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mastershakeman posted:Thanks. I saw the holes but didn't have a screw to put into them. This is why I've always resisted doing household projects - the repeated trips to the store. No, you should stop call an electrician. I'm not writing this to call you an idiot or be mean. If you cannot recognize that trying to ground with a nail, or that the holes for screws should be used even though it's an extra trip, or that flipping off a breaker and hoping for the best is a bad and dangerous idea then you cannot do electrical work in your house. You are putting yourself and your family in danger by doing so. It's fine to not know and read up on Family Handyman's website to learn the right way to do something. It isn't OK to just start and hope for the best. Also, if you take the time to learn and prepare before starting something you will not have repeated trips to the store. You may have extra stuff you didn't need to use and return but you will not have your electrical or water shut off while you make a frantic trip to the store.
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Mar 4, 2017 19:16
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Appreciate the advice, just got in over my head a bit. All is well now. Although the voltage tester I bought appears to be non functional out of the box despite trying different batteries, ha. That being said, why wouldn't putting the ground against the nail on the box work? I had to use a grounding clip because the grounding screws I bought didn't fit the holes in the back of the box ( i assume the box is 15+ years old). So what's the difference in grounding via clip vs the nail?
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Mar 4, 2017 20:16
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mastershakeman posted:Appreciate the advice, just got in over my head a bit. All is well now. Although the voltage tester I bought appears to be non functional out of the box despite trying different batteries, ha. For starters, one well-placed whack near that box will shake that ground loose, a nail driven into sheet metal has barely any mechanical fastening going on.
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Mar 4, 2017 20:22
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Raised by Hamsters posted:Yeah, it's a wee little microwave but I'll run a 20 for it. Yeah, hood and range are what I'd do. Fridges usually only pull 6 or 7 amps, they'd be fine too. Not sure what the rule is, but I've always used a counter outlet circuit for under cabinet lights and hidden the outlet (or transformer if low voltage) in the cabinet. If you have the counter space to warrant it and are going to have the walls open anyway, I'd go for 3 kitchen counter circuits. Oh, and in case your old kitchen isn't like this: put the dishwasher receptacle in the undersink cabinet and run the cord through the cabinet like the drain. Lot of old houses had direct wired dishwashers or an outlet behind it. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 20:57
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mastershakeman posted:So what's the difference in grounding via clip vs the nail? Say you had a direct short to that metal box. If the box ground connection is poor, it could burn open before the breaker operates, or not conduct enough current to operate the device at all. In either case, the end result is that the box itself would be sitting there energized, and you can imagine that's not good.
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Mar 4, 2017 21:11
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mastershakeman posted:Should I just be going back to the hardware store for single pole switch + grounding screw + non contact voltage tester? Get a big mixed package of wire nuts, package of green ground screws, non contact voltage tester, wire stripper/cutter/crimper multitool thing (it will be awful but work), and the finest cheapest multimeter if you're feeling really frisky. Outside of scraps of wire that is everything you need to work on basic fix-it type tasks. Edit: Whoops lots of replies. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 21:39
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H110Hawk posted:Get a big mixed package of wire nuts, package of green ground screws, non contact voltage tester, wire stripper/cutter/crimper multitool thing (it will be awful but work), and the finest cheapest multimeter if you're feeling really frisky. Outside of scraps of wire that is everything you need to work on basic fix-it type tasks. Alternatively, if you aren't planning to do a bunch of work down the road/feel lazy you can get a pack of "grounding tails" that are just an 8" length of green 12ga pre-wrapped around an appropriate screw. Maybe slightly silly, but convenient.
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Mar 4, 2017 21:44
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Hubis posted:Alternatively, if you aren't planning to do a bunch of work down the road/feel lazy you can get a pack of "grounding tails" that are just an 8" length of green 12ga pre-wrapped around an appropriate screw. Maybe slightly silly, but convenient. Let me tell you, if I'd known this was a product before I added 17 outlets and a lightswitch to my workshop, I would absolutely have bought some.
