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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Very true. Into myth. That's where the real money's made! Unless you're a mutant I guess.
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Mar 7, 2017 23:58
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Edit: Really not worth feeding the troll.
PJOmega fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 00:31
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Bust Rodd posted:All i'm saying is this movie could have swapped out the 30 minutes Logan and Xavier spent ruining some country families entire life for maybe a single flashback of Charles's first psychic break and their subsequent flight south of the border and many of my gripes would probably get washed away there. Actually, instead of a flashback, make it a literal nightmare, and then he wakes up and tells Logan all about it and then X-24 surprise ganks him. On a structural level, I wouldn't want to see this. The atmosphere of this film is so centered on desolation and decay and emptiness. Its formal simplicity and the limit of its scope are strengths of the film, in my view. Showing Charles' past and explaining in explicit detail what "the Westchester incident" was would re-align the film to Charles' POV, and pepper the film with all this extraneous detail - other X-Men characters, new settings, a wider world than the largely subjective one that Logan is trapped in. It'd make it part of some grander franchise mythology, and not the minimalist fugue for these dying characters we're actually watching. In fact, it has a lot in common with The Road in that sense. You don't know that the kids are going to safe, or what the wider geopolitical reality is...you also don't know if Logan's sacrifice mattered in any objective sense. But it did matter to Laura and the other kids, whose mythologized conception of Wolverine was confirmed by the real man. The movie begins with Logan as nothing and nobody, and ends with him as a hero and a father. Plot questions outside that are kind of irrelevant.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:12
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Can we cut out the spoilers now that we're 9 pages into the thread for talking about the movie that came out last week?Bust Rodd posted:Look I just don't think it's fair to dismiss any and all questions I have about the movie because "It's a movie and it's just trying to tell the story and doesn't have to spoon feed you all the answers" like duh, I know that, but it doesn't stop the questions from coming and some of them are sloppy writing concerns. Like in the first scene Logan just grunts and buckshot pushes itself out of his chest and arms, but then like 30 minutes later he cuts his hand open on his own claws and needs a bandage. At the beginning of the movie Logan has been living a fairly peaceful life for year or so. All his healing factor has had to do is fight back the ravages of adamantium poisoning and deal with some cheap liquor. He barely even smokes anymore, the only time we see it is when he snags a couple cigars on the way out of the gas station. He's a broken man, but he's at the peak of his physical condition for the duration of the movie. Then he gets shot a couple times, and only after the fight is over and he makes it to a public bathroom somewhere does his healing factor finally manage to push out the bullets. It's very painful and the wounds don't even heal all the way up after the bullets are out. At this point we notice that Logan is covered in scars, and we find that as the movie progresses his healing factor is working less and less effectively. Xavier and Logan are both old men losing their powers. Charles is a man who spent his whole life championing the rights of mutants as natural beings, and now he's being robbed of his mutant powers by the natural progression of age. Still, despite his handicaps he struggles to remain Xavier, reaching out to Laura and other mutants and finding brief moments where he is once again Professor Xavier. We begin the movie with him a raving mad man, and end with a night where he is fully Professor Xavier, calming horses, conversing over dinner, and finding peace with his friend Logan. Logan starts the movie as James Howlett, a broken down man with one foot in the grave. Throughout the movie people keep calling for Wolverine, the rage filled aspect of his personality that he has come to hate. The fighting, the adamantium, and the healing that allow both are The Wolverine that he has tried to bury. Laura's introduction is when he begins to finally move towards being Logan. His dwindling healing factor and physicality throughout the movie are him purging The Wolverine from his system, becoming more and more Logan. Then, at the end when he's helped the kids and sends his daughter off, in his mind to save her from the fate of everyone else he's ever cared about, he once again calls upon The Wolverine to save her. Then he has to fight a physical version of The Wolverine, which succeeds in doing what the innate Wolverine has been taking decades to do, and kills him. However at the last his daughter kills Wolverine, saving Logan.
