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Jack Gladney posted:Twitter just seems like such a bad means of expression. It's just void-shouting with a high probability of being misunderstood and of understanding others. I don't see why people use it for anything other than sharing events and information. It's for memes and jokes and making fun of people.
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Mar 5, 2017 01:23
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its a platform for high school junk and also because you can have a wide broadcast without having to actually have a mutual relationship with someone (follower vs followee)
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Mar 5, 2017 01:26
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Jack Gladney posted:Twitter just seems like such a bad means of expression. It's just void-shouting with a high probability of being misunderstood and of understanding others. I don't see why people use it for anything other than sharing events and information. A quality life comes at you fast duet of pictures is the platonic ideal of a twitter post.
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Mar 5, 2017 02:48
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Jack Gladney posted:Twitter just seems like such a bad means of expression. It's just void-shouting with a high probability of being misunderstood and of understanding others. I don't see why people use it for anything other than sharing events and information. don't be jelly that I think up the best memes, comradebro
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Mar 5, 2017 02:59
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Ace of Baes posted:[snip] OK. How about the words of a friend of mine who literally told me today that DSA "is not a place I feel welcome bc their social media is so misogynistic"? You can't say it's not a thing, because it is a thing.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:11
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:OK. How about the words of a friend of mine who literally told me today that DSA "is not a place I feel welcome bc their social media is so misogynistic"? You can't say it's not a thing, because it is a thing. I follow a bunch of DSA people on twitter and haven't seen any misogyny, do you have any examples of what you're talking about?
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Mar 5, 2017 05:24
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and i wanna be clear that im not concern trolling or tone policing or whatever, i'm saying that this is a symptom of a problem and a thing that is actively hurting the org. Connor K's transphobia is a problem. Reacting to Bad Takes by sending death threats is a problem. *pinches the bridge of her nose for a bit* jesus it's not like i'm saying the DSA is horrible, I'm here and in committees and workgroups and a fuckin' OC and being the intersectional cool and good change I want to see in the world and in the organization. I'm saying that some people who are either DSA members or taking on the signifiers of DSA membership are doing things that are, at the very least, not helping the movement and it would be good if we - you, me, us, our comrades - avoid doing those things ourselves and, if we know someone who is doing them, take a little time to talk to them about what's going on and what prompted these things and why they're not helping and what they could do instead. my name is chicken of tomorrow and I pledge that:
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Mar 5, 2017 05:32
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I call people out when they racism or sexism irl constantly because Im a big bearded dude and my own boss and a VETERAN  so idgaf if I piss people offI grew up in a black area and have hung w. black and LGBT ppl my whole life so it sets me off lol
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Mar 5, 2017 05:38
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Ace of Baes posted:I follow a bunch of DSA people on twitter and haven't seen any misogyny, do you have any examples of what you're talking about? The #twitter and #lgbtq channels on RC have covered this - log in and check the last 18-24hrs in #twitter for discussion.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:41
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I also get mad when ppl try to deflect class issues with identity politics because class shapes all human experience so it's necessary in order to improve the matireal conditions of marginalized ppl and libs and neolibs use it as a go to tactic, so sorry if in defensive
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Mar 5, 2017 05:41
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:The #twitter and #lgbtq channels on RC have covered this - log in and check the last 18-24hrs in #twitter for discussion. I don't have rocketchat, if I did I probably wouldn't have time for it, im a full time student and work 2 jobs and have a baby and also do some organizing irl with people I worked with during the Election
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Mar 5, 2017 05:42
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:OK. How about the words of a friend of mine who literally told me today that DSA "is not a place I feel welcome bc their social media is so misogynistic"? You can't say it's not a thing, because it is a thing. Tell them to report these people or at least name names so we can try to do something about them. Which accounts? Which posts? The people in this thread probably aren't your targets (or maybe they are) but if its an issue that's important to you, we should try to do something about it. Get the info, let's see what we can do to behave (or at least get them to stop pretending to speak for the DSA when they say their bullshit). I would be quite happy for this thread to be a center for shutting down violent misogyny and keeping the DSA open and welcoming and a place everyone can feel safe and fairly treated. Edit: Although it sounds like the DSAchat is already on this? Does it look like they'll be taking any action? ChickenOfTomorrow posted:and i wanna be clear that im not concern trolling or tone policing or whatever, i'm saying that this is a symptom of a problem and a thing that is actively hurting the org. Connor K's transphobia is a problem. Reacting to Bad Takes by sending death threats is a problem. That's first part is true (although hyperbole doesn't help, and there's a significant difference between a death wish, "I hope you die" and a death threat, "I'm gonna kill you". This was the first. Still bad! Calling things by their actual names reduces the chance of people getting caught up on details and makes the followup action easier to determine). quote:jesus it's not like i'm saying the DSA is horrible, I'm here and in committees and workgroups and a fuckin' OC and being the intersectional cool and good change I want to see in the world and in the organization. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 05:48 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 05:43
