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Smegmalicious posted:So what does a competitive empire list look like now? Rac/Ace Double Tie/SF + OmegaLr Palp + carnor + OmegaLr + wampa I mean you can still make good lists
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Mar 7, 2017 05:18
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For now good lists just won't be so easySmegmalicious posted:So what does a competitive empire list look like now? Defenders are still fine. It's just going to take brain power to make sure they get their evade. This was the only change that had any thought put into it. Palp needed a nerf this one is good but I think they should of dropped him to 6 or 7 points and I hate Palp.
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Mar 7, 2017 06:08
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Without commenting on the severity of the changes, I really like that the four biggest changes were all to cards that were basically fly-by-flowchart enablers. On a Hellbus, you never not use Zuckuss every single attack. In Palpaces, you never not use Palpatine to avoid a hit. In Parattani/Dengaroo, you never not use Manaroo to generate sickening amounts of support while orbiting the field and only engaging if you really have to. With Defenders, you never not do a 3/4/5 speed maneuver and get your free evade token, and more importantly you never not take x7 in the first place. I like these changes, by and large. Manaroo could probably have been 1-2 instead of just 1; Palpatine could probably have just used a range limit; x7 could probably have just used the no-bumping clause or the free action instead of assignment clause, but all of them are changes I am pretty happy to see. Now please fix Biggs, FFG.
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Mar 7, 2017 06:24
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I agree with you on the palp and x7. I don't think they have ever revised an errata though so we are stuck with this. I can see x7 being used still but I really can't justify palp anymore. Edit: I don't play the other factions enough to have strong opinions about their changes or needs. I do feel like this is a gigantic push to get Rebels back to relevance though. banned from Starbucks posted:Rac/Ace Double SF + OL? That's not a good list. Smegmalicious fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 06:50
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Strobe posted:Now please fix Biggs, FFG. Kanan Biggs survives one more FAQ.
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Mar 7, 2017 06:58
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Smegmalicious posted:
coulda fooled me since I saw it top 16 of 3 regionals.
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Mar 7, 2017 08:41
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The fix for Biggs would have to involve an across the board reduction in price for the generally overcosted named Rebel pilots. Since FFG has proven reluctant to do anything about point values Biggs has to stay where he is, with Rex becoming a possible third ship in rebel lists only because he had actual thought put into his pricing.
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Mar 7, 2017 09:01
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banned from Starbucks posted:coulda fooled me since I saw it top 16 of 3 regionals. I'm not seeing that on miniranker, what tournaments and what was the build?
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Mar 7, 2017 09:33
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Quickdraw + Backdraft both with Spec Ops, pattern analyzer, missiles(he switched between homing and conc between the two tournaments) VI (later switched to expertise on QD), guidance chips Standard Omega Another guy ran ryad instead of Omega and without missiles on the SFs. He made top 4 Michigan and Ohio
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Mar 7, 2017 10:19
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What do you guys think of this list? Trying to come up with a nice mindlink list sans the Jumpmaster and really like the idea of using the Shadow Caster title to set up the Alley Oop with the TPV mangler also still tanky. Fenn's Tan rear end (100) Asajj Ventress — Lancer-class Pursuit Craft 37 Attanni Mindlink 1 Latts Razzi 2 Tactical Jammer 1 Shadow Caster 3 Ship Total: 44 Fenn Rau — Protectorate Starfighter 28 Attanni Mindlink 1 Autothrusters 2 Concord Dawn Protector 1 Ship Total: 32 Tansarii Point Veteran — M3-A Interceptor 17 Attanni Mindlink 1 "Mangler" Cannon 4 "Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) 2 Ship Total: 24
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Mar 7, 2017 11:27
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alg posted:It's exciting how much more interesting this game is after they just put a little thought into 4 super poorly designed cards. But somehow, they left Horton and HWKs untouched They're already too powerful, I'm surprised that they weren't nerfed
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Mar 7, 2017 15:17
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alg posted:The fix for Biggs would have to involve an across the board reduction in price for the generally overcosted named Rebel pilots. Since FFG has proven reluctant to do anything about point values Biggs has to stay where he is, with Rex becoming a possible third ship in rebel lists only because he had actual thought put into his pricing. What's with the shade on Biggs? Is the fear that Making The T-65 Great Again would go to far for Biggs, because with his ability he's already great?
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Mar 7, 2017 16:48
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canyoneer posted:What's with the shade on Biggs? Is the fear that Making The T-65 Great Again would go to far for Biggs, because with his ability he's already great? Biggs has the strongest pilot ability in the game. Hands down. It's not even close. Anything you do that makes T65s more survivable has to be very, very carefully considiered because of Biggs. The Kanan/Biggs list is top tier solely because of Biggs.
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Mar 7, 2017 17:23
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The Biggs fix needs to be a change kinda like these ones, that makes him "Once per turn". Then X-wings can get defensive upgrades again. Then we can get a decent Astromech for defense (for the first time).
