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mormonpartyboat posted:ah yes, the "guns are so easy to get, black people would rather shoot each other than get a job" meme There are no jobs, in part because gun violence drives out businesses.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:10
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Concerned Citizen posted:There are no jobs, in part because gun violence drives out businesses. oh no the black people shot all the jobs!!!!! for no reason!!!!!
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Mar 6, 2017 16:13
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guns dont kill people, they kill employment rates!!!!!!
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Mar 6, 2017 16:13
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mormonpartyboat posted:oh no the black people shot all the jobs!!!!! for no reason!!!!! Are you making an argument or just posting retarded poo poo
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Mar 6, 2017 16:15
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The problem with the debates on gun control is that it has distracted from the debate that you probably don't need a gun. Guns are the new smoking, imo, and until we change the conversation on guns, we're not going to make any progress. Also, gun control isn't about going after people's guns so I don't see how that's going to disproportionally be levied against people who aren't in power. It's about choking off the supply and changing people's minds about the idea that more guns will solve problems. It's going to be a multi-generational battle since the NRA has convinced a good bit of the nation that guns solve problems and its your god-given right to conceal carry guns into nursery schools and college campuses. It's anecdotal but we now have people in the South using gun violence immunity laws to incite people into violence to make it ok to kill the person in "self defense". At the very very least we need a Congress that will restore funding to the CDC to study gun related deaths.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:17
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Concerned Citizen posted:Are you making an argument or just posting retarded poo poo lol
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Mar 6, 2017 16:19
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tadashi posted:The problem with the debates on gun control is that it has distracted from the debate that you probably don't need a gun. Guns are the new smoking, imo, and until we change the conversation on guns, we're not going to make any progress. the core discussion change that needs to happen is treating gun violence as a stochastic symptom of environmental effects, rather than looking solely at what grabs the most headlines or what's spookiest to the average idiot american gun crime is caused by ~things~ and instead of addressing the actual act of someone shooting someone else, the causal elements that lead to that situation need to be attacked that's why ending the war on drugs (and blanket record clearing for non-violent drug offenses etc) is such a huge deal; the economic impact of having that on your record coupled with racist police enforcement cause a massive choke on minority neighborhoods. the drug war looms over and prevents any attempts to reintroduce opportunity and economic mobility for the average person in the worst neighborhoods
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Mar 6, 2017 16:24
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zegermans posted:The crux of the problem is Bad Dems try to play by the rules in accomplishing progress when, surprise, the rules were put in place to keep progress from happening, and Bad Dems keep not understanding (or intentionally ignoring) that they're the only ones trying to follow these rules. It reminds me of games I played with my big sister where the rules constantly changed to benefit her and I was too dumb to get it. I fell for this most recently with the Sessions thing It turns out that in 21st century GOP politics, it doesn't matter if someone is caught lying under oath if the people who would be responsible for prosecuting him don't want to do it because it would make their friends look bad. Laws are now subordinate to Party Politics, and I was dumb for ever thinking that might not be the case.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:33
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the most effective gun policy imo would be to just ban all handguns from civilian use and let everyone have all the shotguns and rifles they want but good luck getting around Heller
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Mar 6, 2017 16:34
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The drug war is real bad but it's just one factor that causes gun violence. The homicide rate prior to the war on drugs was significantly higher than it is today. It came as a response to violence, it did not spring up on its own. Gun availability itself is an environmental factor, and if guns are common in the right environment it can serve as an amplifying effect that brings communities to their knees. It's also a factor that contributes to racist over-policing as it justifies expenditures for militarized police operations. It's all interrelated and they need to be tackled at the same time.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:36
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Raskolnikov38 posted:the most effective gun policy imo would be to just ban all handguns from civilian use and let everyone have all the shotguns and rifles they want but good luck getting around Heller Yeah, the reality is that Dems don't go nearly far enough. Handguns are ideal for crime and that's where the real threat is - not assault weapons.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:38