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Mar 4, 2017 22:33
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Hubis posted:Is there anything else on the circuit for that outlet? Have you checked your see if you have GFCI breakers at your panel?  Phanatic posted:If the breaker is tripping, that means there's too much current flowing through the breaker. The problem might be at the receptacle, but it might not. The breaker itself might be defective, the breaker might be the wrong amperage for the wire connected to it, there might be something going on in your wall somewhere that is trying to start a fire. crocodile posted:this post raises a couple of red flags for me. are you the first and only owner of the house? for a house to have been built 7 years ago and have NO GFCI protection is very weird. unless you're not the first owner and the previous one went thru and changed out all the receptacles and didn't replace the GFCIs...unless there are GFCI breakers like hubis suggested.. About that plug- I know the style of side clamp screws you're referring to. But I'm still not sure if this outlet is backstabbed, or has side screw clamps. I loosened the side screws, but wasn't able to remove the wire easily. So at this point, I can't tell if the the wires are in fact back-stabbed in, or just stuck. Here are a few more pictures that i took today just in case it's helpful: Picture A Picture B When I trip the circuit, it's only that outlet that turns off with it. It happens every time I use my electric clipper, but sporadically with the vaccuum cleaner. My wife's hair straightening irons works fine on it. I can't think of any potential loads on the circuit while we're using those appliances- we're really mindful of our electricity usage. And thanks to all of you for being so patient, with me and my questions. melon cat fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 00:02
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melon cat posted:Well. That sounds bad. How do I (safely) test the amperage for the wire? What I meant by that is that you might have 12 gauge wire, which is good for 20 amps, connected to a 15 amp breaker. In such a case everything in the circuit might be okay, and there's nothing *dangerous* about oversizing the conductors relative to the breaker, but when the devices on that circuit try to draw a total of more than 15 amps of current, the breaker will trip.
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Mar 5, 2017 00:31
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Hubis posted:Alternatively, if you aren't planning to do a bunch of work down the road/feel lazy you can get a pack of "grounding tails" that are just an 8" length of green 12ga pre-wrapped around an appropriate screw. Maybe slightly silly, but convenient. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-Gr...grounding+tails I'll be damned. 20 for $12.
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Mar 5, 2017 04:41
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melon cat posted:Here's a picture of my panel. I just noticed that they have blue 'test' buttons labeled "AFCI". And when I press the test button it flips the breaker halfway. There are three of these buttons on the panel in total. Do these AFCI test buttons mean that I do have GFCI breakers on my fuse panel? having AFCI breakers does not mean you have GFCI protection. it looks to me like someone went through and changed all of the outlets and didn't replace GFIs where they are necessary. that will be up to you or your electrician to do. like i said earlier, to meet code when your home was built all of the areas i stated need GFI protection. i'm not aware of any modern plug (as in the last 15+ years) that accepts a 12 gauge stab. i could be mistaken about that, i've just never seen one in my over ten years in the field. there's a chance that plug was modified to take a back stab.. i used to work with a guy who didn't like curling the wires around the screws so he would drill out the back stab holes to accept 12 wire. that guy was an idiot. regardless it does need changed to a GFI, so that will at least take care of that receptacle. what amperage are your clippers drawing? should be on the clippers somewhere. the breaker for that circuit should be 20amps, is it? seems weird that a pair of clippers would draw anywhere near that. could be a fault inside of the clippers themselves causing it to trip.. really, though, it sounds to me like the breaker is going bad if that's the only receptacle on the circuit. quote:Am I understanding the dedicated circuits for fixed kitchen appliances correctly? If I do a full kitchen gut and remodel, do I need a minimum of: i haven't checked the 2017 code yet but as of 2014 all of these circuits are also required to have AFCI protection. most brands now make a dual function AFCI/GFCI breaker, but only for single wire branch circuits. if you've got multiwire branch circuits what i've been doing is putting a 2-pole AFCI breaker and then GFI receptacles in the locations they are required. everything within 6' of the sink and on the countertops needs GFI protection, but you're correct that since your fridge is further away, it doesn't need to be. as far as the circuits go, you don't need a dedicated fridge circuit, but it doesn't hurt. i usually just put it with one of the countertop circuits. typically if there's a gas range i'll just pull a separate circuit for the range and hood fan together, since they're always right next to each other. also, your microwave needs to be a 20amp circuit. lighting is not supposed to be on your small appliance circuits. if you're going to have the walls opened up it's just as easy to run your undercab lights from your lighting circuit. if you have receptacles, instead of hardwired, they also need to have GFI protection. crocodile fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 20:47
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I was under the impression undercabinet lights can be on the small appliance circuit as long as they aren't hardwired. I don't have a code book on me, but I think 210.52(B)(2) would be the only thing hanging one up (no other outlets on the 2 small appliance circuits, which of course is exempted for outlets feeding installed appliances). People never want the min 2 counter ciruits, which I guess is why I haven't gotten docked for it, really need to get right with the code. Hard wired lights on a small appliance circuit is expressly forbidden in the same section I think.
Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 21:18
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Blackbeer posted:I was under the impression undercabinet lights can be on the small appliance circuit as long as they aren't hardwired. I don't have a code book on me, but I think 210.52(B)(2) would be the only thing hanging one up (no other outlets on the 2 small appliance circuits, which of course is exempted for outlets feeding installed appliances). People never want the min 2 counter ciruits, which I guess is why I haven't gotten docked for it, really need to get right with the code. Hard wired lights on a small appliance circuit is expressly forbidden in the same section I think. Well yeah, making them a plug in appliance would get around all sorts of code.
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Mar 5, 2017 21:56
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i guess it's up to your inspector's interpretation. where i'm at it would never pass a final inspection, but i've seen a lot of people do it after the fact for convenience's sake. i still think if the walls are going to be opened up anyway it's better practice to just put them with the rest of the lighting.
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Mar 5, 2017 22:52
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kid sinister posted:New construction ceiling fan boxes don't quite work in old construction. Look at the 3rd picture on that site. Do you see that little tab that goes under the joist? That can be hard to wrestle under, plus consider that your existing box is already against the joist. Most boxes poke through the hole in the drywall slightly. How would you screw in those screws with the new box on that rail right there? See, and I thought the difference between new and retrofit was if you had access to the backside. Thanks for pointing that out. kid sinister posted:I saw go to the hardware store and see what they have. You should find one or two boxes that could work. So to conclude this story, I ended up doing this, then climbing up in the attic with everything I'd need in a shopping tote bag, getting all the way down to the far end and discovering I'd forgotten to bring a hammer that I'd need to pull the old box's nails out of the rafter. There were some extra holes in the mounting bracket, so I screwed the old box onto the rafter and it's much more stable now. Sadly, it turns out that someone, in their infinite wisdom, used a sheet metal screw in one of the box's tabs and jimmied up all the threads. I tried tapping it, but it's been damaged too much so I used the metal screw again. It's me, I'm the building horror.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:56
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crocodile posted:i guess it's up to your inspector's interpretation. where i'm at it would never pass a final inspection, but i've seen a lot of people do it after the fact for convenience's sake. i still think if the walls are going to be opened up anyway it's better practice to just put them with the rest of the lighting. Thanks for the feedback, and yeah- everything is fully exposed and being replaced from scratch, so why not.
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Mar 6, 2017 13:38
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I have a dimmer switch controlling a chandelier in my foyer. We rarely turn it on but yesterday we did and I noticed that after 10 minutes? or so the switch was physically hot to the point it was uncomfortable to touch the screws. Is this a problem? Do I need a new switch?
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Mar 6, 2017 13:39
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Probably. How big of a chandelier is it? (How many bulbs and what wattage are they?)