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Mar 7, 2017 18:24
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What if Biggs and Wedge were on Yavin and Biggs killed Wedge with a rock, how hosed up would that be?
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Mar 7, 2017 18:32
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Smegmalicious posted:So what does a competitive empire list look like now? Trip defenders hasn't become any less competitive. Man the salt on the FFG forums and taunting the salty people on the FFG forums has made a lovely day better. I'm just feeling super smug right now that I never succumbed to netlisting and bought Palp, and never ran Parattani. My masochistic decision to always pursue novel lists of my own design pays off motherfuckers.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:25
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Strobe posted:Without commenting on the severity of the changes, I really like that the four biggest changes were all to cards that were basically fly-by-flowchart enablers. On a Hellbus, you never not use Zuckuss every single attack. In Palpaces, you never not use Palpatine to avoid a hit. In Parattani/Dengaroo, you never not use Manaroo to generate sickening amounts of support while orbiting the field and only engaging if you really have to. With Defenders, you never not do a 3/4/5 speed maneuver and get your free evade token, and more importantly you never not take x7 in the first place. This is pretty much it for me. They took a bunch of cards about which there were (almost, Manaroo sometimes has a question over whether you want to pass locks or not) no meaningful tactical decisions to make, and made them into meaningful tactical decisions as to when to use them.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:28
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thespaceinvader posted:Trip defenders hasn't become any less competitive. I just buy one of everything, and I very rarely buy duplicates of ships. I think the only duplicates I have are 2 jumpmasters, 2 brobots (but that doesn't count!) 2 ARC-170s, and 2 Y-Wings. The 2nd jumpmaster I only bought because a friend had bought three and didn't open 2 of them, so I was sorta doing him a favor by buying it from him. The cool thing about this game is that since the bench is pretty wide, you can put together great competitive lists without going deep into multiples of specific ships for upgrades-only. You can look at meta chasers and see that they have 5 Kirahzhkh fighters because they bought them for the Crack Shot to use in a Crack Swarm, or many B-Wings because they used to swarm them. But you don't need to do that! I mention this because my mental math on a list is "what else, besides 1 of everything, would I need to play this?" Parattanni is a really elegant list that only requires a third Attanni Mindlink card. That's it. I think that was part of it's popularity.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:54
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canyoneer posted:I just buy one of everything, and I very rarely buy duplicates of ships. I think the only duplicates I have are 2 jumpmasters, 2 brobots (but that doesn't count!) 2 ARC-170s, and 2 Y-Wings. The 2nd jumpmaster I only bought because a friend had bought three and didn't open 2 of them, so I was sorta doing him a favor by buying it from him. It's got a low barrier to entry, sure, but mostly it was popular because it was insanely efficient and pretty easy to learn.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:58
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Most top tier meta lists are top tier meta lists because making poor decisions with them is actually more difficult than making poor decisions with a lesser list. The lists that populate top 8s aren't the best lists, they're the best easy lists.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:24
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Strobe posted:Most top tier meta lists are top tier meta lists because making poor decisions with them is actually more difficult than making poor decisions with a lesser list. The lists that populate top 8s aren't the best lists, they're the best easy lists. Im not really sure thats true. Maybe you could describe a hard list thats better than all the meta lists.
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Mar 7, 2017 21:28
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Well flown swarms are arguably the best all around lists in the game, they're just incredibly difficult to fly well all day and fatiguing to play in a big tournament. Brobots have a basically unlimited skill ceiling but one or two mistakes over the course of a day can and will knock you out. Phantoms (particularly Echo) have one glaring weakness but can still clean the hell up flown well; their problem is that one mistake will lose you the game, and Phantoms are really easy to make a mistake with. There are probably more, but those are just a few. Their weaknesses to top meta lists isn't capability, it's being able to afford to make a mistake and not lose, or having options to pick from that don't feature many mistakes to make.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:40
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Swarms are really the only thing you can point at that's really good but difficult to play well in my opinion, but you can't deny that Dengaroo was a super-hard counter to TIE Swarms with the ability to laugh off 2-dice attacks and mulch a TIE (or two!) a turn. Brobots have been out of style for a long time, but I don't know if that's dependent on meta or not; I think Phantoms are also gonna see a resurgence because on-demand access to Damaged Cockpit removes their one weakness that isn't player error, and I'd argue that with a PS advantage flying Whisper really only boils down to making sure you have a ship in your arc each turn, I don't think that's terribly skill dependent. I mean, palp defenders and dengaroo and parattani are all easier to fly, sure, but I don't think it's only a lack of willpower and discipline that keeps swarms and brobots and phantoms from dominating the game. Except maybe TIE Swarms now with Dengaroo dead, but I dunno mang.
