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Emperordaein posted:So I finally got a brand new copy of Age of Mythology through Steam after all these years, I took Tale of the Dragon for a spin and... Um... Okay, is that first mission supposed to be unfair, unfun, and just kind of terrible? I played this on Moderate by the way.
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Mar 6, 2017 17:33
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sheep-dodger posted:The Tale of the Dragon campaign is pretty bad and comes with scripting that breaks if you look at it funny. Yeah, it's incredibly buggy. Especially the first level. Emperordaein posted:So I finally got a brand new copy of Age of Mythology through Steam after all these years, I took Tale of the Dragon for a spin and... Um... Okay, is that first mission supposed to be unfair, unfun, and just kind of terrible? I played this on Moderate by the way. The tutorial is an amazingly bad cinematic. Like... they didn't even try. And the same lack of effort shows throughout the rest of the campaign. I actually liked the first mission though, buggy as it was. It was very challenging and fun for that reason. All the other LPers of that mission I found really sucked, so it was pretty fun to watch them flounder. One guy spent the whole time whining and then at the end huffed that "Well there's no way I'll lose now at least." And then lost in the final 3 seconds. Also, I redid the first tutorial mission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8dbYvQTh1M Melth fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Mar 6, 2017 18:10
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Yeah I tried to get into the Tales of the Dragon campaign then got tired of it quickly.
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Mar 6, 2017 22:27
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What do you expect from the equivalent of a mod campaign. The people who made this aren't Ensemble. Not that 'Ensemble is God' or anything, of course. But you can't expect the new stuff to gel with the old stuff no matter how hard it tries.
Bloodly fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 03:56
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Tales of the Dragon and AoM EE seem like a bit of an afterthought, really. It's the AoE2HD people, and what seems to have happened is that they moved on to this for a year or so (leaving AoE2HD in a pretty sorry state in a lot of ways) and then shipped it and moved straight back to make Rise of the Rajas. Although, in AoE2HDs case, the campaigns are mostly fine, it's mostly the netcode and a few fairly basic gameplay issues (looking at you, pathfinding) that are/were the problem.
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Mar 7, 2017 12:41
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The Age of Empires II connections ran even deeper when I got to the second mission of Tale of the Dragon, and it played like an Age of Empires II map, with it's building capture focus, and more rigid design (Which in AOE2 was due to less features and graphical ability). Specifically, the Manzikert map from the Conquerors expansion, except with really basic and uninteresting combat setups (Make this unit to fight the other unit, keep doing it and then make a base in a boring map to do a boring Town Centre capture.) So when I swapped over to trying The Golden Gift and The Titans Campaign again, I was seeing actual detail and effort (Okay, Golden Gift 2 is kinda lacking, but I appreciate the sentiment of what they tried to do) Even the Chinese just feel uninspired. Their God Powers (The few i've used) are just boring, their myth units aren't interesting, and they have no real unique skills that made the other Civilisations so distinct from each other. The Chinese in Age of Empires III had way more creativity behind them.
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Mar 7, 2017 13:07
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Yeah of the modern AoE/M expansions, TotD is easily the one that has the least amount of effort put into it. Forgotten Empires also had garbage campaigns but at least those clearly had hundreds of man hours put into them even if nobody on the FE campaign team had any idea what balance, pacing and mission variety were.
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Mar 7, 2017 17:21
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The Chinese are basically Archer Mass: the Sequel, given that Chu Ko Nu fire two arrows at once. They're no-where near as inspired as the other civs.