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Mar 6, 2017 14:06
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angryrobots posted:Probably. How big of a chandelier is it? (How many bulbs and what wattage are they?) I want to say somewhere around 25-30 bulbs? I don't know what many watts they are but they're little bulbs. It's a 2 story foyer and I don't really have a tall enough ladder to get close to it to tell and the design if it has a bunch of little mirror-esque pieces of glass hanging all over it that messes with my ability to count for sure. We do have a smaller version of the same chandelier in our dining room that I can access easily, and the bulbs look the same visually. Those bulbs are 40w each.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:26
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Steampunk Hitler posted:I want to say somewhere around 25-30 bulbs? I don't know what many watts they are but they're little bulbs. It's a 2 story foyer and I don't really have a tall enough ladder to get close to it to tell and the design if it has a bunch of little mirror-esque pieces of glass hanging all over it that messes with my ability to count for sure. 25-30 40 watt bulbs is going to be somewhere over 1000 watts total, and even the old rotary lutron dimmers were only good for 600, if you left all the tabs on. I don't think you can buy a home dimmer today good for that, let alone 1000. I would take the faceplate off the dimmer and look for the rating. If you're over, get a dimmer rated for the load, or replace all the bulbs with dimmable LEDs. edit: I stand slightly corrected, lutron has a 1000W dimmer https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-DV-10P-WH-1000-Watt-Single-Pole-Dimmer/dp/B0006UUHU2 but if you have 26 40W bulbs in there, you're over that already too. Qwijib0 fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 15:34
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Qwijib0 posted:25-30 40 watt bulbs is going to be somewhere over 1000 watts total, and even the old rotary lutron dimmers were only good for 600, if you left all the tabs on. I don't think you can buy a home dimmer today good for that, let alone 1000. I would take the faceplate off the dimmer and look for the rating. If you're over, get a dimmer rated for the load, or replace all the bulbs with dimmable LEDs. I just took the front plate off, it says: 1000W max, 2 gang 800W, 3 gang or more 650W. This is in a 3 gang box, but the other two switches are not dimmers (one is a regular switch, one is a timer for the front lights). I'm taking it to mean that this switch is only rated for 650W in the current configuration?
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Mar 6, 2017 15:44
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Steampunk Hitler posted:I want to say somewhere around 25-30 bulbs? I don't know what many watts they are but they're little bulbs. It's a 2 story foyer and I don't really have a tall enough ladder to get close to it to tell and the design if it has a bunch of little mirror-esque pieces of glass hanging all over it that messes with my ability to count for sure. 25x40W bulbs (I assume they are incandescents?) Would be 1000W, which is the maximum for any dimmer I've ever seen (I think some are rated for 600W, but I have only been dealing with LED friendly dimmers so I'm not sure if that's particular to that subset). They also make 1500W dimmers, however I believe that wouldn't help your problem as the rating (as I understand it, IANAE, etc.) Has more to do with the heat dissipation the switch can handle before failure. If you are dimming 1000W of bulbs, you've got the same amount of waste heat to dissipate no matter what. I believe the rule of thumb is something like 1W of heat for every 100W of controlled load. If you take off the face plate you should be able to find a load rating on the switch body I believe. Also, if the dimmer is in a box with something else it may have to have its capacity de- rated. Is it a blue plastic box in the wall? That will not really sink heat like a metal one would. You could pull and replace the box with a metal old work style box, but that will probably be a real pain in the rear end and maybe messy. A less drastic tactic would be replacing the faceplate (if it's plastic) with a metal one. That will spread the heat out over more surface are so it will dissipate a bit more efficiently, although the whole faceplate will then be warm (although hopefully less so). The last option would be to swap the bulbs out for LEDs - the Cree and Phillips candelabra bulbs have gotten pretty nice, but that will be pretty expensive for 25 bulbs (plus probably having to change out the dimmer). I'd verify the rating of the dimmer and try changing out the faceplate first and seeing if that helps any.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:45
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Steampunk Hitler posted:I just took the front plate off, it says: the gang ratings are *usually* for sets of dimmers, since a toggle shouldn't generate heat. If the dimmer still has all he removable tabs on it, then it's good for the 1000W. Your next step would be to see if the bulbs are in fact 40w, and if there are any more than 25 of them.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:52
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Can anyone tell me if this is intended as an outlet or if it just joins two wires or what the jeeslus is going on?   It is located on what is soon to be the inside edge of a dividing wall, you can see the first sheet of plywood behind it. The outlet itself looks like this, is this for mounting a real outlet in top of or for some special appliance? 
