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Colostomy Bag posted:Are you talking about the danger zone? What difference would it make if I'm starting at 0 from the freezer or 40 from the fridge? The heat required to change the phase of frozen water from ice to liquid is about 144 times larger required than to raise the liquid 1 degree.
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Feb 28, 2017 19:18
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The dwell time in the danger zone will be much longer with frozen. And i know you are going to say that only the outside has bacteria and that will cook to fast to matter but most pork is injected on an assembly line so internal contamination is a real possibility. Will you get sick from it? Probably not but if the meat is contaminated you stand a real chance of serious food poisoning.
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Feb 28, 2017 20:10
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my turn in the barrel posted:I haven't done much grilling/smoking since last fall but we have had some freaky warm weather in Chicagoland the last few weeks so I decided to do some cooking. Is that the 18" WSM? I'm having trouble deciding whether or not I want the 14" or the 18". Doesn't look like the 14" comes with an ash catcher on the bottom, and I'm worried about lighting my deck on fire.
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Feb 28, 2017 21:50
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They're having an Eggfest in my town in September so I'm gonna put some money aside and try to grab a demo unit
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Feb 28, 2017 21:56
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perabyte posted:Is that the 18" WSM? I'm having trouble deciding whether or not I want the 14" or the 18". Doesn't look like the 14" comes with an ash catcher on the bottom, and I'm worried about lighting my deck on fire. It's an 18 I found for two hundred bucks at Walmart last year. Definitely go with 18 over the 14. I made a 14 out of a smokey joe and it's really small for most bbq items. I posted it in the thread when I made it if you view my posts you'll find it.
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Feb 28, 2017 22:09
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my turn in the barrel posted:The dwell time in the danger zone will be much longer with frozen. Sure thing, and food safety is paramount (especially with poultry products.) Everyone has their own "safety zone" with food temps and food handling. It's not something I take lightly. Big cuts of pork around these parts aren't injected out of the butcher case. Perhaps cryovac ones are. Costco blade tenderizes their steaks. So of course there is a risk for e-coli from that if one simply grilled them. Or you could basically sous vide them and follow the USDA chart for time at temp to kill off the stuff. Anyways, all good. Didn't want to drag latent energy, BTUs, and all the other stuff in regards to smoking a pork butt.
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Feb 28, 2017 22:40
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C-Bangin' it 
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my turn in the barrel posted:It's an 18 I found for two hundred bucks at Walmart last year. Definitely go with 18 over the 14. I made a 14 out of a smokey joe and it's really small for most bbq items. I posted it in the thread when I made it if you view my posts you'll find it. I was leaning towards the 18" anyway. Already have a 22" kettle, and a Spirit 310 gas grill. Figured it would round out my grill collection nicely. It would be the first one I've purchased new though haha.
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Feb 28, 2017 23:46
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Colostomy Bag posted:Sure thing, and food safety is paramount (especially with poultry products.) Everyone has their own "safety zone" with food temps and food handling. It's not something I take lightly. That is not always the case quote:It turns out that a lot of our meat is enhanced. About 30 percent of poultry, 15 percent of beef, and 90 percent of pork are injected with some kind of liquid solution before sale, USDA says, and it's usually something high in sodium. And unless you have the label you can't be sure. even if you have the label you need to watch out as they label it about 15 different ways as detailed here. http://virtualweberbullet.com/enhancedmeat.html Bottom line don't smoke frozen meat. If you absolutely must eat a frozen roast just pressure cook it. Edit: it's also important to know if your meat is injected because brining or using a lot of salt in your rub with enhanced meat will end up with bad BBQ. my turn in the barrel fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 00:33
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my turn in the barrel posted:That is not always the case So you wouldn't cook a frozen turkey?
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Mar 1, 2017 03:54
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Man the bge gets ripping hot the first time I clear out the dust and add new fuel
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Mar 1, 2017 04:26
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Colostomy Bag posted:So you wouldn't cook a frozen turkey? Not without thawing it first.
