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aaaaand thread closed there we go, let's shove that under the rug --/r/amd mods
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Mar 5, 2017 10:20
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The Stilt, who had some solid stuff on Ryzen over at Anandtech, is just starting some investigations on the potential scheduling issue. As of now, his assumption is Windows 10 is not playing nice with Ryzen, with his Windows 7 experience being better. Data set small so far. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/page-8#post-38775732 It's a delta of about 8%, which is eerily as much as it's behind the 6900K, and just as much the difference in a previous post of SMT on/off. Also it's looking like Ryzen is running into the exact same problems Sandy-EP 8C.16Ts run into. Programs are treating the CCXs as monolithic and shuffling data back and forth constantly between them, and running into Ryzens interconnect problem (22GB/s vs Intels 38GB/s), which is also tied to the IMC, faster RAM seems to alleviate the scheduling problem because the BIOs seems to be tying Infinity Fabric speeds to RAM speeds, because gently caress you. The CPU design is fine, everything else is currently on fire.
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Mar 5, 2017 11:16
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Would be cool if someone did the OBS test again and included the AMD encoder so we could just compare the videos side by side on YouTube.
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Mar 5, 2017 11:35
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Wouldn't the YouTube encoding gently caress that? And  re: death threats. He's grading for games, so he gets to tell you the best CPU for games. It's not loving productivity nexus.For this being a gay dead forum, it's much nicer than the rest of the internet.
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Mar 5, 2017 11:50
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Besides keeping Lowtax's kids hopped up on dew and doritos,  does have benefits with regards to weeding out the real fuckers on the internet.Still, I think I'm vindicated in saying that something reeked ahead of time. Looks like we're waiting for a patch just like when they hotfixed the scheduler for Bulldozer. =P Either that, or disable SMT while gaming. =P SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 11:59
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PCGH has some interesting graphs on 720p core scaling, too bad they didn't add min fps. Quadcores aren't looking so hot.   3 more game graphs here The main thing that keeps me interested in Ryze is that it offers great price/performance value for a platform with ECC support. (in a few months, when the launch mess is fixed)
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Mar 5, 2017 12:10
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Jay has a pretty good run-down of Ryzen. It's pretty scathing, but he's too nice to say something polemic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE4sxXva9Eg These BIOS issues look insane. NewFatMike posted:Wouldn't the YouTube encoding gently caress that?
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Mar 5, 2017 12:28
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The Hexcore config looks abnormally strong in comparison to the quad, WTF. Not enough comparison CPUs in the chart to make conclusions.
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Mar 5, 2017 12:28
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ufarn posted:Jay has a pretty good run-down of Ryzen. It's pretty scathing, but he's too nice to say something polemic: well, you have to treat AMD fans gingerly or they will go all dahmer on you
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Mar 5, 2017 12:35
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FaustianQ posted:The Hexcore config looks abnormally strong in comparison to the quad, WTF. Not enough comparison CPUs in the chart to make conclusions. I am going to guess that this is because the 6-core has the 20MB cache of the 8-core parts. I'm sure there are also some other bandwidth related advantages from having two dies with one core deactivated on each but those advantages go way over my head. They don't mention SMT so perhaps there's also a scheduling bug affecting some configuration.  Hopefully they don't intentionally gimp the 6-core because it looks like stock vs stock, the 1600X would be as fast if not faster than the 1700X for current games. Add more potential overclocking headroom from the lower TDP and it looks like a winner. The 8-core only launch makes more and more sense every day. Shame about the quads.
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Mar 5, 2017 13:02
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The AMD fanboy hasn't been the same since irony died a quick and uneventful death 
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Mar 5, 2017 13:10
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Paul MaudDib posted:well, you have to treat AMD fans gingerly or they will go all dahmer on you The stealthier AMD fanboys that aren't on r/AMD are far more entertaining than the latter riff-raff. I'm not going to say any names, but there is a guy on AT forums who would write pages-long dissertations about how much of a loving nvidiot you are for buying a $250 GTX 1060 instead of a RX480, and then move on to another post about how it's your own goddamn fault for not earning 6-figures like the anesthesiologist next door in Amurica to pay for better PC hardware.