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Mar 7, 2017 18:30
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Melth posted:Fire Emblem Stuff Thanks for the write-up! I think those are all fair points, I almost want to try playing through it again to see if they bother me as much. Also I had no idea this game got an expansion. Too bad it's not so great, was thinking of grabbing it.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:24
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Emperordaein posted:So when I swapped over to trying The Golden Gift and The Titans Campaign again, I was seeing actual detail and effort (Okay, Golden Gift 2 is kinda lacking, but I appreciate the sentiment of what they tried to do)
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Mar 7, 2017 19:51
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Bloodly posted:What do you expect from the equivalent of a mod campaign. The people who made this aren't Ensemble. Not that 'Ensemble is God' or anything, of course. But you can't expect the new stuff to gel with the old stuff no matter how hard it tries. New stuff could be better than the old. Certainly I try to make the cinematics and whatnot in my WC3 campaigns better than blizzard's originals. They just didn't put in the time required and didn't take much pride in their work and there's no real excuse for that but being rushed. Emperordaein posted:The Age of Empires II connections ran even deeper when I got to the second mission of Tale of the Dragon, and it played like an Age of Empires II map, with it's building capture focus, and more rigid design (Which in AOE2 was due to less features and graphical ability). Specifically, the Manzikert map from the Conquerors expansion, except with really basic and uninteresting combat setups (Make this unit to fight the other unit, keep doing it and then make a base in a boring map to do a boring Town Centre capture.) So when I swapped over to trying The Golden Gift and The Titans Campaign again, I was seeing actual detail and effort (Okay, Golden Gift 2 is kinda lacking, but I appreciate the sentiment of what they tried to do) To be honest, I felt like the Atlanteans were kind of uninspired in terms of myth units. Just B-list Greek stuff that was terribly balanced or outright nonfuctional in some cases. Like satyrs. Those were complete trash and didn't even work as advertised. A lot of their god powers were pretty lame too, though there were definitely some cool ones mixed in. The titans campaign is just beautiful though. Everything about it was better than the original (except for like 2 levels where they dropped the ball and made things way too easy). The Chinese though were definitely flubbed in many ways. I mean first of all, like zero effort was put into even making them Chinese. They've got Chu Ko Nu, alright sure. And then Persian Cataphracts. And Persian War Chariots. And steppe tribes mounted archers. And... generically named 'scout cavalry'. I could go on. We got zero background on or differentiation of the Immortals (really missed a chance at some Hersir type fun with names at the very least, or even some kind of outright uniqueness like the Greek heroes if they wanted to go the extra mile). The immortals also do not work as advertised because they got lazy and changed their minds halfway through. So we're told they attack at range or in melee 'as they judge appropriate' but actually they only attack in melee ever. Except against flyers. Monks are poorly put together and don't work well what with having an actual attack plus their conversion. And they end up feeling too much like Set priests (or just priests in general). And their myth units combine the trashiness of Atlanteans with half of them being virtual palette swaps of older stuff. And a bunch of them have basically non-functional special abilities that are too weak to actually matter. Others were actually broken, like the Vermillion bird which upon release ALWAYS used its overpowered special instead of its normal attack. And now just uses its overpowered and poorly animated regular attack. Their techs were really, really uninspired. And most of their god powers are poorly balanced and dull and weak. There are a few good ones though. wiegieman posted:The Chinese are basically Archer Mass: the Sequel, given that Chu Ko Nu fire two arrows at once. They're no-where near as inspired as the other civs. Archers? Ok, in singleplayer yes. But in multiplayer the Chinese are going to be THE cavalry civilization! They have 3x as many cavalry units as anyone else! The Greeks just have two (Hippikon and Prodromos). Poseidon adds the worthless Hetairoi. So one good cavalry unit. Egyptians just have the Camelry. And that's sort of it. Mercenary cavalry are not usable for general purposes due to their timed life. Elephants are theoretically cavalry but their slow speed and super price and stats means they have a totally different role in the game. You can kind of count chariot archers which aren't classed as cavalry but function like them though. So two good cavalry units. Norse have Raiding Cavalry and Jarls. Both useful for different things. Two good cavalry units. Atlanteans have Contarii. And you can sort of count Turmas which are not classed as cavalry but function a lot like them. Two good cavalry units. Chinese? Chinese have five. Scout cavalry are generic massable cavalry. Cataphracts are startlingly good units which have solid stats and then are THE strongest anti-infantry unit in the game as far as I can tell. The first ever counter-unit to be actually usable! War Chariots are expensive heavy cavalry. Generals are expensive heavy cavalry with Arkantos's super boost ability. And Mounted archers are not classed as cavalry, but they function like them. They are amazingly good because they're the fastest ranged unit in the game (except upgraded Centaurs), have actual damage unlike Turmas, and are super-effective against cavalry- the only things that can hope to catch them! This means the Chinese can field a mounted unit which is good against every variety of human unit in the game! Plus several extra support varieties. I would be shocked if the Chinese don't become infamously good raiders, and they're definitely the game's cavalry civ. Melth fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 20:54
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Usually I support more east Asian content in strategy games but tbh India would have been a much better fit for this game. You could've even based the campaign on like the Ramayana, like the vanilla is based on the Oddysey. Although I guess there's a sensitivity issue when the belief system being represented is still sacred to millions.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:30
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Wait, the Chinese are made up of a bunch of Persian/Byzantine units like cataphracts? That doesn't make sense, unless the campaign takes place halfway down the silk road as an expedition. Steppe cavalry is fine though. I think going for a North African Zoarastrian style campaign would have made more sense. It's mostly extinct and rarely explored so there would be a lot to work with.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:11
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Melth posted:To be honest, I felt like the Atlanteans were kind of uninspired in terms of myth units. Just B-list Greek stuff that was terribly balanced or outright nonfuctional in some cases. Like satyrs. Those were complete trash and didn't even work as advertised. A lot of their god powers were pretty lame too, though there were definitely some cool ones mixed in. I always thought Atlantis in this game was supposed to be totally-not-Rome to get in the Roman side of classical myth - it works well in the Percy Jackson books. When I play as the Atlanteans I usually don't use myth units much at all.
