Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

PleasingFungus posted:

you guys are very, very badly underestimating how strong pain is for a 3-rune game

bad guys fuckin' melt

Ya. If you aren't going for abyss/pan/hell where everything is largely immune to pain it's extremely strong. Pain is stronger than elec with like 8 necro and if you can carry around a quickblade/dagger of pain and an elec or holy wrath thing you are pretty set. At high levels of necro anything not immune dies very very quickly.

Really wish extended was more diverse since holy wrath is simply hands down the best and you don't even need to carry anything else since the enemies that ignore holy wrath aren't that strong or are skippable like angel pan floor.

Instead of deleting poo poo for game purity if they could make it where 10 out of 15 runes aren't always in demon town it would be good.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:15

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:13

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

I have seen a single quick blade in the time I have been playing the videogame Crawl.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:18

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

That's some good rear end armor

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:19

Archenteron: Nov 3, 2006

So protip: Try not to keep Brand Weapon and Enchant Weapon scrolls on the same letter capital/lowercase.

I was mashing Enchant too hard on my TSO-branded Battleaxe and now it's Freezing instead of Holy Wrath :negative:

Now wondering whether or not to use a Trishula (I think it dropped from Mennas), Sacred Scourge, or Great Mace of Holy Wrath with my ~18 Polearms/M&F crosstrained from my 27 Axes in the relevant zones as opposed to my +8 Executioner's Axe Frostbite (I'm a FoFi so the 1h vs 2h is irrelevant for me)

Archenteron fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 4, 2017

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:37

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Archenteron posted:

So protip: Try not to keep Brand Weapon and Enchant Weapon scrolls on the same letter capital/lowercase.

I was mashing Enchant too hard on my TSO-branded Battleaxe and now it's Freezing instead of Holy Wrath

Now wondering whether or not to use a Trishula (I think it dropped from Mennas), Sacred Scourge, or Great Mace of Holy Wrath with my ~18 Polearms/M&F crosstrained from my 27 Axes in the relevant zones as opposed to my +8 Executioner's Axe Frostbite (I'm a FoFi so the 1h vs 2h is irrelevant for me)

Freeze is still good for tabbing around you can swap to holy great mace for splatting big demons/undead.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:47

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Protip: You can so cheese the gently caress out of wucad mu's monastery with aura of abjuration. It's kinda sad, really.

Edit: For style points, maybe I should use wucad mu.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:49

a star war betamax: Sep 17, 2011; by Lowtax; Gary’s Answer

Thanks for the advices everyone. I've been off to a good start with a minotaur fighter of okawaru and I managed to get one rune before getting acided to death in elftown

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:52

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

Instead of mashing repeatedly to enchant a weapon just do it once and hit ` a bunch to repeat the action, it will stop once you run out of scrolls obviously. Fun Facts

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:54

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Decrepus posted:

I have seen a single quick blade in the time I have been playing the videogame Crawl.

Try KoBe or VsBe and use short blades, Trog will drop one or two eventually.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 20:57

weirdly chilly pussy: Oct 6, 2007

I think I just had the easiest time ever killing the royal jelly. First a scroll of torment and then gell's gravitas with all the newly spawned jellies crashing into their master :v:

edit: of course the loot was totally useless

weirdly chilly pussy fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Mar 4, 2017

# ? Mar 4, 2017 21:27

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

someone awful. posted:

Instead of mashing repeatedly to enchant a weapon just do it once and hit ` a bunch to repeat the action, it will stop once you run out of scrolls obviously. Fun Facts

The '0' key also lets you repeat an act multiple times.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 21:34

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-820-g557356e (webtiles) character file.

1712482 bananaken the Slayer (level 27, 213/213 HPs)
             Began as a Formicid Earth Elementalist on Mar 2, 2017.
             Was a High Priest of Wu Jian.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on Mar 4, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 05:12:59 (77709 turns).

bananaken the Slayer (Formicid Earth Elementalist) Turns: 77709, Time: 05:13:00

Health: 213/213    AC: 46    Str: 37    XL:     27
Magic:  28/28      EV: 14    Int: 28    God:    Wu Jian [*****.]
Gold:   4247       SH: 31    Dex: 13    Spells: 1/52 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   A - +9 battleaxe (freeze)
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   l - +12 crystal plate armour of the Thistle {rElec rPois}
rNeg     + + .     Faith    .   B - +5 large shield of Nemelex Xobeh {-Tele rPois Str+4 Dex+4}
rPois    +         Spirit   .   (helmet unavailable)
rElec    +         Reflect  .   E - scarf {rC+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   R - +1 pair of gloves of Gallantry {rF+++ Dex-3 Slay+3 Stlth+}
MR       +++++     Clarity  +   (boots unavailable)
Stlth    ..........             c - amulet of the Four Winds {rN+ MR+++ Clar}
Regen    0.5/turn               H - ring "Wurhuz Epius" {Wiz +Blink rPois rN+ Int+4}
MPRegen  0.3/turn               K - ring "Beulun" {rF+ Str+7 Int+10 Dex-2 Slay-4}

