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Maybe it'll be reverse Luke Cage where the latter half is great and the first half is terrible.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:35
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Who knows, apparently the first 6 episodes have little action and a lot of corporate scenes, maybe the 2nd half is where things get good and actiony. Maybe Disney should have paid for the best fight choreographers to make the action not poo poo too?
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Mar 8, 2017 18:51
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It is really disheartening to hear, I was really looking forward to this show. I'll still watch, but not expecting a whole lot.
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Mar 8, 2017 18:51
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I get that the show is probably racist or casually racist or whatever, but martial arts are not strictly an Asian thing. So of the best martial artists and fighters are western/white people. Punching belongs to everyone and there aren't many people better at it than Conor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather. I'm likely just being pedantic
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Mar 8, 2017 20:11
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Finn Jones literally quit twitter after getting in a bunch of arguments about it so boy oh boy am I looking forward to Internet Discourse on this topic for the next ohhhhh ten years.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:18
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omg chael crash posted:I get that the show is probably racist or casually racist or whatever, but martial arts are not strictly an Asian thing. So of the best martial artists and fighters are western/white people. Punching belongs to everyone and there aren't many people better at it than Conor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather. That said, Iron Fist isn't the story about an up and coming MMA fighter. Its a literal cookie cutter outdated "well-to-do white dude learns to be the best at something thanks to the help of strange foreigners." It's a pretty tired trope and honestly, not really one worth defending, especially with a C list character like Iron Fist.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:27
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omg chael crash posted:I get that the show is probably racist or casually racist or whatever, but martial arts are not strictly an Asian thing. So of the best martial artists and fighters are western/white people. Punching belongs to everyone and there aren't many people better at it than Conor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather. It's not that the best martial artist is a white guy so much that he's the best at an explicitly Asian martial arts style. It'd be less an issue if he crashed in Appalachia and learned ancient West Virginian martial arts from hill billies.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:37
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Skwirl posted:It's not that the best martial artist is a white guy so much that he's the best at an explicitly Asian martial arts style. It'd be less an issue if he crashed in Appalachia and learned ancient West Virginian martial arts from hill billies. Wanna see this
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Mar 8, 2017 20:51
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Being Asian doesn't make you better at Asian developed martial arts either. The problem is that it's always the white guy who's the best at it.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:04
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Aphrodite posted:Being Asian doesn't make you better at Asian developed martial arts either. Yeah, the issue is a white guy appropriating Asian culture, not that it's a non-Asian guy.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:06
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As with all things race, it's not the individual problems but the trend. The only time you saw an Asian on the Marvel Netflix shows was when some ninja did three backflips and threw Kung Fu at Matt Murdock or someone else. It was literally my only gripe with DD1, and they never really fixed it. Iron Fist was an opportunity to address this in some way, but instead, Asian characters on the shows are only brought on for their martial arts, and a white dude who doesn't seem to have been a great casting choice in general ended up getting the gig. On top of the martial arts people with the best writing and exposition being Matt Murdock and Stick. I'm reminded of the people who made the point that the GitS adapters insists that the universe and setting are not Japanese, and that they're not appropriating culture, at the same time as they literally use robot "geishas" front and centre in all their promotional material next to Scarlett Johansson. ufarn fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 21:12
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The premise is just way too sticky, really. White-guy IF = People bitching about the dumb as poo poo "white saviour" trope. Asian IF = People bitching about typecasting the one Asian protagonist in the MCU. Also it kinda doesn't help that DC basically did this poo poo 5 years ago with Arrow. Rich white kid ends up stranded and learns from foreigners (the Chinese ex-soldier and the Aussie black ops guy), trains, and comes back to save the city. Were there even any comparisons between IF and Arrow in those reviews? I'm too lazy to read most of em.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:16
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Scyantific posted:The premise is just way too sticky, really. White-guy IF = People bitching about the dumb as poo poo "white saviour" trope. Asian IF = People bitching about typecasting the one Asian protagonist in the MCU. This is the exact same plot of Batman Begins as well
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Mar 8, 2017 21:20
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Dacap posted:This is the exact same plot of Batman Begins as well Now that you mention it, how did people handle that bit with Ra's al Ghul not being "of proper ethnicity?" (gently caress I cannot believe I'm asking this). Did they freak out or pass it off? Matt Nable looked pretty middle-eastern in the Arrow version, but let's not talk about that.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:23
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ufarn posted:As with all things race, it's not the individual problems but the trend. Look if I'm just some floating consciousness in a robot shell, and one of the options is Scarlett Johansson... Scyantific posted:The premise is just way too sticky, really. White-guy IF = People bitching about the dumb as poo poo "white saviour" trope. Asian IF = People bitching about typecasting the one Asian protagonist in the MCU. Not really, because that's been Green Arrow's origin for long enough now. Nobody even remembers his old one. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 21:25
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Scyantific posted:The premise is just way too sticky, really. White-guy IF = People bitching about the dumb as poo poo "white saviour" trope. Asian IF = People bitching about typecasting the one Asian protagonist in the MCU. With Arrow, he isn't really explicitly becoming a master of an ancient Asian artform. Though the League stuff sweeps in and then goes right ahead and does it anyway. Same for Batman. Scyantific posted:Now that you mention it, how did people handle that bit with Ra's al Ghul not being "of proper ethnicity?" (gently caress I cannot believe I'm asking this). Did they freak out or pass it off? Matt Nable looked pretty middle-eastern in the Arrow version, but let's not talk about that. Ras has a habit of being portrayed as white anyway so I don't think anyone blinks to see a white person playing him. At least his daughter, Nissa, wasn't super white I guess. As to your first point, there are other ethnic backgrounds besides white and Asian. The problem is that its always "Asians are martial arts masters, until a white person learns it and becomes the best" in these stories.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:30