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Mar 8, 2017 01:31
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Bust Rodd posted:We already have Magneto's helmet and Juggernaught's helmet in universe to tell us "You need special metal to block psychic interference" and the water tower that you can literally see through the rusty holes of does not seem to be on par with that, so the answer to the question could have been "It was nice of Magneto to help you hide like this" or something. I'm glad the movie picks up pretty much right when you see their hideout because that whole sequence just had me scratching my head until the bad guys show up. I always thought that the trick of telepathy-blocking helmets in X-stories was the shape and/or special plating, not the material used to make it (this of course varies depending on canon, timeline, and writer but I digress). This also goes for Cerebro; a main plot point in X2 is that swapping the panel configuration around directly affects the amplification of psychic abilities. In Logan, the big dome they have Xavier housed in is missing chunks. A lot of squarish, panel shaped, almost strategically placed chunks. Is it because they're living in the middle of the desert in lovely future world and that's the best approximation they could find, or is it because Logan knew enough to try and imitate the Cerebro design in a way that puts a damper on Xavier's abilities when he has a seizure freakout? I like the idea of the latter, but it could very well be the former. It could be both! That's part of the magic of good storytelling. You shouldn't (and don't) need every single detail spoonfed to you.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:14
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Helmets like Magneto's and Juggernaut's stop psychic abilities because the stories require them to. That's it. Why do geeks get so caught up in the trappings of a story they miss the text, both subtle and blatant?
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Mar 8, 2017 02:20
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Mar 8, 2017 02:40
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Gyges posted:
I thought the Taco Bell commercial was ambiguously either an artifact of psychically talking to a nine year old or being utterly delirious. I don't think "psychic brain" picks up radio waves. Then again the bunker wasn't wrapped in tinfoil so maybe Canewood was trying to hack his mind. /sarcasm.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:50
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As someone pointed out earlier, the reason Xavier is in a water tower in the middle of nowhere is not to block his mind powers, it's to isolate him and minimize the damage in case he has another episode.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:50
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The last sequence of the movie is Logan going from The Wolverine, to Shane, to James Howlett, father and X-Man. It's legit. He's only an X-Man when he's hopped up on meds for five minutes, though. Otherwise he's just a character ~40 years past the point he should've been rebooted. E: The farther away from seeing this movie, the more I appreciate it as an Elseworlds title that doesn't actually fit into the story (Logan doesn't die in a shitheel world, just as Bruce Banner doesn't die like in Hulk: The End), and so can be effortlessly removed from memory. Can't wait for the next X-Men movie with a rebooted Wolverine. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 03:09
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MisterBibs posted:He's only an X-Man when he's hopped up on meds for five minutes, though. Otherwise he's just a character ~40 years past the point he should've been rebooted. You have a really fuckin' weird way of looking at movies.
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Mar 8, 2017 03:19
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Big Mean Jerk posted:As someone pointed out earlier, the reason Xavier is in a water tower in the middle of nowhere is not to block his mind powers, it's to isolate him and minimize the damage in case he has another episode. That is the main reason, but Caliban and Logan also have a conversation about how the tank isn't as effective as they thought it would be at blocking Xavier. Because of all the holes. Remember that Logan knows gently caress all about any of this medical or care-taking poo poo. He's just trying to wing it like a champ while he scrounges up enough money to buy a boat and leave everyone else behind.
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Mar 8, 2017 03:20
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Big Mean Jerk posted:As someone pointed out earlier, the reason Xavier is in a water tower in the middle of nowhere is not to block his mind powers, it's to isolate him and minimize the damage in case he has another episode. it's a prison. that's all it really was. that must be what elderly homes feel like 
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Mar 8, 2017 03:57
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MisterBibs posted:Can't wait for the next X-Men movie with a rebooted Wolverine. This movie has a rebooted Wolverine in it. It's a soulless monster that is explicitly the bad guy. What a bizarre reaction to have. "Ugh why is Wolverine so lovely and old? This movie's dumb, they should reboot him. We need a new, sexy, younger Wolverine."
