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Syrnn posted:Been trying Bretonnia out and I'm mostly pleased. The worst part of it is trying to gain ground whatsoever is a bit of a chore. It's nice to have Trebuchets from the start, but I'm still hopelessly bad at siege battles if I don't bring siege towers, but I keep trying to force it for saving campaign time. Is there any way to damage fortifications like in Shogun 2? All my wizards will do is damage buildings/units or assassinate, but obviously they can't breach the walls or anything. Does damaging the Settlement building itself get rid of some of the bonus garrison? Anything like that? I would love to stop sending peasants to the death by the thousand scaling walls. Some heroes have a specific 'damage walls' action but Bretonnia doesn't have heroes that can do that.
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Mar 10, 2017 11:01
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I'm not sure how Brets conquer fortified settlements at all. Just siege them out?
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Mar 10, 2017 11:30
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I seige with brets like a variant of dwarves - loads of archers, loads of trebs. Trebs to knock down towers, while archers sweep the walls. If you are cavalry heavy, you can have a secondary force break through the second set of gates, and so pincer the defending force from behind. Only foot squires in seige towers will do much good at attacking the walls.
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Mar 10, 2017 11:35
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The Lone Badger posted:I'm not sure how Brets conquer fortified settlements at all. Just siege them out? Wave after wave of peasants
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Mar 10, 2017 12:24
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Get the Royal Air Force. Royal Pegasus Knights and Hippogryffs don't care about your walls.
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Mar 10, 2017 14:16
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Rogue 7 posted:Get the Royal Air Force. Royal Pegasus Knights and Hippogryffs don't care about your walls.
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Mar 10, 2017 14:27
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Someone mentioned the stat changes for mounts when mousing over the skill are not accurate. So how do I tell how exactly they change the unit's stats? I don't understand why you can't mouse over them in the character's info page to see exactly how much more HP/speed/etc various mounts/chariots/etc give you but apparently unlike all other equipment it doesn't tell you squat.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:04
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I don't think the stat changes are inaccurate, it's just that it doesn't really cover the important stuff - like mass, acceleration, how it changes attack animations.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:13
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Fangz posted:I don't think the stat changes are inaccurate, it's just that it doesn't really cover the important stuff - like mass, acceleration, how it changes attack animations. It also ignores any equipment and (I think) stats you have from putting points into skills. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:17
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wiegieman posted:Isabella has some good unique army buffs, especially for vargheists. She gets a hellsteed and arcane conduit, so she should go heavy into caster. Vlad should get raise dead, then his unique skills (especially the xp one) and whatever you feel like. Her Vargheist and Fellbat buffs are hysterical. Vargheists become able to actually stand up to enemies in straight fights. And given how they fight two can just land in the middle of an army of units and butcher them with minimal support. Fellbats are actually useful as Isabella now. They're still cannon fodder, but they get a ton of melee defense to make up for that. Given Fellbat's mobility you can run an army with minimal ground troops and just have Isabella and a few vampires roaming the battlefield surrounded by a horde of bats and degenerated vampires like something out of a horror movie. It's surprisingly effective against many enemies. Depending on the choices of the enemy troops they either act as a screen for the vampires or the vampires tank the hits and let them munch away at them. Failing that, you can use Fellbats as a sort of mobile "support" troop. Don't send them in alone. Send them in with the Vargheists or other unit with some armor. When the Vargheists need to pull out to heal or do another charge attack they'll help cover their retreat unless the group is heavily outnumbered. Or if it's a regiment of grave guard they'll help screen the damage they take and give them an edge. The real gems though are the Varghulf and Terrorgheist buffs. With them you can fill the backbone of your army out to give it some tanking power. They get extra melee stats, which turns the Terrorgheist in particular into a nightmare. It's already one of the strongest units in the game in terms of raw offensive power. Putting Isabella's buff on top of that means that a duelist/single target hero like Karl Franz needs to go out of their way to kill the thing while it's in the air to take it out easily. And him fighting it on the ground tends to go very bad very fast for the poor bastard since it's fighting style will gently caress him up on anything but a mount. Basically if you're not playing Isabella as the vampire in the duo that loves her monstrous children you're doing it wrong. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 15:18
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Isabella's armor buffs to Vargheists are significant. The way I see it, any unit that had 0 (or 10, I think in the case of many 'beast' units) going up to 45 seems like a HUGE jump in survivability. It means garbage chaff units that normally struggle to cut through butter at the dinner table won't grind down their health. Generally the biggest threat to a flying unit are missile units, but only a few specialist missile units have armor piercing, so getting peppered by arrows becomes much less of an issue.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:23
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Aurubin posted:This is a little Does she not get to deal with spawned orcs for 20 turns like the rest of the Bret starts? I haven't played as her yet because as soon as I saw that starting war I just noped out (MY LORE) and I'm literally going to learn to mod the drat game just so I can switch that setup around. Even when I was playing WE back at their release I didn't understand starting allied with Angrund or at war with Carcassonne and I kinda thought it should be the other way around - now that they stuck the Bret LL who is arguably most closely bound to the WEs in that spot and left the war in I think so even more strongly. I'm just not sure how best to represent their relationship within TW's diplomacy system - any thoughts? I don't see why the Broken Nose tribe can't be their starting enemy, honestly, they're close enough and aggressive enough (as is Khazrak). Can you attack Estalia or will that tank your chivalry?
