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Almost everyone is racist, ok, maybe. If your racism is contained within your thoughts no one cares. Don't act on it. What you do matters more than what you think.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:31
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Well I'm not racist, but...
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Mar 12, 2017 02:17
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I'm not racist. No but.
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Mar 12, 2017 02:59
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I'm racist about butts.
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Mar 12, 2017 03:26
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Hyperlynx posted:I think that crime, criminals, and prisoners are a symptom of failures of society at large rather than evidence of evil. I feel that people commit crimes, most of the time, because society failed them in some way - they didn't have the same opportunities for education or employment, they're mentally ill and didn't receive treatment, their view of the world is out of alignment with reality for some other reason. I feel that they deserve sympathy, training, education, actual rehabilitation. Punishment doesn't work as a deterrent, retribution is not justice, and it doesn't undo the damage done by the crime. Solitary confinement is torture. The death penalty is an abomination. Killing a murderer isn't going to bring their victim back. Crime doesn't exist in a vacuum, committed by moustache-twirling Evildoers (and, by God do I hate that trope in fiction). All humans are capable of horrible acts, and the only reason some do is because that was, for them, what they thought the optimal choice in that situation. If so, we've got to fix society so that it isn't the optimal choice. Which is a hell of a lot harder than whack-a-mole'ing people away behind bars for decades. I think you're underestimating the issues of relapse and recidivism, at least wrt violent crime which is the one I'm concerned with (and I bet most people are too) since I don't think many people care about petty crooks or think that they should have to pass through a miserable, entirely punitive process that ultimately warps them. Anyway, once someone has shown that they will commit certain crimes under certain circumstances we know that is a pattern that will likely re-emerge especially with certain classes of crimes that show profound tendencies for recurrence. Life long criminals exist and those assholes that commit egregious crimes often have a long history of prior offenses with a trend toward escalation. Retribution isn't justice but it's surely rational to isolate very violent individuals from the public at large, perhaps indefinitely, depending on their behavior. We should definitely control ongoing risk to the public even if punishing a murderer won't bring back their last victim. I'd even argue that if it were possible to determine for certain that someone did commit a heinous crime and that this person would not benefit from rehabilitation that they should receive the death penalty w/o reservation. That's not abomination imuo but it's not really a realistic situation either. As nice as rehabilitation/restorative justice sounds as a substitute for punishment in theory, it usually fails under the best of circumstances with violent criminals. Though Norway's 5 star prison system has a tiny recidivism rate of around 20% overall iirc the majority its inmates consist of petty thieves and the like, with auto thefts leading the way, but of the smaller percentage that committed violent crimes the odds of recidivism reaches something insane like 95%. That's under ideal circumstances of commitment to 'normalcy' (barless facilities, large open areas, regular amenities), camaraderie between guards & prisoners, cognitive counseling, access to great recreational facilities, vocational programs to create job skills, art programs etc, etc, etc. When someone begins to commit the most violent of crimes there seems to be no going back and I doubt someone like Anders Breivik will ever see the outside again even though he's within Norway's system. I could understand your feelings if it they were just directed at lesser criminals; one of the stupidest moves bar none in American history was that 'get tough on crime' poo poo from the 1970s which ended up totally changing the course of the American prison system. Prior to then the American system included as much an emphasis on rehabilitation as any other developed nation with resources to develop occupational skills, counseling to resolve psychological problems (especially substance abuse and aggression) and other programs to support reintegration into society. Since the decision to get tough on crime there's been an loving explosion in prison statistics which I bet most posters here are aware of. That was direct consequence of a shift to a purely punitive system for any and all criminals, even small timers, the near-removal of rehabilitation services, the near-removal of psychological screening, etc, etc, etc. Supposedly like one-fifth of American prisoners are actually just mentally ill and would be a better fit for institutionalization than being put in the same prison yard as incarcerated gang members. IIRC a 20 year study indicated the overall return to prison rate went to over 80% since those changes, when under conditions of some rehabilitation there had been only a ~60% rate for return to prison. Considering how many people go through that prison system every year a change of just 20% would be a big deal - something like 150,000 people would now leave prison never to go back again each and every year. Better programs (like Norway's) could shrink that rate further but nah, it's apparently better to let that tire fire keep going as it is.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:31
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doverhog posted:Nudity not being a big deal is progressive. Watch the shower scene in Starship Troopers for proof, or come to a communal sauna in Finland. Jumping back a minute to address this but American poo poo can't normalize nudity, it can only feature it. Intent's the big difference here. Shoving a teenage girl's tits in my face and acting like they're only doing it because I'm too stupid to pay attention otherwise is leagues away a scene with a middle-aged lady breastfeeding or a couple of regular ol' joes in a sauna. I don't really note or remember the latter two because it's incidental and normalized. I remember the first one out of irritation though, since it's communicating "Look, idiot! It's tits! Oh, you're a woman? Well I don't care about your viewership. If you're not fuckable, you're worthless." And then it's doubly irritating when the guys defending tits because "censorship is bad" lose their poo poo when they see a penis. I'm all for normalizing nudity because featuring it can't seem to be done without insulting my intelligence or sex.