@: deflect missiles
A: permanent stasis, dig shafts and tunnels, four strong arms, antennae 3,
talons 3, icy blue scales 2, dopey 1, frail 1, low mp 3, magic resistance 1,
poison resistance, strong 2
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, abyssal, gossamer
a: Dig, Shaft Self, Serpent's Lash, Heaven On Earth, Renounce Religion

The game wanted me to cast invisibility, death channel and deflect missiles in CPA so I obliged

# ? Mar 4, 2017 21:37

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

PleasingFungus posted:

you guys are very, very badly underestimating how strong pain is for a 3-rune game

bad guys fuckin' melt

PleasingFungus posted:

IME, it's more often correct to take pain brand than the necronomicon

These are true, when you're building for pain it's very good. But vampirism is also very very strong in a 3 rune game. It's not that pain is bad, but that vampirism is so strong (while also being effective against the same monster list) that it devalues pain. Pain is easier to get thanks to Kiku, but in the situation where both are available it's hard to justify not using vamp. The suggestion wasn't that either brand is too weak so you need to stack them them to make it worthwhile, more that three brands all have the same resistances and one overshadows the rest (and it's the one that isn't tied to a god) Combining them makes the god stand out more and force more complicated decisions on outsiders who find a copy of the brand. Right now if any berserker or so on finds a vampiric battleaxe that is their default weapon for the entire game until extended or they find a vampiric executioners axe. That's broadly true for every weapon type, even for short blades vamp is competitive. Basically it's to make pain more unique and vamp less of a no brainer.

In this hypothetical the vampiric effect would also depend upon necromancy skill and the damage would be downscaled slightly so that it's not obscenely powerful with low/mid necromancy, but still an attractive choice to push for investment in a good brand.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 22:16

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

it feels like it'd be a lot simpler to just make vampirism weaker

# ? Mar 4, 2017 22:58

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

PleasingFungus posted:

it feels like it'd be a lot simpler to just make (game worse)

Crawldev.txt

# ? Mar 4, 2017 23:05

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Decrepus posted:

I have seen a single quick blade in the time I have been playing the videogame Crawl.

That brings up an interesting question - do some of the high-risk vaults with runed doors use Aquirement code to generate their loot? Because they seem to produce just the type of weapon that I want. Is it even possible for a vault to do that?

# ? Mar 4, 2017 23:06

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

SKULL.GIF posted:

The '0' key also lets you repeat an act multiple times.

Since I play on a laptop, I wish it would not do this. Very irritating to have to cancel out when I meant to hit 9

# ? Mar 4, 2017 23:10

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Captain Monkey posted:

Crawldev.txt

I don't think he was actually proposing to nerf Vampirism, it seemed to me he was pointing out that the proposal to make Vampirism more situational is an overly complicated approach to nerfing Vampirism.

# ? Mar 4, 2017 23:12

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

I think when it comes to nerfing things that making something require more investment but retaining its power is more interesting than just making it weaker. I don't think that this is an uncommon sentiment either.

Especially true when 'making it weaker' means effectively or literally removing it. _{Rip crown of eternal singularity}

e: Also it would make vampirism more common via Kiku and excruciating wounds so it's actually a stealth buff to necromancers because I am an agent working to undermine the 'good' gods and promote necromantic magic.

Darox fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Mar 4, 2017

# ? Mar 4, 2017 23:19

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

SKULL.GIF posted:

I don't think he was actually proposing to nerf Vampirism, it seemed to me he was pointing out that the proposal to make Vampirism more situational is an overly complicated approach to nerfing Vampirism.

Goonsandjokes.txt

# ? Mar 4, 2017 23:20

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

"I should get a buckler for my VSBe-"

code:

 +9 shield of Taymnysm {Slay+3}

# ? Mar 5, 2017 00:41

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Captain Monkey posted:

Goonsandjokes.txt

the problem with your 'joke' is that it wasn't funny.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 00:49

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

everyone is incredibly mean in this thread

# ? Mar 5, 2017 00:53

Archenteron: Nov 3, 2006

Trunko posted:

Thanks for the advices everyone. I've been off to a good start with a minotaur fighter of okawaru and I managed to get one rune before getting acided to death in elftown

