus a bishop. Is this what you're trying to say? That now, you not only control the black squares that are part of the illusion of the witch, but have been able to eat into the white squares of the human world at will...?!" "That is correct!! You have been calling the squares with the gold butterflies that are my minions 'the Illusion of the Witch', and you have denied them as unobserved unrealities, right...? *cackle*cackle* I know...!! For that very reason, I have openly descended to the white squares like this!! Do not worry, I'll call plenty of gold butterflies and goats, demons and witches later! If you wish, I'll invite you to the Golden Land!! There, any wish can be granted...!! Wahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha...!!" "...It's starting to look like someone knocked an ink bottle over the chessboard of this island." "I see, a pleasant phrasing...! *cackle*cackle* Soon, you will be covered in ink as well. You will finally become covered with pitch black... and will surely become a black king...! You really are pitiful, drowning in a sea of ink right now, aren't you?" "No, that's wrong. I'll admit that the island has been stained completely black from your ink bottle, but there's still a white square left." "Hoh, where...?!!" It's strange... Until a second ago, I was shivering all over. But now that she's appeared openly right before my eyes like this, my terror has actually lessened. Interesting. Ghosts are most terrifying when you can only sense them. When you can see them, and they have a face you can plant your fist into, there's nothing scary about it...!! ...However, she definitely isn't an interesting or a friendly person. She can kill me instantly by snapping her fingers while rolling around giggling. Whether we interpret the result of her snapping her fingers as magic flying at me or underlings showing up to shoot me, it doesn't matter. Anyway, whether this is fantasy or mystery, that queen is in a position where she can kill me by just snapping her fingers...! 
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 14:34
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Mar 2, 2017 15:07
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It's time.  Also I'm gonna go ahead and request a video of the phone call specifically. Yes, I know the back end of episode 4 is pretty much all videos all the time. Still, though.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:48
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oath2order posted:Also I'm gonna go ahead and request a video of the phone call specifically. Yes, I know the back end of episode 4 is pretty much all videos all the time. Still, though. I was considering it when I posted the update. I'll do it later if I get a second on that request.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:49
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I will do it. Beatrice sounds her hammiest.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:50
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Consider it done.
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Mar 2, 2017 15:51
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Yep. ProfessorProf posted:
Mmmhmm. ProfessorProf posted:
Well, she's dead. ProfessorProf posted:It looked like the kind of small box that girls often keep trinkets in. Or maybe it was the same kind of extravagant cigar case you'd find in a reception room. Either way, it didn't look like something that should be here... It clearly looked... as though I was being told to open it. But for some reason, opening something being offered to me was irritating. However, it didn't look like we'd get anywhere if I didn't open it. Could it be that it's set up with some trap to make it explode when opened...?    ProfessorProf posted:Yes, in the portrait inside the mansion... The clothes were different, but that face was just like the witch of the portrait... Aaah, who am I kidding, I already know who this person is...!! OK. The person is far away, so at this point pretty much anybody could be dressed up as Beatrice. Probably someone female. Most likely not Kyrie since he'd recognize her voice, assuming it was the same person talking on the phone. As for the locked room, since the servants were accomplices, whomever they were accomplice to just knocks on the door, gets let in, murders them, strings them up, and leaves, locking the door behind them. (Or just strings them up, I guess, but it's probably easier to murder and then hang.) tiistai posted:It's been said and implied several times that Beatrice already has the gold. Do you think that's true, and if it is, why are the murders necessary when Beato could just give the money to the Sumaderas? I don't actually buy into the Beatrice/Sumadera theory, but I can provide a couple of potential explanations for this anyway: 1) Gold is hard to move. They need to get the Ushiromiyas off the island so that they can get the gold out without having a bunch of crazy jerks with guns interfere with operations. 2) She doesn't possess the gold in the eyes of the law, so just claiming it is difficult even if it could be arranged logistically, since Krauss (or whomever) could sue.
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Mar 2, 2017 16:45
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It is a little difficult to accept that the Sumaderas are the main actors. Kyrie seems legitimately estranged from her biological family. So that hypothesis is out of the running for me as well. However, that's not the same as saying that Kyrie is totally innocent of whatever actually happened. If she has a motive, it would be most likely in support of rudolf, ange, or maybe battler.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:32
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That was a really tense update that's probably leading to the finale of this first game, after all this wacky Dragonball Z fighting in the what I'm really excited for is Beatrice and Battler screaming at each other some more. This almost feels like Episode 1 again without all the Shadow Realm Battler and Beatrice debating each other, in that nothing is in red so it really solidifies the feeling that none that Dragonball Z poo poo matters or even happened.
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Mar 2, 2017 18:52
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Underneath all of that bravado (helped by loads of well-aged wine), what is she hoping Battler will do?
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Mar 2, 2017 18:58
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Yeah. I mean, the Sumaderas seem like good candidates for wanting money and had the means to set up those envelopes and the safe rooms with the money, but... why would they share the money with people who don't know about the arrangement, even if they promised to? Besides, they were introduced too late in the story to be in any way believable or satisfying as the culprits. It'd be just as much of a kick in the gut as having Battler pulling a Vince McMahon at the end, in terms of cliché predictability (besides, that kind of bit relies on someone else to pull the reveal on, and who else is even available at this point?) But, given that Battler is now talking to an individual who is clearly female, that puts a hole right through a lot of my theories, as the only man on the island who can pull off looking female is Kanon. Every one else is too tall or broad, and of the women, Kumasawa is too old and Maria is too young too look like Beatrice, even from the distance Battler sees her...