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Mar 12, 2017 08:02
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doverhog posted:Almost everyone is racist, ok, maybe. If your racism is contained within your thoughts no one cares. Don't act on it. What you do matters more than what you think. Most people are subconsciously racist and don't have racist thoughts, which is a lot harder to fight. It's not so much what you think, although you're right about it being what you do. It's societal and often relegated to the subconscious, which is why you'll get MAGA-hatted Trump voters going "Heavens no, I love hispanic people!" Speaking of racism, is there a reason "latinx" seems to be the preferred term at least among very progressive people these days? I get removing the gendering of it but my UPO is we have hispanic and latin american as ungendered english versions of the word without making up a silly portmanteau. Do those word have a bad connotation, honest question? Also, related to fried foods, I laugh when people get all huffy about how disgusting x unhealthy food item is. It happens on SA a lot, in almost any subforum if you mention food, especially in relation to health, you'll get people just chiming in about meal prep and slow cookers and so easy to be healthy, plus McDonalds makes me have the shits for a week! Aioli is disgusting! I eat my pancakes dry! This even happens if you're talking about like, obesity's correlation with poverty, or food deserts. Some goon gonna ask why everyone doesn't meal prep some slow cooker bean-n-pea chili slop for 10c a meal. Cuz that's definitely tastier than a McChicken. Eat reasonably but jeez, you can have lovely and great fried foods and fatty foods and sweet foods just like with any other method of prep. I used to be a wok cook, which if you don't know means frying everything and it's hilarious how people would think of our food as this healthy, reasonable choice. It wasn't really unhealthy by any means but literally your whole dish was submerged in oil, veggies and all. Also oils have different tastes that affect the dish, guy who thinks all fried food tastes like "oil". Lol if you're doing a pad thai in olive oil or whatever. I also worked in a mexican kitchen and people loved the "sautéed"fajita veggies. What actually happened is they got submerged in vegetable grease for 20 seconds. That's fine, it tastes good, they're still low-calories delicious veggies. Basically you're broken if you can't enjoy unhealthy food taste-wise. Even crap like McDonald's, the poo poo tastes good. That's why it's popular. That's why McDonald's exists even in places like loving inner-city Strasbourg where every third business is serving delicious, traditional, well-made food in a beautiful building. Liking crap is natural. Related, imo Dominos and Pizza Hut are better than 90% of local pizzerias. Actual restaurants that specialize in pizza? Delicious and incomparable. The corner greasy-spoon pizzeria that does delivery and is totally better than that pizza hut crap? Typically no. I associate the local Gino's Slices type pizza place with oversized, floppy pies that drip grease all over you and I'm rarely proven wrong. Plus the chains are going crazy with options. If the pizza is going to be mediocre anyway, hell yeah I'll take pretzel crust or buffalo saucing or whatever. Hell, Pizza Pizza the canadian chain, when I lived there last year, had the option of doing a sweet chili sauce instead of the tomato. Surprisingly good, and far better than Bubba's Pizza, the local place which people only frequented for the poutine. EDIT: poutine is delicious, traditional or topped with almost anything, and if you disagree then go die EDIT 2: Agreed that lala land sucked rear end. Felt more like a love letter from beautiful, privileged, talented Hollywood stars and crew to themselves. vintagepurple has a new favorite as of 08:45 on Mar 12, 2017 |
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Mar 12, 2017 08:37
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McDonald's sure smells good but every time I try the burger it's disappointing. The fries are awesome but that's it. And aioli/mayo really is disgusting. So is ranch.