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Mar 8, 2017 04:12
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I hope they just keep X-23 around. Young Wolverine learning to be a proper X-Man is more interesting, in concept, than gruff and jaded Wolverine being snarky to Cyclops and semi-mentoring yet another teen girl.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:15
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Hahaha I just realized because I was watching Terminator 2 that Logan is set in 2029 which is the same year that the Terminator get's sent back from. That can't be just a weird coincidence.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:58
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MisterBibs posted:He's only an X-Man when he's hopped up on meds for five minutes, though. Otherwise he's just a character ~40 years past the point he should've been rebooted. ~my head canon~
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Mar 8, 2017 05:12
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I really hope this is super successful and that people pay attention to how different this is from other super hero stories. Like I want a goddamn Gotham by Gaslight movie.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:15
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Xealot posted:"Ugh why is Wolverine so lovely and old? This movie's dumb, they should reboot him. We need a new, sexy, younger Wolverine." Rastafarianize him about 10%. I think the last 5 minutes of the film really clinches it as everything gets resolved. Goddamn.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:21
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Hollismason posted:Hahaha I just realized because I was watching Terminator 2 that Logan is set in 2029 which is the same year that the Terminator get's sent back from. That can't be just a weird coincidence. Considering the cues X-24 takes from Terminator, does seem like a reference.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:21
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Hollismason posted:I really hope this is super successful and that people pay attention to how different this is from other super hero stories. Like I want a goddamn Gotham by Gaslight movie. You're almost definitely old enough to remember how the Matrix blew people's minds with a combination of visuals, story telling, stylistic influences, thematic weight and people paid attention and assumed that 'bullet time' was the one thing they should take away.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:21
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Hollismason posted:I really hope this is super successful and that people pay attention to how different this is from other super hero stories. Like I want a goddamn Gotham by Gaslight movie. It made more in the opening weekend than they thought it would (and was at the top of said box office) so a success it is, commercially at least!
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Mar 8, 2017 05:21
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Snowman_McK posted:You're almost definitely old enough to remember how the Matrix blew people's minds with a combination of visuals, story telling, stylistic influences, thematic weight and people paid attention and assumed that 'bullet time' was the one thing they should take away. On the other hand, Logan is the way it is because Deadpool was a successful R rated movie. Which is at the very least a minor miracle that at least one entire project in Hollywood seems to have learned a proper lesson from the success of another movie and refrained from simply parroting elements of the previous success. I'm not looking forward to SHAZAM, now with 100% more Miracle Man!
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Mar 8, 2017 07:48
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If DC takes anything from this it'll be 'we are justified in having Batman kill whoever he wants, and we should make it bloodier'. That's it.
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Mar 8, 2017 08:49
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Hollismason posted:I really hope this is super successful and that people pay attention to how different this is from other super hero stories. Like I want a goddamn Gotham by Gaslight movie. It's a mediocre action movie with loads of sentimental drivel combined with.extreme sadism. Professor X needing help to go pee is not going to inspire any filmmaker. e: Steve2911 posted:If DC takes anything from this it'll be 'we are justified in having Batman kill whoever he wants, and we should make it bloodier'. Well the gruesome action was one of the more entertaining parts of the movie, so hopefully they think just that. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 09:20
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Gyges posted:On the other hand, Logan is the way it is because Deadpool was a successful R rated movie. Which is at the very least a minor miracle that at least one entire project in Hollywood seems to have learned a proper lesson from the success of another movie and refrained from simply parroting elements of the previous success. Deadpool was successful because underneath all the flippant violence and humour, there's a completely sincere love story. It's also really well structured. So, I don't know, do you think Logan's takeaway was 'let's make this movie good' or something? Because that's why Deadpool succeeded.