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Mar 2, 2017 18:59
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:It is a little difficult to accept that the Sumaderas are the main actors. Kyrie seems legitimately estranged from her biological family. So that hypothesis is out of the running for me as well. However, that's not the same as saying that Kyrie is totally innocent of whatever actually happened. If she has a motive, it would be most likely in support of rudolf, ange, or maybe battler. Yeah, I'll admit there are gaping holes in it. I just can't see Shannon/Sayo being the murderer either, mainly because George keeps dying, so I'm really just reaching for an alternate theory. Interesting note from episode 2, which I found while slowly prepping my 'everything we know for sure' post - Beatrice (whoever she is) has to be on the island. She says in red at one point, "The letter I gave to Maria and the one Rosa opened are the same thing!". Which rules out an off-island Beatrice, unless there are multiple "Beatrices". tiistai posted:It's been said and implied several times that Beatrice already has the gold. Do you think that's true, and if it is, why are the murders necessary when Beato could just give the money to the Sumaderas? I'm not sure we have any evidence it's true. The only times "gold" actually appears that I can remember are: Krauss' gold bar scene with Natsuhi. The first twilight of episode 2 where 3 gold bars are found. Episode 3 with Eva and Rosa. Krauss' gold is irrelevant, unless Natsuhi is the killer. Episode 3 proves that the "gold" exists, and the epitaph genuinely does lead to it. So the rub becomes two things. 1. Is the gold real gold? I think that the answer to that probably has to be yes. In the post-Rokkenjima world everyone is suddenly massively rich, so even if it's not gold per se, a vast fortune of some kind exists. 2. Is the gold that was found in the second episode real gold, and if so, is it Kinzo's gold? We have no evidence either way on that front. We know the perpetrator, whoever they are, has access to a vast amount of money before the murders. Either because they already have access to the gold, or because they're independently wealthy. So in some sense, the existence of 3 gold bars is irrelevant information when you already know that the killer has access to huge funds, because there's no way of determining between "These three gold bars are part of the Kinzo's gold stash that the killer has access to and uses to fund their nefarious activities" and "The killer has access to large amounts of money to fund their nefarious activities and to that end had 3 gold bars forged to look like Kinzo's gold bars". The first makes sense if the point of the murders is some emotional motive such as revenge. It's an intimidation strategy. The second makes sense if their goal is to get hold of Kinzo's fortune. They want to convince the family that the gold is real, so they'll solve the epitaph, and the gold can be claimed somehow once the relevant people are dead. resurgam40 posted:Yeah. I mean, the Sumaderas seem like good candidates for wanting money and had the means to set up those envelopes and the safe rooms with the money, but... why would they share the money with people who don't know about the arrangement, even if they promised to? They're basically the mafia. And for all their failings, the mafia tend to keep their end of the bargain in fiction, even if it turns out to be a deal with the devil type situation, where you get exactly what you were promised, which may not have been in any way what you wanted. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 19:00
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You're forgetting the obvious true answer. Beatrice is the Golden Witch and created those gold bars using alchemy. 
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Mar 2, 2017 19:34
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resurgam40 posted:But, given that Battler is now talking to an individual who is clearly female, that puts a hole right through a lot of my theories, as the only man on the island who can pull off looking female is Kanon. Every one else is too tall or broad, and of the women, Kumasawa is too old and Maria is too young too look like Beatrice, even from the distance Battler sees her... I can't believe Amakusa time traveled from the future to become Beatrice in the past to get over how he's never going to get in Ange's pants...
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Mar 2, 2017 20:22
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alcharagia posted:I can't believe Amakusa time traveled from the future to become Beatrice in the past to get over how he's never going to get in Ange's pants... It was clever of Ryukishi to foreshadow that by making Amakusa's theme "Monochrome Clock"
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Mar 2, 2017 20:48
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Tender Child Loins posted:Underneath all of that bravado (helped by loads of well-aged wine), what is she hoping Battler will do? There are really only two possibilities. She's going to test him, she said, so either she hopes that he'll pass her test, or she hopes that he'll fail it. I don't think the possibility of him taking a third option has occurred to her.
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Mar 2, 2017 21:03
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Added to previous update: CONGURATUREISHION!!!
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Mar 3, 2017 02:57
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ProfessorProf posted:Added to previous update: CONGURATUREISHION!!! It is even better than I imagined, holy crap.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:21
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ProfessorProf posted:Added to previous update: CONGURATUREISHION!!! 
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Mar 3, 2017 04:47
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Yeah, that there is... that there is Ur-Beatrice, and I think I am leaning a bit more to the steam translation (I've thought it unnecessarily crude in the past, and I guess I still do, but that translation is on point, here). This darn mystery. It ate up a whole chunk of my time today at work, because something I wrote niggled at me and I found myself reviewing large portions of the thread to refresh my memory... I'm not going to get into it tonight because today was long and I'm dead on my feet now, but I have a new new theory on who Beatrice is, formed as usual by hearsay, circumstance and my own weird ramblings. Will probably wait until the next update, because those have ways of flipping things on their head.
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Mar 3, 2017 05:02
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resurgam40 posted:Yeah, that there is... that there is Ur-Beatrice, and I think I am leaning a bit more to the steam translation (I've thought it unnecessarily crude in the past, and I guess I still do, but that translation is on point, here). ...It probably would be splendid, if you could shoot through the truth with a single guess. But, that isn't realistic. Look at real wars. Do they really have everyone pull long guns out of the trench, aim reeeally well, and take shots at each other one at a time? They don't, right?! They fire rapidly, they fire all over the place, they pin down the enemy with a barrage! Reasoning is the same way. Because of that weird virtue, you've been stuck thinking it's better to take one line of reasoning at a time. We humans can fire off countless guesses and possibilities! The bullet is the power of imagination. Suspension of thought is a clogged barrel...! The pathetic way you've been reasoning up until now is like a peashooter. You've been so lame, weakly firing off shots, getting them denied in red, and then taking the next bullet and reloading. Your 'blue truth', which claims that humans and tricks are what's real, will overpower its target, the illusion told by the witch, with its firepower and the force of what I can imagine...! This is your... Resurgam40-style way of fighting...!