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Mar 12, 2017 08:50
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Das Boo posted:Jumping back a minute to address this but American poo poo can't normalize nudity, it can only feature it. loving right.
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Mar 12, 2017 10:02
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doverhog posted:Almost everyone is racist, ok, maybe. If your racism is contained within your thoughts no one cares. Don't act on it. What you do matters more than what you think. If you live in a de facto segregated gated community where you are sheltered from black people, and therefore don't have to "act" in contexts where open racism is thought to manifest itself, and you are privileged to an extent that you don't even consider the impact of your political choices, your anti-tax / anti-big government stances, your company's activities etc. on minorities, does what is in your head really not matter?
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Mar 12, 2017 10:19
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Das Boo posted:Jumping back a minute to address this but American poo poo can't normalize nudity, it can only feature it. Intent's the big difference here. Shoving a teenage girl's tits in my face and acting like they're only doing it because I'm too stupid to pay attention otherwise is leagues away a scene with a middle-aged lady breastfeeding or a couple of regular ol' joes in a sauna. I don't really note or remember the latter two because it's incidental and normalized. I remember the first one out of irritation though, since it's communicating "Look, idiot! It's tits! Oh, you're a woman? Well I don't care about your viewership. If you're not fuckable, you're worthless." Thank you, this is better put than I could manage.
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Mar 12, 2017 10:20
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Yeah I think that is what bugs me. It's not that I care about nudity, but it often feels really shoehorned in, in this really patronizing way. HBO is a frustrating offender because I like a lot of their shows and they always do that and it just makes them feel trashier. Not that I'm kidding myself about GOT being trashy in general I know it is, but I still don't want to see swathes of gratuitous nudity when I'm watching a show with my friends or incredibly prude family.
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Mar 12, 2017 10:47
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I'd rather see gratuitous tits that plot-relevant heads being crushed. There's way too much violence in media.
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Mar 12, 2017 10:55
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Well Game of Thrones has both.
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Mar 12, 2017 11:06
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If there is one thing I have learned from cable TV it's that the human head is about as durable as a cantaloupe. Educational
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Mar 12, 2017 11:15
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veni veni veni posted:If there is one thing I have learned from cable TV it's that the human head is about as durable as a cantaloupe. Educational the dinkiest of throwing knives will cause instant death
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Mar 12, 2017 11:30
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veni veni veni posted:If there is one thing I have learned from cable TV it's that the human head is about as durable as a cantaloupe. Educational According to the gritty and realistic show The Walking Dead, once you die your bones immediately turn into tissue paper. This is actually canon information within its astonishingly naturalistic universe.
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Mar 12, 2017 11:54
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It's true, I was cooking tonight and the knife slipped and sliced my arm right off!
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Mar 12, 2017 11:56
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steinrokkan posted:According to the gritty and realistic show The Walking Dead, once you die your bones immediately turn into tissue paper. This is actually canon information within its astonishingly naturalistic universe. This is one of the things that made me stop watching. They're killing zombies left and right with a loving pen to the head now.
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Mar 12, 2017 12:36
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starkebn posted:This is one of the things that made me stop watching. They're killing zombies left and right with a loving pen to the head now. Zombie fiction is at its heart just power fantasy. Doesn't matter how much tactical realism they adhere to, it's all the same garbage really.
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Mar 12, 2017 16:10
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Maybe not unpopular but the knife to the head thing they all do in that show is the worst drat part of it. It doesn't even apply to the rule of cool, it's stupid as gently caress. Machetes or baseball bats or frying pans or like anything else would be way cooler.
