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Are the rail guns so powerful that they are ripping through the entire ship? You'd think they would bury the command center in the middle to provide some buffer.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:14
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The middle is still very close to the hull in something that's mainly vertical.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:33
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Cojawfee posted:Are the rail guns so powerful that they are ripping through the entire ship? You'd think they would bury the command center in the middle to provide some buffer. Yes, they go all the way through. A tactic in the books is to shoot right through the front from bow to stern and destroy the reactor. Military ships have "we're hosed" sensors that can sometimes vent the core before it loses containment when they feel a hit, but others reliably explode as the fusion reaction escapes.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:33
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Rail guns and point defense cannons turn ships into Swiss cheese. Nukes obliterate ships in a single hit. Materials science has improved, but the overall message of The Expanse is that speed x mass kills. A paper clip traveling at .0001 the speed of light has about the same amount of kinetic energy as a car traveling at 60mph.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:38
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The ships should just be armoured tubes with huge radiators like in children of dead earth with glowing armour from where they got hit. 
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Mar 3, 2017 04:20
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bobfather posted:Nukes obliterate ships in a single hit. I remember some good nerd talk about nukes in space back in the BSG revival days. Nukes definitely need to actually hit and penetrate and explode INSIDE the hull in order to be truly effective. The radiant damage if they detonate on the outside of the hull really isn't so bad - it is the superhot shockwave created by atmosphere that makes nukes so deadly. So the further question would be then; if you have your ship vented with no atmosphere on the inside, how bad would a nuke detonation even be if it went off right inside your ship? Still bad, I'd imagine, but maybe survivable if you've got a huge ship like the Donnager?
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Mar 3, 2017 05:23
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gfarrell80 posted:I remember some good nerd talk about nukes in space back in the BSG revival days. Nukes definitely need to actually hit and penetrate and explode INSIDE the hull in order to be truly effective. The radiant damage if they detonate on the outside of the hull really isn't so bad - it is the superhot shockwave created by atmosphere that makes nukes so deadly. That's an interesting question. I have no idea how badly it'd tear up the hull, but I think the radiation would cook the crew and most of the electronics. You might be (relatively) okay if you happened to be on the other side of a large water tank when the thing went off, but otherwise you're probably hosed, even if the ship is salvageable.
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Mar 3, 2017 05:34
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I think the standard torpedo warhead (per books) is supposed to be a "plasma" warhead rather than a nuke. How much dispersed over how much area doing how much damage to a ship I don't know. One seems to kill or disable plenty of ships, everyone in a particular scene sort of has a "wow, how hosed are they" moment when a ship reports taking three of them in the gut.
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Mar 3, 2017 05:37
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Expanse is definitely happening in a weapons beating armor tech era.
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Mar 3, 2017 05:57
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Snuffman posted:For a show that prides its scientific accuracy, I found the proximity and size of the other Galilean moons in the sky over Ganymede triggering. Same, but also the size of Jupiter in the sky. It should "only" be about 7 times bigger than the Moon from Earth (napkin math), not take up the whole drat sky.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:09
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Fister Roboto posted:Same, but also the size of Jupiter in the sky. It should "only" be about 7 times bigger than the Moon from Earth (napkin math), not take up the whole drat sky. Might they be using a similar camera trick to make Jupiter look way bigger to give a feel for how weirdly big it'd look? (I know the real reason is that it looks cool as heck being that big, and no one but nerds will know the difference.)
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Mar 3, 2017 06:14
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Fister Roboto posted:Same, but also the size of Jupiter in the sky. It should "only" be about 7 times bigger than the Moon from Earth (napkin math), not take up the whole drat sky. Phil Plait says about 15 times the apparent size of the moon, at nearly eight degrees across versus the moon's half a degree. Still, that's just small enough to cover with your palm with an outstretched arm, so waaay smaller than in the show. Edit: I don't think it'd explain this much difference, but do we know whether the moon illusion would be more pronounced with a larger body in the sky?
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Mar 3, 2017 06:18
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Giant Jupiter is rad who cares. I think Io and Europa are close enough it'd be enormous so that's close enough to reality for me.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:23
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Grand Fromage posted:Giant Jupiter is rad who cares. I think Io and Europa are close enough it'd be enormous so that's close enough to reality for me. See: the fun derail about the energy it'd take to knock Eros into the sun, with the conclusion being it wouldn't work at all, but it was loving awesome anyway.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:26
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It seems to me like the moon is shown as being absolutely massive almost all the time in media, so I don't see why Ganymede would be any different than earth in this case!
