|
GaussianCopula posted:Well, it's pretty easy. At it's core the construction of housing is an investment, which means the lowered cost, through less expensive planning processes, and the availability of more construction space, through the reduction of red tape, will result in more housing being constructed. At some point it will be more profitable to build cheap housing (unless renter protection is too strong, in which case that needs to be reformed too) than expensive housing, simply through the law of supply and demand, which will result in more affordable housing overall, unless your assumption is that cheap housing is always unprofitable because of labor and material cost, but I view this assumption as highly unlikely, given that property prices outside the major urban centers are much lower. Additionally, where exactly does construction space need to become available in the city of Lisbon that is currently not being utilized due to "red tape"? And can you give examples of these onerous red tape measures that delay construction while not contributing to public safety? Could you also be more specific about when this mythical point will be reached at which building affordable housing (not cheap, but it's revealing that you think the two are the same) will become a no-brainer, and how renter protection laws are a problem that needs to be "reformed" before any of this can be true?
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 13:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:14 |
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:It's almost like deregulating the construction business (less NIMBYism, less "we have to protect this rare animal", less corruption) would not only relax the situation in the housing market, but also provide jobs for low qualified workers. Oh I see. All this time I was trying to figure out why housing in big cities is unaffordable, but now I finally understand that we could have all the cheap housing in the world, if it were for those drat endangered animals and the environmentalists that think "biodiversity" is important! What the actual gently caress are you on about
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 13:46
|
|
|
The thing that's causing house prices to spike is great crested newts and not EU policy on state aid that replaces long-term investment on things like land and housing with the disbursement of welfare to pay housing benefit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 13:48
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:It's probably mostly the non-EU rich being told "you can get citizenship if you buy 500,000E of housing stock", which is cheaper than the alternatives of creating and sustaining 10 jobs in an economy in recession or investing a million in capital. The majority of Golden Visa applicants, mostly Chinese, are buying luxury housing in already up scale/high class parts of the citu. They splashing those half a million euros on expensive apartments, and mansions in the Algarve/Alentejo sea coast. The impact of the GV program on the housing market was that expensive property was finally moving after being dead weight since the crash. What is happening in Lisbon is something else entirely, a lot of companies/corporations and super rich individuals pricing out people out of the centre and historic zones, so they can turn those houses into Hotels, Hostels and airbnb, to either get sweet tax breaks, or not pay property taxes at all. But really unless you were some Portuguese nouveau riche rear end in a top hat, the coming of the Chinese via the GV didn't have much of an impact on your shopping list for a house in Lisbon. This isn't London.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 13:50
|
|
|
Electronico6 posted:The majority of Golden Visa applicants, mostly Chinese, are buying luxury housing in already up scale/high class parts of the citu. They splashing those half a million euros on expensive apartments, and mansions in the Algarve/Alentejo sea coast. The impact of the GV program on the housing market was that expensive property was finally moving after being dead weight since the crash. Allow me to disagree. Sure, I'll attribute 60% of the blame to airbnb and stuff like that. But with the GV bullshit you have a reason to get a house to go 500k, even if it isn't worth that much, because the market really opens up at that level. That artificially inflates the market.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 13:55
|
|
|
orange sky posted:Allow me to disagree. Sure, I'll attribute 60% of the blame to airbnb and stuff like that. But with the GV bullshit you have a reason to get a house to go 500k, even if it isn't worth that much, because the market really opens up at that level. That artificially inflates the market. It's true, but the GV people aren't driving the market at all, especially in Lisbon. Because Lisbon holds no interest to them, and most of the property they buying is on the river side(parque das naçőes, belem) or outside of the city, and this is because Lisbon is not a property market like London. Most of the rehabilitation in mass scale that is happening in Lisbon is not destined for housing, it's destined for tourism. All those projects renovating 40 to 60 apartments you often hear, are exclusively for tourism. Even if you're a Chinese dude with your golden visa scheme you'd find hard to find a nice luxury apartment in Lisbon these days. There is also a problem that the Chinese coming in from the GV aren't suckers and won't buy the first overpriced apartment they see, they are really tight on the money. If you're seeking property in Lisbon, you are seeking to put it up on the tourist market, not the selling or renting market.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 14:07
|
|
|
They will want to buy properties near other chinese people and are willing to buy them at a premium though.gv had a noticeble efect in housing prices in specific zones (parque das Nações and Martim Moniz especially), but yeah its still second to bnb and hostels.in the last 12 months wealthy brazilians and expats have been buying everything in alvalade and Fonte novas,partly to get their capital out of brazil and partly for a investiment...for more bnb's.the only endagered species in Lisbon are people who where Born here still living here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 14:45
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Well, it's pretty easy. At it's core the construction of housing is an investment, which means the lowered cost, through less expensive planning processes, and the availability of more construction space, through the reduction of red tape, will result in more housing being constructed. At some point it will be more profitable to build cheap housing (unless renter protection is too strong, in which case that needs to be reformed too) than expensive housing, simply through the law of supply and demand, which will result in more affordable housing overall, unless your assumption is that cheap housing is always unprofitable because of labor and material cost, but I view this assumption as highly unlikely, given that property prices outside the major urban centers are much lower. What's keeping down construction in most of europe is the lack of qualified personnel and the low margins due to accepting at lost projects during the crisis, but ok.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 15:07
|
|
you feelin fucky posted:What's keeping down construction in most of europe is the lack of qualified personnel and the low margins due to accepting at lost projects during the crisis, but ok. If that were true, why are the unemployed masses of the PIGS countries not getting qualified as construction workers? Seems like an easy solution.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 15:15
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:If that were true, why are the unemployed masses of the PIGS countries not getting qualified as construction workers? Seems like an easy solution. Please stop using the term "PIGS".