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Mar 3, 2017 05:51
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tiistai posted:It's been said and implied several times that Beatrice already has the gold. Do you think that's true, and if it is, why are the murders necessary when Beato could just give the money to the Sumaderas? I'm starting to seriously think that the murders were not about the money. That the money was only useful to the culprit insofar as it could be used as leverage over the others on the island. Kind of like Ange's relationship to money: flippant and utilitarian, since she has a much deeper and more impossible desire driving her.
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Mar 3, 2017 08:58
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So... Battler only heard Beatrice over the phone, right? Meaning that there's still nothing that could conclusively deny our theory that Kinzo's been dead all along, and thus that there might be an additional person on the island. From the metatextual point of view Kumasawa's, Gohda's Jessica's and Kyrie's testimonies pretty much must be disregarded as coming from either accomplices or forced under duress because they all state that magic exists. Which also means that the only 100% confirmed casualties at this point are two servants in the shed and George.
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Mar 3, 2017 11:32
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Either or both Gohda and Kumasawa could be alive. You can protect your neck with something small enough to fit in a collar and you hang from a rope for a real long time, as still as you like. George is more likely dead, though the hole in his being so clean could mean he died from some other cause first. Beatrice is conveniently far away and high up at night, so saying she's got "the same face as that witch in the portrait" seems hard to be sure of, unless it's what Battler is expecting to see.
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Mar 3, 2017 11:44
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 BGM: Scar Sound  "Wait. After all that's happened, I'm not interested in some stupid game about who'll become the Successor." "My game is to take you and that drat geezer... and all of you guys who killed everyone... and smack 'em with a Gian punch. One of those face-crushers." "Hoh. So, you will fly through the air up to my balcony? Very well, very well, *cackle*! Then, look, come on right now, here here, up up!" "...drat you, acting so carefree just because you're in a completely safe place... I'm coming over there right now, so prepare yourself and wait for me!!" "Aah, no, no. The door is locked. Of course, the shutters are down for all the windows. My castle isn't so fragile that a single knight like you could break in!"I tried opening the door to the entrance anyway, but it really was locked. When I looked around, I noticed that the shutters were closed on the windows after all. Normally, those wouldn't be closed.  Gohda-san and Kumsawa-san probably had master keys, but they were in the closed room of the gardening shed. I can only give up for now...! "drat... Guess she's no fool herself." "Do you really want to be right beside me so muuch? All right, if you impressively pass your test, why don't I grant you an audience? If you pass, then you'll become the Successor and my new master. My flesh and soul will be yours to do with as you please. For I am no more than the Ushiromiya family's furniture! Ahhahhahhahhahha!!" "...Well, it looks like you want to make me take this test no matter what. Okay. I'll give it a shot. If I pass, my first prize will be a punch to your face." "Scary, scaary... But it's not like I mind being controlled by violence, you see? Grab onto my head! Make my face twist in pain, tear me apart like a hawk does with its talons to its prey, scratch at me and trample upon me...!! Aaah, remind me of Kinzo in his younger days once more...!! That single time in my thousand-year life! Remind me of that day I was taught the joy of being controlled, surrendering and being reduced to furniture!! Uhyaaahhyahhyahhyahhya!!" "...You drat drunk, we aren't getting anywhere."Ignoring the stupidly smiling witch, I picked up the box. "Yes. Open it. Inside is a letter. Read it." "..."I opened it. There was a faint smell of cigarettes. Apparently, it really had originally been a cigar case. But there were no cigarettes or cigars inside. Instead, there was a Western envelope with the One-Winged Eagle crest. And when I opened that too, there was a letter inside. I looked up at the witch. She was grinning down at me. It seemed she was looking forward to seeing what kind of reaction I'd have to the contents... drat, just perfect. Its contents were something like this... Among the three mentioned below...  BGM: Melody (instrumental) "...What's this? Some pretty creepy stuff's written here. More importantly, the second one's blank, so I don't even know whose life it's supposed to be." "Indeed. That second one is where you put the name of the one the test-taker loves the most. For Jessica's test, it was Kanon's name, and for George's test, it was Shannon's. Since they had obvious feelings for certain people, those names were written in beforehand, but I don't know whom you have feelings for. So I didn't know whose name to write and left it blank." "That's perfect. I love you, Beatrice. I'll stick your name in here. In that case, I'll choose the second choice. Happy now?" "Hey hey, quit joking, quit joking. Heey, please, Battler. Tell me the name of the person you have feelings for. If you don't, then this won't be a test, right?" "Sorry. I don't have any girl in particular. Even if I did, why the hell would I tell you?" "In that case, this test will not work for you. Hmmm, what a shame, what a shame. And I was really wondering what kind of woman was your cup of tea! *cackle*cackle*!" "...What would you do if I said I liked flat-chested lolis with long, black hair? That wouldn't match you at all, right?" "Lies, you breast sommelier! Blonde and bouncy is best, right? Am I not truly the embodiment of your ideal, *cackle*cackle*!" "If guessing your bust size is the test to become the Successor, I'll take it gladly." "Ah, yes. This was the test to choose the Successor, wasn't it? It was so fun chatting with you that I've been getting a bit off topic." Video: Battler's SinThe witch, who had been joking around like she was drunk until a second ago, suddenly regained her dignity. She looked as though she truly had stepped out of that majestic portrait...  