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Mar 2, 2017 01:36
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my turn in the barrel posted:Not without thawing it first. Agree to disagree then. Different strokes for different folks.
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Mar 2, 2017 04:11
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Regarding the danger zone and cookies temperatures, I have a question that I've never been able to find the answer to. If you get the food beyond the temperature where bacteria are more or less instantly killed, why does it matter how long it spends in the danger zone? If you're cooking a pork butt to 200f it will have been beyond the surviving temperature for several hours. I recall this being drilled into me every time I used to have to take food safety training, but I never figured out if it was simply a matter of insuring against error or if there was a better reason.
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Mar 2, 2017 04:32
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I suppose there's something to be said that if you let bacteria grow to really ridiculous colony sizes by letting food sit in the danger zone, it's possible things will survive. A log 6 reduction means less if you let it grow by a few powers of ten first, right? But I imagine the main reason is the byproducts of the bacteria, ie toxins. Botulism for example is caused by the toxin produced by the bacteria, not the bacteria itself. It doesn't matter if you kill every single bacteria cell afterwards, you're still in big trouble.
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Mar 2, 2017 05:59
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Rescue Toaster posted:I suppose there's something to be said that if you let bacteria grow to really ridiculous colony sizes by letting food sit in the danger zone, it's possible things will survive. A log 6 reduction means less if you let it grow by a few powers of ten first, right? That's exactly the reason. Food poisoning isn't caused by bacterial infection; it is generally caused by the toxins generated in the bacterial life cycle or growth cycle. With limited exceptions, the crazy low ph of your stomach does a good job killing bacteria unless there are a whole lot of them, but it does nothing for the toxins.
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Mar 2, 2017 07:27
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Colostomy Bag posted:Agree to disagree then. Different strokes for different folks. Your username is apt. Joking aside food safety is something you should read up on before you make your decisions. As already mentioned the toxins are what's most dangerous in cooked foods and while most people can take minor food poisoning it can be deadly especially in children, the elderly and those with poo poo immune systems. You may be lucky and have an iron stomach, I once had a roommate who knowingly ate an Italian beef/cheese sandwich that was in the fridge for over a month with no issues. But should you end up sharing leftovers at lunch with a coworker or something like that the story changes quickly. And there are many food safety rules that are hyper conservative like dealing with raw eggs. Unless you are buying them farm fresh 99% of all eggs sold in the US have their shells sterilized and that's where the contamination would be. You can go a bit rare on ground beef as lots of the poo poo in stores now has been treated with ammonia. But cooking frozen/possibly injected poultry is not something that many people would recommend. I did find one source claiming it's ok in an emergency because 2 of the most common bacteria on turkey don't form toxins, but if you end up with different bacteria on your turkey that's going to be little comfort while you expel your soul out of your rear end. http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents2005/turkey-cook-frozen.pdf Edit: the pdf also refers to oven roasting which is likely hotter than most people smoke at as well. my turn in the barrel fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 20:25
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I could use a good colon cleanse
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Mar 2, 2017 21:46
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It will certainly cleanse your intestines of any native bacteria.
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Mar 2, 2017 22:01
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my turn in the barrel posted:Your username is apt. Good joke...seriously. You are fine with rare ground beef even though there are several vectors of contamination after treatment. This basically goes against USDA guidelines for safe temps (after all, it is the bible.) I myself wouldn't attempt it. Like I said, different strokes for different folks. Can someone log temps around every hour when smoking a 9lb or so pork butt. Danger zone is 40-140 @ around 2 hours. I'm going to hazard a guess and say it will sit around 4 hours in the danger zone at 225.
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Mar 3, 2017 03:39
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Colostomy Bag posted:Good joke...seriously. This is why when doing large roasts or butts I never poke/probe/inject right away until like halfway through the cook. I don't want to introduce anything to the inside if it's likely the interior may sit in the danger zone longer than one would hope. Then use a sterilized (with alcohol) probe after the surface has been heated up. This is pretty paranoid though, but I am on immune suppressing drugs.