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 15:46
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:If that were true, why are the unemployed masses of the PIGS countries not getting qualified as construction workers? Seems like an easy solution. Because it takes a year or two, because it's hard physical work and because there's no loving loving job security whatsoever unless you have a university degree. Get an education now and graduate just in time for the next housing bubble to explode!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 15:50
|
|
you feelin fucky posted:because it's hard physical work Are you saying that the unemployed in the PIGS states don't want to do "hard physical work"? YF-23 posted:Please stop using the term "PIGS". Sorry but that's the general term, formerly PIIGS but Ireland somewhat got out of the club so it's not PIGS.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:07
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Are you saying that the unemployed in the PIGS states don't want to do "hard physical work"? Many people are just not in the required physical shape to be able to do that. Others don't want health issues 20 years down the road. Maybe we should force 40 year old waitresses to haul bags of cement and see how well it goes? Congratulations on ignoring everything else I said as well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:11
|
|
|
gently caress it, just go to Portugal and tell them to build pyramids. *cracks whip*
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:15
|
|
|
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/world/europe/european-union-nuclear-weapons.htmlquote:Under such a plan, Frances arsenal would be repurposed to protect the rest of Europe and would be put under a common European command, funding plan, defense doctrine, or some combination of the three. It would be enacted only if the Continent could no longer count on American protection. lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:18
|
|
you feelin fucky posted:Many people are just not in the required physical shape to be able to do that. Others don't want health issues 20 years down the road. Maybe we should force 40 year old waitresses to haul bags of cement and see how well it goes? Portugal has a youth unemployment rate of ~25%, there should be at least some able bodied men and women in that, who can be trained to become construction workers and with an unemployment rate that high, people should not be as picky about their jobs anyway.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Portugal has a youth unemployment rate of ~25%, there should be at least some able bodied men and women in that, who can be trained to become construction workers and with an unemployment rate that high, people should not be as picky about their jobs anyway. portugal should not be punished for EU-mandated austerity loving up their economy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
Truga posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/world/europe/european-union-nuclear-weapons.html
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
Question for the thread: even if Die Grunen agreed to go along with a pink-red-green coalition, there'd be zero chance of that working out if the best they can do in polls is a ~47% minority government, right? Is it just gonna be yet another grand coalition?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Portugal has a youth unemployment rate of ~25%, there should be at least some able bodied men and women in that, who can be trained to become construction workers and with an unemployment rate that high, people should not be as picky about their jobs anyway. Indeed, but what really they should have done is train for that two years ago when there were zero jobs available.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:28
|
|
|
You have to admire the sheer naďveté of a plan that involves France giving the keys to its nuclear weapons to the Germans
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:28
|
|
Fiction posted:Question for the thread: even if Die Grunen agreed to go along with a pink-red-green coalition, there'd be zero chance of that working out if the best they can do in polls is a ~47% minority government, right? Is it just gonna be yet another grand coalition? Well, who knows. If you had asked me before Schulz the populist somehow bamboozled certain groups I would have said not a chance in hell, but now? Everything is possible.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
Truga posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/world/europe/european-union-nuclear-weapons.html I'm not sure what's scarier, depending on Trump's word for protection or Le Pen's. Crazy Mr. Magoo's hijacking the government is a scary thing and it could happen to any country at any election. Can't rely on anyone anymore  Fiction posted:Question for the thread: even if Die Grunen agreed to go along with a pink-red-green coalition, there'd be zero chance of that working out if the best they can do in polls is a ~47% minority government, right? Is it just gonna be yet another grand coalition? Elections are at the of September, expect a lot of movement in the polls till then
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:36
|
|
|
YF-23 posted:Oh I see. All this time I was trying to figure out why housing in big cities is unaffordable, but now I finally understand that we could have all the cheap housing in the world, if it were for those drat endangered animals and the environmentalists that think "biodiversity" is important! Look if we razed this wildlife refuge to create instead big bars of ugly condos, then the housing crisis would be solved because obviously everyone would go live in these big ugly condos 400 km away from the nearest large city. Duh. Also environment protection is really just a form of NIMBYism and corruption, because it's obvious it's all a scam, you know? Like that Chinese hoax about global warming.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:40