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Honestly if they wanted to do it right it needed to be in production basically immediately after Daredevil season 1 to give it the time to do the fight production it really needed. You can get away with half-assing that poo poo with something like Luke Cage, because he doesn't really fight that much. He just crushes dudes effortlessly most of the time. Danny is all about the martial arts, so if the fights don't pop you are wasting everyone's time.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:30
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Yeah, having boring fights in the show about kung fu is a way bigger problem than the racial issues, especially with a lead that seems to lack any kind of charisma.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:31
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ToastyPotato posted:With Arrow, he isn't really explicitly becoming a master of an ancient Asian artform. Though the League stuff sweeps in and then goes right ahead and does it anyway. Same for Batman. At least in Begins, Bruce doesn't become particularly accomplished at it. He learns a bit sure, but he's not the best and leaves before he gets to the good stuff.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:37
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Aphrodite posted:At least in Begins, Bruce doesn't become particularly accomplished at it. He learns a bit sure, but he's not the best and leaves before he gets to the good stuff. Yeah, Begins at least made it so that Bruce was deeply flawed and imperfect, but the leader of the League was still technically a white dude. And in other mediums, Bruce is basically considered "the best" at a lot of things, including martial arts. Doesn't he know like 100 forms of fighting in the comics or some absurd number?
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Mar 8, 2017 21:43
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Comic Batman is a top 5 or so non-powered fighter in the world. Everyone better than him is Asian though! That makes it better, right?!
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Mar 8, 2017 21:46
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Aphrodite posted:At least in Begins, Bruce doesn't become particularly accomplished at it. He learns a bit sure, but he's not the best and leaves before he gets to the good stuff. He also learns a fake fighting style e: referring to krav maga specifically not just comic book made up martial arts MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 21:50
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Batman isn't even the greatest fighter within the batfamily according to the current writer of Batman https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/833702769487917057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Mar 8, 2017 21:57
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I'd imagine that kind of hard ranking is something that is subject to change depending on who is working on him. I just thought the general wisdom was that "Batman is best", except for when he isn't for current story reasons. Aphrodite posted:Comic Batman is a top 5 or so non-powered fighter in the world. 
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Mar 8, 2017 22:01
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Lady Shiva and Cassandra have been established as better than Bruce for a while now. From there people have extrapolated based on who else has managed to beat either of them etc., etc. but I don't think that kind of logic really works.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:05
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Skwirl posted:It's not that the best martial artist is a white guy so much that he's the best at an explicitly Asian martial arts style. It'd be less an issue if he crashed in Appalachia and learned ancient West Virginian martial arts from hill billies. 
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Mar 8, 2017 23:47
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I think that the issue is even beyond the race stuff this show sounds really loving bad I don't think I've seen a single positive review, even from the usual suspects who are all up on anything Marvel puts out
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Mar 8, 2017 23:56
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Blockhouse posted:I think that the issue is even beyond the race stuff this show sounds really loving bad
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Mar 9, 2017 00:03
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To be fair to Batman Begins Ken Watanabe was cast as Ras.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:42
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And Gotham cast Alexander Siddig
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Mar 9, 2017 02:01
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Madkal posted:To be fair to Batman Begins Ken Watanabe was cast as Ras.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:09
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BrianWilly posted:...Is my ability to detect sarcasm still broken from this forum or do you really not remember that film? A surprising number of people literally do not get that the twist is that Neeson was always playing Ra's and Ducard was an alias. Mostly because "b-b-but Ducard is a guy from the comics toooo!"
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Mar 9, 2017 02:37
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I know the twist but I thought people were asking if there was outrage when Ras was first cast and was replying to that instead of the twist.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:40
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Now that I think about it, something like that would NOT have been made blatantly obvious. They probably didn't even mention who Neeson was playing when they cast him.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:49
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According to this, he was announced as Ra's when he was cast. http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0062276/
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Mar 9, 2017 03:53
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I didn't know the original title for Batman Begins was Batman: Intimidation. Thank god someone at the studio got that changed.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:59
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Man, I was hoping against hope for Iron Fist to be an immigrant story. Both as a white guy growing up in Asia, and a guy coming to America for the first time. Sad stuff.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:00
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Aphrodite posted:Not really, because that's been Green Arrow's origin for long enough now. Nobody even remembers his old one. Also there's a long history of white people being great archers, both in reality (English longbowmen) and in fiction (Robin Hood, William Tell), so it couldn't be seen as cultural appropriation.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:02
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I didn't know the original title for Batman Begins was Batman: Intimidation. I'm pretty sure Intimidation Game was actually the name of the leaked script like a year before the movie came out. The script ended up being almost entirely exactly the same as the finished product so everyone that had read the script knew about the twist going in.
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Mar 9, 2017 04:21
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I didn't know (but suspected) that Neeesons was Ra's until a friend beat the video game before the movie was released.
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