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I would appreciate it if Zola DIDN'T betray Corrin, but the game writing is clearly not good enough for that to be the case. Of course the creepy enemy dude is going to inevitably betray them. but, ugh, it's so obnoxiously telegraphed. Not to mention, if he wasn't going to betray Corinn, he'd be a unit in battle by now. Game mechanics give it away as much as anything. bad writers, bad bad writers.
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Mar 4, 2017 19:52
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No, it's fine because according to Corrrin Zola hasn't backstabbed us for 2 missions now he's double trust worthy C Support   You look like you could handle anything.  You'll rue the day you crossed me!  I feel like I'm worthless in a fight.  We used to talk regularly back when I was in training as a pegasus knight.
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Mar 4, 2017 19:53
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Spatula City posted:I would appreciate it if Zola DIDN'T betray Corrin, but the game writing is clearly not good enough for that to be the case. Of course the creepy enemy dude is going to inevitably betray them. but, ugh, it's so obnoxiously telegraphed. Not to mention, if he wasn't going to betray Corinn, he'd be a unit in battle by now. Game mechanics give it away as much as anything. bad writers, bad bad writers. Sir? Sir, what are you doing? Please stop that, it's really weirding me out. Shhh, shhh. We're bonding.
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Mar 4, 2017 20:06
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Tae posted:
On the one hand, yes, mice are a problem. On the other... Oboro's kind of overenthused about hunting it down, isn't she? Tae posted:
Mozu's underselling herself, and Hayato... well, he's obviously BEEN in a few battles by now if you've seen this, but that's the only reason I'm not calling BS on his speech about battle. Tae posted:
...This sounds like they're flirting already, and it's only the C rank. Problem is... well... it's Subaki, who, as has been repeatedly established, is worthless in a fight and completely obsolete thanks to the presence of Hinoka. Rangpur posted:Anyway, I kind of regret the loss of the head rubbing minigame if only because I find the mental image of Corrin just standing there dragging his palm over someone's face really funny. Apparently it's genetic; I'm pretty sure I remember (from a translation I've seen somewhere) one of Mikoto's retainers commenting on how she used to do that too.
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Mar 4, 2017 20:27
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Spatula City posted:I would appreciate it if Zola DIDN'T betray Corrin, but the game writing is clearly not good enough for that to be the case. Of course the creepy enemy dude is going to inevitably betray them. but, ugh, it's so obnoxiously telegraphed. Not to mention, if he wasn't going to betray Corinn, he'd be a unit in battle by now. Game mechanics give it away as much as anything. bad writers, bad bad writers. I'm amazed by the last scene that no one seems to have figured out that dark mages can summon dark spirits and whether this "heroic" salvation was staged, but hey, Fates. I mean, I was curious to see if Zola became a fieldable dark mage on the Birthright side but I'm guessing not.
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Mar 4, 2017 20:38
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It would've been such a cheap shot if the game gave you Takumi for two chapters, and then he gets chumped in a cut scene. In some ways I wish that happened rather than setting up the betrayal by the totally trustworthy Zola. Also hello new flying class with bows! I never thought the game would actually give a flyer a weapon to destroy all other flyers, but uh, thanks! I'll take it.
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Mar 4, 2017 20:58
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Rangpur posted:There's much to recommend previous Fire Emblem games but subtlety in character design is not one of them. Has there ever been a primary antagonist that didn't have 'I AM EVIL' flashing in neon above their head? Lyon from Sacred Stones, at least on Ephraim's route, and Sephiran and arguably the Black Knight's real identity from Radiant Dawn come to mind. They're also some of the few villains with actual motivations beyond 'CONQUEST!' and 'puppy-kicking evil', too. Maybe Gangrel from Awakening, at a stretch? His design is pretty evil but it's more from his mannerisms than his appearance.
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Mar 4, 2017 22:12
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Spatula City posted:I would appreciate it if Zola DIDN'T betray Corrin, but the game writing is clearly not good enough for that to be the case. Of course the creepy enemy dude is going to inevitably betray them. but, ugh, it's so obnoxiously telegraphed. Not to mention, if he wasn't going to betray Corinn, he'd be a unit in battle by now. Game mechanics give it away as much as anything. bad writers, bad bad writers. Rangpur posted:There's much to recommend previous Fire Emblem games but subtlety in character design is not one of them. Has there ever been a primary antagonist that didn't have 'I AM EVIL' flashing in neon above their head?