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Mar 10, 2017 15:28
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Panfilo posted:Isabella's armor buffs to Vargheists are significant. The way I see it, any unit that had 0 (or 10, I think in the case of many 'beast' units) going up to 45 seems like a HUGE jump in survivability. It means garbage chaff units that normally struggle to cut through butter at the dinner table won't grind down their health. Generally the biggest threat to a flying unit are missile units, but only a few specialist missile units have armor piercing, so getting peppered by arrows becomes much less of an issue. Yeah, the only things that can stand up to them are specialists like pikemen or later tier units. And since they're a flying unit they can just skip around them or commit to combat once they're all tied down. Two or three of them can just wreck poo poo by charging into it as one big blob of giant vampiric death. I've had entire segments of the enemy's line retreat just because of the morale damage they do when plowing into a regiment followed by ten or fifteen seconds of getting pasted. Couple that with their ability to do massive AOE knockback damage and you have a really good unit that only she can use to it's maximum effectiveness. Doubly so if you pick up a spell that gives them extra morale penalties to enemies. Also, for fun install the mod that makes combat look and be much more active. Animated Combat basically increases the amount of attacks so that regiments don't just stand there with one or two guys periodically taking shots at each other. Oh no. With it activated they lay into each other like a real fight would be. This includes doing damage and defending, so you've got attacks bouncing off of shields, people sword fighting each other, and the heroes actually duel each other and monsters now. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=700177199 This has the side effect of giving monsters increased attack frequencies too. Playing as any vampiric faction in the past meant that you could watch a glorious orgy of destruction once you get enough monsters. Isabella in particular though ramps the carnage up to an insane level. Given the much more animated combat you just have to pay close attention to some of them since if they get surrounded they'll die fast due to getting flanked and not being able to peel the enemies off of them. Edit: Dallan Invictus posted:Does she not get to deal with spawned orcs for 20 turns like the rest of the Bret starts? I haven't played as her yet because as soon as I saw that starting war I just noped out (MY LORE) and I'm literally going to learn to mod the drat game just so I can switch that setup around. Even when I was playing WE back at their release I didn't understand starting allied with Angrund or at war with Carcassonne and I kinda thought it should be the other way around - now that they stuck the Bret LL who is arguably most closely bound to the WEs in that spot and left the war in I think so even more strongly. I'm just not sure how best to represent their relationship within TW's diplomacy system - any thoughts? I mentioned it before, but it's actually a really good thing those Orcs are there. Carcassone is the faction that best plays as looking out for Bretonnia first and foremost. With the right research and decisions on the map you can buddy up to the wood elves, be on a path to confederating many of the Bretonnian nations, have a ton of chivalry, and some insane buffs. Like 20-40% damage wards for the Enchantress, the terror buff from killing Khazrak on her, and a 20% damage ward for her entire army. She's a goddamn beast and a good part of it is that it's very easy to get the chivalry buffs that turn Bretonnian armies into a nightmare to fight. The only catch is that you can never, ever, ever, back down from a fight with her. If her army gets engaged and she retreats she loses many of the awesome buffs she gets as part of her intro to the campaign. And since her campaign buffs, red line skills, and start are heavily geared around lots of cannon fodder that's a bad thing. That being said, if you're looking for an offensive faction that runs around conquering neighbouring countries then your best bet is to play another faction leader. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 15:29
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I'm really making the most out of Fae's damage aura. Putting her on her unicorn means you can basically grind down whole clumps of enemies passively and its kind of funny to see all these guys just spontaneously drop dead.
