|
WrightOfWay posted:Tracton has really bad 4 move slot syndrome. It really wants Ice Fang for Landorus-T, Fire Fang for Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor and Drill Run for Heatran and only has one spare moveslot. And no matter what it runs it will always be walled by Hippowdon and Skarmory. That's the problem though, It's a pokemon so strong, it's not a matter of 'oh x or y or z pokemon can stop it', it's that you need to explicitly counter it like excadrill. It's a pokemon that would define the game and would be talked about as a thing that exists and is powerful, not like dodrio where it's like "why does this guy even exist? what weird gimmicks would we be able to exploit to even give this guy a fighting chance?"
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:35 |
|
|
most of the reason it's notable is due to the fact that it exists in a fangame where presumably the creator wanted to make it 'hard' yet just hands a goddamn monster to the player for practically free
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 08:57
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:most of the reason it's notable is due to the fact that it exists in a fangame where presumably the creator wanted to make it 'hard' yet just hands a goddamn monster to the player for practically free You have to grind up 9999 coins, which does take a good while to do.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 09:12
|
|
|
Forer posted:That's the problem though, It's a pokemon so strong, it's not a matter of 'oh x or y or z pokemon can stop it', it's that you need to explicitly counter it like excadrill. It's a pokemon that would define the game and would be talked about as a thing that exists and is powerful, not like dodrio where it's like "why does this guy even exist? what weird gimmicks would we be able to exploit to even give this guy a fighting chance?" dodrio was a pretty good mon in gen 1, it is fast and had a good attack
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 09:15
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:dodrio was a pretty good mon in gen 1, it is fast and had a good attack Yeah, I'm not terribly concerned about Dodrio's place. It's not as solid as it used to be but it's still a solid mon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 10:10
|
|
|
Materant posted:Yeah, I'm not terribly concerned about Dodrio's place. It's not as solid as it used to be but it's still a solid mon. Dodrio got some huge buffs in Sun/Moon, in the form of +10 base speed, Jump Kick, and Knock off. Ol' Dodzy is really good.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 11:47
|
|
|
This is why I hesitated on giving a specific pokemon name, because I knew whatever pokemon I listed from changes in SM did people would be like "yeah that pokemon is good!" Point is it's like Hydreigon in BW. When you're trying to setup a team you're not thinking of every single pokemon in the universe you could have to fight, you're thinking of the big name overpowered dudes and figuring out how your group is going to have an answer to it. Don't got something to deal with Excadrill? Sorry you miiiight have some problems. MEGAWEAPON's not a question of if your opponent is going to use it, it's how to stop it when it appears.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 13:47
|
|
|
a friend of mine doodled something
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 16:03
|
|
|
Forer posted:MEGAWEAPON's not a question of if your opponent is going to use it, it's how to stop it when it appears. "A fast and/or adequately tanky pokemon with Earthquake or Brick Break". Dragon/Steel is an amazing defensive combination, but being weak to ground and fighting still - two of the most common offensive types out there - doesn't do it favors. The tricks, then, are finding something that can take a STAB'd Dragon Claw/Iron Head without trouble, and who is strong enough to ideally OHKO or 2HKO it. Not helping matters is that Steel natively resists both its STABs, and it doesn't really have good options to deal with Steel at all, at least in its level up moves (and assuming that I heard right that it can't TM Earthquake). Even if it could, Skarmory would be a brick wall for it. What's it gonna do, HP Fire off a base-50 Special Attack?  That's not the only one, but it's the most obvious. (Of course, that's assuming Skarmory is in the game. For all I know, in Uranium, MEGAWEAPON could potentially have no hard counters because of the way the game's pokedex isn't sure if it wants to have normal 'mon in it or not.)
KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Mar 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 16:06
|
|
|
KataraniSword posted:"A fast and/or adequately tanky pokemon with Earthquake or Brick Break". Dragon/Steel is an amazing defensive combination, but being weak to ground and fighting still - two of the most common offensive types out there - doesn't do it favors. The tricks, then, are finding something that can take a STAB'd Dragon Claw/Iron Head without trouble, and who is strong enough to ideally OHKO or 2HKO it. Not helping matters is that Steel natively resists both its STABs, and it doesn't really have good options to deal with Steel at all, at least in its level up moves (and assuming that I heard right that it can't TM Earthquake). A reminder that it can either use Shift Gear on its first turn or pack Speed Boost and outspeed anything that would have a higher base speed, so it has to have the right typing to survive a (potentially boosted) hit first. Not to mention it can still just spam Iron Head and potentially get a win off of flinch spam. Lastly, no Earthquake, but it has Drill Run, so it can just go first and potentially get an OHKO off of a neutral crit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
Forer posted:This is why I hesitated on giving a specific pokemon name, because I knew whatever pokemon I listed from changes in SM did people would be like "yeah that pokemon is good!" now you've got it KataraniSword posted:Even if it could, Skarmory would be a brick wall for it. What's it gonna do, HP Fire off a base-50 Special Attack? does skarmory have any way of hitting it tho? also why exactly are we treating this game like it has a competitive scene
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 17:11
|
|
|
Unknown Quantity posted:A reminder that it can either use Shift Gear on its first turn or pack Speed Boost and outspeed anything that would have a higher base speed, so it has to have the right typing to survive a (potentially boosted) hit first. Not to mention it can still just spam Iron Head and potentially get a win off of flinch spam. Lastly, no Earthquake, but it has Drill Run, so it can just go first and potentially get an OHKO off of a neutral crit. Skarmory has Sturdy (unless you really want Keen Eye or Weak Armor, I guess), so you're not OHKOing it. Now the only thing Skarmory can realistically do to it is Whirlwind it away, so it's still not a real counter, but eh. Aegislash seems like a fairly good counter though, given it resists many of the moves MEGAWEAPON is likely to be running, has King's Shield to threaten usage of all those contact moves on top of that, and Sacred Sword alongside its massive 150 ATK to threaten the Steel side of MEGAWEAPON. Speed Boost isn't even terribly useful in that case, since King's Shield has priority and anything else will still be hitting that monstrous 150 DEF before Aegislash stance changes. I agree that the competitive environment talk is getting a bit silly though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 17:31
|
|
|
Man, if you guys are freaking out this much over Tracton, I can't wait until I get my Inflagetah.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 17:40
|
|
|
Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Man, if you guys are freaking out this much over Tracton, I can't wait until I get my Inflagetah. Every time I saw that name I read it as "Inflategah" and was deeply concerned that things would get even more  than usual for a Pokemon fangame
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 17:51
|
|
|
Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Man, if you guys are freaking out this much over Tracton, I can't wait until I get my Inflagetah. i can't parse this name, and i'm not sure you're not just pulling one over on me
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:i can't parse this name, and i'm not sure you're not just pulling one over on me it's a real name and the pokemon it's attached to is equally as dumb for various reasons
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 17:53
|
|
|
Inflagetah sounds straight out of Pokémon Quartz, wherein the villains wanted to inflate the sun to make electric Pokémon stronger.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 18:07
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:i can't parse this name, and i'm not sure you're not just pulling one over on me Taking a complete stab in the dark and assuming a base level of competence, I'd guess Inflagetah is a mash-up of Inflammation, Conflagration, and Cheetah, but that's probably just me projecting because a Fire Cheetah with access to Flame Charge is a Pokemon design that seems logical/workable. From what we've seen of Uranium in this LP, that's probably assuming too much. I bet it's off-putting in a decidedly stupid manner (i.e. a phlegm based motorcycle, or something involving the state of Utah)
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 18:16
|
|
|
inflame was my first thought too, the getah definitely is throwing me cheetah sounds plausible so sure im expecting fire cheetah now and will be terribly disappointed when its like, another mash-up of two animals like the cat owl
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 18:26
|
|
|
Maybe it's pronounced "in-fluh-gay-tuh" and it's one of these.
