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Somfin posted:Publishers are notoriously cagey about giving good marketing to games with non-white or non-male protagonists. This leads to the games having poor sales, which the publishers are free to blame on the protagonist, which feeds back into the cycle. Thankfully the overwhelming success of games like Undertale and Overwatch may have eased this a bit, as has the wild advocacy that non-traditional protagonists get in the fan press. That's why I was pretty happy about mafia 3 and bfone this year, even though bfone then decided to have only one mission with a black company which was the tutorial during which they all died.
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Mar 9, 2017 10:12
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Somfin posted:Publishers are notoriously cagey about giving good marketing to games with non-white or non-male protagonists. This leads to the games having poor sales, which the publishers are free to blame on the protagonist, which feeds back into the cycle. Thankfully the overwhelming success of games like Undertale and Overwatch may have eased this a bit, as has the wild advocacy that non-traditional protagonists get in the fan press. http://www.polygon.com/2012/12/12/3758170/the-last-of-us-developer-refused-to-push-female-lead-to-back-of-cover "I believe there's a misconception that if you put a girl or a woman on the cover, the game will sell less," he said. "I know I've been in discussions where we've been asked to push Ellie to the back and everyone at Naughty Dog just flat-out refused." The box art in question: 
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Mar 9, 2017 10:15
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Facebook Aunt posted:I doubt a significant number of people have boycotted a popular game in the genre they like over too much "PC". I imagine a number of people have boycotted games they never would have bought in the first place, because there are some ham-handed piece of poo poo games that try to get people to buy them because they are ethical. Yeah gaming boycotts always go well 
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Mar 9, 2017 10:25
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Fathis Munk posted:That's why I was pretty happy about mafia 3 and bfone this year, even though bfone then decided to have only one mission with a black company which was the tutorial during which they all died.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:00
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Honestly I'm just glad to get a unique setting that Mafia 3 gives. I'll never understand the "Everything and everybody has to be caucasian!" because that just robs us of so many interesting stories and locations. But they probably think putting Matt Damon in ancient China is a natural fit.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:02
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I can't get over this guy's KFC bucket shaped head. Somfin posted:Publishers are notoriously cagey about giving good marketing to games with non-white or non-male protagonists. This leads to the games having poor sales, which the publishers are free to blame on the protagonist, which feeds back into the cycle. Thankfully the overwhelming success of games like Undertale and Overwatch may have eased this a bit, as has the wild advocacy that non-traditional protagonists get in the fan press. Wasn't there a game a while back where the devs wanted to make the protagonist gay, but a kissing scene made the publishers freak out and force them to make the protagonist female or cut the scene?
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Mar 9, 2017 11:28
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Nuebot posted:I can't get over this guy's KFC bucket shaped head. I don't remember that one, but there was going to be a scene in Remember Me where the female main character kissed a dude, and the publishers made them cut it because it might make gamers feel weird to have the character they control kiss a boy.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:32
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Ularg posted:But they probably think putting Matt Damon in ancient China is a natural fit. Wasn't that a bid by the Chinese production company to attract western audiences with a big western actor? I mean it's a symptom of the same issues but iirc that's not on western producers for once. Also someone said he actually plays a Chinese dude, is that true? Because 
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Mar 9, 2017 11:51
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Fathis Munk posted:Wasn't that a bid by the Chinese production company to attract western audiences with a big western actor? I mean it's a symptom of the same issues but iirc that's not on western producers for once. Yeah, it's a Chinese production, and sadly the director is Yimou Zhang, the guy behind great films like Hero and Raise the Red Lantern. According to IMDB Damon's character is named William, so at least it seems they don't expect people to believe he's Chinese.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:57
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Fathis Munk posted:Wasn't that a bid by the Chinese production company to attract western audiences with a big western actor? I mean it's a symptom of the same issues but iirc that's not on western producers for once. Pretty sure it's the opposite. China has become a huge market for movies. But China regulation makes it so that if a western movie company wants to release in China they need to be co-created by a chinese company. They introduce Chinese actors to help meet those requirements and appeal themselves to the Chinese audience.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:59
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tyblazitar posted:Yeah, it's a Chinese production, and sadly the director is Yimou Zhang, the guy behind great films like Hero and Raise the Red Lantern. I think the idea isn't that his character is Chinese, but that the movie is based on an older story where the main character was Chinese. So while the story should have had a Chinese lead, as it is the character is a whitey.
