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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:It was in the same set as Elspeth, Sun's Champion, who was a domineering force for her tenure. Exactly. Its a 1 for 1 answer which destroys. You can't get any more fair than that. I can't fathom the though process that goes into someone thinking this card could be oppressive at all.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:02
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Marketing New Brain posted:Yeah to planeswalker design. . . .is that controversial? They have enough time balancing them as is, downfall just makes you not want to put planeswalkers in your deck, which is bad for business. Most commonly played planeswalkers generate immediate value even if they get Downfalled, so if you're choosing not to run one because your opponent might get a slight mana advantage while you get a 2/2 token that's entirely on you. E: The tension from creatures/planeswalkers and removal for a while has been that the former generate more value than the removal can answer without spending extra cards, so the removal needs to be cheaper than the creature being cast. Throw it too far out of balance in either direction and the game becomes worse for it. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 21:06
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Has a frontier event fired at a scg event? Someone is suggesting only one person has signed up so far at the dallas open.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:15
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Hero's downfall should be reprinted roughly as often as negate, meaning "enough to always be in standard". It's incredibly fair and acts as a catchall answer to retrospectively broken creatures and walkers. I feel the same way about lightning strike and jace's ingenuity, providing reach and card draw to the colors that need it to compete with GBW (or GB, or GW, or WB) midrange value hell
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Mar 11, 2017 21:17
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Sickening posted:Has a frontier event fired at a scg event? Someone is suggesting only one person has signed up so far at the dallas open. When the first one had only ten signups they cancelled the rest at gp vancouver. I wish people would stop making it a thing.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:19
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You get priority in which to activate a planeswalker between playing it and your opponent's first chance to downfall. You are generally 'up' w/r/t boardstate even if your opponent downfalls. It's an incredibly fair card. Dreadbore should come back too.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:20
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The issue is they cant reprint a rare in every 3rd set, so they'll need to tune an uncommon answer to planeswalkers that can be in every other set. But then they've printed a reliable answer to their chase cards which is a "feels bad".
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Mar 11, 2017 21:26
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Balon posted:The issue is they cant reprint a rare in every 3rd set, so they'll need to tune an uncommon answer to planeswalkers that can be in every other set. But then they've printed a reliable answer to their chase cards which is a "feels bad". Heroes downfall being rare was always confusing anyway, it could easily be uncommon and probably should be.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:28
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Balon posted:The issue is they cant reprint a rare in every 3rd set, so they'll need to tune an uncommon answer to planeswalkers that can be in every other set. But then they've printed a reliable answer to their chase cards which is a "feels bad". Maybe the answer is to replace the basic land in the pack with a card reminding everyone not to be a whiny pissbaby then
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Mar 11, 2017 21:28
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Balon posted:The issue is they cant reprint a rare in every 3rd set, so they'll need to tune an uncommon answer to planeswalkers that can be in every other set. But then they've printed a reliable answer to their chase cards which is a "feels bad". Pretty sure dropping standard attendance and the need to ban so hard it's changed the ban schedule is a worse feel-bad.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:28
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TheKingofSprings posted:What is actually fun about Magic? yeah, it's saying "bolt to the face" when the opponent is at 3 life
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Mar 11, 2017 21:29
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Balon posted:The issue is they cant reprint a rare in every 3rd set, so they'll need to tune an uncommon answer to planeswalkers that can be in every other set. But then they've printed a reliable answer to their chase cards which is a "feels bad". Hero's Downfall could be an uncommon without too much stretching as far as the dynamics of the game are concerned (economic greed is another matter). The only real game-logic justification for it being rare is that it interacts with planeswalkers, which I realize is a semi-official rule, but I don't think it justifies making it a rare if that in turn is an obstacle to reprinting it. I don't think it'd be even really a problem in limited since the overwhelming majority of the time it's just going to be Murder, which is fine at uncommon. e: missed Sickening's post, but yeah
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Mar 11, 2017 21:30
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mandatory lesbian posted:"bolt to the face"
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Mar 11, 2017 21:34
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BJPaskoff posted:If Amonkhet really has good cards that dish out -1/-1 counters, that'll take care of the Constrictor problem. Constrictor isn't really a problem in and of itself, its that its a "snowballing" card that you just lose to if you can't immediately remove it, which sucks at 2 mana.