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Mar 12, 2017 17:39
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vintagepurple posted:Speaking of racism, is there a reason "latinx" seems to be the preferred term at least among very progressive people these days? I get removing the gendering of it but my UPO is we have hispanic and latin american as ungendered english versions of the word without making up a silly portmanteau. Do those word have a bad connotation, honest question? Generally, "Latino" is an ethnonym that describes individuals in the US whose ancestry is from Latin America and is different from "Hispanic," which is an ethnonym than includes people of Spanish (i.e. from Spain) descent. "Latin American" would have some undesirable features.
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Mar 12, 2017 17:42
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Mu Zeta posted:They did subvert expectations once when they showed a grandma's saggy tits. Just added HBO and my hand to my package.
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Mar 12, 2017 17:55
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hard counter posted:I think you're underestimating the issues of relapse and recidivism, at least wrt violent crime which is the one I'm concerned with (and I bet most people are too) since I don't think many people care about petty crooks or think that they should have to pass through a miserable, entirely punitive process that ultimately warps them. Anyway, once someone has shown that they will commit certain crimes under certain circumstances we know that is a pattern that will likely re-emerge especially with certain classes of crimes that show profound tendencies for recurrence. Life long criminals exist and those assholes that commit egregious crimes often have a long history of prior offenses with a trend toward escalation. Retribution isn't justice but it's surely rational to isolate very violent individuals from the public at large, perhaps indefinitely, depending on their behavior. We should definitely control ongoing risk to the public even if punishing a murderer won't bring back their last victim. I'd even argue that if it were possible to determine for certain that someone did commit a heinous crime and that this person would not benefit from rehabilitation that they should receive the death penalty w/o reservation. That's not abomination imuo but it's not really a realistic situation either. Even if they cannot be rehabilitated, there's the question of what leads people to violent crime in the first place. I maintain that there's something wrong with society if it produces violent criminals in any significant number.
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Mar 12, 2017 20:18
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While I don't think there'd be a plausible explanation for something like someone stabbing their naked mother 229 times anyway people do need to own up to their decisions; issues like poverty, for example, do correlate with violence but it doesn't cause it - there are numerous people from among the rich who commit vile acts just as there are an overwhelming majority of non-criminals counted among those below the poverty line. To me the main thing separating people from all else is that we're a mixture of experiences, biology and free will/sentience, with the last giving us special value. Someone who, say. captures people and tortures them for fun over a period of weeks until those people expire from exhaustion made a number of very firm decisions of their own free will, decisions they should be held fully accountable for. To argue that society/biology/upbringing was actually responsible for those events is insane imho, it implies that this person is really some kind of mindless robot. I can't imagine any other way of explaining how someone has so little influence over their life that they couldn't avoid torturing random people if they tried. What do I care if a mindless machine is broken like that anyway, just lock it away so it can't hurt others or just turn it off. I can understand someone's decision to burglarize a stranger's home or whatever to make ends meet or like use illegal substances for escapism (a borderline joke offense in many cases anyway imuo) so I think those sorts of folks would be good candidates for restorative justice but there are also senseless crimes I can't parse. IMUO it's way too absolute to say something like I think that crime, criminals, and prisoners are a symptom of failures of society at large rather than evidence of evil.
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Mar 12, 2017 22:26
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I think people have a right to feel vengeful personally. I wouldn't dream of telling poor wee Mark Tildesley's parents off for saying they wouldn't be satisfied until Sidney Cooke was at the end of a rope (as I'm sorry to say I am aware of more than one person who I am pretty sure would do that). Of course, at the same time, I don't think that can be the basis of a justice system.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:01
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hard counter posted:Someone who, say. captures people and tortures them for fun over a period of weeks until those people expire from exhaustion made a number of very firm decisions of their own free will, decisions they should be held fully accountable for. Besides, I think folks like that are mentally ill. I don't think any well-adjusted person in possession of all their marbles grows up to torture people to death out of nowhere. Yes, people aren't robots shaped entirely by their environment, but I don't accept these events happen out of nowhere, entirely in a vacuum, and that they could not be interdicted and handled before they blossom into violence. In an ideal world, we'd pick up on kids developing those tendencies and be able to help them. Perhaps in the extreme cases, when a person just cannot be rehabilitated, containing them forever is the right course of action. I still don't think punishment actually helps. Yes, emotionally, it makes sense that people should have to "face the consequences of their actions", but if punishment isn't going to rehabilitate them or deter others then it's not actually achieving anything. But hey. This is the unpopular opinion thread, and I'm happy to agree to disagree.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:13
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I'm a steadfast leftist, but Obama was not a good president, and a lot of the crap that has happened politically is the result of him shaking up how politics are perceived and covered.