BGM: Sukashiyuri  "...Do you have the qualifications to inherit the Ushiromiya family and all of my gold? That is what I will test. State your name." "...Ushiromiya... Battler."When faced with a dignity you wouldn't have imagined from her appearance a short while ago, I answered without any hesitation. And from that... yes, I see, I can tell why she's worthy of calling herself the true queen of this island. "Very well, Ushiromiya Battler. However, for these six years, you have thrown away that Ushiromiya name, have you not...? Why was that...?" "...Nn... Because I ran out of love for that old bastard." "I know. It was because you felt that your father's remarriage disgraced the death of your mother, whom you respected, yes...? I see, you have no blood relation to your new mother whatsoever. It's not as though I can't understand why you'd be unable to accept that mother. However, no matter whom your father remarried, that wouldn't change the fact that his blood runs in your veins, correct?" "...What are you trying to say?" "I can somewhat understand the childishness that led you to resist your father's remarriage, since you wanted him all to yourself." "However, was throwing away the Ushiromiya name as a means of resistance not a disgrace to your family and blood? You were born and raised Ushiromiya, were you not? Do you think you had the right to forget that debt and throw away the Ushiromiya name?" "...It's got nothing to do with you. This is between me and Dad...!" "The Ushiromiya name does not belong to you and your father alone. That was your childishness, nothing more than your inability to forgive the fact that your father was stolen away by an unknown woman. Those six years during which you threw away the Ushiromiya family register were a significant period during which you covered the Ushiromiya family in mud. Know the depths of that sin." "...Well, sorry I'm so childish..." "However, even though it occurred around the time of the deaths of your grandparents, you did well to return to the Ushiromiya register. For that, let us give you a chance to purify that sin yourself. Now is the time to compensate for your sin of six years ago." ...At that time, a massive thunderclap rang out, making my mind go blank. "...What do you mean, repent? Are you trying to tell me to apologize?" "...The test has already begun. You may think as you wish."The witch's expression did not look like a person forcing a tough question on someone and sneering at them. She was asking seriously, and he could even sense a quiet determination. Even though the rain fell on Battler, he did not shift his eyes from that gaze. The witch threw her umbrella away. She abandoned herself to the falling rain. So that the rain would fall on her until Battler answered that question. She had chosen to let the rain fall on her as well until he reached an answer. For some reason, Battler understood that. And yet, he didn't understand.  "...I hear that Dad always kept on paying for my living expenses... and that he even said he wanted to participate in school events. The only reason he couldn't come... was because I told Grandpa and Grandma not to let him come, no matter what..." "..." "...I-It's true that... I can't argue back if you wanna call that my childish resistance. But you know, in that case, who would clear away Mom's... Ushiromiya Asumu's regrets...?! Even though Mom was so devoted to our family and did the very best she could...?!" "Despite that, Dad was cheating with Kyrie-san. He even got her pregnant with Ange...! And then, along with her birth, he rushed to move them into his register." "...If that wasn't a betrayal of Mom, then what was it?! Who... will clear up... Mom's regrets?!! But what you're saying is also right. Even though the cheating was a fact, the debt I owed for being raised was real too." "In that case, they cancel each other out, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with me leaving the family, is there?!! That's right, I had the right... no, the duty to smack Dad in Mom's place, didn't I?!" "But I didn't do that! I left without saying anything, as though I hadn't been there in the first place!! And Dad forgot all about me and started a new family with Kyrie-san and Ange! Doesn't that settle everything?!!" BGM: Worldend (solo) Kyrie-san understood my anger, and even so, she tried to interact with me, even if it meant tearing her heart apart. Ange didn't know anything about the situation, and even though I lived in a separate house, she was raised believing that I was her real big brother and loved me as if it were true. Dad casually said to come home any time I wanted. "It started to feel more and more ridiculous!! I thought it was about time for me to cool my head as well. So I said I'd put it all behind me as long as Dad apologized. Then came the day of Grandpa's funeral! Then, he really did put his hands on the floor and apologize...!! Looking unbelievably pathetic...! Dad did that and seriously bowed his head to me, you see...?! When I saw that, it felt like it'd be stupid to keep it up any longer. I'm sure Mom thought the same thing! Every time Dad and I fought, Mom would always laugh and mediate for us. 'Oh, were you fighting over something that silly?' is what she'd say. I could feel Mom saying that and laughing...!!" "So, though I couldn't actually say I'd forgive him, I thought it might be okay to start over again from square one. So I decided to wind everything back to how it was six years ago. Then, I returned to the Ushiromiya family register...!! I'd also cried, raged, and worried for a whole six years! It might've been the same for Dad... and for my dead Mom. Maybe even for Kyrie-san and Ange. So we went back to square one, and I returned to being Ushiromiya Battler!!! That's my immediate family's problem... and has nothing to do with the Ushiromiya family!!" "You have no right to judge that as a sin, and I have no obligation to show repentance to you! If there was anyone I should've done that for, you've already killed them!! So I won't apologize for anything! I won't repent!! That's my answer for this test!!!" BGM: None "What...? ..."Part of me had fully responded to her provocation, and I'd supposedly vented out all the stuff I'd kept inside my chest, stuff I hadn't wanted to show anyone. That was what the witch had supposedly been expecting. And yet, the witch's blank expression didn't change in the slightest. I'd been sure she'd start cackling and guffawing, sneering at my childish, foolish, and shameful past. But to the contrary, I could feel a sense of