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Mar 8, 2017 03:06
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anilEhilated posted:Golden Gift was a mod, people actually got paid for ToTD. Yyyeah. Golden Gift was made by Ensemble. Used to be a download on Microsoft's site. Now it's on download sites all over.
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Mar 8, 2017 14:46
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Bloodly posted:Golden Gift was made by Ensemble. Used to be a download on Microsoft's site. Now it's on download sites all over.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:26
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Cythereal posted:I always thought Atlantis in this game was supposed to be totally-not-Rome to get in the Roman side of classical myth - it works well in the Percy Jackson books. When I play as the Atlanteans I usually don't use myth units much at all. Yeah, I mean a lot of their units are Roman-based (more on glatiatorial nonsense than real soldiers though) but they also have stuff Ensemble made up like automatons , a few weird biblical things like Behemoths, and then as I said B-list Greek stuff like satyrs and Argus and cut-rate hecatoncheires with only four hands which are arguably the best myth units in the whole game. I mostly spend my favor on heroes rather than myth units as Atlanteans I find. Definitely in campaign mode.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:15
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Some of the Atlantean units are conceptually really cool (automatons), but end up being wet farts in practice.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:23
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my dad posted:Some of the Atlantean units are conceptually really cool (automatons), but end up being wet farts in practice. Caladrias are helpful at least.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:26
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Cythereal posted:Caladrias are helpful at least. Tremendously since the race has no other healing at all!
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Mar 8, 2017 18:27
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Melth posted:Tremendously since the race has no other healing at all! Servants, for boats only and available from the same god.  Still, I'd have preferred seeing something like Aztecs or Celts instead of Atlantis as an expansion race.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:36
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Cythereal posted:Servants, for boats only and available from the same god. I believe servants work on land units too actually, but I didn't include them since their heal rate is slower and (as you said) they're offered by the same god. I think that for purposes of telling a good story, Atlanteans were an excellent choice. I'm torn about whether they should have been more fully fictional or not though. Making half their stuff vaguely Roman for some reason but then having all their lore be about their made up history and culture and then having their myth units be half made up and half Greek strikes me as a strange choice, but I'm also not sure whether I'd have liked an entirely made up Atlantean race.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:18
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Atlantean citizens make up for anything.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:29
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With mission 9 done, this LP is now an underground phenomenon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDtnKbeJIhU
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Mar 13, 2017 21:14
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Hang on, Medusae? Shouldn't they be called Gorgons?
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Mar 13, 2017 22:25
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Seriously just kill the loving operators of the ram and you'd have all the time in the world
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Mar 13, 2017 22:58
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Lunethex posted:Seriously just kill the loving operators of the ram and you'd have all the time in the world But... there's a red box around the whole thing. You can't just ignore a red box. What do you want, anarchy?
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Mar 13, 2017 23:00
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Does that phoenix only spawn on Titan or has it just never bothered me before?
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Mar 13, 2017 23:15
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Samovar posted:Hang on, Medusae? Shouldn't they be called Gorgons?
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Mar 13, 2017 23:19
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I don't think I ever played a single video game other than Majesty that calls gorgons gorgons. Even Majesty has the generic variety be called medusas and only the special, super ones added in the expansion are called greater gorgons. I can think of a bunch of games that have some totally non-gorgon monster called gorgons for some reason though.anilEhilated posted:Does that phoenix only spawn on Titan or has it just never bothered me before? Lots of enemies only show up on the higher difficulties. Luckily phoenixes suck anyway. Lunethex posted:Seriously just kill the loving operators of the ram and you'd have all the time in the world https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-_p5msENuI Oh, as a random side note, the smashing sounds and dust and whatnot have nothing to do with the gate. The ram model itself just makes that sound and causes clouds of dust from midair if you place it in the editor.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:15
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Ah. So the underworld is a giant bouncy castle. Everything makes sense now!