|
|
|
What's plaguing the housing market across Europe is all the community centers and the teens that protect them through incredible dancing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Elections are at the of September, expect a lot of movement in the polls till then Well that's what I mean. SDP seems to be at a high water mark at this point so I'm skeptical and wondering if things really will change all that much if this is Schulz's honeymoon period.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
Fiction posted:Well that's what I mean. SDP seems to be at a high water mark at this point so I'm skeptical and wondering if things really will change all that much if this is Schulz's honeymoon period. It seems like Schulzes gains are permanent, not just a honeymoon period. If you are asking whether a Red-Red-Green coalition is possible: Absolutely, all sides are willing to form one But it's still too far out to make a call, the party programs for the elections are not even finished yet. It could go either way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:10
|
|
|
If I were a bookmaker, I'd have a black-red grand coalition as the narrow favourite, a red-black grand coalition as the close second favourite, and a red-red-green coalition as a distant-but-not-entirely-implausible third possibility.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:14
|
|
|
Truga posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/world/europe/european-union-nuclear-weapons.html Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:20
|
|
LemonDrizzle posted:If I were a bookmaker, I'd have a black-red grand coalition as the narrow favourite, a red-black grand coalition as the close second favourite, and a red-red-green coalition as a distant-but-not-entirely-implausible third possibility. I don't see a red-black grand coalition. I'd rank it I. Jamaica (Black-Green-Yellow) II. Black-Red grand coalition III. R2G (Red-Red-Green) IV. Ampel (Red-Yellow-Green) V. Red-Black Black-Red might be even higher given that Schulz is a man of no conviction who will do almost everything to get a post (just look at his EP tenure), but I think the SPD base, which will need to vote for a new coalition agreement, will be very hard to convince without a big victory like the Mindestlohn last time.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:28
|
|
|
Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:It seems like Schulzes gains are permanent, not just a honeymoon period. How much hostility is there between the SPD, Greens and die Linke? Will they actually agree to work with each other or would the SPD rather remain in their Grand Coalition?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 17:45
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:How much hostility is there between the SPD, Greens and die Linke? Will they actually agree to work with each other or would the SPD rather remain in their Grand Coalition? Several former East German Länder are already governed by SPD-Linke coalitions, so it's not as if they would never ever work together. And I'm pretty sure that another grand coalition just barely ranks above being the biggest opposition party for the SPD.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
Toplowtech posted:Hey, look at that, turns out Chirac was right to detonate a few bombs near Australia during Hiroshima's 50th birthday. Trump is really a magical creature. Next step is the US blocking Germany access to GPS for some bullshit 'trump' reason and decade of paranoia about the US will end up justified. Sarkozy already proposed something similar a few years back. France is apparently unwilling to shoulder the nuke budget on their own anymore.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
Well the ones that Brits have are on American delivery systems and have to be regularly maintained in the US (always found that kinda hilarious, even if there is independent launch authorisation). Plus the French arsenal is a bit more comprehensive, meaning more expensive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 18:50
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/838809263631904768 Just under half of Républicains voters will go for Le Pen in the second round if their candidate doesn't make it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
I'm more surprised by the 1% of FN voters that don't support Le Pen. Who are these people? And welp at the 65% Le Pen supporters in LO and the NPA.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 19:19
|
|
|
Kassad posted:I'm more surprised by the 1% of FN voters that don't support Le Pen. Who are these people? 65% of three people is still only like two people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
gently caress, that's depressing. I've met a lot of crypto-authoritarians among the PCF / LCR etc. people but I didn't imagine they were so prominent.Fiction posted:65% of three people is still only like two people. I bet they'll get a really stern talking-to from Poutou at the next meeting!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
Toplowtech posted:Hey, look at that, turns out Chirac was right to detonate a few bombs near Australia during Hiroshima's 50th birthday. Trump is really a magical creature. Next step is the US blocking Germany access to GPS for some bullshit 'trump' reason and decade of paranoia about the US will end up justified. we'll finally have found a use for Galileo. LemonDrizzle posted:https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/838809263631904768 Clearly Les Républicains have to shift further rightward.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:14 |
|
|
Kassad posted:And welp at the 65% Le Pen supporters in LO and the NPA. The NPA are the ones who want opens borders/mandatory islam/free everything. I kinda wonder how accurate those polls are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2017 20:24
|
|