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Mar 4, 2017 22:19
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 Einherjar Shop is where you can buy those special guest units from other games, kinda like the ones in Awakening.  But today is to finally build one of the most powerful buildings in the game: The Smithy.  Mozu is exactly right. Forging is taking jewel materials and combining two of the exact same weapons to make one powerful weapon.  Ore Swap is there because you only get 1 random jewel farm per Birthright or Conquest run. If you don't have the right jewel, you exchange four of those for one of the other ones.  Here's the worst part about this: Every path's weapon type requires its own jewel. That's right, Swords and Katanas need their own things. Scrolls and Tomes need separate things, as do even goddamn bows.  Here's an example of forging an Iron Yumi. By spending one Jade, I now have a bow that's 1 less MT than a Steel Yumi with none of the drawbacks. That means all future E Rank weapon users will not be far behind in strength because forged Bronze weapons are as strong as Iron weapons with more accuracy.  However, going up in forge rank requires more materials, eventually needing 128 total copies of the same weapon if you want a +7. But seriously, +2 is good for most of the game. Side-note, you can't forge Dragonstones or unique weapons like the Yato.     That's a really cool theater experience if I could go. Gondolas at sea as the front row seats? Rad.  How many kingdoms are there on this continent, jeez.  Wow. This is Cheve? If Ryoma is here, he's probably not in dire need of our help. Actually, Corrin, Cheve is still inland from here. This place is called Cyrkensia. It belongs to the kingdom of Nestra.  Correction, how many neutral kingdoms are there As you can see, this city is known for leisure. People from both Nohr and Hoshido vacation here, even in times of war. Ah. Well, it certainly seems lively! Yes. You'd hardly know there's a war going on elsewhere... Let's hope it stays that way.  Oh. Random beast party member.  My name's Kaden! Excuse me? You know, humans? Like, you don't have fuzzy tails or ears? And you don't transform into any other creatures? Well...yes and no. Aww, you're not going to answer my questions? That's rude! No, I'm sorry. It's just that...it's complicated.And as to whether we're from Hoshido... Also complicated. Sorry that I can't be more specific right now. May I ask who—and what—you are?   Yup! That's exactly it. I can turn into a fox! Wanna see? Kaden, what are you doing so far from home? I thought kitsune didn't leave the village for any reason. Yeah, that's true. But I'm a little different, I guess. I'm here to return a favor for someone. Anytime someone's nice to me, I have to be nice in return. One day, I walked out of my village and met some humans. And they were so excellent to me! I had to find a way to repay them. That led me to meet more humans, who were also super nice. One favor led to another, and I wound up here without even knowing how I got here.  Nah, kitsune never get lost. All right. Let me put it another way. Do you know how to get home? No. I don't. But I can't go home yet anyway! I owe someone here a big favor. Hmm... Maybe you guys could help me out... It kind of seems like a human problem, so I don't really know what to do. Here, can you talk to my new friend about it? Her name's Layla. Oh. Um, hello. How can we help you? I don't think that you can... Please, try us. We've just arrived, so we have a little time before we have to move on. I know we don't owe you anything, but we'd like to help. Very well. My mother lives in a small village a few miles from here. She's old and frail, and I'm told the end could come at any moment. I really need to go and see her right away, but there's a problem...  I'm a singer, and I have a performance scheduled today...for King Garon. Yes. He visits the area often, and he always requests a performance from me. But how can I sing at a time like this? I believe that we can help. I can perform in your stead. Do you really think that will work? I'm not sure about this, Azura. Don't you see, Corrin? This is our chance to take the enemy by surprise. We shouldn't waste the opportunity! Hmm. Are you thinking what I'm thinking?Azura is bloodthirsty for a quick kill.  I mean, I know you don't have sweet fox vision like me, but... Kaden, we have a mage traveling with us who can make me look exactly like Layla. Your decision to accept Zola is looking quite sage now, Corrin. Wait, what do you want me to do?SEE, THIS ALL PAID OFF You heard me, Zola. While King Garon is distracted by my song, others can approach undetected. If we capture Garon, Nohr would have no choice but to negotiate for peace. I don't know. Garon would DEFINITELY kill me if he found out... I thought you were on our side now, Zola. We need you! We are trying to end the war as peacefully as we can. Don't you see that?Also if you capture him, there's literally no way he can punish you  Ugh... I understand. I'll do it. The Nohrians will see Lady Azura as Layla. However, you must understand that my spell won't change her voice!  