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On topic of the "Wandering Monsters" tables, I may be not be correctly remembering, but I just was reading the DMG a couple of weeks ago and looking up creating encounters, and I believe in it's rules it referenced those tables for what monsters would be relevant for the areas your party is in. I'm not saying it's good, but I am fairly certain it is referenced. Unfortunately I do not have my DMG on me at work to check this quickly. Regardless, it's a dead horse that the DMG rulings on building encounters are pretty trash.
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Mar 9, 2017 20:47
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lifg posted:Which comes back to the idea that the PCs need to offer an *appropriate* bribe. At the right amount, they're streetwise, and will pass unnoticed. Too high, and they're a mark, and the guard will sell that information. A level 0 guard with a 1000gp bribe in his pocket isn't going to go around telling the underworld that the party of 4 6th-level magic users are an easy mark (because a level 0 guard has less than 10hp and a party of wizards has fireball), he's going to get out of town while he can and start a new life somewhere else.
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Mar 9, 2017 20:53
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slap me and kiss me posted:A level 0 guard with a 1000gp bribe in his pocket isn't going to go around telling the underworld that the party of 4 6th-level magic users are an easy mark (because a level 0 guard has less than 10hp and a party of wizards has fireball), he's going to get out of town while he can and start a new life somewhere else. Or he's going to get mugged himself.
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Mar 9, 2017 21:07
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slap me and kiss me posted:A level 0 guard with a 1000gp bribe in his pocket isn't going to go around telling the underworld that the party of 4 6th-level magic users are an easy mark (because a level 0 guard has less than 10hp and a party of wizards has fireball), he's going to get out of town while he can and start a new life somewhere else. Well, you're halfway to an intimidate check at this point, unless everyone in your game world has their class and level displayed over their heads at all times.
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Mar 9, 2017 21:09
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:Or he's going to get mugged himself. Gort posted:Well, you're halfway to an intimidate check at this point, unless everyone in your game world has their class and level displayed over their heads at all times. Exactly, which brings this all back to Arivia's point that it's better to make the players bribe a guard with some accomplishable task than it is the vast fortune that they've collected.
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Mar 9, 2017 21:11
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Thanks for the tips about life quality. I am going to implement a few of these starting next session as they are about to interact with nobility.
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Mar 9, 2017 21:54
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Tie their social standing to their living conditions. If a vagrant who lives in a box told you he killed a Beholder and described its lair in detail, you'd think he was a schizophrenic, not a great hero. I wouldn't bother tying it to rolls. Tie it to the roleplaying/descriptive side of the game. Look like a hobo and you won't get anywhere and everyone will assume that any money you seem to have is either stolen or a scam. You all walk into town covered in mud, wearing tattered clothes, and leading a single burro. You order half a pint of the cheapest beer and ask if you can skeep in the stable. Next day you request an audience with the baron. There's no way that a tattered muddy dude with no money and horse poo in his hair gets to see the baron. The guards laugh at you and if you're lucky they tell you to gently caress off. If you're unlucky, they kick you out of town for being a vagrant. You all ride into town on fancy looking horses, with banners flying, herandry displayed, and your hired musician playing a heroic march. You don't even make it to the inn because the gate guards open with "Good morrow, my lord. Take the second on the left and the castle watch will take care of your horses". Hackmaster does this via explicit rules about honour and fame scores and what makes them change. Wearing fancy clothes helps (fancy clothes are expensive and are "destroyed" if you enter combat in them). Spending big helps. Riding back into town with the marauding troll's head on a pike helps. Hiring a playwright to spread the tale of your deeds helps. But stuff like showing up looking like a bum hurts. Refusing hospitality without good reason hurts. Drinking cheap beer hurts. Once your famous enough, not hiring heralds and bards to spread your story hurts. If you're a genuinely big hero with songs about you and you've received medals and maybe a title or two and are known for showing up and buying the whole pub a round or engaging in friendly drinking contests with the locals, then you can get away with occasionally showing up looking like a hobo. People will get it. Unless you keep doing it, then you end up saying "I'm Gordo The Great, <title list, medal list, list of stuff you've slain and defended> and I need to..." and then everyone bursts out laughing and someone flips you a copper and says "That was a good one, now do one of Joe the Blacksmith".