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Mar 5, 2017 13:59
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ufarn posted:
I understand now. I am not really familiar with Twitch encoding, I wasn't sure if your original post was a  Anime Schoolgirl posted:The AMD fanboy hasn't been the same since irony died a quick and uneventful death I think this also speaks to the death of nuance. I mean at least for once AMD have a good value proposition CPU IFF: You do CPU intensive tasks, not just games. Or do other things while games play. You don't have the budget for equivalent performance Intel CPUs since the platform is cheaper, too. You don't need a ton of I/O. Especially if you can wait a few months while the Windows drivers get... You know... Made. I mean how the hell do some fuckwads think it's the end of days if their preferred manufacturer doesn't somehow ascend in all categories? Yeesh. I mean I guess it takes a certain kind of masochist (yours truly included) to root for the underdog for so long, but who knew that for so many it included mental deficits like what we're seeing. It's loving sand! It's enough to make you think that  Is the norm. Eugh. Let's just go back to bed and recheck the benches in a month or two.
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Mar 5, 2017 15:05
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Its interesting that Jayz got a board bricked. This is not the first time I read about this for this new ASUS Crosshair mobo. Also, Chews journey with the Gigabyte 5 is interesting to read. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?293130-Ryzen-Return-of-the-Jedi&p=5254424&viewfull=1#post5254424 MORE LEDS!! I think I'll get an ASROCK. At least they keep sending BIOSes out after the first year.. Btw, does anyone have any experience with Biostar as a company?
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Mar 5, 2017 15:14
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Indeed, Asrock seems to be the safest bet by a country mile. As for Biostar, this is new territory for them, reaching up into the premium board market. The last time I built a system, they were firmly in the "Dumpsterville, Population: ECS" category, so who knows if they'll actually do the things that a premium board maker needs to do. I also agree we should just step away until Ryzen 5 parts and maybe that scheduler hotfix comes out.
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Mar 5, 2017 15:16
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eames posted:PCGH has some interesting graphs on 720p core scaling, too bad they didn't add min fps. Quadcores aren't looking so hot. Please don't forget to rehost images, pcgameshardware.de doesn't do HTTPS so the image was not loading.
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Mar 5, 2017 15:18
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SwissArmyDruid posted:"Dumpsterville, Population: ECS" category I was going to say "What about PC Chips as well?" But it turns out ECS and PC Chips merged in 2005. What a quality combination.
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Mar 5, 2017 15:20
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HalloKitty posted:I was going to say "What about PC Chips as well?" But it turns out ECS and PC Chips merged in 2005. What a quality combination. Stale bread and a sun bleached turd, two great tastes that taste great together!
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Mar 5, 2017 15:27
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I also agree we should just step away until Ryzen 5 parts and maybe that scheduler hotfix comes out. I must build inside March, guess I'm a beta tester..  Wish me luck..T_T
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Mar 5, 2017 15:33
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About that delliding.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz_-Q5QzRqg
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Mar 5, 2017 15:39
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And it seems like "The Joker" may be joking after all...lol https://imgur.com/gallery/nLSrCxz
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Mar 5, 2017 15:42
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Our lord and savior from FAKE BENCHMARKS joker might be lying to us?
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Mar 5, 2017 15:52
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And...another brick in the wall.. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5xn51g/my_asus_crosshair_vi_hero_got_bricked/
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Mar 5, 2017 16:02
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AMD themselves confirmed that Zen singlethread IPC is ~7-8% behind Kaby Lake plus the sizeable clockspeed delta plus some more performance from SMT glitches, scheduling and unoptimized drivers/BIOS versions. I don't know why people are still giving this random youtube troll exposure.Measly Twerp posted:Please don't forget to rehost images, pcgameshardware.de doesn't do HTTPS so the image was not loading. Yeah I normally do. I had the image attached to the post, lost it after pressing "Preview" and then couldn't be bothered to upload it to imgur again. Anyway, 3Dcenter compiled a nice chart comparing a few gaming tests.  source: http://www.3dcenter.org
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Mar 5, 2017 17:17
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Hopefully no one buying an expensive 8core processor wastes time with sub-1440p gaming. Tests at 1080p or 720p, really? I know they bring out the differences between CPU's, but who cares when it doesn't matter in practice with 1440p+ gaming? Maybe one day they make a fast enough GPU so you're cpu bound again. Can't wait to see how Ryzen performs with Windows drivers & scheduler tweaks, updated games, final bios/motherboards & good memory. For now it looks like there's quite a lot performance left on the table. That's not too surprising though, it happens all the time with AMD's gpu's too. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 17:45
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Ihmemies posted:Hopefully no one buying an expensive 8core processor wastes time with sub-1440p gaming. Tests at 1080p or 720p, really? I know they bring out the differences between CPU's, but who cares when it doesn't matter in practice with 1440p+ gaming? Maybe one day they make a fast enough GPU so you're cpu bound again. Source your quotes.