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Raskolnikov38 posted:the most effective gun policy imo would be to just ban all handguns from civilian use and let everyone have all the shotguns and rifles they want but good luck getting around Heller implementation and enforcement of this would end up with more dead people than letting people keep their guns
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Mar 6, 2017 16:41
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I don't really like arguing about guns because when it comes down to it I actually agree with CC, I'm just worried it's an albatross. That said, the handgun angle is an interesting one. I'm not convinced it wouldn't just escalate gun crime by forcing gun criminals to use more dangerous guns, but it's hard to hide a rifle in your pants waistband, Gun Hobbyists would probably be happy if you let them keep their expensive toys and coyote-killing tools, and Home Defense Fetishists would probably be satisfied with shotguns. Unfortunately I dunno if there's any data to be found about how much something like this would actually accomplish.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:45
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zegermans posted:The crux of the problem is Bad Dems try to play by the rules in accomplishing progress when, surprise, the rules were put in place to keep progress from happening, and Bad Dems keep not understanding (or intentionally ignoring) that they're the only ones trying to follow these rules. It reminds me of games I played with my big sister where the rules constantly changed to benefit her and I was too dumb to get it. It's the bolded one.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:47
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Chris rock was right
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Mar 6, 2017 16:52
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loquacius posted:I don't really like arguing about guns because when it comes down to it I actually agree with CC, I'm just worried it's an albatross. You can tell Dems treat gun-control as a pointless wedge issue as opposed to an attempt to actually do anything by them consistently targeting the guns least used in crime and also never mentioning police violence.
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Mar 6, 2017 16:56
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:You can tell Dems treat gun-control as a pointless wedge issue as opposed to an attempt to actually do anything by them consistently targeting the guns least used in crime and also never mentioning police violence. assault weapons are v spooky
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Mar 6, 2017 17:03
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Zyla posted:democrats sghould get good hit the gym and find new leaders
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Mar 6, 2017 17:04
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well they pokemon go to the polls so u think theyd be capable enough of finding some gym leaders to beat and take their place
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Mar 6, 2017 17:04
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https://twitter.com/DaniellaMicaela/status/838782235444711424
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Mar 6, 2017 17:06
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Alter Ego posted:How are you still not getting that using the Russia story as a long-term strategy is a terrible, terrible idea? You're arguing with a strawman. Nobody's suggesting Democrats should talk about nothing but Russia forever. It's still obviously the right thing to be talking about now.
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Mar 6, 2017 17:12
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loquacius posted:I fell for this most recently with the Sessions thing I'm also reminded of the James clapper thing where he lied under oath about surveillance of us citizes. If you are powerful in this country you don't really face consequences. About the worst that happens is you become toxic publically and have to resign to a lucrative lobbying career.
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Mar 6, 2017 17:14
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JeffersonClay posted:Nobody's suggesting Democrats should talk about nothing but Russia forever. But they will do this.
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Mar 6, 2017 17:25
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the same SXSW that's gonna report to ICE to seize any illegal performers and attendees? huh, how about that
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Mar 6, 2017 17:33
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Lastgirl posted:the same SXSW that's gonna report to ICE to seize any illegal performers and attendees? excuse me missy but democrats without respect for the rule of law are j- *vomits blood*
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Mar 6, 2017 17:44
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Lastgirl posted:well they pokemon go to the polls so u think theyd be capable enough of finding some gym leaders to beat and take their place The only challenging Gym leaders have been Sabrina (bc Psychic was broken in RBGY), Whitney (Miltank fuq ur poo poo) and Elesa (fuckin Volt-Switch Electric/Flying  )
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Mar 6, 2017 17:53
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JeffersonClay posted:You're arguing with a strawman. Nobody's suggesting Democrats should talk about nothing but Russia forever. It's still obviously the right thing to be talking about now. It's something that should be discussed because it's a genuine national security/foreign policy issue: the Administration would appear to be compromised by a foreign power on multiple levels. That said, the Dems must not rely on this as part of their electoral strategy, because it is unlikely to move the needle substantially in their direction. The assumption among a lot of centrist Dems that 2020 is theirs for the taking, regardless of who they nominate, is really, really stupid. They need to make much, much larger-scale changes.