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Mar 9, 2017 21:57
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The GP cost of bribing a guard isn't an economics thing, it's a DC thing. Is getting into this place an easy, moderate, or hard challenge for them at this level? If it's easy, it costs a handful of whatever the lowest denomination they still bother to pick up is. Moderate? Just enough that they actually have to write down the cost. Hard? However much it takes for them to have to actually think about if it's worth it. Beyond that it's quest level and the price is just an excuse for them to go raid another tomb to pay the guard/do a favour for the guard directly.
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Mar 9, 2017 22:10
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Also, consider the motivations for the guard as well. I mean, if he lets some schlubs into the royal tombs for a handful of gold and they walk out with all of the ceremonial treasures of the royal line, that guard is probably going to get banished/executed for treason. I'd make it a gold cost, plus some kind of persuasion/intimidation check/roleplaying, and then come up with some interesting consequences for whatever they do. It's not a door with a GP cost for a lock, it's a person, and play that up as much as possible.
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Mar 9, 2017 22:27
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Why even assume that you can bribe a guard? Like, it a fantasy trope, I get it, you sidle up to the guardsman and show him a bag full of gold and he stuffs it under his coat and turns his back on you and you get in. Now think about how that scenario plays out in the real world. Try it with a briefcase full of money at Buckingham Palace, or maybe the Pentagon. Hell, try it at your local bank - offer the teller a week's wage to let you back there so you can go through the cash drawers. Or if you don't like the real world as an example, fair enough. So you've just tried to bribe Sam Vimes. Or worse, you've actually bribed one of his coppers and he's found out about it. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 22:35
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AlphaDog posted:Why even assume that you can bribe a guard? Like, it a fantasy trope, I get it, you sidle up to the guardsman and show him a bag full of gold and he stuffs it under his coat and turns his back on you and you get in. You're right. Better seduce him instead.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:18
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Just keep but what abouting and rolling dice until the plan fails and the wizard solves everything with a spell.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:22
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Bar Crow posted:Just keep but what abouting and rolling dice until the plan fails and the wizard solves everything with a spell. Was about to say, just Charm Person and/or Disguise Self past the guard already.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:32
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AlphaDog posted:Now think about how that scenario plays out in the real world. Try it with a briefcase full of money at Buckingham Palace, or maybe the Pentagon. Hell, try it at your local bank - offer the teller a week's wage to let you back there so you can go through the cash drawers. Okay, but those are some of the most secure places on the planet, doofus. I've seen first-hand that you can bribe a state cop in Mexico for 50 bucks. And a federal cop in Russia for 100$. And a Customs agent in Cambodia for 70. ...In India you can get out of a traffic ticket for 7 bucks.
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Mar 9, 2017 23:35
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AlphaDog posted:Why even assume that you can bribe a guard? Like, it a fantasy trope, I get it, you sidle up to the guardsman and show him a bag full of gold and he stuffs it under his coat and turns his back on you and you get in. It's a world building point. In lots of societies bribery of officials is endemic, and that definitely could hold true in the poorly organized pseudo medieval Europe setting that is the default for DnD. So whether bribery is common or not is something to consider. If it is common, is it expected? Formalized? If it is uncommon, what is preventing the majority from taking bribes? Duty and honour, or fear of getting caught? If you're not looking to do that level of worldbuilding, it's probably more fun just to let players bribe somebody if they want to. Just from the improv style "Say yes" perspective, that it is more interesting if you allow stuff to happen than shut it down.
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Mar 10, 2017 00:26
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Undead Hippo posted:It's a world building point. In lots of societies bribery of officials is endemic, and that definitely could hold true in the poorly organized pseudo medieval Europe setting that is the default for DnD. So whether bribery is common or not is something to consider. If it is common, is it expected? Formalized? If it is uncommon, what is preventing the majority from taking bribes? Duty and honour, or fear of getting caught? This. Not all guards are bribable, of course, but you gotta think about why. The question isn't just can you bribe a guard, but what can you bribe a guard to do? Most guards historically are little better than peasants with weapons. They are typically loyal to their master as far as it goes because they get much better lifestyles than the average peasant, but they also are still peasants and don't usually have any money to throw around. Actual knights and such are going to be much harder to bribe because they can already buy whatever they want and are more concerned with their social standing than their pocket book (usually - story considerations notwithstanding). But like if a guard looks the other way because you were caught stealing bread, that's one thing: he gets to make some money and he gets to feel good about letting a poor person eat. If you bribe a guard to let somebody out of jail, or to get an audience you would never be able to get - well, the bribe better reflect the fact that the guard might suddenly be unemployed. Basically it's always okay to let the players try, and honestly, they should try because it's more interesting, but a bribery attempt really ought to ask the question 'how far am I asking this guy to break the law?' since framing the bribe to be as little trouble as possible for the bribed party is the fun strategic element.