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Mar 13, 2017 02:02
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Pick posted:I'm a steadfast leftist, but Obama was not a good president, and a lot of the crap that has happened politically is the result of him shaking up how politics are perceived and covered. If you're a steadfast leftist that's a consensus opinion
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Mar 13, 2017 02:11
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Hyperlynx posted:But hey. This is the unpopular opinion thread, and I'm happy to agree to disagree. That's a fair take, I just like discussing things. While I see my own opinion as ultimately fair on the subject, I respect contrary takes too. Someone who works in social services/rehabilitation is probably better off thinking there's always going to be some way of reaching a violent offender and treating the underlying issues (as long as they're still making realistic judgements about someone's progress) than if they just interpreted the data as proving some people can't be treated and then giving up. It's a complicated thing because it seems like a huge percentage do slip into recidivism, there's hardly any sympathy for violent offenders anyway - some would argue a victim's loved ones deserve state counseling more than the offender - and there's always budget & feasibility problems with trying to improve the system. I'd definitely rather have petty crooks see any improvements first tho. Henchman of Santa posted:If you're a steadfast leftist that's a consensus opinion There is kind of a split over how much Bush was responsible for Obama's issues tho, whether Obama himself was a bad president or if he was just a president during bad times.
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Mar 13, 2017 04:17
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E: no, screw it, we don't need another political derail
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Mar 13, 2017 04:43
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Digirat posted:It's true, I was cooking tonight and the knife slipped and sliced my arm right off! There should be a TWD spinoff that takes place way before the zombie apocalypse and it's just normal people dealing with having bones that are about as strong as a carrot. Oh god Dave bonked his head on the door frame and his brain fell out!
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Mar 13, 2017 06:04
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Wheat Loaf posted:I think people have a right to feel vengeful personally. I wouldn't dream of telling poor wee Mark Tildesley's parents off for saying they wouldn't be satisfied until Sidney Cooke was at the end of a rope (as I'm sorry to say I am aware of more than one person who I am pretty sure would do that). Of course, at the same time, I don't think that can be the basis of a justice system. The entire basis of the liberal justice system is arguably to prevent this sort of thing (as well as property issues) deteriorating into blood feuds by introducing a dispassionate formal arbiter.
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Mar 13, 2017 08:25
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steinrokkan posted:The entire basis of the liberal justice system is arguably to prevent this sort of thing (as well as property issues) deteriorating into blood feuds by introducing a dispassionate formal arbiter. Sure, absolutely. You've got to quit that state of nature, after all.
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Mar 13, 2017 09:17
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obama was a terrible president, and was just as much a butcher as bush was (and every president preceding them)
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Mar 13, 2017 11:24
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I regret that we'll never get to see the excuses Sanders's supporters would have made for him after he ordered his first drone strike.
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Mar 13, 2017 11:41
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Wheat Loaf posted:I regret that we'll never get to see the excuses Sanders's supporters would have made for him after he ordered his first drone strike. The same as every other president has gotten, "He inherited that problem."
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Mar 13, 2017 13:11
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Wheat Loaf posted:I regret that we'll never get to see the excuses Sanders's supporters would have made for him after he ordered his first drone strike. Especially since he was apparently so easy to control when it got down to the wire (though I still would have voted for him if the primaries went differently)
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Mar 13, 2017 13:14
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My unpopular opinion is that every government kills people and that the selection of drone targets is pretty above board as far as that goes
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Mar 13, 2017 14:21
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zh1 posted:obama was a terrible president, and was just as much a butcher as bush was (and every president preceding them) Obama will be remembered as the man who, through his ramping up of the pace at which executive powers have been expanding, and through fighting against greater government transparency, wrote a blank cheque for the incoming Republican administration to do as they please in all policy areas with severely limited checks and balances. This popular tweet sums it up real well: https://twitter.com/cat_beltane/status/797139642076237824
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Mar 13, 2017 14:42
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