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Mar 6, 2017 18:00
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You know what's better than a gun? A dog. Protection and comfort, unless you're some creepy gun fetishist!! vote now! ends this wednesday! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3812290
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Mar 6, 2017 18:00
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logikv9 posted:You know what's better than a gun? A dog. Protection and comfort, unless you're some creepy gun fetishist!! untitled baloogan dog doesn't like the sound of gunfire 
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Mar 6, 2017 18:04
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logikv9 posted:You know what's better than a gun? A dog. Protection and comfort, unless you're some creepy gun fetishist!! no double down dog shameful
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Mar 6, 2017 18:14
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mormonpartyboat posted:no double down dog Cowardiiiiiice...are you serious?! 
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Mar 6, 2017 18:22
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Concerned Citizen posted:just posting retarded poo poo Good thread summary
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Mar 6, 2017 18:36
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Concerned Citizen posted:There are no jobs, in part because gun violence drives out businesses. lol there have never been jobs, not for the people in the neighborhoods most affected by gun violence today, at least not in my deep south city, and that's by design. I suppose it's anecdotal, but here you'll still have pockets of impoverished neighborhoods with high gun violence right in the middle of the white hipster bar and restaurant district. These black neighborhoods have been hosed from the start, from before inner city gun violence was even a thing, it's systemic racism and the resulting economic realities that allows an extremely well off white area full of mansions to literally encapsulate a black neighborhood where people see carrying a gun as necessary just to exist. Dems will stage a sit-in for some half-baked gun control idea but not for raising the minimum wage or ending drug policy that disproportionately affects minorities and that's some fuckin retarded priorities and has to change.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:02
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Concerned Citizen posted:Are you making an argument or just posting retarded poo poo lol 
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Mar 6, 2017 19:10
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Concerned Citizen posted:There are no jobs, in part because gun violence drives out businesses. man your trolling used to be decent what happened dude
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Mar 6, 2017 19:13
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Boner Zone posted:Dems will stage a sit-in for some half-baked gun control idea but not for raising the minimum wage or ending drug policy that disproportionately affects minorities and that's some fuckin retarded priorities and has to change. That's probably the most insightful point in this discussion. Support gun control or not for whatever reasons, but it says something that Democrats will stand up for that issue but not other important issues.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:24
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Gun violence didn't drive out business, being on the wrong side of the red line did. Gun/gang violence is a symptom of a greater issue. I'm all in favor of mental health checks, regular safety courses, and strict laws against not locking up a gun around children, but gun laws are a dead end that aren't actually likely to solve the problems they are related to. The voters who want gun control dont want it badly enough and the voters who hate gun control will vote based on it.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:26
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FuriousxGeorge posted:That's probably the most insightful point in this discussion. Support gun control or not for whatever reasons, but it says something that Democrats will stand up for that issue but not other important issues. Hence why I maintain gun control as the democrats use it, is a distraction.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:26
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Concerned Citizen posted:Are you making an argument or just posting retarded poo poo don't sign your posts
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Mar 6, 2017 19:28
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I support gun freedoms and the second amendment for lots of reasons. It does not mean I am opposed to working happily alongside gun control or ban advocates on stuff we agree about (and as we've went over twice in this thread, a lot of the "sensible gun control" folk do actually want gun bans and it's pretty obvious even if they're too scared to openly advocate for it) so long as our values align. And they usually do, even if our conclusions differ! Or supposedly, anyway. The idea that we have to be allies on every issue in order to be allies at all is pretty ludicrous, but then the gun control folk... I don't know. A lot of them don't seem keen on working together. Single issue activists, I guess.
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Mar 6, 2017 19:28
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