disgust about her, something you could almost call disappointment. "...What do you mean 'Is that all?', I've exposed everything about me, right? What more could you want?" "Atonement? What the hell, are you asking me to prostrate myself right here and apologize like Dad did...?!" "...That's not it. I have no interest in matters concerning your immediate family or your home. Where are we? Rokkenjima. The main residence of the Ushiromiya Head Family. Isn't there a sin you ought to remember, fitting for this place...?" BGM: 599 Million Ruins "...Remember, Ushiromiya Battler. Not being able to remember that is your sin. For that reason, I shall forgive you. If you can remember it, I shall forgive you. Remembering that is my test of atonement for you." "...Even if you... tell me to remember..." "Sorry, Beato. I have absolutely no memory of it." "...You make it sound like I caused you trouble six years ago or something, but I supposedly met you for the first time at this family conference. It's true that your legend also existed six years ago, but I shouldn't have been acquainted with you." "...Naturally. On the Rokkenjima of six years ago, I had not yet materialized." "Then what kind of sin are you saying I have? Are you saying... I've sinned against you somehow...?" "Don't make me say the same thing twice. I had not materialized six years ago. There was no way for me to become acquainted with you. In the world that you are, it was as though I didn't exist."...Beato's cold eyes... felt as though they were pursuing some kind of sin. At a glance, it felt as though she still hated me for something I'd done to her... and that she blamed me for it. However, I naturally didn't have a clue, and Beato had said it herself. Six years ago, there was no link between us.  "...At least give me a hint. Does this sin... have anything to do with you and me...?" "I had no connection to you six years ago. Remove me from your thoughts already. Why... do you think it is a sin against me?" "...Your... eyes." "My eyes...? ...Hoh." "Because... your eyes are whispering at me to apologize. But I had no connection with you six years ago, and it looks like you acknowledge that too." "...Is that true? Is it really not a problem between me and you...?" "...I already said it wasn't. No problem between me and you has anything to do with this." "But still, your eyes are telling me differently. So I don't even have a clue." "...Can you say it in red? Can you proclaim that the sin you're telling me to remember isn't something between you and me?" "...Very well." "...Then... why are you looking at me with those eyes...?" "I don't know. I am simply gazing at you blankly. If it feels that way to you, perhaps there's something making you feel that way." "...What kind of sin are you saying I have?" "Ushiromiya Battler has a sin." "...And I'm asking you what kind. I'll bet it's just some trivial sin, like hitting someone or tricking someone." "Because of your sin, people die." "L-Liar...! I've never killed anyone...!! Then say it! Who did I kill?! When? Who? How?!" "Due to your sin, a great many humans of this island die. No one escapes, all die." "...Wh-Whaaaaat?!?! Wh-What kind of incomprehensible thing are you saying?! Are you saying I killed everyone?! I'm a killer?!" "It doesn't mean you carried it out directly. However, because you committed a sin, from an imperfection in the cogs that stretch back a full six years, a distortion was created, and tonight, this many lives are lost." BGM: Fishy Aroma "...Qu-Quit messing around!! I'm the cause?! Then what?! Are you saying 13 people died because I abandoned the Ushiromiya register six years ago?! Are you saying that 13 people died because I came back to the Ushiromiya family after six years?!" "Don't gently caress with me, give it a rest!!! For these six years, I've been the man farthest from the Ushiromiya family, right?! How could I have influenced anything in any way?!" "It's not like I came to the family conference because I wanted to, right?! I'd returned to my family after six years, so to make up for that lost time, I came to Rokkenjima reluctantly...!! It's not like I had some duty to come here today!" "I came back, and because of that, a massacre occurred? Then what?! Are you saying that if I hadn't come back, no one would've had to die?! Say it in red!! Can you say in red that, if I hadn't come back, this massacre crime wouldn't have occurred?! There's no way you can say it, because you're the culprit for everything!!" "...Can't do it, can you? You can't say it! The culprit is you, not me!! Don't try to rub that responsibility off onto meeeeeeee!!!" "..." "...Answer in red!! Try to repeat it...!! You can't! My existence has nothing to do with the crime." "Quit saying incomprehensible stuff and trying to confuse meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!" ...The rain earlier had just hurt, but now I felt a tormenting cold from those raindrops... "...Is there nothing that you remember?" "...Sorry. I don't even have a clue." "..." "...Hey. I'm starting to get a little pissed off. If there's something you wanna say, then say it. If you have a grudge against me. you just have to say it out loud. Don't do it in such a dirty way, forcing me to remember." "...I'll ask one more time. Can you remember any sin?"  BGM: Soul of Soul   "...I-Indeed..."Even a hopeless bet can leave behind regrets if you do not take it. That's enough. The betting itself has meaning. "...That may be true. In that case, this is... the end of my regrets... and my game."What will you do...? "...Who knows. I'm not interested at all anymore. Sorry, but I wish to leave the game board now."...I see. I understand.   "...Indeed. ..." "...I'll be counting on you... to finish up the rest."  The witch who had questioned Battler hid herself, and the other witch, who had appeared from behind, remained. She certainly was identical, the same witch, but her expression was somehow indifferent and ice-cold, completely removed from the one who, despite seeming drunk up until then, had been in high spirits.  The witch did not answer. Her eyes were as ice-cold as Battler's shoulders. She was now clearly a different person since the time she'd first appeared on that balcony. The witch gazed into my eyes... and gave two small shakes of the head. Even without words, I was able to gather that she was expressing some kind of disappointment... Without saying anything, the witch turned on her heels. After that, only Battler remained, the cold rain still beating down on him...  