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Mar 7, 2017 22:55
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HWK-290: Spice Runner (16) Twin Laser Turret (6) Inspiring Recruit (1) Feedback Array (2) HWK-290: Spice Runner (16) Twin Laser Turret (6) Inspiring Recruit (1) Feedback Array (2) HWK-290: Spice Runner (16) Twin Laser Turret (6) Inspiring Recruit (1) Feedback Array (2) HWK-290: Spice Runner (16) Twin Laser Turret (6) Inspiring Recruit (1) Feedback Array (2) -- TOTAL ------- 100p. -- Perfection.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:03
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Why the Inspiring Recruits?
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Mar 7, 2017 23:06
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Strobe posted:Well flown swarms are arguably the best all around lists in the game, they're just incredibly difficult to fly well all day and fatiguing to play in a big tournament. Brobots have a basically unlimited skill ceiling but one or two mistakes over the course of a day can and will knock you out. Phantoms (particularly Echo) have one glaring weakness but can still clean the hell up flown well; their problem is that one mistake will lose you the game, and Phantoms are really easy to make a mistake with. As someone who's played swarms, I kinda think x7 defenders and the increasing alpha strike capability of ships that can close out games makes it much much harder to play them. Also, part of a list being good is absolute reliability, and TIE swarms don't have it so much(or didn't.) To be fair, the current nerfs have gotten rid of some things that made TIE fighters less good than they used to be, but i don't think there's some hidden tech that's just HARD to play.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:09
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Devlan Mud posted:Swarms are really the only thing you can point at that's really good but difficult to play well in my opinion, but you can't deny that Dengaroo was a super-hard counter to TIE Swarms with the ability to laugh off 2-dice attacks and mulch a TIE (or two!) a turn. Phantoms desperately need to not end up in multiple arcs (well, arcs that have more than 2 dice associated with them) ever. Greens are not forgiving and they don't get near the modification it feels like they do. Especially now that Palpatine isn't a sure thing anymore. They're a lot more difficult than point and click. They used to be play=win, but not since decloaks moved to the start of the activation phase. And wouldn't you know it, getting a pre-move reposition, a maneuver, and a post-move reposition if necessary was stupidly good, because it didn't matter near as much if you could actually fly well, you just had to not suck really hard at it.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:11
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ConfusedUs posted:Why the Inspiring Recruits? Lack of choices unless you want to get four unique crew.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:12
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Lack of choices unless you want to get four unique crew. Zuckuss, 4-L0M, IG-88D, Boba Fett. 
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Mar 7, 2017 23:18
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Strobe posted:Well flown swarms are arguably the best all around lists in the game, they're just incredibly difficult to fly well all day and fatiguing to play in a big tournament. Brobots have a basically unlimited skill ceiling but one or two mistakes over the course of a day can and will knock you out. Phantoms (particularly Echo) have one glaring weakness but can still clean the hell up flown well; their problem is that one mistake will lose you the game, and Phantoms are really easy to make a mistake with. I'm also gonna disagree with the swarms bit. TIE crack swarms are the best, but 2 dice attacks are just not enough to put damage on ships these days. The swarm strategy these days is "kill something expensive/big with low agility fast, and hope you don't lose too many ships before time is called" Brobots I'd agree with. I mentioned it here earlier, but the 3rd place finisher in Worlds '15 with glitter/crack/AT/HLC/FCS B and C brobots just won the Phoenix regional a month ago with that exact same list. Not a lot of lists in this game can go ~18 months completely unchanged and stay competitive.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:20
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Strobe posted:Zuckuss, 4-L0M, IG-88D, Boba Fett.  This isn't MWG list time, this is "lovely but playable" list time!
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Mar 7, 2017 23:20
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Strobe posted:Zuckuss, 4-L0M, Inspring recruit, Boba Fett.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:26
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Strobe posted:Zuckuss, 4-L0M, IG-88D, Boba Fett. I like how you could play 50 games with that list and probably never get Boba Fett to trigger
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Mar 7, 2017 23:29
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canyoneer posted:I like how you could play 50 games with that list and probably never get Boba Fett to trigger Hey now, whatever the odds of one of the two Major Hull Breaches coming up in a game aren't that bad.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:32
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Strobe posted:Zuckuss, 4-L0M, IG-88D, Boba Fett. To be fair, Zuckuss, 4-L0M, and two Inspiring Recruits would probably be playable. Not as good as Thug Lyfe, but would have some options, anyways.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:33
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Strobe posted:Zuckuss, 4-L0M, Greedo, Unkar Plutt.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:49
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ConfusedUs posted:Biggs has the strongest pilot ability in the game. Hands down. It's not even close. Plenty of ships have much better abilities on much better platforms. Vader, for one. Soontir, for another. Biggs is just a tax Rebels pay to have ships like Kanan on the field. Without him, those ships aren't even close to the top table.
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Mar 8, 2017 00:21
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I just want to know if this latest change in rules will make my all-punisher list better.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:05
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4x generic punishers with proton rockets is and always will be a top tier list.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:10
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ConfusedUs posted:4x generic punishers with proton rockets is and always will be a top tier list. Not as good as 4 sigma squadron pilots. Not nearly.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:14
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