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Mar 9, 2017 17:19
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Rnr posted:Can anyone tell me if this is intended as an outlet or if it just joins two wires or what the jeeslus is going on? Wow, that is weird looking. Is that a pull ring on the bottom? With only 2 wires attached, that's probably some type of switch. What country is this in by the way? Edit: now that I think about it, that looks like what we in North America would call a "quick disconnect" with the jumper missing. It looks keyed for a jumper bridging the holes inside that can only be inserted one way. Here, you can either leave the jumper out, or pull it out and insert it upside down. While upside down, the socket will hold onto the jumper, but the jumper can't touch the contacts. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 17:39
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I'm in Denmark. The house is real old though (1880). I'd say the stuff I'm tampering with in this particular room probably had a refresh like 30 years ago, but that is guessing. Am I remembering wrong, or aren't brown wires supposed to be phase? And the blue neutral? So if only the two phases are connected you would see jack poo poo? I tried to see if I could measure any current after switching on all possible switches around it, and nothing.
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Mar 13, 2017 10:40
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Rnr posted:Can anyone tell me if this is intended as an outlet or if it just joins two wires or what the jeeslus is going on? It looks a bit like a very old style 380V outlet. But then again, the inlay where the cables goes in, is a standard LK Opus type. I would get in touch with an electrician - drop by one and show him the pictures.
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Mar 13, 2017 18:20
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I hear ya, will do.
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Mar 13, 2017 18:59
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I just ran it by a Facebok group with a lot of international electricians (Crappy Electrical, mostly a mock group for terrible things found on the job and mostly Aussies, fun group.) I'll let you know if anyone positively identifies it.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:55
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Rnr posted:I'm in Denmark. The house is real old though (1880). I'd say the stuff I'm tampering with in this particular room probably had a refresh like 30 years ago, but that is guessing. From what I've read, in most of Europe, black or brown is "phase" or what we would call "hot", blue is neutral, and green or green with yellow is earth/ground.
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Mar 14, 2017 16:20
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So uh I kinda signed up for electrician's training. Luckily I have a degree in information and communication technology, that cuts out a lot of schoolwork leaving only nine months worth of studying to do. Gonna be sparky. Yay.
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Mar 14, 2017 22:05
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Thanks for the advice folks. I took a second shot at testing it today, and not surprisingly when I measured on brown and blue, both browns showed 240v. So I'm guessing it was intended as an outlet for older heavy appliances? Anyways, will talk to an electrician and see what my options are.
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Mar 14, 2017 22:08
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Got an answer from the FB group, it's a 230V switch made by LK Fuga and the front plate is missing. This is the replacement part https://www.greenline.dk/k/elartikler/lauritz-knudsen-fuga/fuga-afbryder/p/lk-fuga-1-polet-afbryder
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Mar 15, 2017 00:08
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beyonder posted:So uh I kinda signed up for electrician's training. Luckily I have a degree in information and communication technology, that cuts out a lot of schoolwork leaving only nine months worth of studying to do. Why? With that background you could be doing industrial automation stuff and cleaning up. All the new equipment is moving to PROFINET (Ethernet variant with some additional features to support real time tasks) internals and the older maintenance dudes don't understand how it works at all and deep down still don't really trust all that newfangled RS-485 serial gear from the last 20 years. Ask me about seeing a multimillion dollar machine stay down for three days because the guy in charge refused to believe wire pairing mattered in an RJ45.
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Mar 15, 2017 02:37
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GWBBQ posted:Got an answer from the FB group, it's a 230V switch made by LK Fuga and the front plate is missing. This is the replacement part https://www.greenline.dk/k/elartikler/lauritz-knudsen-fuga/fuga-afbryder/p/lk-fuga-1-polet-afbryder That's awesome, thank you!
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Mar 15, 2017 09:23
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shame on an IGA posted:Why? With that background you could be doing industrial automation stuff and cleaning up. All the new equipment is moving to PROFINET (Ethernet variant with some additional features to support real time tasks) internals and the older maintenance dudes don't understand how it works at all and deep down still don't really trust all that newfangled RS-485 serial gear from the last 20 years. No job at the moment and there is that "want" factor in play.
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Mar 15, 2017 13:34
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I have some ugly coax cable running on the outside of my house that I want to remove. It's right near where my service drop runs. How close can I safely get to the service line without dying?
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Mar 15, 2017 14:54
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I have some ugly coax cable running on the outside of my house that I want to remove. It's right near where my service drop runs. How close can I safely get to the service line without dying? Don't touch it. It's only 110V to ground.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:30
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It should be insulated and safe to touch, but out of an abundance of caution just don't touch it and you'll be fine.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:59
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