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Mar 8, 2017 09:46
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Snowman_McK posted:It's also really well structured. That's one odd thing to praise Deadpool for, because its structure was really un-cinematic and led it to feeling very anemic. The hero's lowest point and greatest struggle are contained entirely in flashback, while the main narrative ends up being very, very barebones (hero attacks villain, villain kidnaps hero's girlfriend, hero fights villain). This ends up diminishing the movie's conflict. The movie feels like a two part television pilot, where the flashbacks formed the first episode until they were cut up between parts of the second episode. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 09:50
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PJOmega posted:I thought the Taco Bell commercial was ambiguously either an artifact of psychically talking to a nine year old or being utterly delirious. I don't think "psychic brain" picks up radio waves. I just figured he was picking up telepathically what some random dude was hearing somewhere relatively nearby. Like some Mexican guy is driving in his car or just walking by a radio playing a commercial and Xavier "heard" the commercial through him because he can't control his powers anymore. He's saying it out loud because, well, Alzheimer's
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Mar 8, 2017 11:02
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's one odd to praise Deadpool for, because its structure was really un-cinematic and led it to feeling very anemic. The hero's lowest point and greatest struggle are contained entirely in flashback, while the main narrative ends up being very, very barebones (hero attacks villain, villain kidnaps hero's girlfriend, hero fights villain). This ends up diminishing the movie's conflict. The movie feels like a two part television pilot, where the flashbacks formed the first episode until they were cut up between parts of the second episode. That's sort of my point. Every first movie in a comic book thing has ended up feeling really similar, and Deadpool did something else. I, and plenty of other people, found it worked well and felt a bit different. The smaller scale was, again, nice. I've seen enough world ending columns of light, and this one's main struggle was about Deadpool vs his own appearance. You're also wrong, his low point is when he realises he can't be fixed. His struggle is internal, his love for Copycat clashing with the belief that she can't love him back unless he's sexy Ryan Reynolds. Sure, you can focus on the external plot, which is simple, but that ignores how much of actual narrative and themes are in the flashbacks. Also, since he is essentially invulnerable, the action scenes are pretty much just extraneous fun anyway.
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Mar 8, 2017 12:36
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Snowman_McK posted:That's sort of my point. Every first movie in a comic book thing has ended up feeling really similar, and Deadpool did something else. I, and plenty of other people, found it worked well and felt a bit different. The smaller scale was, again, nice. I've seen enough world ending columns of light, and this one's main struggle was about Deadpool vs his own appearance. "Scale" has nothing to do with this. There are movies that are way "smaller-scale" than Deadpool but still feel like cinema. Like Snatch or The Hangover. Logan is roughly the same scale in terms of plot, and it has way more modest setpieces. It's not a good movie, but it's still cinema. Deadpool just feels like television, which is terrible for a movie. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 13:08
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"Scale" has nothing to do with this. There are movies that are way "smaller-scale" than Deadpool but still feel like cinema. Like Snatch or The Hangover. Logan is roughly the same scale in terms of plot, and it has way more modest setpieces. It's not a good movie, but it's still cinema. Deadpool just feels like television, which is terrible for a movie. Can you and will you explain what makes it feel like television? It can't be the anemic plot, because plenty of films, including a bunch of classics, have anemic plots.
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Mar 8, 2017 13:39
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Snowman_McK posted:Deadpool was successful because underneath all the flippant violence and humour, there's a completely sincere love story. It's also really well structured. There's a whole variety of things you can take away from Deadpool's success. It's a hard R movie that made money, it's irreverent, it's self contained, it has modest stakes, it has nods towards other movies in a franchise, the focus is on a small cast, it's cheap, the filmmakers were largely allowed free will, it eshews conventional structure, it's both a close adaptation while also being a loose adaptation, and so many more. The Logan production went with an interpretation that there was an audience for a violent, smaller scale, comic book movie that didn't focus on being part of a Cinematic Universe but instead focused on the main character while also making tongue in cheek references to the merchandising of the franchise. Also that set pieces were secondary to character, which is a lot easier of a conclusion to make when you've got Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman headlining.