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Mar 3, 2017 05:09
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Rescue Toaster posted:This is why when doing large roasts or butts I never poke/probe/inject right away until like halfway through the cook. I don't want to introduce anything to the inside if it's likely the interior may sit in the danger zone longer than one would hope. Then use a sterilized (with alcohol) probe after the surface has been heated up. This is pretty paranoid though, but I am on immune suppressing drugs. Normally I use a autoclave, but an alcohol swab will work in a sterile environment.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:10
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Rescue Toaster posted:This is why when doing large roasts or butts I never poke/probe/inject right away until like halfway through the cook. I don't want to introduce anything to the inside if it's likely the interior may sit in the danger zone longer than one would hope. Then use a sterilized (with alcohol) probe after the surface has been heated up. This is pretty paranoid though, but I am on immune suppressing drugs. Alcohol is a lot less effective against gram-positive bacteria, such as shigella. Clean it with fire.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:20
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Or add some bleach to your dish water and wipe the probe.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:39
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Curing my Costco pork belly. I let it reach to temp on my car's dashboard since it was sunny out. In all honesty looked liked a good cut in regards to meat vs fat ratio.
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Mar 3, 2017 06:55
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If you turn on the defroster you will get a convection effect.
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Mar 3, 2017 07:10
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I want to make pastrami and I am looking at this recipe: http://amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/close_to_katzs_home_made_pastrami.html I wonder why stop at 150F and then steam it before serving? Why not wrap it when it stalls and leave it in the smoker until done? So why steam, does it have todo with the fact that it'll be more freshly cooked when serving it to the customer? Can you also make it from chuck instead I wonder? It's cheaper than brisket. Both are expensive AF here, 11.90€/kg for chuck and 14.90€ for brisket from the local butcher. But it's some kind of locally produced (few miles away) ecological/grass fed only catle, not that I care about that very much but its what I can get my hands on. Just happy this place exists or I would have literally 0 places to find chuck, even in the city they don't have it.
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Mar 3, 2017 13:38
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I'm thinking of smoking some wings in the near future. In the past I smoked them and crisped them up on the grill but I'm wondering if I could smoke then deep fry them. I'm not sure if the deep frying would obliterate the smokiness. Anyone in here try this before?
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Mar 3, 2017 14:37
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lifts cats over head posted:I'm thinking of smoking some wings in the near future. In the past I smoked them and crisped them up on the grill but I'm wondering if I could smoke then deep fry them. I'm not sure if the deep frying would obliterate the smokiness. Anyone in here try this before? I've never done it myself, but I've eaten wings that have been done this way and the smokiness remains. And it's drat good.
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Mar 3, 2017 15:21
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I wouldn't think deep frying would remove smokiness in the meat. You're not battering them or anything right?
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Mar 3, 2017 15:27
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Phil Moscowitz posted:I wouldn't think deep frying would remove smokiness in the meat. You're not battering them or anything right? No, just just trying to get them crispier than what the grill has been able to manage in the past. ada shatan posted:I've never done it myself, but I've eaten wings that have been done this way and the smokiness remains. And it's drat good. That's good to hear, I'll have to do this important research myself and report back.
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Mar 3, 2017 15:49
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I've smoked and deep fried chicken in batter and it stays smoky. It's the best of both worlds.
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Mar 3, 2017 16:54
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Momofuku cold smokes then cooks on a griddle. Deliciously smokey and good.