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Mar 5, 2017 17:57
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Yea dude CPU tests should totally be done in a way that actually only tests the graphics card, you're totally right.
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Mar 5, 2017 17:58
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Ihmemies posted:Hopefully no one buying an expensive 8core processor wastes time with sub-1440p gaming. Tests at 1080p or 720p, really? I know they bring out the differences between CPU's, but who cares when it doesn't matter in practice with 1440p+ gaming? Maybe one day they make a fast enough GPU so you're cpu bound again. The only way to test a processor for gaming is to provide a - partly unrealistic, ok - CPU bottleneck. This is done by removing AA and resolution while keeping the other graphical settings up. Thus, your CPU has to work overdrive so as to keep up with the huge number of frames that the GPU is providing in such a setup. The relevance of such a test for real life scenarios goes as follows: A CPU that performs markedly worse in such an environment will have reduced lifetime performance and endurance for the consumer, since gamers tend to change GPUs faster than CPUs and a future upgrade together with more demanding games will introduce a bottleneck (and a worse real life performance) faster. Having said that, there is a benefit for the consumer to also see gaming testing in real life scenarios too, simply because these will be his own experience if he purchases the product. For this reason, I value reviews that tend to show performance in both scenarios. Remember, the gaming reviews are in the end trying to extrapolate holistic gaming performance by focusing on the specific object rated, be that a monitor, a GPU, a CPU etc. What you get now by using this or that is still valuable info, since PC gamers tend to use many different resolutions, aspect ratios, monitor refresh rates etc etc. At the same time, there has been an argument around concerning gaming for some time now (I think since the bulldozer architecture was introduced). This goes like "as time passes by, game engines and APIs take advantage of more parallelization thus a good performer right now is not as valid as we might think, unless it has the spare resources (that current games don't utilize and future games will) to be "future-proof". This is a loaded argument, for two reasons. 1. The guys that really value gaming performance and do stay at the enthusiast part of the market follow closely the changes in both software and hardware. The whole idea of futureproofing is moot for someone that his main task is gaming and is regularly changing a 700$ GPU every year or so. Those people will simply buy what gives them the best performance every month. 2. The other (non enthusiast) parts of the gaming market - which btw make up the majority of it as far as software sales are concerned - use a lot more modest hardware (take a look at the averages in steam for resolution, CPUs, GPUs etc to understand what I am talking about). Also, they change hardware much slower than the enthusiast segment. The software providers know this very well, and the rate of adoption on tech that destroys their own client base's ability to pay them is - not surprisingly - much slower than the "future is now, gently caress you intel, your expensive four cores will stutter in a year or so" crowd wants to admit. Somewhere inside the whole debacle there is an additional argument about the software market being driven by the consoles that have that many cores so in the future the games will--- but I'm really tired of typing now. gently caress it. Dante80 fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 18:05
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Ihmemies posted:Hopefully no one buying an expensive 8core processor wastes time with sub-1440p gaming. Tests at 1080p or 720p, really? I know they bring out the differences between CPU's, but who cares when it doesn't matter in practice with 1440p+ gaming? Maybe one day they make a fast enough GPU so you're cpu bound again. Irrelevant. We're trying to see the difference between CPUs here, not simply a flat graph with GPU bottlenecked results.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:09
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Ihmemies posted:Maybe one day they make a fast enough GPU so you're cpu bound again. I know everyone is jumping down your throat, but short answer: yes, this. Exactly.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:16
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HalloKitty posted:Irrelevant. We're trying to see the difference between CPUs here, not simply a flat graph with GPU bottlenecked results. Well what is the point? Vulkan, DX12 etc. mean games require even less from a CPU in future, also consoles etc. push the games to use more threads than before. Of course no one can see the future, but my guess (worth $0) is that a 8C Ryzen is good enough for gaming now and still after a few years, while being a lot better in productivity & multitasking than a 4 core Intel. A rich guy would buy two PC's, but when you have to get by with just one relatively cheap one, I'd get a Ryzen. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 18:16
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Ihmemies posted:Can't wait to see how Ryzen performs with Windows drivers & scheduler tweaks, updated games, final bios/motherboards & good memory. For now it looks like there's quite a lot performance left on the table. That's not too surprising though, it happens all the time with AMD's gpu's too. How will you see that if it's GPU-constrained?