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Mar 9, 2017 12:00
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As someone who watched the movie: - the movie is predominantly Chinese - white actors were hired because the draw of a big Hollywood star is attractive to Chinese moviegoers - Damon does not play a white savior, his character is an rear end in a top hat white imperialist thief who needs to be taught the eastern values of honour and loyalty to rise above himself, etc - his character helps in saving the day, but the female protagonist / non love interest plays a huge role in that - it is not based on any Chinese legend or folktale at all - it is based on the siege of helm s deep, the second Lord of the rings movie, and a lot of mobile moba game setting involving human armies defending against a swarm of monsters - William defoe is a minor villain to showcase how white people are greedy assholes - it is directed by Z Y M but it's loving bad, don't watch it
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Mar 9, 2017 12:13
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Ularg posted:Pretty sure it's the opposite. China has become a huge market for movies. But China regulation makes it so that if a western movie company wants to release in China they need to be co-created by a chinese company. They introduce Chinese actors to help meet those requirements and appeal themselves to the Chinese audience. this isn't true at all btw. China gets all the Hollywood blockbusters.
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Mar 9, 2017 12:16
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Nuebot posted:I can't get over this guy's KFC bucket shaped head. It's like they put all the ingredients for a head into an empty can, and stuck it under the broiler for a few minutes, and then turned it upside-down and shloooooop out comes this guy's brand-new head
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Mar 9, 2017 12:25
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 9gag: always outraged at the REAL issues.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:22
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"9gag: We Identify With The Nazis." Is basically what I see every time to make one of those memes with "haha funny german word" in it.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:27
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Whilst it's not PC, you can't really blame companies being hesitant when making decisions to introduce a non-traditional protaganist. What sells, sells. It's a pretty big and unnessary risk to appease people who are not a significant part of the market (think of gerrymandering in politics). The guy who mentioned Undertale made a good point. Your character is undetermined which is a pretty smart choice; and of course any game that allows character creation is great for this freedom of choice. I think that Force Awakens shows that people don't care too much about having a black protagonist or a female protagonist. There was a small minority of people who made a scene, but not enough to even put a scratch on the film's success. I bet that most of the boycotters eventually watched the film. Changing the sexuality of the character could have a negative effect because as one other guy said, many gamers may feel a little strange controlling a character that is a homosexual as most gamers are straight males, but I don't think it's down to homophobia, but more so that gamers like to project themselves into the story and the characters to be immersed.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:35
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if the only thing you can project yourself in is a carbon copy of yourself but cooler and getting all the girls. How boring your life must be.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:37
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Fathis Munk posted:
"No, you see you're all just a bunch of cucked little snowflakes that get so upset" *The crosswalk sign gets changed to a woman figure* "WAAAH WHY DO THEY ALWAYS MAKE EVERYTHING NOT ABOUT MEEE?!"
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Mar 9, 2017 13:43
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People have no problem projecting themselves onto foxes and bandicoots, but a human shaped or colored differently from them is a step too far for gamer imagination.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:44
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Manic X posted:Whilst it's not PC, you can't really blame companies being hesitant when making decisions to introduce a non-traditional protaganist. What sells, sells. It's a pretty big and unnessary risk to appease people who are not a significant part of the market (think of gerrymandering in politics). The guy who mentioned Undertale made a good point. Your character is undetermined which is a pretty smart choice; and of course any game that allows character creation is great for this freedom of choice. Who are the white male in the audience left to identify with? The little white cuckball.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:46
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The video game playing crowd is split pretty evenly into women and men; some studies even suggest that women are the slight majority. This "the average gamer is a (white) (straight) (cis) man" poo poo is getting so old. Someone make it stop already.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:50
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The green crossing Australian lady looks less like she's walking and more trying to hold in a pee.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:55
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Zephyrine posted:Didn't he have an American accent? It was pretty awkward with the rest of the cast sounding like SNL doing and Indian deli sketch. Altair looked exactly or almost exactly like Desmond, and Desmond was given fairly dark skin and ambiguous facial features to make his racial background muddled enough that he could be descended from Syrian, Italian, British, and Native American ancestry all at once.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:58
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Huntersoninski posted:People have no problem projecting themselves onto foxes and bandicoots, but a human shaped or colored differently from them is a step too far for gamer imagination. A Jungian reading might be that people play themselves as animals which is symbolic of subconscious urges, but playing a human figure involves more development internally.