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Mar 3, 2017 17:56
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Colostomy Bag posted:Can someone log temps around every hour when smoking a 9lb or so pork butt. Danger zone is 40-140 @ around 2 hours. I'm going to hazard a guess and say it will sit around 4 hours in the danger zone at 225.  The side I am more worried about is when you pull a dozen pounds of pork and put it out for people to eat. It sits for an hour or more at room temps and people want to take the leftovers home. Make sure you reheat the poo poo out of it and don't blame me if you get sick, but take all you want because I am not going to chance that.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:06
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CapnBry posted:The side I am more worried about is when you pull a dozen pounds of pork and put it out for people to eat. It sits for an hour or more at room temps and people want to take the leftovers home. Make sure you reheat the poo poo out of it and don't blame me if you get sick, but take all you want because I am not going to chance that. Again, I will show my ignorance hoping to be educated here, but you're pulling off 200F meat that would theoretically have essentially no bacteria (which die pretty much instantly past 145f or so) then you're essentially starting from zero bacteria count. Obviously bacteria can be reintroduced once the temp drops below whatever threshold, but I would expect that the number of bacteria would be limited and it would take some time before you had to worry about that? Edit: First smoke this weekend...I think. I've never been so frustrated to have people ask us out for dinner. BeastOfExmoor fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 22:04
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I made fake pastrami before and posted it in this thread. When I did it I smoked it up to 200f and made sure it was tender before pulling it. Then I steamed it to get it to seeving temp before slicing . Not sure if either method is better but it turned ot great when I did it. my turn in the barrel posted:
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Mar 4, 2017 00:11
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So I am about to pull the trigger on my first smoker and have chosen a WSM 18". That part is easy for me as I own 4 more Webber grills of various types and am pleased with them all. I am having a hard time deciding on what to do for a thermometer though. My Thermapen gets daily use, so the ThermaQ seems like an obvious choice, but it's rather pricey and I'm not sure if I want to invest quite that much when I am just getting started. Also it lacks any kind of wifi/bluetooth alarm/logging abilities - although with the extension cables for the probes I could easily keep the base station in my house while smoking something outside. I would definitely trust its accuracy though... Are the other options out there as accurate? How about accurate with more features for less cost (yeah yeah I know). Back before I got my Thermapen I had some bad experiences with cheap digital thermometers so accuracy is huge for me.
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Mar 4, 2017 01:47
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BeastOfExmoor posted:Again, I will show my ignorance hoping to be educated here, but you're pulling off 200F meat that would theoretically have essentially no bacteria (which die pretty much instantly past 145f or so) then you're essentially starting from zero bacteria count. Obviously bacteria can be reintroduced once the temp drops below whatever threshold, but I would expect that the number of bacteria would be limited and it would take some time before you had to worry about that? I think it's safer after the cook because, as said before, the byproducts are the main threat so it's like hitting reset. Also smoking can act as a preservative. Admittedly I'm not an expert on this though.
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Mar 4, 2017 02:00
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Has anyone here used Montreal Steak Seasoning as a rub? If so, what's the verdict? I'm curious to try it on brisket, but it's an expensive experiment...
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Mar 4, 2017 18:34
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Isn't the flavor of that derived from smoked meat aka pastrami? I bet it'd be good you're basically just skipping the curing step.
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Mar 4, 2017 18:35
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Benjamin Disraeli posted:So I am about to pull the trigger on my first smoker and have chosen a WSM 18". That part is easy for me as I own 4 more Webber grills of various types and am pleased with them all. I also just ordered the 18" WSM. Can't wait for it to get here now... I got the Thermopop for an instant thermometer and I love the 3-4 second read times. Decided not to spend 3 times as much on the thermapen for 2 decimal points and a second better read time, and spent that extra money on the iGrill 2 with ambient probe. I seriously love this thing, nice to have a probe in the food and on the grill grate. I considered the Smoke by thermoworks, but ultimately decided on the iGrill 2 because of the ability to monitor more than one piece of meat. I've compared the readings on the iGrill to the thermopop and it's usually within 1 degree. It was spot on when I checked all of the probes in an ice bath though. Now if I can only contain my excitement for my new smoker....
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Mar 4, 2017 19:07
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