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also if you try and eat the rich at least ask for some A1, jesus christ we aren't heathens here
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Mar 5, 2017 05:45
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I don't think I'll ever have enough people here for a genuine chapter but after the call on the 24th I'm going to go back and forth with some of the organizers about getting started in the Virgin Islands. the climate here is ready for the DSA since the governor is such a corrupt piece of poo poo and there's a clear divide between the capital and labor classes. at the very least we can bust the all-white stereotype cause it's like 15% white down here.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:47
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HiHo ChiRho posted:also if you try and eat the rich at least ask for some A1, jesus christ we aren't heathens here That's precisely why you don't use A1. If you do, you'll drown out the natural flavor and practically ruin a great cut of meat. And don't anyone say they want it well done with ketchup.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:51
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MizPiz posted:That's precisely why you don't use A1. If you do, you'll drown out the natural flavor and practically ruin a great cut of meat. some, like normal leftists, naturally detest the taste of the rich yet know their duty. don't eatshame.
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Mar 5, 2017 05:54
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Ace of Baes posted:I also get mad when ppl try to deflect class issues with identity politics because class shapes all human experience so it's necessary in order to improve the matireal conditions of marginalized ppl and libs and neolibs use it as a go to tactic, so sorry if in defensive ok, i get what you're saying and where you're coming from. its valid to be wary of bikeshedding and derails  i'm pushing for our fully automated luxury communist future to also be explicitly free of racism and sexism and cissexism and etc because its important to me that my queer and trans and lady and PoC friends aren't alienated and will get to enjoy the same level of utopia, and i worry that isms will find a way to sneak in even once we crush capitalism. ChickenOfTomorrow has issued a correction as of 06:27 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 06:25
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ChickenOfTomorrow you seem like a super-good person and I am glad you are willing to post in this thread about this sort of thing, it might not be the most important issue of the day but it needs to be addressed sooner than later. It avails us nothing not to believe victims and address their problems. Regardless of if the people responsible are representative of the DSA or not, it's important to show unequivocally that we will not stand for it. I would hope anyone who is still scared off after that finds their own way to action, even if it's not with the DSA. Speaking personally, I've spent too long telling myself not to get involved with this thing or that because I didn't like the people involved. So far it's been a great way to watch the world burn while I did jack poo poo. I joined the DSA because it was the biggest and fastest growing, and I felt and feel mass action is the only way forward. That's not to say we should excuse lovely people. It means those people will always show up eventually and we can't shrink away because of it, we just have to be ready to confront and deal with them when they pop up. Of course I'm still super new and don't have rocketchat access so everything I've said could be talking out my rear end or already addressed. 
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Mar 5, 2017 09:48
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Watching people on Facebook reply to questions like "what's your position with regard to X? I'm interested in joining but I need to know first" is kind of annoying. It feels like late capitalism has managed to hit left politics the hardest; people treating these things like commodities. "Any party or group I join needs a little bit of X, a lot of Y, and a base of Z, or I will not be associated with them" I mean unless there's some core part of a parties or groups platform that's irreconcilable to you, why not join the organization you believe stands for the same things you do. If it doesn't have a clear stance on something, why not take action and work to define that stance?
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Mar 5, 2017 16:59
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HiHo ChiRho posted:some, like normal leftists, naturally detest the taste of the rich yet know their duty. don't eatshame. Much like poultry, the rich are filthy filthy, stupid stupid animals. When preparing them for consumption make sure you cook them to at least 163 degrees Fahrenheit, because they're full of disgusting critters and you don't want to be responsible for making your comrades sick.
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Mar 5, 2017 17:06
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because like you said, its treated like a commodity. they assume it's something immutable and that anything they do will have no influence on it, much like you can't change a vacuum you but at walmart. it's pretty much the perfect summary of political dissociation in the US
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Mar 5, 2017 17:08
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What's the DSA position on burritos. Are they a fruit or vegetable?