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Mar 9, 2017 13:59
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Snoop Radley posted:The video game playing crowd is split pretty evenly into women and men; some studies even suggest that women are the slight majority. Bringing this up inevitably just gets you a 'yeah but women only play Farmville and other Facebook poo poo'.
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Mar 9, 2017 14:00
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I didn't say people had a problem playing as a different race, you've just put your own spin on my words without any valid argument - which is increasingly common these days. I was just pointing out that people will project themselves in the games. Funnily enough, you will find people play games that feel relevant to them or contains an interest to them. Like everyone who played Tony Hawks as a kid wishes they could be a pro skater so they bought the game as a way of trying to do that without the leg work - same with guitar hero. If you make your game centred around a protagonist that only a minority of people can relate to, then the sales will probably reflect this. The point about playing as animal like crash bandicoot debunking my opinion can be countered with the interview by naughty dog who said they deliberately left their character mute so players could decide on the character's personality for themselves... my opinion is more centred to games that have a heavy story, games like Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon were more for casual fun and not immersive in the same way. You will have noticed that for the past decade games like that are declining in favor of games with heavier stories and fleshed-out characters (e.g. Naughty Dog referring they wanted to keep making games like Uncharted because they enjoy the characters more, rather than going back to Crash).
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Mar 9, 2017 14:38
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Manic X posted:The point about playing as animal like crash bandicoot debunking my opinion can be countered with the interview by naughty dog who said they deliberately left their character mute so players could decide on the character's personality for themselves... my opinion is more centred to games that have a heavy story, games like Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon were more for casual fun and not immersive in the same way. You will have noticed that for the past decade games like that are declining in favor of games with heavier stories and fleshed-out characters (e.g. Naughty Dog referring they wanted to keep making games like Uncharted because they enjoy the characters more, rather than going back to Crash). Does that mean we can get a Crash Bandicoot game with the same budget and effort put into it as Uncharted?
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Mar 9, 2017 14:42
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No game allows me to play a Rhino 😭
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Mar 9, 2017 14:43
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Manic X posted:If you make your game centred around a protagonist that only a minority of people can relate to, then the sales will probably reflect this. Your argument hinges on the assumption that people can't relate to characters of different races, genders and sexualities from themselves. This is a weird assumption to me, especially considering how many "minorities" who also play video games.
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Mar 9, 2017 14:45
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Oh yeah sorry, I re read your post and you were just saying people could never identify with a gay character, sorry for taking your arguments so outta context  So tell me, do you only read books with straight white males as protagonists too? (it is me, I am the idiot for slap fighting)
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Mar 9, 2017 14:47
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Manic X posted:If you make your game centred around a protagonist that only a minority of people can relate to, then the sales will probably reflect this. So does that mean minorities and women never play video games because they can't identify with straight, cis, white, male protagonists?
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Mar 9, 2017 14:49
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I loved when Rust made your character's race completely beyond your control and people got upset about how they couldn't immerse themselves if they had to play someone not like themselves.
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Mar 9, 2017 14:50
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Glagha posted:I loved when Rust made your character's race completely beyond your control and people got upset about how they couldn't immerse themselves if they had to play someone not like themselves. Yeah that was p amazing. Iirc even dick size was RNG'd and you were stuck with it 
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Mar 9, 2017 14:53
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Manic X posted:If you make your game centred around a protagonist that only a minority of people can relate to, then the sales will probably reflect this. Hmm, yes, tell me more about how a certain treasure-hunting woman is so unrelateable that a new game is made in the franchise every few years.
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Mar 9, 2017 14:56
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Fathis Munk posted:Oh yeah sorry, I re read your post and you were just saying people could never identify with a gay character, sorry for taking your arguments so outta context Actually an interesting question. I personally don't play many games with indepth stories as I don't have the time to immerse myself. I guess I personally would not care at all. I'm trying to offer an insight into the mindset of the businesses, not necessarily on my preferences. But please stop with trying to insinuate I am racist when I never made any argument to suggest so. I think it is a subconcious thing that happens when a gamer projects themselves into the characters, not a choice. Like I know that no sane and self-respecting person would play a great game like Uncharted, find out in some sequel that Drake is gay and debase and boycott the game because of it.