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Mar 3, 2017 06:48
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The element of tactical surprise has incredible benefit in ship-to-ship combat in this setting. Going into combat already suited up means your crew aren't incapacitated, when compartment start getting vented by railgun and PDC fire. And evacuating your air means less damage from secondary fires and decompression. It's just super uncomfortable for the crew to spend on periods of time in suits, especially when trudging back to dock for repairs.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:57
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Number Ten Cocks posted:I didn't think he was assassinated, just that the setup looked like a bad murder on a CBS show. Shot out of nowhere, camera pans to show shadowy crew member run away from where the bullet originated. It was dumb. I thought it was perfectly clear thatthe captain got killed from a penetrating round (if the sparks and crew dying didn't set it up enough, and also because it's already been established that that is what happens when a ship gets shot at) and the person behind him jerks suddenly as if getting shot, and doesn't at all look like running away. Subyng fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 06:58
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Toast Museum posted:That's an interesting question. I have no idea how badly it'd tear up the hull, but I think the radiation would cook the crew and most of the electronics. You might be (relatively) okay if you happened to be on the other side of a large water tank when the thing went off, but otherwise you're probably hosed, even if the ship is salvageable. Is it ever mentioned how ships in The Expanse handle radiation shielding, both from space itself and from their drives? Assuming that shielding is in the hull, would that be enough to protect the crew from a nuke's radiation?
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Mar 3, 2017 08:45
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We'd mainly be talking about gamma and neutron radiation. Literally anything will stop alpha particles and a ship's hull should be plenty to stop beta. Neutron radiation could make the hull itself radioactive, but they can probably deal with that because it does the same thing to the containment vessel of a fusion reactor and they must have figured that out. Gamma rays from a nuke filter out to nothing in about a mile of air, which is why they're not really considered a danger with nuclear weapons on Earth--if you're that close you're dead for all kinds of other reasons anyway. I do not know how to do the math needed to translate that into water or possible hull metals. It's all a factor of density.
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Mar 3, 2017 08:50
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just by the inverse square law a nuke going off in space distances is going to peter out to very little gamma radiation, nothing that basic ship shielding cant handle i think the problem with the final scene with the ship-to-ship combat this episode is that its directed like a star trek battle, people flailing wildly, sparks going off randomly. contrast with s2e02's climactic battle with just a single pair of ships: you knew precisely where the bullets came from, and the characters went into combat with feet propped up, presenting minimum cross-section for a pdc target
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Mar 3, 2017 09:12
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Amos is so god drat good. The idea that he would try to make it up to Alex by giving him an excuse to punch him tickles me, because of course that's how a guy like Amos apologizes.
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Mar 3, 2017 09:19
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https://fat.gfycat.com/MessyPossibleAmericanlobster.mp4 I disagree. It makes me smile every time I walk past it.
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Mar 3, 2017 10:40
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Phobophilia posted:just by the inverse square law a nuke going off in space distances is going to peter out to very little gamma radiation, nothing that basic ship shielding cant handle Right but we're thinking a detonation right on/next to the hull. Since space is a vacuum a nuke going off at a distance isn't going to do anything to you and can be ignored. I guess it might be useful to blind sensors?
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Mar 3, 2017 10:56
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I don't like Amos and Alex fighting because they are best and I want them to be spacebros.
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Mar 3, 2017 11:10
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That's a good question, a near miss by a nuke in space won't cause massive overpressure wave to ram into your hull, so that remains intact. What happens to exposed components, like sensors, or weapon ports?
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Mar 3, 2017 11:13
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Guys, remember the Cant! What I mean by that is, large ship, atomized by like 3 nukes of undetermined strength. In fact, not only did the nukes obliterate the ship, they phase-changed the massive amount of nearly absolute-zero temp ice to gas instantaneously. Edit: also, I have to imagine that nukes in The Expanse are not designed to explode uniformly in a spherical shape. That would be super wasteful. It's also super wasteful to design a nuke that has to penetrate armor and then explode. We already have the knowledge to build nuclear shaped-charges, so you'd simply shoot one nuke at a ship, which explodes and directs its energy in a forward cone shape towards and through the ship, which destroys magnetic confinement for their reactor (as well as everything else around it) and promptly causes that reactor to go critical and explode in the traditional spherical configuration. Personally, and weirdly enough, I would think a nuclear shaped charge would be the humane way to kill a ship, since volleying slow-relativistic rail gun shots and point defense cannon shots that go straight through ships is asking for collateral damage. Wouldn't those rounds have enough delta v to just orbit the sun, silent, and waiting to ruin some beltalowda's day months or years later? bobfather fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 12:32
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The size of moons and planets depends on the focal length used in the camera or simulated in CGI. Arguing that it's physically implausible is not entirely correct. That said, they've already said before, that for certain things, they'll lend themselves some artistic license. The Nauvoo flyby for example.
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Mar 3, 2017 13:46
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bobfather posted:Wouldn't those rounds have enough delta v to just orbit the sun, silent, and waiting to ruin some beltalowda's day months or years later? I think you mean just "vee" ... as the projectile is no longer accelerating. Yeah, high velocity space debris is quite dangerous. There have been some punctured solar panels in the ISS. If what happened in the movie "Gravity" ever happened or real, that might be the end of human space travel forever.