Oh, rest assured... Azura is an incredible singer. That's right. This wouldn't be the first time she's mesmerized a crowd with her voice. Well...if you say so. I would be so grateful for the chance to see my mother. Are you really sure about all this? If you fail, King Garon is going to be really mad... Don't worry about us. Just go see your mother while you still can. And thank you for providing us this opportunity. All right. Good luck! But...now I owe you guys. Wow! I've really got myself in a pickle with this whole favor thing... Do you think I could tag along with you humans until I figure out how to repay you? Kaden, you do realize that we're in the middle of a war, right? Yeah, that sounds crazy and exciting! Did I already tell you that I can turn into a big, scary fox? It's so great! And do you have any combat experience as a fox? Ha! Take a look at this beaststone. It makes me super fierce. Very well. I suspect you'll be able to repay your supposed debt to us rather quickly. Everyone, we don't have much time left before the show s-starts... Right. Zola, time to work your magic... *Time passes*  I don't know... Ah, look up there. In the roped-off area. I haven't seen him since the attack. I still can't believe this is happening. Who's that sitting next to him? hi elise That's Elise, my sister. She looks so sad. She was such a bright and cheerful girl before all this happened... Poor Elise. I'm so sorry for choosing to stand against you. When all of this is over, I hope you'll understand the decisions I made...*On the stage*   Tell me, Father. What sorts of things does this performer sing about? Does it matter? Her voice is divine. Just sit back and enjoy the show. All right... You are the ocean's gray waves... ♪ That song? No, Azura! What are you doing? "You keep messing up ocean and gray!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO146dubiVw   Now's our chance! Soldiers of Hoshido, gather yourselves-- Well, well, well. Just what do you think you're doing, Corrin? Gah!How they are they talking, aren't they like tons of meters away and many more vertically spaced  Capture them, men!*reinforcements arrive*   Did you really think you could outsmart me, Corrin? Pathetic. What are they going to do to my Corrin? Elise! How fascinating. Despite your treason and betrayal, you still seem to care about your sister. I don't understand. How could you have anticipated this?  I still can't believe you willingly allowed one of my men to travel with you. But he didn't betray us for two missions, that means like doubly trustworthy Corrin, why did you lie Zola was behind this? But he proved his loyalty!  That's right. I could be dead if it weren't for him. What better way to convince you all? I knew a healer would be nearby. You filthy rat! I'll kill you myself!  Can you please tell Lord Leo not to kill me after all? And, um, while you're at it... Would it inconvenience you terribly to pardon Lord Corrin? The Hoshidans have practically brainwashed him! This isn't his fault. What's the matter, Zola? Conscience bothering you? Please, King Garon! I beg you! This grows tiresome. Wait...but... But nothing! You think you have the right to ask ME for anything? Oh no, the betrayal's been betrayed!! Gyaah! Father! What are you doing? Ugh...Lord Corrin...please forgive me...*dies* ...Did you just completely forget what the hell he did in the first place to Hoshido and you Still you pity a...creature...such as that! One who betrayed you, nonetheless! This is the source of your weakness. Do you really think it's OK to use people as you see fit and then dispose of them?  I'm sorry, what? I'll show you weakness. Just come within range of my bow... No. We can't make a stand here. There are too many of them. We need to escape and regroup. Everyone, make for that exit!  That's a looooooottta enemies. But Garon's right there! If I kill him now, the war will end!  Oh. Uh, well. HP is just a number that can be whittled down by Poison Strik-  ...That is unfair.  That's REALLY unfair  I GET IT, I WON'T FIGHT YOU Stats HERE Vote to bench 6. Setsuna is newly out for three straight denials. It's multi-vote this time. http://www.strawpoll.me/12463724 Tae fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Mar 4, 2017 |
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Mar 4, 2017 22:54
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Shouldn't Kaden be on the list? I know you can use him on this map.