It seemed that Gaap was making fun of Virgilia, having tripped her up in some stupid way. They were spitting 'Lialialia' and 'Gapgapgap' at each other. With this as a sideshow, Kinzo and Ronove had opened a new bottle.   "Maria's test got passing marks with no complaints, you see? I've despised her as a little girl, little girl, but see, but see, why, why, oh my, oh my, not bad, not bad! Wahhahhahhahhahha!!"It seemed like Kinzo was dead drunk. Facing Beato, who had returned, he laughed with the same level of tension as the time they'd left for the tests. However, Ronove and Virgilia instantly noticed the change in enthusiasm. Gaap also froze her expression and went silent.  "Wahhahahahahahhahha, what is it, Beatrice, my beloved witch? Not enough to drink? Not enough on the side? Let's pour it all over a cow or something and roast it whole, ooh, not bad!" "Ronove, prepare one right away! Beatrice, let's leave the results of Battler's test for later. Why don't we have a toast with spare rib first, uwahhahhahhahhahha!!" "...Roast yourself whole." "-hahhahhahha... what?"The witch, who had spoken bluntly, coldly passed by Kinzo's side as he doubled over laughing in a great mood. Then, behind the witch's back, the old summoner's body suddenly went up in flames...  BGM: Witch in Gold (cembalo) As crimson flames spat from his eyes, mouth, nose, every hole on his body, Kinzo rolled around. Even though it was a terrible hellfire, it didn't burn anything except Kinzo. Kinzo didn't have a clue what was going on. Unable to understand why Beatrice, who had been in such a good mood, had suddenly turned so cold, he rolled around... The dancing silhouettes of the witch and demons created by that massive rolling torch... looked like a group of excited spectators around a burning at the stake. However, the eyes of the demons who watched over it were indifferent... When Kinzo finally stopped moving, the fire disappeared, leaving a pitch-black corpse. The inside of the room was commanded by the stillness of the sound of the rain...  "I've gotten over... my excitement. Clean up those bothersome cinders."Beatrice's expression... was unbelievably indifferent. There was an iciness that might easily bring the others to the same fate as Kinzo if they annoyed her.  "...Y-Yes. I will clean it up..."Gaap made a jet-black pitfall swallow up Kinzo's cinders. If she hadn't carried that out quickly, Gaap might also have been burned. You could even feel that thirst for blood. No, a thirst for blood probably isn't the best way to describe it. Just like humans don't have any particular emotion when they step on an ant while they're walking... That was how much, unconsciously and mercilessly, Beato was now filled with a brutal emptiness that wouldn't hesitate to bury a passerby...  "I don't want to answer. No, even answering is too much of a pain to do now." "...What is it? This isn't like you. Did something happen? Did Battler say someth-" "...ack, gah, gyah-"Beatrice didn't even answer. It seemed that she even ignored it. But there was a change in Gaap. From her feet, a creaking, cracking sound rose, like thin ice breaking, and in an instant, turned Gaap into a glass sculpture.  "...G-Gaap..." "...Disappear for a while. I'm in a very bad mood."Beatrice spoke that... in a truly cold voice, which could freeze the heart just by hearing it.  "...Certainly. Then, please allow us to retire. If you need anything, call at any time."After bowing, Ronove turned into a cloud of gold butterflies and hid himself. After turning Gaap, who had become a sculpture, into a cloud of gold butterflies, Virgilia also turned into a cloud, which mixed in with the others and disappeared.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:26
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ProfessorProf posted:As crimson flames spat from his eyes, mouth, nose, every hole on his body, Kinzo rolled around. Even though it was a terrible hellfire, it didn't burn anything except Kinzo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsKCU5ll3D0
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Mar 3, 2017 17:23
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ProfessorProf posted:
Okay... Okay. So Battler was given a test, and, incompetent that he is, chose poorly. Beatrice- both the Purgatory player, and the individual on the balcony- were obviously searching for something from Battler in particular, and didn't get it. They were not satisfied by his answer, because Battler can't remember what he did. And from the way Beatrice, that magnificent ham with a thousand expressions, cuts all her emotion off as if with a faucet the minute Battler makes clear he doesn't remember, I know that this is it: this is where we've been going all along. It has nothing to do with fulfilling Kinzo's curse, nothing to do with killing Ushiromiyas, nothing to do with gold, nothing to do with accepting anybody as any stupid witch... it's all about getting Battler to remember his "sin." What sin? What could a 12 year old do that was so bad it resulted in a lot of murder and death? I don't know, but I do know that the crux of it is forgetfulness: that Battler knew somebody, or did something to somebody, on this island and forgot about it over six years- years that were hallmarked by a parents death and family drama, so maybe it's to be expected. Okay, but who could that be? Because Battler's memory of rthe people on this island seem solid enough: there's the adults and the cousins, who Battler gives a little spiel in his head about what he remembers about them, and anyone he doesn't remember introduces themselves. No matter how you look at it, there's nobody who fits the template of wanting to be remembered and not getting that. Except one. ProfessorProf posted:
I had forgotten this in the midst of all of the other character introductions and how we were all embroiled in the Let's All Hit Maria About The Head party a short time later, but... isn't Kanon's introduction weird? Like, really weird, in comparison to everyone else's? Because they all give a warm and full introduction to Battler and indicate that they remember him if they do, but Kanon's, in comparison, is like pulling teeth. The characters (and the audience, too) put it down to a reticent nature, informed by an idea swiftly acquired afterwards that Kanon hates being a servant for these awful people, but bearing this scene in mind... it does awfully seem like Kanon is fishing for something, doesn't it? Like he was expecting Battler to do something, to recognize him as somebody else, to trigger a memory... and was disappointed when that didn't happen (and deeply unbalanced, what with the whole tripping-up-the-wheelbarrow and watching-from-the-bushes-enigmatically things...) None of the other introductions produced that feeling of unrequited longing or deep, sudden mystery; we had to dig a little bit before their deep and ugly secrets started spilling out. And befor one of you clever clogs fires up your keyboard to tell be that Kanon wasn't around six years ago, I draw attention to what Jessica says in this very scene, and I quote: ProfessorProf posted:It seemed that he wasn't refusing to greet us out of spite, but rather, he gave the impression that he had no choice but stay silent, not knowing what to add to his greeting. "He's been working here for three years"... Not that he wasn't here before. And that's leaving behind all of the hinkiness already discussed about "Kanon isn't actually his real name"... Is it not conceivable that Battler did know him on the island under a different name? And that this sin he wants Battler to remember is that Battler forgot all about him, and a possible promise between them, and knew him not? And of course, this thing led me to another realization, just sitting there all lah-dee-dah unnoticed (so far, I think, apologies if this isn't the case):  When, exactly, in the entirety of EP1, does it say that Kanon died? In either the story, or the profiles? Because it doesn't say so here, just that he was found... and rereading the chapter, it just says he "did not regain consciousness"... meaning, what, that he was in a coma? That the doctor declared him dead, and locked him in a room? Where have we seen that before? And how is that the same as a death confirmation? So... if what I have said is true, then that fills a lot of holes, doesn't it? On the first night, he killed the six and locked them in the shed, painting the lines, and "discovering" them, since he was the one who first broke the garden shed story to Genji. There is no "supernatural" explanation for the "two who are close" because that entire narrative from the servants perspective is now suspect, because literally anything could have happened before Natsuhi came in: if he wanted (and if he had at least one accomplice among the servants and Nanjo; I suspect Kuwabara), Kanon could have knocked on the door, killed Eva and Hideyoshi, closed the door, locked the chain, cut it from the inside, open it again, and draw the lines. And now the boiler room is solved too, because Kanon could have put Grampy's body in the furnace possibly around when he prepared the shed, and when he and Kuwabara rush down to investigate, he could have stabbed himself in the chest, pulled it out, got Nanjo to give a false diagnosis (or Nanjo just made a wrong one), get left alone in a room, and proceed from there. Then he can just take his sweet old time putting his face on while everyone gets good and freaked in Kinzo's study and his little helper (Kumasawa or Maria) puts down the letter and gets the servants kicked out. Then "Beatrice" shows up in the lovely red dress, tells Maria to go to her happy place, then pops Genj, Nanjo and Kuwabara at once before retiring upstairs, and challenging Natsuhi to a duel. Ep2 happens with Kanon as a rogue element who killed Jessica, so there's nothing wrong with the story of him showing up and murdering the servants, and then pissing off into the darkness; he remains unaccounted for the rest of that story, so he could have been anywhere and done anything unseen for the rest of that story. In the 3rd episode, he could have been "declared dead" again by Nanjo, and given the weirdness of Kanon not being his name, Beatrice can say that "Kanon is dead" and mean it, leaving him to do everything that Evatrice doesn't do, like kill Nanjo. And Ep4, he's offscreen the entire time, and could be running around doing and killing any old thing. ... Ok, yeah, I only did the first episode to my satisfaction, later on I'll look at the other episodes and think of any challenges that are doubtlessly coming. But this feels right in a way that the other theories don't, to me. I need to think about this more. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 17:24
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"...Good afternoon."
"Ok then, nice to meet you. I'm Battler! I'm 18, how old are you?"
"..."
"Um, uhh...! If I remember correctly, he's two years younger than us so,...sixteen, right?"
"Heh he~, I'm glad you're about our age! Just be cool and call me Battler! And I'll call you Kanon!"
"...Thank you very much. But just the sentiment is sufficient, Battler-sama."
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Battler forgot he promised to go to Tokyo U with Beato 6 years ago, obviously.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:31
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Choice quotes:ProfessorProf posted:
I think this is the most detail we've ever gotten about Beatrice's MO, and it also answers questions I've had about why Battler in particular is positioned as her opposition/savior. It's not because he's some paragon of rationality—he most definitely isn't—but because Beatrice wants him to understand the nature of her existence. Because the person behind the mask—which seems to have been crafted to please him—just wants to be seen by him. You could also argue that she wrote the message bottles for the same reason: to be acknowledged, to have people know that she existed and that she suffered. Another interesting tidbit of information here is that, even though Beatrice purports to be 1,000 years old, she did not "materialize" until six years ago. Until Battler did something to Sayo that was so offensive that it caused her to disassociate so hard she created an alternate witch personality who could speak to all of the feelings that she couldn't comfortably express. So what did he do? If Beatrice is a split personality of Sayo/Shannon, I believe the answer is in episode 3. ProfessorProf posted:
This isn't some throwaway line. If this is literally the last thing Battler said to Shannon before he left the family, she'd been waiting for him for six years. She loved him, but couldn't be seen. BTW, this is nice.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:41
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"Well, your memory's great, after all. You remember the kind of things Battler did and said back then pretty clearly, don't you?" (Ed. note: Could he be any more oblivious?)
"Let's see... I'm sure that he said something like this when he left. 'I'll be back, <see you again>. I'll surely come for you riding a white horse'."