General suggested progression is something like D:10-12, Lair, Orc, Lair Branches, D15, Vault 4, Some Depths, V5, (Slime (Sometimes instead of V5),Elf,Crypt,(Tomb/Abyss/Pan/Hell)), Zot&Run

Elftown was probably a pay grade or two above where you should have been.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 01:06

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Darox posted:

I think when it comes to nerfing things that making something require more investment but retaining its power is more interesting than just making it weaker. I don't think that this is an uncommon sentiment either.

this certainly isn't true in general. 'making something require more investment' is a tool in the designer's arsenal; appropriate in some situations, inappropriate in others. there are many tools in crawl that are very specifically intended to require little investment; throwing nets, for example, or potions. not requiring investment means that these items are good rewards for most characters.

it's been suggested that throwing nets should depend more on Throwing skill, but on the argument that this would encourage more interesting strategic decisions. throwing nets are rare and limited-use enough, however, that it'd very rarely be worthwhile to train Throwing for nets; instead, the main effect would be to restrict throwing nets' use to the small subset of characters that put significant investment into Throwing.

vampirism is a very, very strong brand in a 3-rune game, and one that's useful to most characters who use weapons. neither of those are bad things. the brands aren't intended to be equal in power. if, however, we felt that vampirism was too strong - perhaps because vampirism-branded weapons singlehandedly made 3-rune wins trivial - then we could consider how to improve the situation. making it strictly weaker than at present, while still stronger than other 3-rune brands, would allow us to preserve its role as a brand that's generally good for most characters. (which is part of how weapon types are balanced - lajatangs, for example, have an unusually high change of being generated with 'good' brands...)

for the paranoid: no nerfs to vamp are planned.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 01:09

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

# ? Mar 5, 2017 01:13

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

I Love You! posted:

everyone is incredibly mean in this thread

# ? Mar 5, 2017 01:20

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Fitzy Fitz posted:

We ought to be, since otherwise the Devs live in a hugbox.

Fix Malmutate, bring back the good wands, stop making the game harder

# ? Mar 5, 2017 01:47

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Speleothing posted:

We ought to be, since otherwise the Devs live in a hugbox.

Fix Malmutate, bring back the good wands, stop making the game harder

Good news you don't have to play trunk if you don't want to.

I'm partial to .16 to .18 depending what silly toy I want to play with.

.20 council God is cool though. It rewards drunkenly walking around and into walls.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 02:02

blackflare: Dec 6, 2004; I am a Purrrfect Princess

Speaking of old versions, I found an old copy of crawl, .1.7 on my computer. It's incredibly archaic.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 02:14

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

My biggest problem with WJC is I keep accidentally wallkicking as I'm trying to run away.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 02:22

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

PleasingFungus posted:

this certainly isn't true in general. 'making something require more investment' is a tool in the designer's arsenal; appropriate in some situations, inappropriate in others. there are many tools in crawl that are very specifically intended to require little investment; throwing nets, for example, or potions. not requiring investment means that these items are good rewards for most characters.

it's been suggested that throwing nets should depend more on Throwing skill, but on the argument that this would encourage more interesting strategic decisions. throwing nets are rare and limited-use enough, however, that it'd very rarely be worthwhile to train Throwing for nets; instead, the main effect would be to restrict throwing nets' use to the small subset of characters that put significant investment into Throwing.

Fair, when poison needles got nerfed to require throwing for damage I basically stopped using them entirely. Making something cost an investment effectively removes it for a subset of characters. Sometimes this is fine (sometimes it's the intended result) and sometimes it goes too far. I still prefer that solution to, say, simply halving poison needle effects without giving them throwing scaling.

I don't think the pain brand is quite the same as nets though. Nets are rare and javelins are also pretty rare and consumable, so going deep into throwing if you don't have shoals/large rocks/divine ammo is tough. Pain is certainly very rare to find in the wild, but a god gifts it and a spell grants it and the brand shares a skill with a dozen other useful spells. Games where you don't find any necromancy books are very far and few between.

PleasingFungus posted:

vampirism is a very, very strong brand in a 3-rune game, and one that's useful to most characters who use weapons. neither of those are bad things. the brands aren't intended to be equal in power. if, however, we felt that vampirism was too strong - perhaps because vampirism-branded weapons singlehandedly made 3-rune wins trivial - then we could consider how to improve the situation. making it strictly weaker than at present, while still stronger than other 3-rune brands, would allow us to preserve its role as a brand that's generally good for most characters. (which is part of how weapon types are balanced - lajatangs, for example, have an unusually high change of being generated with 'good' brands...)

for the paranoid: no nerfs to vamp are planned.