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Mar 10, 2017 00:38
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OK, I phrased it poorly. I'll try again. "Why assume that PCs can bribe guards?" is a question you can and should ask. If the answer is "bribery is normal and expected here" then that's fine. Like I said, it's a fantasy trope. Yes, lots of real places work like that. If it's true in your setting then it probably informs a lot of other stuff about the setting too. Try to make it more interesting than "it costs 2 gold to get through the door". Like, it's probably pretty rare to find a place where you can literally just walk up and say "how much for you to look the other way?" to the guard. If that's how it does work, then you should probably think about how people secure their really important stuff, because "hire guards" is obviously not the best way to do it. If the answer is "you can totally get officials to do things they shouldn't, but waving a bag of gold at them isn't going to work" that's great. Lots of real places work like that too. It can make interesting stories as PCs try to figure out how exactly corruption works here. Is it based on favors? On who knows who? On a complicated legal setup that lets you "gift", "invest", or "donate" money, items, services etc as long as you follow the rules? If the answer is "you can't really bribe guards, exactly" that works too. Eg, someone who shows up on a warhorse with a heraldic banner doesn't bribe peasant guardsmen, they say "stand aside" and it just happens. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 01:19
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The D20 roll is supposed to represent luck more than it represents character ability. So this seems like exactly the sort of thing a skill check can handle. Did you get lucky enough for the guard in question to be bribe-able? Better roll for it. Characters who are in tune with local custom and decorum are able to bribe many guards who have enough scruples to turn away someone who crassly jingles some coins. Translate this to "it's a skill check." I'd pick Deception as the appropriate, just so that bribery, fraud, lying under oath, disguise, and all other manner of underhanded deeds fall under the same skill. And maybe, if you've already decided that this is an upstanding town who's guard's don't take bribes and that's too important of a detail to forgo, that D20 roll represents how well previously unseen prep work pays off. "Okay Robin, you know these guards don't take bribes. Not exactly. But they do accept favors from the ruling family in exchange for not asking questions. You rolled pretty well, so if you want to lose 100 gp we can say you put together a pretty convincing disguise as the princess." Unless Robin is a bard. Then Robin has to spend a Charm Person cast.
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Mar 10, 2017 02:14
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Is a Gazer an appropriate Pact of the Chain pet for a great old one warlock?
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Mar 10, 2017 07:35
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Gazers are tiny Beholders made of the nightmares of mad witches. They're almost made for Great Old One Chainlocks.
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Mar 10, 2017 09:04
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I've lost my mind and made Kenku the pre-eminent political class of my homebrew setting. They're masters of filibustering and parliamentary maneuvering and tend to ensure that nothing ever gets accomplished, and this makes them invaluable allies in the pockets of the human and dwarven economic hegemony. When President Ffff-tahng's agenda makes paupers of us all, don't blame me. I voted for Kickpow. I just love kenku so drat much.
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Mar 10, 2017 11:26
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I've lost my mind and made Kenku the pre-eminent political class of my homebrew setting. They're masters of filibustering and parliamentary maneuvering and tend to ensure that nothing ever gets accomplished, and this makes them invaluable allies in the pockets of the human and dwarven economic hegemony. When President Ffff-tahng's agenda makes paupers of us all, don't blame me. I voted for Kickpow. A political class that can only repeat the things it's been told by corporate backers and news media, which can have no original thoughts and so simply perpetuates tired political tropes and economic policies long since proven wrong? This is supposed to be a fantasy game! But no poo poo that legit owns.