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Mar 5, 2017 17:19
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Real talk: If there is a problem with DSA members harassing women, GLBTs or POCs maybe we should put together a working group to deal with it. If it's a general internet thing then having individual chapters dealing with it might not make the most sense. And this month isn't there some kind of national organizational meeting?
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Mar 5, 2017 17:39
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lancemantis posted:Watching people on Facebook reply to questions like "what's your position with regard to X? I'm interested in joining but I need to know first" is kind of annoying. It feels like late capitalism has managed to hit left politics the hardest; people treating these things like commodities. I mean I get where you're coming from but at the same time, nobody actually knowing what socialism is or what it stands for beyond invading America in Kurt Russell movies is very intentional. Treating the DSA like a commodity is a way to connect with people and persuading people to our side. It isn't a coincidence that people are flirting with the DSA because of insanely spicy leftist memes and the rise of Chapo and Jacobin. We need normies in the revolution too.
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Mar 5, 2017 18:04
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Any space coast (Brevard, FL) goons here interested in meeting? I know there's an Orlando chapter but something more local would be cool maybe?
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Mar 5, 2017 18:50
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The left is largely allergic to talking about values. The centrists worry people might not share them ans so keep them secret (also they are right) and the far left seems to have forgotten they are supposed to have them in favour of pure oppositional defiance. Without shared values and a willingness to talk about them, commidified issues are exactly what you get, because it allows us to agree on the things we should pursue without conflict or disagreement in regards to the details of why they are worth pursuing until its too late and people realize their values arent being represented at all So talk values. Go beyond issues and make this people not just for that reason, but because the org is open to being shaped by those who share the underlying values
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Mar 5, 2017 19:35
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lancemantis posted:Watching people on Facebook reply to questions like "what's your position with regard to X? I'm interested in joining but I need to know first" is kind of annoying. It feels like late capitalism has managed to hit left politics the hardest; people treating these things like commodities. People do this on the right as well. Church shopping is totally a thing for Protestants and has been for a long time. It's human nature to want to want to find a group just like you rather than doing some introspection and considering whether your closely held beliefs are true.
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Mar 5, 2017 19:41
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:If there is a problem with DSA members harassing women, GLBTs or POCs maybe we should put together a working group to deal with it. please stop with the identity politics (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 5, 2017 21:20
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zegermans posted:please stop with the identity politics 
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Mar 5, 2017 22:02
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https://twitter.com/LarryWebsite/status/838523251366244352
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Mar 5, 2017 23:58
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I'm sure that would be nice, but you're going to need to be more pragmatic about your politics. / 
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Mar 6, 2017 00:52
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:Connor K's transphobia is a problem. the thing about the internet today is that it's the world's most ridiculous game of telephone. somebody comes up with a legitimate gripe about a person of some stature, it passes around to other people, and it eventually turns into a blunt accusation that's repeated as fact. twitter is stupid, you shouldn't take anything people say there seriously, and you should be skeptical if people point to "this person on twitter said" as evidence of someone's shittiness
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Mar 6, 2017 02:03
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Even if someone does say or do something lovely, as long as it's not unforgivable and they cop it I don't really have an issue with it. Holding leftist to a crazy standard only helps conservatives and liberals who get away with using literal racial slurs and enact policies that hurt lgbtq/racial minorities.
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Mar 6, 2017 02:47
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A great example is libs pulling out stuff Keith Ellison said 30 years ago in college but defending Hillary call black children super predators.
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Mar 6, 2017 02:48
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it makes me sad when I follow someone on twitter and they have a lot of very good Marxist/leftist takes and praxis and then WHOOMPH we get chavismo out of nowhere. chavists are like Tankie Lite.
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Mar 6, 2017 03:36
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turns out everyone has some Wrong Opinions its just how you react when someone calls you out on them
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Mar 6, 2017 03:50
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lancemantis posted:turns out everyone has some Wrong Opinions the real issue is how to drive the leftward movement forward while not feeding the assholes
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Mar 6, 2017 04:32
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Conclusion: Police shithead socialists online and irl, don't feed into libs attempting to distract from how evil and destructive capitalism is.
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Mar 6, 2017 04:34
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Mar 6, 2017 04:41
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Ace of Baes posted:Conclusion: Police shithead socialists online and irl, don't feed into libs attempting to distract from how evil and destructive capitalism is.
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