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Dejan Bimble posted:Impossible to disagree with that. The scholarship should be a scholarship, and if they want to cut the player, then they pay them, cash, the remainder This last CBA that crew gave up no money, got new raises for rookies and MLE players, opened up a path for players under 10 years service to get 10-year maxes, allowed 2-way contracts for D-league players, healthcare packages for retired players, and tuition reimbursement. They also did not raise the age, which is something the league would have given something back for. But yeah, the fact that they changed the age at which you can screw over a player from 36 to 38 is a travesty. 
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Mar 8, 2017 14:05
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Do you guys think health advances will ever make it so that post-40yo players can remain competitive (outside of a few unicorn rare players)? Or is that something for a few decades from now in the bionic legs era?
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Mar 8, 2017 14:55
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I seriously don't understand why this board champions player salaries so much, in any sport. I could go on about how the Conley's and Horfords of the world make superstar money, but that's just a byproduct of the system right now. Instead i will focus on the rookies, they get paid millions to develop for 4 years into flawed players. Then teams have to decide if they should pony up bigger bucks or let them become roleplayers on the better teams. It's a cycle that is becoming very obvious to me and also many people in the industry. You should read more about this instead of agreeing with players who want to get paid 1/3 of a teams whole salary cap. And marvel at all the bad players getting 17- 20 million to ride the bench. Whats's gonna happen to all the middle of the road veterans? If all the rookies fresh off 4 years get 20 million and all the stars get 30 million plus how is anyone else supposed to get paid? An elaborate system of MLE that leaves every team over the cap with horrible teams full of players who can't play basketball but are very athletic!
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Mar 8, 2017 15:08
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Everyone wants to be Chandler Parsons.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:13
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chilihead posted:I seriously don't understand why this board champions player salaries so much, in any sport. I could go on about how the Conley's and Horfords of the world make superstar money, but that's just a byproduct of the system right now. Instead i will focus on the rookies, they get paid millions to develop for 4 years into flawed players. Then teams have to decide if they should pony up bigger bucks or let them become roleplayers on the better teams. It's because arbitrarily limiting how much you can pay for labor in any industry is increadibly hosed up. Lebron brings way more money to the cavs than they could ever feasibly pay him because there is a salary cap and maximum contracts. People should be paid fair market value for their labor, period. For some reason people are totally ok with that not bein the case in sports.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:16
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RaySmuckles posted:well Top comment for this video: quote:That's one of the biggest differences with Jordan & Lebron, if Jordan saw a good defender about to guard him, he will relish the challenge & make a point he can't be guarded. Lebron likes the easiest path always, if he see something to difficult or chance of not winning he simply won't enter.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:25
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Like the dunk contest!
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Mar 8, 2017 15:29
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Jordan would have never decided not to play Basketball despite being physically capable of it.
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Mar 8, 2017 15:33
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chilihead posted:If all the rookies fresh off 4 years get 20 million and all the stars get 30 million plus how is anyone else supposed to get paid? An elaborate system of MLE that leaves every team over the cap with horrible teams full of players who can't play basketball but are very athletic! This is the fakest of strawmen. Not all rookies get 20 mil a year, the vast majority do not. Veteran players themselves were once rookies, if you pay rookies better, eventually Veterans get better career earnings. chilihead posted:Then teams have to decide if they should pony up bigger bucks or let them become roleplayers on the better teams. This would be a good point if Restricted Free Agency didn't exist, but it does. After a rookie contract, his team gets to decide where he plays. They get to match any offer. How is that unfair to the teams?
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Mar 8, 2017 15:58
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Paul Zuvella posted:It's because arbitrarily limiting how much you can pay for labor in any industry is increadibly hosed up. Lebron brings way more money to the cavs than they could ever feasibly pay him because there is a salary cap and maximum contracts. People care more about their sport being entertaining than an embodiment of a pure capitalistic marketplace. And when they view those players as making significantly more than them anyway, it kind of has less impact to them. "If we can't get LeBron a $100M a year deal, then how can we ever address wage fixing schemes in the tech industry" isn't the most effective battlecry. WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 16:27
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chilihead posted:I seriously don't understand why this board champions player salaries so much, in any sport.