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Mar 11, 2017 21:36
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I'm continually amazed at how people seem to miss or ignore the standard cycle of one month of good and then X-1 months of bad, where X is the number of months until the solved/oppressive deck rotates out
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Mar 11, 2017 21:40
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mandatory lesbian posted:yeah, it's saying "bolt to the face" when the opponent is at 3 life Forgot the casting of snapcaster beforehand
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Mar 11, 2017 22:09
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Pontius Pilate posted:Forgot the casting of snapcaster beforehand all my lands are mountains so i'm not sure how i'm gonna be able to do that
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Mar 11, 2017 22:36
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TheKingofSprings posted:What is actually fun about Magic? Nothing. Nothing is fun about Magic.
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Mar 11, 2017 22:36
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mandatory lesbian posted:all my lands are mountains so i'm not sure how i'm gonna be able to do that Well you see, snapcaster was supposed to be a red card.
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Mar 11, 2017 22:38
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So, everyone knows how Ad Nauseum works. Has anyone tried to build a similar deck using Spoils of the Vault and Lab Maniac?
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Mar 11, 2017 22:41
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AlternateNu posted:So, everyone knows how Ad Nauseum works. Isn't that why Lab Maniac is in the sideboard/maindeck of some Ad Nauseum decks?
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Mar 11, 2017 22:42
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Anyone have any opinions on when I should be purchasing the last 3 Goyfs I need? I can get 3 on preorder for $243($81 each). I don't really care what set, can the price really get lower than that when people start opening packs?
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Mar 11, 2017 22:45
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TheKingofSprings posted:Isn't that why Lab Maniac is in the sideboard/maindeck of some Ad Nauseum decks? It is there as an alternative win con. Spoils either gets you the piece you are missing (Angels Grace, Ad Nauseam, Unlife) or wins the game for you if you already have a maniac in play and it is your upkeep or you have a Serum Visions in hand.
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Mar 11, 2017 22:47
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JerryLee posted:Hero's Downfall could be an uncommon without too much stretching as far as the dynamics of the game are concerned (economic greed is another matter). The only real game-logic justification for it being rare is that it interacts with planeswalkers, which I realize is a semi-official rule, but I don't think it justifies making it a rare if that in turn is an obstacle to reprinting it. Limited isn't the issue, I just think they put themselves into a bind, having the removal spells be stuff like Grasp, Stasis Snare etc, and then stuff like Ruinous Path, having Hero's Downfall is just flat out better than everything else and they generally like to create a removal suite where one card doesn't answer everything relevant at instant speed. I think they are taking steps in the right direction with Unlicensed Disintegration and Fatal Push. Personally I'd like to see them reprint Bolt and Path to Exile in standard but they don't care about the type of environment I think is fun. I also think it is reasonable to not have a lot of instant speed answers to planeswalkers that don't care about loyalty, although I'm apparently alone on that one.
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Mar 11, 2017 22:53
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Obsoletely Fabulous posted:It is there as an alternative win con. Spoils either gets you the piece you are missing (Angels Grace, Ad Nauseam, Unlife) or wins the game for you if you already have a maniac in play and it is your upkeep or you have a Serum Visions in hand. I was just wondering because while the combo can be disrupted a little easier via creature destruction. You'd be able to remove all of the mana ramp out of the normal Ad Nauseam shell in favor of hand disruption and counter back up (or just more card selection) since you're not trying to cast a 4 mana spell + other poo poo the turn you go off. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 11, 2017 22:53
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HotBobaloo posted:Anyone have any opinions on when I should be purchasing the last 3 Goyfs I need? I can get 3 on preorder for $243($81 each). I don't really care what set, can the price really get lower than that when people start opening packs? 1 month after the set is released.