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Mar 4, 2017 23:08
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That looks like a final boss. Though it does explain a lot of the crap in Conquest.
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Mar 4, 2017 23:14
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Junpei posted:Shouldn't Kaden be on the list? I know you can use him on this map. I'm pretty sure he's automatically deployed.
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Mar 4, 2017 23:17
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Meh, he's got one hell of a swing, but with that speed you might be able to beat him with a few units if you had the patience for it. You would need some serious crit evade though. Looks like a bunch of knights and cavaliers. Luckily you have tons of axe users. Right? ...Right?
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Mar 4, 2017 23:18
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Yeah, I stalled here because I decided to level grind and beat Garon at this point. If the writing was a bit better, they would have added a few lines to establish clearly that Zola was bullshitting about the disguise illusion this time. And Azura figured, but didn't care. As it is, there are a few lines that can mean that the disguise is only visible to Nohrians instead of everyone.
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Mar 4, 2017 23:38
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(potentially-spoilery comment on Garon's choice of skills deleted). On the bright side: You can use Draconic Hex yourself in the Nohr and third routes (or buy it from other players for the Hoshido route; I'm not judging). It's just as devastating as you'd expect, and makes the Avatar a top-tier offensive unit (even beyond their sheer stats). Anyway, Kaden is, indeed, automatically deployed; pretty sure he starts right next to the Avatar. My review of him will come after the stage is cleared.
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Mar 4, 2017 23:48
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quote:practically brainwashed him/her! There's an extra 'her' when Zola's spoken. And  Zola. It would have been pretty interesting if he joined the team like Endorph mentioned with the cut stuff.
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Mar 4, 2017 23:54
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Welp, Zola. Shame you had to be Obviously Evil, you might have made for an interesting addition to the crew. Then again, given how the game's been written thus far, perhaps it's for the best you left the stage early.
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Mar 5, 2017 00:09
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If memory serves you can grind up and kill Garon here. It changes absolutely nothing.
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Mar 5, 2017 00:17
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FoolyCharged posted:If memory serves you can grind up and kill Garon here. It changes absolutely nothing. I assume he just retreats if you knock him down to 0. Like most plot people.
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Mar 5, 2017 00:25
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An interesting thing to note about Garon here is that he uses the General axe animations for his unique Nohrian King class. Except they didn't tweak them to account for Garon not holding a giant shield in his non-weapon hand, so he's always holding his left hand up in the air when idle. On the other hand, it's a good thing Garon has the Dragon Skin ability and that Bolverk gives +20 Critical Dodge because that abysmal 4 Luck would mean that a few good critical hits would roast Garon quickly.
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Mar 5, 2017 00:31
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FoolyCharged posted:If memory serves you can grind up and kill Garon here. It changes absolutely nothing. Which, to be fair, is pretty standard for JRPGs. But it is kind of a symptom of one of my (many, many) issues with Fates. The battles don't matter. Most Fire Emblems are, basically, a series of battles with the plot being around to explain why these dudes are beating the holy hell out of each other. The majority of important plot events take place on the maps, from recruiting to the death of characters. The series highwater mark is probably Genealogy, but it's generally how things work, barring a few unexplained survivals and the like. Awakening even displays the "battle forecast" at the bottom of the screen during cutscene fights to emphasize that (even when it isn't) the plot and the gameplay are using the same "rules". Fates... does not do that. Generally, the plot treats the combat as non-events. At best, abstract representations of some conflict between armies, and more often just a wad of nothing. The gameplay is just an irritating side note to its masterful narrative, as far as the main plot is concerned. And when the plot is this bad...
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Mar 5, 2017 00:41
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I like that Zola actually has enough empathy to try saving Corrin, it's more of a morally gray spot than I expect from this game (re: not very).Endorph posted:most of the fe4 antagonists Like half the protagonists are comically evil or literal devil worshippers?
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Mar 5, 2017 01:17
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After the perma-benching of Setsuna, I will vote to bench Takumi at every opportunity out of spite. Yeah, I know Setsuna sucks, but she's funny so I put her on my team every time.
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Mar 5, 2017 01:21
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Last Celebration posted:Like half the protagonists are comically evil or literal devil worshippers?