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Mar 10, 2017 15:44
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Archonex posted:That being said, if you're looking for an offensive faction that runs around conquering neighbouring countries then your best bet is to play another faction leader. It's good to know that I'm on the right track, since what you describe in that Good Post is really how I want to play her, I just think the starting setup is a bit at odds with that (seems like a leftover they didn't get around to changing when they made Carcassonne playable).
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Mar 10, 2017 15:51
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Dallan Invictus posted:It's good to know that I'm on the right track, since what you describe in that Good Post is really how I want to play her, I just think the starting setup is a bit at odds with that (seems like a leftover they didn't get around to changing when they made Carcassonne playable). The elf thing makes sense if you consider that just about every other faction starts off with another faction at war with them. I figure they threw her being at war with the wood elves in as just a "Sure, why the gently caress not?" sort of thing. It's not like she has anything else to go to war with. If she was at war with the Beastmen then they'd get stomped due to both the wood elves and Carcassone (Two factions close to each other, and with fairly powerful units.) teaming up to take them down. And Tilea is too far away for it to be that engaging. Though, her being at war with the wood elves does sort of make sense from a canon perspective. If the game starts post Season of Revelation then they'd definitely consider loving with Bretonnia. Which would cause the Fae Enchantress to get a bit pissy. From what I recall of the canon the Season of Revelation actually did happen. And in the aftermath of it the Season of Retribution happened. Which lead to Ariel's (The other wood elf leader and technically Orion's queen.) sister being murdered and her basically going nuts and saying "gently caress it. We don't need alliances or patsies. We're going to burn the rest of the world down to make sure I can never be hurt again.". It's only after all the Wood Elves get fed up with Ariel's poo poo and try to depose her (And she doesn't take that well either.) that they start actually being a beneficial force to the outside world again. And they actually end up being really sorry for that whole mess. Which is kind of appropriate, since Orion will usually actually sue for a non aggression pact and then greater relations if you wait long enough without doing anything to antagonize the Wood Elves while keeping the Beastmen away from their lands. Some of this vaguely gets touched on in the Wood Elf campaign. Though it's done in that embarrassed "We shall never speak of this to outsiders." sort of way they do in the aftermath of realizing that Ariel was a lunatic. The talk of corrupted glades and places the Wood Elves cannot tread may in fact be an allusion to those events. Archonex fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 16:11
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Dallan Invictus posted:It's good to know that I'm on the right track, since what you describe in that Good Post is really how I want to play her, I just think the starting setup is a bit at odds with that (seems like a leftover they didn't get around to changing when they made Carcassonne playable). Just think of it a a Wild Hunt at game start, all the WElf factions have a bonus to relations with the Enchantress, so if Orion acts aggressively towards you, they'll start to hate him and like you. Just decide from game start if you want to fight him or not. IMO it's not totally unloreful that as part of the whole Bretonnia ascendant thing, the Enchantress would want to stop the particular facet of the Fey that likes to ride around pillaging Bretonnia. If you want to make peace, ignore him. He won't do more than raid for a long time, especially if your stack is near your garrison, and eventually the innate boost to relations plus killing beastmen and all he'll make peace, and you can go from there. If you want to fight him, well, you'll still need to avoid him but you can opportunistically attack his stacks if they enter your land, and farm your heroes attacking his poo poo. He'll hate you, but the innate bonus from the other elves, who don't have affinity with Orion iirc (at least none that show up in my screen- and I think Durthu dislikes him already at the start) will because of liking you start getting pissed at him for attacking you, then liking you for attacking him, and finally you can even get alliances with them. Once they're friendly to you Orion is much less of a threat, as he can no longer confederate and snowball. Eventually either your allies will kill him or burn his poo poo yourself and let one of them resettle. Hard mode is take the anti-Welf tech and try to kill them all off.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:12
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How do I use the hippogryph knights? I made a handful of them towards the end of the campaign but the one time I used them, they got significantly less kills than royal pegasi doing the exact same thing.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:12
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Thinking on it it seems pretty drat loreful that to get Orion to like you as the Enchantress you just have to let him get his Wild Hunt on till he decides to go home.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:22
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Are Ultramarines just Speiss Empire dudes? I swear I've seen 'Sigmar' shoehorned into there somewhere. I think it was colossally stupid of Games Workshop not to actually merge both franchises. The explanation I've heard is they didn't want to 'compete with themselves'. But cmon, Daemons and the patron gods are the same and they made analogues for most of the races anyway.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:27
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Why exactly should they do it? What would they gain?