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Mar 10, 2017 13:54
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Am I imagining things or is the fourth level of spells for the cleric not that interesting? Banish is nice but the other stuff seems a bit situational. Plus if you are a life cleric you get two of the good spells automatically.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:19
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Paramemetic posted:A political class that can only repeat the things it's been told by corporate backers and news media, which can have no original thoughts and so simply perpetuates tired political tropes and economic policies long since proven wrong? My hope is that while the setting taken as a whole seems a bit heavy handed, players are getting bits and pieces of it for flavor while focusing on their adventure. So it's less "Well then, this seems to be a criticism of money controlling politics" and more "I really didn't expect the Senator to be a drat Kenku. Do we trust him?"
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Mar 10, 2017 18:44
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I've reached level 5 as a swashbuckler rogue in my group's Storm King Thunder campaign and I'm feeling real outclassed in combat by basically everyone else. What's the best bang for my buck in terms of multiclassing? I was thinking Warlock, but I'm honestly no good at the min-maxing thing. (We rolled stats using the GM's insanely generous method so my Dex is at 20 and everything else is at 14, so I'm not beholden to a particular stat combo)
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Mar 10, 2017 20:52
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Hell yeah, my Dorf Fighter got a Cloak of Displacement last night. Gives disadvantage to all attack rolls on me until I get hit. Then it resets on my next turn. Now to find some +2 plate and that +4 shield.
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Mar 10, 2017 21:07
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BinaryDoubts posted:I've reached level 5 as a swashbuckler rogue in my group's Storm King Thunder campaign and I'm feeling real outclassed in combat by basically everyone else. What's the best bang for my buck in terms of multiclassing? I was thinking Warlock, but I'm honestly no good at the min-maxing thing. (We rolled stats using the GM's insanely generous method so my Dex is at 20 and everything else is at 14, so I'm not beholden to a particular stat combo) Warlock is good, so is Paladin. I would honestly just ask the DM if he can hook you up with some class appropriate magic items or charms to bring you up to everybody else's level. EDIT: Unless this is super-serious SKT no-fool'n official.
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Mar 10, 2017 21:20
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Razorwired posted:Gazers are tiny Beholders made of the nightmares of mad witches. They're almost made for Great Old One Chainlocks. I meant more to ask if it's in line with the power of the other options in the PHB.
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Mar 10, 2017 21:23
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BinaryDoubts posted:I've reached level 5 as a swashbuckler rogue in my group's Storm King Thunder campaign and I'm feeling real outclassed in combat by basically everyone else. What's the best bang for my buck in terms of multiclassing? I was thinking Warlock, but I'm honestly no good at the min-maxing thing. (We rolled stats using the GM's insanely generous method so my Dex is at 20 and everything else is at 14, so I'm not beholden to a particular stat combo) I was going to play a Swashbuckler in a group soon. What aren't you liking about it?
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Mar 10, 2017 22:44
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I was going to play a Swashbuckler in a group soon. What aren't you liking about it? I think my problems stem more from a structural issue than something inherently bad about the rogue - we have extremely short sessions (1-2 hours) with only 1 combat (MAYBE two if we're going long), which means everyone can fire off their limited-use mega-damage powers while I'm stuck doing 4d6 (+1d6 if my second attack lands) damage turn after turn. I get the impression that over a longer session, with more combat, my damage would be pretty respectable since sneak attack is obviously unlimited, whereas the others will run out of their flashy attacks. As is, though, I'm pretty seriously outclassed by our Paladin and our Sorceror (and heck, even our Monk) who can blow poo poo away with abandon. All that aside, Swashbuckler does seem like the best rogue archetype for a more fighty style, and I enjoy the no-opportunity-attacks ability they get.
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Mar 11, 2017 02:21
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That makes sense. I'm running a warlock in another one right now and until we reach 5 I'm the only guy in the party who gives a drat about short rests.
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Mar 11, 2017 02:26
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Well you automatically get a bit better at level 5. Plus Swashbucklers are pretty much built for duels and taking on one foe. After all you no longer need allies or advantage to make sneak attacks on single enemies.
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Mar 11, 2017 03:22
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The fewer combats you have, the more powerful novas are, and only classes with daily abilities can nova. 5e, of course, is balanced under the assumption of eight fights a day. Welcome to reason like #8932 as to why spellcasters are better then non-spellcasters.
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Mar 11, 2017 04:05
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Playing one or two hours doesn't have to mean a whole bunch in game day passed. Do you get long rests at the end of every session no matter what happened at the end of last session?