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Mar 3, 2017 13:50
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bobfather posted:Personally, and weirdly enough, I would think a nuclear shaped charge would be the humane way to kill a ship, since volleying slow-relativistic rail gun shots and point defense cannon shots that go straight through ships is asking for collateral damage. Wouldn't those rounds have enough delta v to just orbit the sun, silent, and waiting to ruin some beltalowda's day months or years later? That is why you check your drat targets! That is why you wait for the computer to give you a drat firing solution! That is why you don't "eyeball" it and shoot from the hip! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v6vNc1Xik0 Corollary: Space is drat big so your chances of getting randomly nailed by a stray round fired years ago are essentially zero. INTJ Mastermind fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 16:56
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I fuckin love this franchise
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Mar 3, 2017 17:18
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Combat Pretzel posted:The size of moons and planets depends on the focal length used in the camera or simulated in CGI. Arguing that it's physically implausible is not entirely correct. The Nauvoo flyby doesn't really count, because that's an example of space being bent and moved in a way that we don't understand or can describe with our current understanding of physics, of course it's gonna look a little strange.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:25
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VagueRant posted:I don't like Amos and Alex fighting because they are best and I want them to be spacebros. If it makes you feel any better, they're drat near inseparable drinking buddies whenever they hit Tycho Station in the books. My nit-picky gripe: I'm really missing Holden's sense of humor. Minor book spoilers (just in case): & his propensity to drop Wikileaks style ""youtube" broadcasts at the drop of a hat.
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Mar 3, 2017 18:07
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They completely changed the way they handled the last PM sample from in the book, right? I seem to recall that they just straight up gave it to Fred in LW. Also on the subject of differences: I like show Avasarala better.
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Mar 3, 2017 18:52
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Is it ever mentioned how ships in The Expanse handle radiation shielding, both from space itself and from their drives? Assuming that shielding is in the hull, would that be enough to protect the crew from a nuke's radiation? They never go into real detail on the nature of the fusion reaction. Anything with deuterium will generate a shitload of neutrons, and for shielding against those you want something with a lot of hydrogen in it. If a neutron smacks into a heavy nucleus it'll bounce off elastically and retain most of its energy, just moving in a different direction. If it collides with something of similar mass, like a proton, it'll surrender a good portion of its energy to the proton and slow down, the proton can go smack into other protons and do the same thing, so everything rapidly comes down to nice slow speeds. Polyethylene, hydrocarbons, things like that are great. So's water, which they're already carrying along for drinking and for reaction mass. There's enough handwavium in the internal design of the ships that you can just figure the water tanks are a layer around the inside of the hull or something. And for big solar flares or the like, they have enough freedom of movement that they could just avoid them because they're not bound to long slow transfer orbits between destinations. Phobophilia posted:That's a good question, a near miss by a nuke in space won't cause massive overpressure wave to ram into your hull, so that remains intact. What happens to exposed components, like sensors, or weapon ports? Near miss you have a tremendous amount of radiant energy pouring out of the explosion, mainly gammas (nuclear transitions), x-rays (bits of bomb that got turned into plasma and are radiating in that spectrum now), and neutrons (directly from the fission and fusion reactions). This is going to be enough to explosively ablate the bits of ship adjacent to the ship, and that explosive ablation will be a remarkably good facsimile of a massive overpressure wave ramming into your hull. I mean, that's what the blast is if you set the thing off in an atmosphere: the radiant energy heats the adjacent air enormously, causing it to explode outwards. Substitute "nearby bits of ship" for "atmosphere," it's going to get really hot from the energy it absorbs and then explode. Granted since that all falls off as r^2, it's got to be a *near* miss, but if it's close enough it'll still be plenty destructive.
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Mar 3, 2017 18:54
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I just saw the new episode. Pretty clear book v show split in the context of the audience reaction Meaning show only peeps are a tad impatient and need to trust the process. Good things will come
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Mar 3, 2017 21:38
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VagueRant posted:I don't like Amos and Alex fighting because they are best and I want them to be spacebros. Them fighting just means they're going to be even closer spacebros, or at least that's what Amos thinks.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:52
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It's pretty obvious that the Martian captain was shot in the back by an assassin. However, upon closer inspection, it appears the assassin was shot as well. Who assassinated the assassin?
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Mar 3, 2017 22:25
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nopants posted:It's pretty obvious that the Martian captain was shot in the back by an assassin. However, upon closer inspection, it appears the assassin was shot as well. Who assassinated the assassin? UN point defence can't melt space mirrors 
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Mar 3, 2017 22:38
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Deimos was an inside job!! Wake up Sheeple!
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Mar 3, 2017 22:47
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nopants posted:It's pretty obvious that the Martian captain was shot in the back by an assassin. However, upon closer inspection, it appears the assassin was shot as well. Who assassinated the assassin? Sir Isaac Newton.
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Mar 3, 2017 22:52
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