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Mar 10, 2017 16:39
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It was fun when there were hints of them being in the same universe, like that one time Khorne told some uppity khornate gently caress who was boasting to his god that hes not even remotely as cool as Kharne the Betrayer then showed him visions of his murder sprees, prompting the guy to go "Gosh! Thats who i want to be when i grow up.." but i wouldn't want them to actually be the same since it would more or less make the Warhammer world completely pointless.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:45
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vintagepurple posted:Thinking on it it seems pretty drat loreful that to get Orion to like you as the Enchantress you just have to let him get his Wild Hunt on till he decides to go home. Yeah, thinking on it more with additional info it makes more sense (still don't get Orion's Angrund alliance but w/e). Thanks for talking me through my  , I guess I can just let him tantrum rather than go MAXIMUM GENOCIDE, which is my usual response to being war-decced in 4Xes for some reason.Kainser posted:Why exactly should they do it? What would they gain? Yeah, there's really no point to merging them any more than "maybe this is the distant past of one planet or something, who cares?" or the vague hints that existed in various places. I mean, that's a lot of why everyone hates AoS, isn't it? Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 16:46
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Kainser posted:Why exactly should they do it? What would they gain? For the cheers joy of Games Workshop rules for, say, a Bretonnia Vs Tau match-up.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:47
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ZearothK posted:For the cheers joy of Games Workshop rules for, say, a Bretonnia Vs Tau match-up. Just write your own rules dude.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:50
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Goddamn Battle Pilgrims are holding their shields upside down, I just noticed this.  THIS IS WHY PEASANTS CANT HAVE NICE THINGS!
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Mar 10, 2017 16:52
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Is there any reason in particular why the Empire tech tree is a pile of expensive useless garbage? For +5 leadership on some cavalry units you need a Tier 4 settlement, 15000 gold for the stables and then 15 turns to actually research it. And even if you bum rushed it would still take dozens of turns to get the required prerequisites for. Some of them are pretty ok like the +10 armor for State Troopers, except Greatswords because  . But most of them are so tight fisted in their boons and take such an unnecessarily long time to unlock that it feels like someone made a mistake in designing it.Also since I'm bitching, Empire Offices suck too.  -10% in the local region? CA this power creep must end.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:52
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Sasgrillo posted:Is there any reason in particular why the Empire tech tree is a pile of expensive useless garbage? I think this post is probably a tad unfair. Some of the techs are meh that is true but others are awesome. Playing on hard for example is -5 to leadership but you start with a tech that can give your guys +5 in just 6 turns. All the port techs are great for income and growth, all the state troop techs are good. The reason greats words don't get extra armour is because they already wear full platemail. The -10 cost in the local region is also fairly good if you use it properly. Save yourself 400 gold by queueing a building in Altdorf, then trot your guy across the border to Nuln and save yourself 400 there, then trot across to Kemperbad and save it there too. I will admit I don't actually bother doing this because I'm lazy, but you do appreciate -10% build cost nation wide is super powerful for a free upgrade at level 1 right? The fact that the techs are tied to buildings is probably the most annoying bit of the Empire tech tree to be honest.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:58
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ZearothK posted:For the cheers joy of Games Workshop rules for, say, a Bretonnia Vs Tau match-up. It's 'sheer joy' you thaggoraki. Sasgrillo posted:Is there any reason in particular why the Empire tech tree is a pile of expensive useless garbage? I think the best tech is +10 armour for pistoliers and outriders, narrowly edging out -%5 recruitment cost and upkeep to the same units.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:03
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The brett tech tree is cool, albeit the econ side way underwhelming, except why is their a whole tree buffing the lovely peasant mobs?