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Mar 11, 2017 23:01
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mandatory lesbian posted:all my lands are mountains so i'm not sure how i'm gonna be able to do that steam vents is a mountain
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Mar 11, 2017 23:09
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AlternateNu posted:I was just wondering because while the combo can be disrupted a little easier via creature destruction. You'd be able to remove all of the mana ramp out of the normal Ad Nauseam shell in favor of hand disruption and counter back up (or just more card selection) since you're not trying to cast a 4 mana spell + other poo poo the turn you go off. It is an option and I've used it in matches where I've had my Lightning Storms/Ad Nauseams stripped from my hand or exiled. Losing the ability to win at instant speed is a huge hit to the deck though and makes your awesome matches a lot worse. Part of the strength of the deck is game 1 the opponent has so many dead cards in their deck that using Lab Maniac as the primary win condition turns on. Game 2/3 they usually remove all their Path to Exiles, Dismembers, etc. and it is a fairly safe option.
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Mar 11, 2017 23:17
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Sickening posted:Heroes downfall being rare was always confusing anyway, it could easily be uncommon and probably should be. I think, with the benefit of hindsight, Downfall at rare was probably the first indication that WotC was moving away from answers being good.
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Mar 11, 2017 23:30
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Boxman posted:I think, with the benefit of hindsight, Downfall at rare was probably the first indication that WotC was moving away from answers being good. Not really. Dreadbore and Abrupt Decay were rare. Kahns had some pretty rough pieces in its charms and commands and Crux of Fate. I think it was BFZ that really lacked good removal and nothing since has had it.
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Mar 11, 2017 23:41
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AlternateNu posted:So, everyone knows how Ad Nauseum works. Guy at my LGS runs a Lab Maniac main and I think has Spoils in the board. I might have that backwards though.
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Mar 11, 2017 23:48
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TheKingofSprings posted:Maybe the answer is to replace the basic land in the pack with a card reminding everyone not to be a whiny pissbaby then
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Mar 12, 2017 01:05
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Balon posted:The issue is they cant reprint a rare in every 3rd set, so they'll need to tune an uncommon answer to planeswalkers that can be in every other set. But then they've printed a reliable answer to their chase cards which is a "feels bad". Banishing Light/Bramblecrush/Duress/Lightning Strike/Squelch. Every color has an answer, they just chose not to put them in loving standard.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:12
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Updated my janky list for azban scales. Servant of the Scale is just a total upgrade in the deck and honestly I forgot the card existed. Being able to add counters on death to any creature is worth slightly harder to cast. Rite of passage is something I forgot was in my updated deck and its a 1 of mainboard. It allows the infinite combo but not something you want sitting in your hand. It also comes out of the board in grindy matchups as a two of. Ranger is out, I just don't want to be casting 4 cmc spells but saving mana for activations or holding up spells. Added another varolz because he is the loving goat. Inspiring call over performed but is something that can just be bad against a lot of decks. Tons of stuff I want to try at the 3 slot that I move in and out each fnm. Managorger Hydra , nissa, bow of nylia, and others. Deck: Abzan Counters    //Lands 4 Blooming Marsh 1 Forest 1 Gavony Township 1 Godless Shrine 2 Marsh Flats 1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood 1 Overgrown Tomb 1 Plains 1 Swamp 1 Temple Garden 4 Verdant Catacombs 4 Windswept Heath //Spells 4 Dromoka's Command 3 Fatal Push 4 Hardened Scales 2 Inspiring Call 1 Rite of Passage //Creatures 4 Hangarback Walker 4 Narnam Renegade 2 Scavenging Ooze 4 Servant of the Scale 2 Varolz, the Scar-Striped 4 Walking Ballista 4 Winding Constrictor //Sideboard 2 Abrupt Decay 1 Fatal Push 3 Fulminator Mage 2 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Lost Legacy 1 Rite of Passage 2 Stony Silence 2 Surgical Extraction  Display deck statistics
Sickening fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Mar 12, 2017 |
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Mar 12, 2017 02:39
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Read the OP and found a lot of helpful resources. But what I didn't find, I'll ask here. I've been out of the game for 10 years or so. I used to really love going to FNM's, pre-releases, and just having a group of chill friends to kick it with and play for fun after classes. I'd like to get back into playing again, but I'm not sure where to start. What's a smart way to jump back into where the game and its rules are today? How do I re-introduce myself into MTG after being away for so long? Any helpful resources out there for something specific like this, or advice from anyone that recently came back into playing?