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Mar 14, 2017 00:28
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Glazius posted:Ah. So the underworld is a giant bouncy castle. Only if you're good!
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Mar 14, 2017 00:32
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Melth posted:I can think of a bunch of games that have some totally non-gorgon monster called gorgons for some reason though. I eagerly await your next lp, in which you give Heroes of Might and Magic 3's campaigns the crushing defeat they deserve.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:40
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Melth posted:I can think of a bunch of games that have some totally non-gorgon monster called gorgons for some reason though. Which should really be called Catoblepas. The whole name mix-up originally comes from Dungeons and Dragons, and the RPGs based off of it.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:12
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nth Term posted:Which should really be called Catoblepas. The whole name mix-up originally comes from Dungeons and Dragons, and the RPGs based off of it. DnD then later introduced Catoblepas as separate and distinct monsters.
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Mar 14, 2017 02:54
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The D&D metal beast "gorgon" has its origin in medieval beastiaries:Edward Topsell, 17th century beastiary writer posted:It is a feareful and terrible beast to beholdd, it hath high and thicke eie lids, eies not very great, but much like an Oxe or Bugils, but all fiery-bloudy, which neyther looke directly forwarde, nor yet upwards, but continuallye downe to the earth, and therefore are called in Greeke Catobleponta. F. Wesley Schneider, Pathfinder designer posted:Here we finally find the gorgon presented as an ox- or bull-like beast with breath that kills. But Topsell’s book isn’t just known for its detailed descriptions, it’s famed for its lavish inclusion of dozens of woodcut images. ... The gorgon, though, bears the highest honor in the book, with its depiction of a mop-topped scale-bull occupying the collection’s front cover. From this piece it’s easy to infer how the scaled, gas-mouthed bull of the Monster Manual took shape. The only major exception I knew of is Magic: The Gathering, which had an early "medusa" card, but has been calling them "gorgon" since early 2000s - even that early card was errata'd in the rules to be "gorgon". This came in handy when they needed to print a few more gorgons for their Greek mythology expansion in 2013. cuc fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 03:20
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People posted:Gorgons, Medusas, and Catoblepas! It's like déjà vu all over again!
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Mar 14, 2017 21:47
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I like these Underworld stages, they really feel like they did something completely different with the AoM engine.
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Mar 14, 2017 23:54
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Speaking of gorgons, I wonder if the three here are meant to be a nod to the original three from Greek myth. Medusae in this game might be iffy units for the most part, but I do love their petrification sync kill and this mission is perfectly designed for them to shine. With proper micromanagement, medusae can hard counter other high-end myth units and if I remember right, their ranged attacks deal some crush damage as well. If you're facing a lot of powerful myth units or souped-up human units like Norse jarls of doom, medusae can be worth it. Hera's not a bad choice in general, imo. Carcinos are pretty nice on naval maps, and monstrous rage is a nice tech. I think her biggest problem is that she's only available to Zeus and fights with Hephaestus, who's a much more straightforward choice.
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Mar 15, 2017 04:01
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So i've long since dropped the Tale of the Dragon Campaign (Good riddance honestly) and decided to replay the original campaigns, starting from Titans, and going back to the original Fall of the Trident content. The big reason for this is that back in the day, due to me being a dumb kid, I abused cheats throughout the entire campaign, just to goof around with everything I could do. Also using the Wrath of the Gods cheat to unload on enemy bases was just too much fun. Since I play games differently now, and especially after seeing Melth in action, I decided I would do it right this time. No more screwing around. Setting it to Moderate difficulty, and playing through everything with no cheats. As of this writing, I beat The Titans campaign, which is still fantastic. I won't go into detail, since I want Melth to do it for me when he gets to that campaign (Eventually). But now, i'm on the regular campaign, up to Mission 8. I am wondering, if you aren't going for speed runs, is it better to bunker down and build up defences first, or just focus on building as many soldiers as you can when you have a stable production line going? This is referring to missions like the first three Troy ones where you are given a base with the objective to tear down the enemy one.
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Mar 15, 2017 10:44
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