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Mar 8, 2017 16:27
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Paul Zuvella posted:It's because arbitrarily limiting how much you can pay for labor in any industry is increadibly hosed up. Lebron brings way more money to the cavs than they could ever feasibly pay him because there is a salary cap and maximum contracts. i disagree. most sports are team sports, which means that no matter how valuable your star player is, they still need people around them to actually be able to compete. that leaves the league with two options: salary caps with limits on contracts or no salary caps which allows rich teams to buy championships and the league gets totally skewed. none of the top guys are hurting for money, by any stretch, nor would they be as valuable without other players around them. no one wants to se the best teams in the league be a bunch of solid middling talent while the best players are stranded on teams where they gobble up 90% of the cap space. and ultimately its an entertainment product so there need to be rules in place regarding team composition so that the fans enjoy the games/league. contracts seem to be the best way to negotiate that, though things are getting kind of crazy with the cap and salaries skyrocketing to the point where we're now seeing the first team trade a player in part because they didn't want to pay him that new super max. ultimately i don't know the best solution. i personally wouldn't want to see a league with no cap because there are plenty of leagues around the world like that and i don't want the nba to turn into real madrid v barcelona for the rest of eternity. i also don't want to see a league where top players are 75% of a teams cap. i also don't want to see a league where the cap is so high it inherently hinders small market teams. whoever brought up the point that journeymen and middle-level players are already getting capped out, i think that's a good point. i think the next couple years are going to be pretty interesting in regards to cap management and contracts. i feel like a lot of the teams are already totally capped out and player salary demands are just going up and up leaving teams with almost no room to maneuver. i also admit i don't know too much about it all. i just think its important to remember that its a team game so everyone's important, that its a risky league to try to even get into because the possibly of washing out/injury are really high and that leaves players with few alternative skill sets for post career success, no one wants to see stars surrounded by cap limited crap, and no one wants the cap(or lack there of) to impact the competitiveness of the league. welp, there're my poorly thought out, undereducated cap thoughts.
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Mar 8, 2017 16:40
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Yeah the owners are basically rentier capitalists who make half of the money the league makes by virtue of having the capital to own a team.
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Mar 8, 2017 16:40
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"Sports is the only time in which the public side with billionaires over millionaires during a work stoppage"
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Mar 8, 2017 16:48
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straight up brolic posted:Yeah the owners are basically rentier capitalists who make half of the money the league makes by virtue of having the capital to own a team.
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Mar 8, 2017 16:55
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straight up brolic posted:Yeah the owners are basically rentier capitalists who make half of the money the league makes by virtue of having the capital to own a team. The owners half of the BRI split also is how all coaches, scouts, trainers, sales guys, marketing guys, admins, etc get their paycheck. There are far more people who draw paychecks from that half than do from the Players half. There is a lot to cut up from there, but your statement makes it sound like it just goes into a bank account and that's not true. RaySmuckles posted:i think the next couple years are going to be pretty interesting in regards to cap management and contracts. i feel like a lot of the teams are already totally capped out and player salary demands are just going up and up leaving teams with almost no room to maneuver. This has always been true and there haven't been any changes to this in a while. The %s of max players have stayed more or less the same, and the number of guys who have larger percentages because of recent rules can be counted on one hand. The only difference is a couple years of large cap increases that everyone got used to having a bunch of cap space because max players salary percentages were artificially low. We're just going back to how the league has operated for the past decade. Teams are not anymore limited in making moves than they were before the years of exploding cap. Just this season a back-to-back Finals team added a max player by only making a few moves. THAT is unusual and against the spirit of the CBA, not the fact that a maxed out team cannot add another all-star.
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Mar 8, 2017 16:55
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A league with 30 Donald Sterling owners but Lebron, CP3, KD, Curry etc. would still be very successful. A league with 30 *insert platonic ideal of an owner here* but no stars would fail. The owners get half the profit because they own the buildings, usually taxpayer subsidised don't forget, and that's about it. They players association could form a breakaway league and run it as a workers co-operative where they share all the profits between themselves and be much better off. It could've happened in the 70s, but now they would be locked out of a lucrative television deal by the networks, partly to discourage the MLB or NFL doing the same, and without a TV deal it wouldn't work now. If you think it that can't happen to a sport where the players mutiny and take it over, well it already did in tennis in 1972 when the top players broke away and formed the ATP which now runs the game. They hire executives to handle the organisational matters, but there is an elected board of players that has veto power over any individual decisions, plus they can remove the CEO at any time and replace them with someone else. Obviously that's in an individual sport not a team sport so you'd need to figure out some way of appointing people to run teams and hire coaches/GMs and so on. You could do that by having all the teams hold elections for supporters as they do in many European soccer teams - most notably Real Madrid and FC Barcelona - where you have elections for team president run on a four year cycle that season ticket holders vote in. tanglewood1420 fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 16:56
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RaySmuckles posted:i disagree. most sports are team sports, which means that no matter how valuable your star player is, they still need people around them to actually be able to compete. that leaves the league with two options: salary caps with limits on contracts or no salary caps which allows rich teams to buy championships and the league gets totally skewed. I'd go with option three: a salary cap with no limits on contracts Here's a link that gives an example of how well that option works.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:03