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Mar 12, 2017 02:50
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Subways Jared posted:Read the OP and found a lot of helpful resources. But what I didn't find, I'll ask here. There's been a couple of key rules changes in that decade: Damage no longer goes on the stack as a pseudo-spell, it's now assigned and then immediately dealt. This means that you can't do the old mogg fanatic trick of block, put damage on the stack, and then sacrifice it. Manaburn doesn't exist any longer. Planeswalkers are a new card type - they're cards you cast that have abilities on them that you can use 1 of, 1 per turn, if you can pay "loyalty" from that walker to use it. Some of them have positive costs to gain loyalty. These can be attacked like a player and damage cards like lightning bolt that say "deal damage to target player" can have their damage redirected to a planeswalker. Other than that, they're pretty much the same. I haven't played Duels of the Planeswalkers 2013, but I've played the previous and they're good for casually learning how to play the game. Not super in-depth, but for $10 each they're fun enough and interesting enough while learning how to play. Here's a link to the demo of 2013: http://store.steampowered.com/app/97330/ There's also a free to play version that I haven't played, called Duels, but based on what I've seen it's more or less an updated version of the above. Here's a link to it: http://store.steampowered.com/app/316010/ Once you're familiar with the rules, find a store nearby and go do a booster draft. This is a format where you draft cards from packs and build your deck out of it, it'll help you build a collection and also meet real life nerds nearby. From there you can meet folks and start figuring out what formats people play in your area, etc. Commander is the most chill of constructed formats (outside of "casual" no rules stuff that folks will play with their friends), and is multiplayer focused. Standard is the cheapest of the constructed formats, and is made up of cards from the most recent 2 years only. It's also a good time to buy into Standard as most of the decks don't have a lot of Zendikar Block cards, which are going to be first to rotate out (which means they're no longer played in Standard and are only playable in older formats, which typically means their value drops). The next set that is releasing, Modern Masters 2017, is not an ideal starting point for a totally lapsed player, despite having a pre-release coming up soon. This is because A) the booster packs are $10 a piece, and B) it's full of powerful and expensive cards , all of which means you're going to spend more money than you normally would to increase your chance of passing someone a $70 card because you didn't know what it was worth and then getting your rear end trounced more quickly because you don't know the wider card base and synergies. The first pre-release you'll want to attend is for Amonkhet, which will be coming out after MM17, as it will be priced normally and will be usable in Standard (and every other format) and that pre-release will be geared towards new and more casual players. I would avoid Magic the Gathering Online until you've determined A) you want to spend money on this game repeatedly and B) you don't want to socialize with the local nerds / can't make it to the local nerd store. It's "cheaper" than IRL magic but it is separate, so if you wanted to dabble in both you're going to spend more money than if you focused on one or the other.