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Mar 8, 2017 13:40
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Cacator posted:Also Hugh Jackman should host the Oscars again. He should host the Oscars Logan-style. "I didn't ask for any of this loving poo poo!" "ragged breath, pulls from handle of whiskey* hiddenriverninja posted:I watched it last Thursday and loved it, but when it cut to the final frame, a wave of groans from the audience just undercut the experience. Someone in my row went "Wait, what?" I guess they were all conditioned for a happier ending. I kinda had the same thing, someone went "That's it, that was such a downer!" and another person sat through most of the credits apparently waiting for a stinger and then said "well I feel like taking a bullet to the head now" on the way out. I thought it was pretty funny, like even if you somehow didn't know what to expect going in, how couldn't you by the end if you were paying the least bit of attention leading up to it. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 13:46
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Snowman_McK posted:Can you and will you explain what makes it feel like television? It can't be the anemic plot, because plenty of films, including a bunch of classics, have anemic plots. How strikingly inambitious everything in the movie is, and the structure and the pacing of the story. Aside from the few action scenes, there was almost nothing that couldn't be replicated on television. The scene of Wilson finding himself an outcast comes to mind, in particular. The budget didn't seem to help this: the evil lab and the X-Men school would easily pass for TV sets. Blind Al specifically comes off across as a character written as if they were being introduced in a TV pilot and going to be expanded on later. The most striking moment of television-level storytelling is how there is no absolute "low-point" or ultimate trial to the heroic struggle, except in a flashback (the cartoon animals part is the closest thing in the main narrative). It's such a basic thing, which is why it's absence is so glaring. There's no sense of escalation or overcoming obstacles. And it's not that it's a comedy, plenty of comedies have serious struggles and conflicts. e: and even by the standards of comic book television it's tepid: Legion exists, after all, to dominate Deadpool's niche. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 14:31
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Steve2911 posted:If DC takes anything from this it'll be 'we are justified in having Batman kill whoever he wants, and we should make it bloodier'. Is any superhero movie, regardless of side, really going to take much from this movie? It's not like the superhero genre is hurting from a lack of interest; your standard superhero isn't going to pivot into being aging and near-death like this one. They'll still make more money making their films PG13, too.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:00
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Snowman_McK posted:Deadpool was successful because underneath all the flippant violence and humour, there's a completely sincere love story. It's also really well structured. The problem is, studio execs are stupid. James Gunn even quoted that they a lot of times they miss why movies do so well. Logan is similar to Deadpool in that it is hard R story, with great characters and small stakes, and passion behind the project from the cast and crew. This is a comic movie I never expected to ever see. I expected the execs to just see the raunchy humor and 4th wall breaking from Deadpool. Funny story, when I went to see this there was a little card on the table near the electronic box office, stating "Hey guys, Logan is an R rated movie, with a lot of violence and cursing. Maybe not take the kids to see this one". I felt it was kinda sad that you needed to remind people that this movie is rated R and kids may not enjoy this. TL;DR, Logan was a great movie, and such a fitting swan song for Jackman and Stewart. Is it award worthy? I'd love to see those two get nominations, but won't hold my breath for it.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:01
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PassTheRemote posted:Funny story, when I went to see this there was a little card on the table near the electronic box office, stating "Hey guys, Logan is an R rated movie, with a lot of violence and cursing. Maybe not take the kids to see this one". I felt it was kinda sad that you needed to remind people that this movie is rated R and kids may not enjoy this. They have to do this because Logan is a superhero movie, and non-adults like superhero movies. So when movies are rated so that non-adults aren't allowed, they have to dissuade non-adults from trying. Ain't rocket science.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:04
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I liked the more subtle aspect of the lovely dystopian future where everything is ruled by evil corporations (I mean even more so than right now). Just getting a card from the Alkali or whatever it was called company is enough for superhero Wolverine to lose his poo poo. They bring a bunch of mexican federal police to try to murder a little girl and corporate security forces can murder people at will
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Mar 8, 2017 17:23
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Steve2911 posted:If DC takes anything from this it'll be 'we are justified in having Batman kill whoever he wants, and we should make it bloodier'. You're 100% right, except they already made that movie and Batman realizes he was wrong at the end of it.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:47
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Hey, guess what? Y'all were right and DC isn't about to let this opportunity fly by. http://www.thewrap.com/dc-films-r-rated-superhero-movie/
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Mar 8, 2017 18:59
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