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Man, there is just SO MUCH to unpack here, after several less serious updates. Let's look at Battler's sin, since it is clearly important.ProfessorProf posted:
Six years ago, Beatrice didn't exist. Six years ago, there was no murder plot, and the forces that would ultimately come to be Beatrice The Witch hadn't yet materialized. But the people on the island, those are mostly the same. The person or people who would eventually act as Beatrice existed more than six years ago. Battler has missed the implication here. ProfessorProf posted:
Here it is. I think we've been aiming at this for a while. I believe it goes like this: whatever Battler did six years ago, it either directly caused, or at least allowed, for the creation of the Beatrice persona, and because of the creation of that persona, the murders happen. Without someone "becoming" Beatrice, those murders never occur. Beatrice didn't exist six years ago, but Battler did something, and now Beatrice exists. Because Beatrice exists, the murders occur. None of that is magical; Beatrice, after all, is fundamentally a human, a part of a human, or a conglomeration of several humans. Whatever Battler did made this happen; we know that, since it's been said in red. And it's outside of the realm of the game, so it's probably the same across all games. But what could it be? What did he do then, apart from leaving the family? ProfessorProf posted:
I've been mulling it over for a couple hours, and all I have is: he stopped coming to Rokkenjima. Why was he supposed to come to Rokkenjima? ProfessorProf posted:
His atonement here is to remember his sin. Which means his sin must be fundamentally about forgetting something. He was supposed to come back to Rokkenjima for some reason, but he forgot about that reason and stayed away. What was it? I don't know. There has to be some clue somewhere in here about it. I think I'm going to spend lunch re-reading old updates. ...again. Edit: Tender Child Loins posted:If Beatrice is a split personality of Sayo/Shannon, I believe the answer is in episode 3. Huh. That could well be it. If Shannon is the one that's been dressing as Beatrice (and I still believe it is generally her)... It would explain so much. She's stuck as a servant on this island and he's off gallivanting around doing God knows what. Maybe even George is just a cheap substitute for Battler. It could explain how she involves herself in a plot that might lead to his death, which has always been a problem with her being in on things. It would completely rejigger all the motivations. Edit 2: Yes, Kinzo ended up being burned up again. Three times dead the same way, each way preventing his corpse from being properly examined. This definitely strengthens the dead-all-along theory. Edit 3: Saying things in English is his specialty because he said goodbye to her in English. drat it, I should have caught that. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 17:41
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Allow me to give an idea of what Battler's sin might be. Remember how about everyone on this island is a horrible person, what did Battler do that no one else did? Battler left. Battler showed that it is possible to just leave this horrible family and not have to stay and put up with it. To Beatrice Battle is proof that they didn't have to stay there but they did.
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Mar 3, 2017 18:06
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Odd theory, could it be that Kanon is actually cross-dressing? I'm starting to wonder if cold quiet Kanon is actually Beatrice, which would explain some animosity.
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Mar 3, 2017 18:15
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This puts the whole obsession with sins and their purification that I thought was really weird in the Rosa torture scene into more context too. Beatrice's whole deal is past sins. This is a great spot: Tender Child Loins posted:This isn't some throwaway line. If this is literally the last thing Battler said to Shannon before he left the family, she'd been waiting for him for six years. She loved him, but couldn't be seen. But I actually think that this all makes more sense for either Genji or Kumasawa being the killer. If they see saw something that happened that sent either Kanon or Shannon into deep depression, that might convince them to intervene. I don't buy that Shannon doesn't love George. I don't think anything we've seen suggests that. Kanon is more of a possibility. If he were gay and in love with Battler or if he was in love with Shannon and him being temporarily shut out because she became infatuated with Battler, then George moved in. That could put down some deep seated resentment. But Kanon would have been 10 at the time, he probably wouldn't even have hit puberty yet. Also, why would he have even been on the island? Presumably they don't bring orphans who aren't working as servants up from Fukuein house just for kicks. Either way, I don't get how either of those lead to everyone being killed being the logical end point. "The boy I loved never came back for me" doesn't directly lead to, "I must kill his whole family the next time I see him". I think there's more going on with what happened 6 years, ago. I think there must have been a specific event. Unless this is a "for want of a nail" situation, which is entirely possible, even if it would feel cheap. resurgam40 posted:And of course, this thing led me to another realization, just sitting there all lah-dee-dah unnoticed (so far, I think, apologies if this isn't the case): I thought this when I did my reread, I was going to make that exact point, but then you get this line: ProfessorProf posted:Jessica was crouched in the corridor, crying in anguish. She had probably been taking care of Kanon until the moment of his death. George-aniki tried to approach her with words of comfort, but when Jessica pushed him away, he stopped trying to force her to talk and left her alone. That's as much of a confirmation as you get of anyone's death in episode 1, considering the lack of the red. It's entirely possible he isn't dead, but it's no more likely than any of the people who had their faces fully bashed in. The half bashed faces, are more certain. E: RedMagus posted:Odd theory, could it be that Kanon is actually cross-dressing? This could be a great shout. If Kanon is transgender or just crossdressing, and Battler didn't recognise him at the start because he was dressed as a girl the last time they saw each other it would explain that opening perfectly, especially if there were romantic feelings. Also, it might explain why we've waited so long to get Kanon's real name. It would give it away. The more I think about it, the more sense this makes. E2: resurgam40, I based on what RedMagus' said, I'm more on board with your Kanon theory, but I've still got nothing as to why he'd do it. What's his motivation? That's the stumbling block I hit here. If he wanted Battler to remember something, why not just talk to him. Why kill everyone? CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 18:56
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I can't believe Battler cut in front of Ootsuki in line at McDonald's.
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Mar 3, 2017 19:37
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Shannon still hasn't forgiven Battler for that time he ate her French Fries.
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Mar 3, 2017 19:40
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oath2order posted:Shannon still hasn't forgiven Battler for that time he ate her French Fries. Ba da ba ba ba~ I'm
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Mar 3, 2017 20:53
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Yami no Kirisaku OHH MY FRENCH FRIES.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:09
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Battler's sin is described as a "cog." So it's likely not the sole cause of these events, but simply one of many issues that lead to this.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:45
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Dr Pepper posted:Battler's sin is described as a "cog." Battler's sin is liking steampunk.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:54
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