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Mar 12, 2017 03:19
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Subways Jared posted:Read the OP and found a lot of helpful resources. But what I didn't find, I'll ask here. If you were playing ten years ago then I don't think the rules have changed all that much, if at all. The last big rules changes I can remember is that combat damage no longer uses the stack* and some terminology changes**. There's also planeswalker cards that were introduced...about ten years ago I think, which act as pseudo-players when in play. They can use one of a few pre-determined effects each turn, and can be attacked or targeted with damage spells. Do you have any cards from when you used to play? There are formats that let you use older cards (Modern, Legacy, Vintage), or you might be able to sell them if they're worth anything. This is a handy tool to use for pricing, just look at the set symbol on the card- http://mtg.dawnglare.com/?p=viz If you don't have any cards from when you used to play, you can do draft or sealed events where you're given a certain number of booster packs and tasked with making a deck out of those. Pre-releases are good if you're getting back into the game because people aren't as familiar with the cards you use there. I think the next one is late April or May. If you have questions just ask here, it keeps us from bitching at each other too much  *So if you have a creature that you can sacrifice for some ability, if you sac it during combat you either get to use the ability or have it deal damage, not both. You can no longer block a X/2 creature with Mogg Fanatic and kill that creature by blocking it with Fanatic and then saccing it with combat damage on the stack to deal an extra 1 damage. **"Comes into play" is now "enters the battlefield", you "cast" a spell rather than "play" a spell, "remove from the game" is now "exile". Same stuff but cleaner.
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Mar 12, 2017 03:35
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Subways Jared posted:What's a smart way to jump back into where the game and its rules are today? Also two other major rule changes (these might be in the OP but posting here regardless) Legendary rule has changed significantly - your opponent and you both can have a copy of the same legendary permanent on the battlefield at the same time http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/legendary-rule-change-2013-05-23 Vancouver Mulligan - any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1 - http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/new-mulligan-rule-starting-battle-zendikar-prereleases-2015-08-20 There is a fair amount of magic coverage (tournaments, LGS events, people playing magic online) on twitch.tv - might be good for jump starting you back into the game Dehtraen fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Mar 12, 2017 |
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Mar 12, 2017 03:50
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Subways Jared posted:Read the OP and found a lot of helpful resources. But what I didn't find, I'll ask here. What up, same situation for me. Paid $4.50 for force of wills back in the day, 14$ for some taigas. No idea what happened to them. Went to a draft on a whim 1.5 years ago, had a good time so I kept it up. Look up local stores on facebook or whatever and show up for drafts. Bring some dice. Ask the workers and other players what the scene there is like, what other formats are popular, etc. Don't be afraid to shop around, different shops have very different cultures. Figure out what formats interest you then start looking into buying into a deck. The main formats: Draft - A cool and good format. Cheap, accessible and interactive. Not much of a downside except you don't get to have a real deck. I guess it can be hard to find competitive drafts irl but you don't really care about that yet. Standard (type 2) - The cheapest constructed format, not very popular at the moment though. There's a pretty shallow amount of playable decks/cards which makes it easier to learn. At the moment there's only 3 (possibly 2?) top-tier decks. If you find a place with a more casual standard scene though you can build something sweet and just jam some cards. Modern (similar to extended or type 1.5) - The most cool and good constructed format. More expensive (sometimes absurdly so) than standard, but if you buy a deck you can pretty much play it forever, unlike standard where cards rotate. Main downside is a lot of "no fun allowed" cards and matchups. Be ready to tolerate some non-games. If you do a lot of homework you can build a cheap, mostly competitive deck. EDH or Commander (highlander but also mutliplayer and with a bunch of other wackiness) - Ranges from hyper casual "I built a spider deck" to absurdly expensive and absurdly powerful. Easily the most popular constructed format, there's people playing EDH every time I go to a store. The wide card pool lets you play any style of deck you'd like. Downsides are extremely long turns, in-game politics, and out-of-game politics over what is an acceptable power level for your group. I've only played a little EDH but it sort of feels like playing a board game.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:13
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MTGGoldfish and MTGTop8 are good places to look up decks. People might have bitched about netdecking when you got out of the game but there's so much more coverage of this game that everyone is constantly trading ideas around, just find a deck or style of play you like and riff on it. MTGGoldfish also has budget decklists for Standard and Modern if you need a cheap place to start in Constructed, they should be OK at the FNM level.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:21
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