megane fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 18:39
|
|
|
SpruceZeus posted:a friend of mine doodled something now to make a s sprie and replace it
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 19:22
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:it's a real name and the pokemon it's attached to is equally as dumb for various reasons I just checked it on the wiki and Jesus Christ what was the guy who made this game thinking. And that's just the sprite. Everything else is also bad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
Inflatable Geta
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
megane posted:Maybe it's pronounced "in-fluh-gay-tuh" and it's one of these. i changed my mind, i want this
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 21:12
|
|
|
KataraniSword posted:"A fast and/or adequately tanky pokemon with Earthquake or Brick Break". Dragon/Steel is an amazing defensive combination, but being weak to ground and fighting still - two of the most common offensive types out there - doesn't do it favors. The tricks, then, are finding something that can take a STAB'd Dragon Claw/Iron Head without trouble, and who is strong enough to ideally OHKO or 2HKO it. Not helping matters is that Steel natively resists both its STABs, and it doesn't really have good options to deal with Steel at all, at least in its level up moves (and assuming that I heard right that it can't TM Earthquake). It picks up the elemental fangs, Outrage, Crunch, and Drill Run from move tutors, hence the gently caress this poo poo edit to my moveset post.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 21:27
|
|
|
Mister Olympus posted:Inflatable Geta  
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 22:05
|
|
|
SpruceZeus posted:a friend of mine doodled something This is actually pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
It teminds me of Battle Network for some reason, and the circular...thing design reminds me of the navi crests. TRUKDRGON.EXE Fake e: oh yeah the starforce plesiosaur.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:It teminds me of Battle Network for some reason, and the circular...thing design reminds me of the navi crests. Plesio Surf? That's a bit of a stretch.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 00:31
|
|
|
she told me she used pictures of turtles as reference, particularly snapping turtles, and also incorporated the 'thumb' attachment some backhoes have into the design of the jaw i think its cool. the animal aspects make it look less like just a toy backhoe with eyes or whatever and get the dragon aspect of it across better. SpruceZeus fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Mar 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
Yknow as much as people like to freak out over Tracton, I think it's really as threatening as it is because of where it's placed in the game. It has a great set of abilities and typing, but I'm not wholly convinced it'd be great competitively. oh wait it has Swords Dance? oh wait it has Drill Run instead of Earthquake but it still gets Swords Dance? ...well I guess if you want to run Swords Dance you're walled by Skarmory unless you forgo Drill Run for Fire Fang, at which point you're walled by Heatran. But those are two things. Two things that you're not going to be running in a casual play-through of a game more than likely. I don't much care for Tracton.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 04:27
|
|
|
Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Man, if you guys are freaking out this much over Tracton, I can't wait until I get my Inflagetah. Really, you're excited about something that loses to anything it can't ohko off a decent but not stellar attack stat? Bonus points for being <insert Gen 1 filler here> but bigger numbers. As far as I can tell you switch in a bulky water on basically anything it can do and laugh. It has an electric attack but not a very good one so you're really only scaring Gyarados. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Mar 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 04:41
|
|
|
SpruceZeus posted:a friend of mine doodled something Holy crap, that just pushed it from "stupid yet awesome" to just plain awesome. Where the hell was this when I was a kid?!
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
Gilgamesh255 posted:Holy crap, that just pushed it from "stupid yet awesome" to just plain awesome. Working for Dr. Robotnik, I believe. Am I the only person who thinks that design is less "Pokemon" and more "Badnik from Sonic the Hedgehog"? For all I know, something like it really did appear in, like, Sonic Advance or Rush or something, it'd be right at home in a construction site-themed zone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 05:17
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:also why exactly are we treating this game like it has a competitive scene This game is its own competitive scene. There are a ton of Pokemon you have to plan for (and you'd better have at least 5 of them on your own team by the end of the game.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 05:41
|
|
|
StupendousMan posted:This game is its own competitive scene. There are a ton of Pokemon you have to plan for (and you'd better have at least 5 of them on your own team by the end of the game.) Yeah, just quoting the OP again. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
The game is designed to be played by people who would minmax for the competitive scene. Though there's still some design decisions that make absolutely no sense.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 06:02
|
|
.png)
|
I would argue that "the game is designed" is false just going from what we've seen. I don't think any thought process went into balancing or really game design beyond a five year olds "That would be so cool"
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 11:23
|
|
|
I will say, something that fan games still struggle with, and which I try to talk to many creators about (And fail because they don't get it) is that you should design your fan game with the mindset that you are still making a game. Yes, it's 99% unlikely that someone is playing your fangame if they are not already familiar with the series. But you should still design it as if you were, because as it turns out, designing it as if everyone is the same as you tends to make the game very stiff and garbage. Yeah sure, you find your dumb in jokes funny, or you find something really cool, but sometimes you just need to think about what it is you're doing and if it would fly if you tried to sell it. That's the other mind set, make it as IF you were going to sell it, even if you aren't. The common response is "Yeah but this is a fan game only the hardcores are playing it anyway." The worst part is these people are typically surrounded by sycophants to whom the response is "It's just a fan game, why do you care? Why should any effort be put in? Why are you being scrutinizing?" And I don't get that mindset. Who wants to just be told "Yeah, looks good." And not receive any proper feedback?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 12:01
|
|
|
it's rather up to the creator to choose who his target audience is. if he wants to design for himself and a bunch of sycophants, that's his business and hopefully they enjoy themselves.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 12:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:35 |
|
|
homeless hungry plz help posted:Yknow as much as people like to freak out over Tracton, I think it's really as threatening as it is because of where it's placed in the game. It has a great set of abilities and typing, but I'm not wholly convinced it'd be great competitively. How does Skarmory threaten it meaningfully? It's immune to toxic and totally willing to spam stat ups until it gets strong enough to beat up Skarmory through the defenses. Am I just not up to date on Skarmory sets and I'm missing that Skarmory learns Seismic Toss or something to win a damage race? E: Wait does it just run it out of PP with Roost?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2017 12:53
|
|