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Mar 9, 2017 14:56
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So lately, I've been focused on truly understanding the forces that these globalists are either summoning, or being controlled by. I want to know exactly what sort of hypnosis we're all under. Recently, I stumbled upon Basil Le Croix aka Basil Crouch. He's a magician that seems to be in the background of the occult world, (everyone is all about Crowley) but I'm convinced that he's the real deal. I downloaded some of his books, and most of them come with written warnings and disclaimers. He claims that even reading about how to perform the rituals of these black orders can invoke something into your reality, even if you don't intend it to, so to be totally honest, that scared the poo poo outta me, and I've only read the introductions so far. I'm doing this not because I want to perform ritual black magick, but because I want to fully understand this black occult-driven conspiracy that I'm living within. I'm not satisfied with the research I've been doing, and want to dig deeper, to have that Aha! moment, when everything finally clicks in your mind, and you can see beyond the system you're enslaved to. Anyway, I'm not sure how much farther I want to go, prying into this material. I'm a firm believer in a powerful source consciousness, driving and evolving this whole show that we call life, so that it can evolve and perfect itself, but I'm also aware that the astral plane is filled with all kinds of entities, dark and light. I don't want to meddle with the dark ones, I really don't. But I want to understand. What is your take on magick? There are so many different mystery schools out there, black orders, cults, covens, and everything else you can imagine. Which path is the right path? Do all these paths lead to the same place? Why is it that we hear so much more about black magick than white magick? We are given this new age paradigm, which I'm becoming more and more convinced is a psy op for the populace to channel its energy into, a partial spirituality, that only gives you nuggets of truth, leaving the real and deeper keys to manifestation in the shadows. I've scoured the new age world, and it satisfied me for a while, but now I need more depth, much more. I think I've always wanted more information than I currently had access to. It does have enlightening pockets here and there, but for the most part, the new age movement feels like an energy diversion tactic. Oh, the peasants want to know where they came from, and what their true powers are as creators and destroyers, here, let's give them this (tptb throw new age at us.) That's kinda what it feels like. Do you feel that these globalists are Atheistic Satanists (do not believe in Satan as a literal entity, and focus on self-sufficiency, discovering your latent power of manifestation, and being your own God) or Theistic Satanists (believe in Satan as a literal God-like entity, and practice darker magick)? There's also lots of research that these globalists worship Saturn / El / Baal. Which is it? What do they actually believe in and worship? I realize that there are many different factions within the Illuminati, but I guess I'm speaking generally. If you have info on all these factions, that's certainly welcome though. Where does positive thinking / intention come into all of this? I know that intention is a key element to all magick, but I feel that intention from a new age standpoint is partial knowledge / understanding. There's something missing from it, ya know? I can't explain it, but a lot more people's lives would be transformed if it were a complete set of knowledge / understanding, and all the history that comes with that. Where are all the ancient texts that describe the white magick rituals for transforming your life, where you can work with beings of light? Our collective consciousness has been flooded with dark entities, dark magick, dark subject matter, and that's understandable, because that is what our 'controllers' believe in. The dark side also makes for better entertainment (entrainment) and programming. I'm trying to understand both sides though, the dark forces that our global elite are either summoning, or controlled by, and the history of this world of light magick, which has been deliberately hidden from us, so that we can't manifest in a positive way. For example, an ancient book about the metaphysical differences of manifesting through source consciousness vs manifesting through some entity, would be very helpful indeed. Also a very important question... Are the globalists being controlled by alien life forms, spiritual entities, or both?
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Mar 9, 2017 14:57
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Manic X posted:Actually an interesting question. I personally don't play many games with indepth stories as I don't have the time to immerse myself. I guess I personally would not care at all. I'm trying to offer an insight into the mindset of the businesses, not necessarily on my preferences. But please stop with trying to insinuate I am racist when I never made any argument to suggest so. I think it is a subconcious thing that happens when a gamer projects themselves into the characters, not a choice. Like I know that no sane and self-respecting person would play a great game like Uncharted, find out in some sequel that Drake is gay and debase and boycott the game because of it. Just for the record, I'm not insinuating you're racist, I'm saying that your argument is wrong and sucks imo. I'll leave it at that, there is no point in continuing this here 
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Mar 9, 2017 15:00
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The Saddest Rhino posted:No game allows me to play a Rhino 😭 Ahem. 
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Mar 9, 2017 15:01
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Fathis Munk posted:Just for the record, I'm not insinuating you're racist, I'm saying that your argument is wrong and sucks imo. In which case, I apologise for my assumption.
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Mar 9, 2017 15:24
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