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No gods, no owners. Basketball worker cooperatives. Replace Dolan with three of those Sacramento parking lot robots and bring New York peace once and for all. Oak will man the National Razor, Brought to You By Nate Duncan and Dollar Shave Club. This is what we could have had if Bernie Sanders had won.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:08
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straight up brolic posted:Yeah the owners are basically rentier capitalists who make half of the money the league makes by virtue of having the capital to own a team.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:08
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Zogo posted:Dirk will pass Julius Erving in NBA/ABA scoring soon. He probably won't reach Wilt unless he plays two more years. That was great link, thanks.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:16
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Paul Zuvella posted:Yeah the owners are basically rentier capitalists who make half of the money the league makes by virtue of having the capital to own a team. Owning a team only requires capital due to the current closed shop franchise model that exists in US team sports.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:20
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The NBA middle class is definitely overpaid, but I think that's going to happen even if you let LeBron get like 50% of the cap. GMs are always going to spend big money to try to put talent around their stars.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:34
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Mr. Mambold posted:That was great link, thanks. Seconding this. Those old dudes played harder than players in the current All-Star game.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:45
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straight up brolic posted:Yeah the owners are basically rentier capitalists who make half of the money the league makes by virtue of having the capital to own a team. This but not just owners of sports teams.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:52
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RCarr posted:Seconding this. Those old dudes played harder than players in the current All-Star game. Well of course. They weren't risking their livelihoods for a meaningless exhibition game.
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Mar 8, 2017 17:52
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The majority of owners have also owned their teams long enough to see the value increase exponentially, especially with more and more expensive arenas being built on the taxpayer dime In the Rockets case for example, the team was purchased 24 years ago for $85 million and is now worth $1.25 billion. Pretty nice rate of return there Intruder fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 18:11
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dokmo posted:Well of course. They weren't risking their livelihoods for a meaningless exhibition game. I'm willing to bet the majority of allstars in the NBA right now have enough cash to maintain fantastic lives on the offchance they get injured in an allstar game.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:32
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Doltos posted:I'm willing to bet the majority of allstars in the NBA right now have enough cash to maintain fantastic lives on the offchance they get injured in an allstar game. But their championship pursuits may end. They still have things to play for.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:46
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Doltos posted:I'm willing to bet the majority of allstars in the NBA right now have enough cash to maintain fantastic lives on the offchance they get injured in an allstar game. I know you're only 27 and have been working for this dream since you were 10 years old, but according to this actuary chart I see no reason why you shouldn't bust your rear end on a Sunday afternoon all-star game and risk ending your career. Kevin Hart is going to dress up like a fat person during halftime, so I guess you have motivation to last that long.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:02
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Where other publications get into writing fanfic at this time of year, SA writes about the labor practices of the NBA. I love it.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:11
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I've had ten whole days off over the last six months and I've been nursing this ankle sprain for weeks but I'd better bust my rear end for some entitled nerd on the internet.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:11
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https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/839536454749454336
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Mar 8, 2017 19:12
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dokmo posted:I've had ten whole days off over the last six months and I've been nursing this ankle sprain for weeks but I'd better bust my rear end for some entitled nerd on the internet. Yep. If they don't like it then don't be a professional athlete. I'll go tell the single mothers out there who bust their asses 365 days a year with no offdays making 35k supporting a family that the poor superstars deserve a week off.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:17
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Why risk injury on a meaningless regular season when you're 15th place, 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, 10th, 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd place. Better call it a day and not risk hurting yourself. Also hire someone to carry you around, you don't want to get a sprain walking, you're worth millions after all. Also don't participate in kids camps or community exhibition games or international games or play any type of recreational activities with your friends and family, that's an injury risk too
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Mar 8, 2017 19:18
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*smugly sits back on chair* yeah I owned those nerds
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Mar 8, 2017 19:19
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Also you know these guys play pick up games and play with more effort than the all star game. I bet LeBron plays harder against his son in his driveway.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:20
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Doltos posted:Yep. If they don't like it then don't be a professional athlete. I'll go tell the single mothers out there who bust their asses 365 days a year with no offdays making 35k supporting a family that the poor superstars deserve a week off. Those single moms sure will appreciate watching Carmelo try on defense during the all-star game.
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Mar 8, 2017 19:21
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These fuckers better not practice anymore, that poo poo is dangerous they can get hurt!
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Mar 8, 2017 19:24
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Confiscate jr smiths oxboard, I bet that's how he got hurt. Also did he just have a new baby? Start sending men into athlete's houses to procreate with their wives if they want kids, we're paying them millions to perform in front of fans not blow their backs at home
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Mar 8, 2017 19:25
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