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Mar 10, 2017 17:06
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Greatswords do get more armor, it's a different research that the Armory unlocks.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:06
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Its only 5 more but if you picked Gelt that means they are now at +15 armour so its actually quite nice 
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Mar 10, 2017 17:08
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vintagepurple posted:The brett tech tree is cool, albeit the econ side way underwhelming, except why is their a whole tree buffing the lovely peasant mobs? I actually find it bizarre you can't upgrade knights through research. Even though many Empire upgrades may be  at least they can improve their armor and leadership a bit. It is surprising they don't even break it down based on equipment "All cavalry with shields get +5 melee defense" "+10% charge damage on cavalry with lances" etc.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:11
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I never concerned myself with morale/leadership in previous iterations of Total War, but playing Greenskins or Bretonnians quickly changed that. I'll take every scrap of leadership bonuses I can get my hands on.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:12
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Sasgrillo posted:Is there any reason in particular why the Empire tech tree is a pile of expensive useless garbage? Don't think of it as 'oh, I need to build a tier 4 settlement and stables and all this stuff to get some +5 leadership???', think of it as an added freebie on top of building your stable en route to getting demigriffs or whatever. The point is that there's no opportunity costs to anything, you are never giving anything up to get this stuff, and the per-requisites are all things you should get over the course of the campaign. They do add up, bit by bit, making your armies better over time. If you ever run out of things to research you've messed up, and having to pick the less good stuff because you have nothing good to research is basically a soft-failure. Also -10% construction cost is pretty great actually. Walk your guy across the border for that big purchase of buildings and save 1500 gold? Yes please. Especially if you stack them with other building discounts. Combine the architecture tech, castellan engineer, a prime mover wizard, and boom, you're getting all your buildings at 40% off. More if you have some good retinue. Suddenly you are building up your provinces at *double the rate* you'd be doing otherwise. If you don't see how this is a big loving deal then, erm... Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 17:29
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Panfilo posted:I actually find it bizarre you can't upgrade knights through research. I'm pretty sure this is intentional. Bretonnian knights are trying to emulate an idealized historical figure. They believe the more like him they become the more powerful they'll be. Judging from how ridiculous grail knights (and being immune to fatigue) can be, they aren't entirely wrong. Researching technology to improve something that was already perfected (in their eyes) doesn't make any sense. Being firmly stuck in the past is what makes them so different from the Empire. Anemic economic upgrades are the result of the nobility not really giving a poo poo / there not being much you can do to improve a feudal economy that resists industrialization. Notice how much better % gains are for the industry tech.
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Mar 10, 2017 17:42
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Gejnor posted:It was fun when there were hints of them being in the same universe, like that one time Khorne told some uppity khornate gently caress who was boasting to his god that hes not even remotely as cool as Kharne the Betrayer then showed him visions of his murder sprees, prompting the guy to go "Gosh! Thats who i want to be when i grow up.." but i wouldn't want them to actually be the same since it would more or less make the Warhammer world completely pointless. I think I may have posted this before in this very thread, but the Albion campaign for WHFB gave some pretty heavy hints that it shared a universe with 40k - some of the loot gained by various factions were a 1 for 1 substitute for 40k wargear (e.g. a glove that ignored armour and gave the bearer S10 attacks, but they always struck last, aka a Space Marine powerfist).
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Mar 10, 2017 17:52
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Apropos of nothing, the conquer everywhere mod is fun and good. I dont know why I dont turn it on more often.
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Mar 10, 2017 18:17
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The true economic upgrades are from damsels and traits, some of them are really good.
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Mar 10, 2017 18:49
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vintagepurple posted:The brett tech tree is cool, albeit the econ side way underwhelming, except why is their a whole tree buffing the lovely peasant mobs? I think of it less as a tree of upgrades for peasant mobs and more as a general civil/economic tree that has some peasant mob buffs tacked on. Cheaper infrastructure, more gowth, more recruitment slots and more public order are all pretty good by themselves.
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Mar 10, 2017 18:58
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