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Mar 11, 2017 05:40
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Drawing back upon the Shadowfell discussion three pages back, I've started a campaign at 4th level where the Characters will be jumping back and forth between the Material and Shadowfell. With the antagonists being the Shadar-Kai (the 3.5e version with the souls nailed to their arms) and the occasional Shadowdancer and Nocturmancer, later Shades and Spectres. Reading the Forgotten Realms wiki and this thread the Shadowfell is, if im reading this right, a sort of limbo plane where people go when they die for a while before being sent off to wherever they will eventually reside. Either Elysium or the Shores of Despond, or wherever. So if the Antagonists are from the plane of shadow and have control over the Shadowfell and the transition points between the Material, I'm thinking I can have the PCs encounter foes they slay on the Material, in the Shadowfell and potentially be recurring villians that cheat death and need to be killed in the Shadowfell, only to return as Shades. I think that'll amp the tension as they keep encountering the same foes, just getting more and more twisted and tenacious. How does that sound?
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Mar 11, 2017 08:46
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BinaryDoubts posted:I think my problems stem more from a structural issue than something inherently bad about the rogue - we have extremely short sessions (1-2 hours) with only 1 combat (MAYBE two if we're going long), which means everyone can fire off their limited-use mega-damage powers while I'm stuck doing 4d6 (+1d6 if my second attack lands) damage turn after turn. I get the impression that over a longer session, with more combat, my damage would be pretty respectable since sneak attack is obviously unlimited, whereas the others will run out of their flashy attacks. As is, though, I'm pretty seriously outclassed by our Paladin and our Sorceror (and heck, even our Monk) who can blow poo poo away with abandon. Everyone resetting everything each session will throw what little balance the game has way out of whack. Resting should be based on game time not session time.
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Mar 11, 2017 11:27
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ProfessorCirno posted:The fewer combats you have, the more powerful novas are, and only classes with daily abilities can nova. This has definitely been an issue running AL modules that are designed to take 2-4 hours. Casters can cruise through the first few fights with lower spell slots, blow their wad on the endboss, then stroll back to town. Eight fights per day makes sense in an extended dungeon crawl but not for resolving most above ground problems that also involve diplomacy or bluffing.
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Mar 11, 2017 13:39
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Kommando posted:Drawing back upon the Shadowfell discussion three pages back, I've started a campaign at 4th level where the Characters will be jumping back and forth between the Material and Shadowfell. With the antagonists being the Shadar-Kai (the 3.5e version with the souls nailed to their arms) and the occasional Shadowdancer and Nocturmancer, later Shades and Spectres. I think as long as the fights and ways the villains come at the party keep mixing up it shouldn't get stale. Also might want to avoid too many people with that plot point, or it could be a ,"oh great we killed him this time see you later dude for your 2nd coming"
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Mar 12, 2017 01:44
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Mr Beens posted:Everyone resetting everything each session will throw what little balance the game has way out of whack. The easiest way to make your D&D game play out completely differently is to gently caress with the refresh rate of abilities by changing how much stuff is supposed to be done between refreshes. This has been true forever. Older editions you sort of figured out what the PCs could handle per "day" by trial and error. Newer versions give you the numbers, not that they're necessarily right, but at least it's something to work from. It's kinda funny how many people are surprised by this, but if you're doing 2 fights per refresh (day, whatever) your game's gonna look pretty different from a game where they're doing the 6-8 fights per refresh that the rulebook mentions, and that game's gonna look pretty different from one where you never know if you're going to have to do 2 or 20 fights before you get a break.
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Mar 12, 2017 03:02
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I've been putting sheets together for a few characters I might run -- this one game has a lot of people not sure what they want to pick so I figured I'd come ready to fill in any gaps. (I know you don't have to, but I like to find a niche that isn't taken so I have time to shine.) Planning out a level 3 sorcerer, I feel super weak on paper. Warlocks outblast you, every other full caster has more variety, etc. and it looks like Storm Sorcerer in particular doesn't really take off til that level 6 feature. The thought of knowing so few spells is really weird to me and SPs on a long rest makes them kind of a one-shot oddity in early levels. When do sorcs start feeling consistently strong?
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Mar 12, 2017 03:10
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