I also don't think vamp especially needs a nerf. I don't even think pain really needs buffing either. The issue I have is that vamp infringes on pain in a way that doesn't really affect holy wrath, antimagic or distortion. Those god brands have niches; they have a unique target list and powerful effects where nothing can really replace them.
A pain/vamp hybrid would suck for berserkers (that poor, weak start) but otherwise the intent of my suggestion was not to nerf.

The brand that does need a buff though is protection, that one is real disappointing.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 03:24

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Speleothing posted:

We ought to be, since otherwise the Devs live in a hugbox.

if only...

# ? Mar 5, 2017 05:22

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Scarves should be wearable by felids. I mean seriously

Just mspaint a wizard hat on there.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 08:33

weirdly chilly pussy: Oct 6, 2007

My warper dude continues to have an easy time in hard branches. Tomb was almost leisurely with the combination of lesser beckoning and aura of abjuration. A greater mummy appears? GET OVER HERE! Shoutouts to summon forest and malign gateway.

edit:

code:

16248467 Slobodan the Portalist (level 27, 250/250 (252) HPs)
             Began as a Demigod Warper on Mar 2, 2017.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Mar 5, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 1 day 00:17:33 (96102 turns).

Slobodan the Portalist (Demigod Warper)        Turns: 96102, Time: 1 , 00:17:34

HP:   250/250 (252) AC: 33    Str: 25    XL:     27
MP:   59/59         EV: 30    Int: 34    God:    
Gold: 12023         SH:  9    Dex: 24    Spells: 1/60 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   k - +10 eveningstar "Ronajid" {flame, *Contam Dex+6}
rCold    + + .     Gourm    .   F - quicksilver dragon scales of the Nightingale {rN+ MR+ Str+2}
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   X - +3 buckler {rC+ rF+}
rPois    +         Spirit   .   Z - +1 helmet of Dramatic Exits {rN++ Str-3 Dex+3 Slay+2}
rElec    +         Reflect  .   s - +2 cloak of the Thief {+Fog Slay-2 SInv Stlth+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   l - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
MR       +++..                  z - +3 pair of boots of Tartarus {rF+ rC+}
Stlth    ++........             L - amulet of Vitality {Regen+ HP+15}
Regen    1.0/turn               c - ring "Haedwad" {Wiz rPois rF+ MP+9}
MPRegen  0.4/turn               U - ring "Rihaja Ynomn" {rElec Str+3 Int+7}

@: no status effects
A: thin metallic scales 1, blurry vision 1, deterioration 1, dopey 1, frail 1,
high mp 1, mutation resistance 1, wild magic 3, no potion heal 1
0: Orb of Zot
}: 15/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer
a: Evoke Fog

code:

Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Shadow Creatures      Summ           N/A          1%          6    None
b - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ########..   1%          2    None
c - Force Lance           Conj/Tloc      ########     1%          4    None
d - Apportation           Tloc           ######       1%          1    None
e - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #######...   1%          3    None
f - Slow                  Hex            #######.     1%          2    None
g - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          2%          8    #####..
h - Gell's Gravitas       Tloc           #########.   1%          3    None
i - Lesser Beckoning      Tloc           #########.   1%          3    None
j - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
k - Summon Forest         Summ/Tloc      ########..   1%          5    None
l - Aura of Abjuration    Summ           ########..   1%          5    None
m - Malign Gateway        Summ/Tloc      ########..   1%          7    ####...
n - Animate Dead          Necr           N/A          2%          4    None
p - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       #######.     2%          3    None
q - Summon Butterflies    Summ           ########     1%          1    None

I could've used more firepower against the pan and hell lords, but I only had to ninja Ereshkigal. A fun playthrough even without god powers to mess with.

weirdly chilly pussy fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Mar 5, 2017

# ? Mar 5, 2017 09:59

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

I Love You! posted:

everyone is incredibly mean in this thread

Someone cast Discord and we all failed our MR check.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 12:28

meatpath: Feb 13, 2003

Coming back from hiatus - are these now obsolete as rc file additions?

code:

confirm_butcher = never
easy_eat_chunks = true
auto_eat_chunks = true
auto_drop_chunks = rotten

# ? Mar 5, 2017 17:32

Emmideer: Oct 20, 2011; Lovely night, no?; Grimey Drawer

Wu Jian council is amazing. I just did Vaults 5 without moving back up the stairs once.

# ? Mar 5, 2017 21:47

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Sometimes, you're honestly surprised you survive. I cleared this with flying colors, but do embarrassingly poorly against a D:14 centaur warrior.

And immediately after this post I die to a lone spark wasp.

LordSloth fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Mar 6, 2017

# ? Mar 6, 2017 02:33

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:13

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

This was a very good D3. 10/10 would immediately go for the downstair again.

# ? Mar 6, 2017 02:44

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