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Mar 5, 2017 01:57
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Endorph posted:of the major fe4 antagonists the only ones like that are manfroy and julius. and julius is literally satan so he has an excuse. Hilda is pretty comically evil.
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Mar 5, 2017 02:12
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FELD1 posted:After the perma-benching of Setsuna, I will vote to bench Takumi at every opportunity out of spite. First, Tae is showing the supports even for units we've never let him use (why else would he be showing Hayato's supports?), so it's not like you don't get to read her dialogue. Second, voting just out of spite is just gonna antagonize people. As an afterthought: If you want a player to use Setsuna, you've basically confirmed that you've got a copy of your own, so you can just PLAY IT YOURSELF! Not everyone finds her gimmicks amusing, and out of those not everyone is willing to forgive her faults just because of that; I, for one, am annoyed by her (and her sheer suckage), so I would've voted to bench her every time (except that last map) if she wasn't removed as an option or some highly improbable miracle actually made her a credible unit.
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Mar 5, 2017 02:39
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Calm down, please
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Mar 5, 2017 02:43
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Tae posted:Calm down, please Lemme guess: You're referring to both Feld (and his "permabench Takumi out of spite" plan) AND me (and my yelling at him for his spite), right? I mean, I'm sure I can calm down just fine, but being spiteful toward the guy who's actually playing rubs me the wrong way, to put it lightly.
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Mar 5, 2017 02:59
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You're taking voting way too seriously I make jokes in the LP about the voting, but I don't actually care who's in the party with how I make polls as long as people vote
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Mar 5, 2017 03:02
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Hana generally turns out pretty well for me, personally but I'm not gonna argue about her not being exceptional. Personally, I don't think the 'Hardworking and intensely training-focused' character archetype has been done well at all since Mia.
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Mar 5, 2017 03:11
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A vote for 
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Mar 5, 2017 03:11
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C Support I'm so humiliated...  Just be yourself, you naughty cat. I hate all Nohrians equally.  We need to consider who is protecting the royal family.
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Mar 5, 2017 03:41
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Permaban everyone who voted for Setsuna. Release the strawpoll voter id op
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Mar 5, 2017 03:41
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I really like Kaden as a unit - he's basically Hana that works. His supports are almost all universally good, too.
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Mar 5, 2017 03:48
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Reina is a cool unit, though this is coming from someone who generally likes the prepromotes in FE games. It really is a shame that a lot of them come with Corrin supports and nothing else. Still, good bases, a useful personal skill and flight combine to make for a solid unit for most of the game. Kaden is, I think, the only unit in Fates that I've never used in any way past his joining chapter. On paper, he doesn't seem very useful, certainly worse than his Nohr counterpart, but perhaps he'll surprise me! I'll go into more detail once we've seen him in action in this chapter.
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Mar 5, 2017 04:41
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Tae posted:C Support I've been getting better about meaningless comments, as I'm sure everyone's noticed, but I can't let this one go without at least one "What." Tae posted:
This cannot possibly end well for Orochi (anyone else getting vibes of the Kellam+Miriel support here?). Also: I'm pretty sure "assassin" is part of a ninja's job description. Tae posted:
The moral of this support: Never let Saizo near the rookies.
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Mar 5, 2017 04:49
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You know, as over-used as that drat "grey waves" song is, that cutscene really does look nice. If you can say nothing else about them, the 3DS games' cutscenes all look really, really nice. Also, this map coming up is one of the few Birthright maps that can actually get somewhat difficult, depending on who you're using and how cheap you want to be. At least on Hard and above; it's still pathetic on Normal.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:23
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"Groans of increasing discomfort" is the best line in the game. I defy anyone to disagree.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:32
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Camel Pimp posted:You know, as over-used as that drat "grey waves" song is, that cutscene really does look nice. If you can say nothing else about them, the 3DS games' cutscenes all look really, really nice.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:33
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CptWedgie posted:Lemme guess: You're referring to both Feld (and his "permabench Takumi out of spite" plan) AND me (and my yelling at him for his spite), right? I mean, I'm sure I can calm down just fine, but being spiteful toward the guy who's actually playing rubs me the wrong way, to put it lightly. I didn't know that I'd have to clarify here, but I have no spite toward the LPer here. In fact, I applaud him/her for tackling the game with peanut-gallery selections of characters.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:58
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