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Mar 5, 2017 18:17
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Subjunctive posted:How will you see that if it's GPU-constrained? Encoding, rendering, photo/video editing and other CPU-bound tasks? SMT's and thread scheduling, fast memory support etc. seemed to be a mess at the moment.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:20
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Ihmemies posted:Well what is the point? Vulkan, DX12 etc. mean games require even less from a CPU in future, also consoles etc. push the games to use more threads than before. Of course no one can see the future, but my guess (worth $0) is that a 8C Ryzen is good enough for gaming now and still after a few years, while being a lot better in productivity & multitasking than a 4 core Intel. A rich guy would buy two PC's, but when you have to get by with just one relatively cheap one, I'd get a Ryzen. Ryzen is definitely good enough for gaming now, and better at multitasking and productivity, for a great price, no arguing that. I agree also that it's a problem that people misinterpret the benchmark data, assuming that a CPU bottleneck scenario is typical of their gaming loads at higher resolutions, which is a valid point. But it still doesn't mean you should generally benchmark with a bottleneck in a component other than the one being tested. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 18:22
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Dante80 posted:2. The other (non enthusiast) parts of the gaming market - which btw make up the majority of it as far as software sales are concerned - use a lot more modest hardware (take a look at the averages in steam for resolution, CPUs, GPUs etc to understand what I am talking about). Also, they change hardware much slower than the enthusiast segment. The software providers know this very well, and the rate of adoption on tech that destroys their own client base's ability to pay them is - not surprisingly - much slower than the "future is now, gently caress you intel, your expensive four cores will stutter in a year or so" crowd wants to admit. Hell, how much of the market is still dual-core, and how long has it taken for quad-core to become more prolific? I didn't even get a quad core chip until 2013.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:24
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Yes. My C2D still runs games valiantly. Wish I did get the Q6600 back then though.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:30
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Hell, how much of the market is still dual-core, and how long has it taken for quad-core to become more prolific? I didn't even get a quad core chip until 2013. I was curious so I took a look at some historical Steam HW survey data. Feb 2009 - 15% quad core May 2011 - 26% quad core Feb 2013 - 43% quad core Feb 2017 - 48% quad core
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Mar 5, 2017 18:47
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Ihmemies posted:Encoding, rendering, photo/video editing and other CPU-bound tasks? SMT's and thread scheduling, fast memory support etc. seemed to be a mess at the moment. Then why do you want updated games? Are they CPU-limited at 1440/4K now, such that Ryzen optimizations would show up?
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Mar 5, 2017 19:02
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Well I'm an odd case I guess but I just upgraded from a quad core q9550@3.4 to a dual core g4560  My friend is still on her core 2 duo and it holds up well for most things she plays. Which is mostly no mans sky and sims 3.
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Mar 5, 2017 19:20
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ufarn posted:Jay has a pretty good run-down of Ryzen. It's pretty scathing, but he's too nice to say something polemic: Twitch and youtube aren't at all alike. Twitch gives you a ton of leeway with your settings without reencoding, which means you can just do your comparisons locally, and it's readily apparent that GPU encoding blows.
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Mar 5, 2017 19:36
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