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so is the actual communist not sufficiently anti-establishment enough
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Mar 11, 2017 00:31
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Badger of Basra posted:so is the actual communist not sufficiently anti-establishment enough The communist party has spent the past decade or so burning all it's anti-establishment cred in the hopes of becoming a more viable coalition partner for parties like PS, who in turn spent the past few years burning their "left leaning but not too left" cred to become a standard "Socialist in name only" party.
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Mar 11, 2017 17:00
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PvdD? JFC. Ill probably vote D66 or Groenlinks. Fight me. But gentle, I need to be able to vote wednesday
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Mar 11, 2017 21:25
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Thatim posted:PvdD? JFC. D66? Let's vote for Rutte's favorite partner, what can go wrong.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:31
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Haven't followed france at all, but lol if you didn't already know what that tweet pointed out
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Mar 12, 2017 01:11
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gonna have a hearty larf if the fascism in europe is killed by fiscally left policy, considering the debacle of a quarrel us yank leftists are having
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Mar 12, 2017 01:13
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9-Volt Assault posted:D66? Let's vote for Rutte's favorite partner, what can go wrong. Yea thats why it will probably be GL
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Mar 12, 2017 09:27
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Fiction posted:The whole mess with Ukraine started because NATO was putting heavy pressure on Ukraine to join and was also funding neo-Nazis to help overthrow the pro-Russia government there. mmmm yuss that's that RTnews rite there
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Mar 12, 2017 10:29
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I doubt NATO even could organise such a thing. Or anything other than war actually.
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Mar 12, 2017 11:32
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So #FascistNetherlands is trending on twitter and it owns
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Mar 12, 2017 11:52
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Yea, i love the irony
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Mar 12, 2017 12:12
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dutch nazis: the original gulenists?
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Mar 12, 2017 12:13
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 Vladislav C. Shitpostski's Gay Hitler vs Orthodox USSR, from the Guggenheim's special exhibit 'Things Fiction is Stupid Enough to Actually Believe'
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Mar 12, 2017 12:55
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Fallen Hamprince posted:mmmm yuss that's that RTnews rite there That is what happened. Sorry your brain is broken.
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Mar 12, 2017 15:29
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Fiction posted:That is what happened. Sorry your brain is broken. Lol
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Mar 12, 2017 15:30
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Ukraine definitely didn't elect the Party of Regions in 2010 and Euromaidan definitely wasn't bolstered by neo Nazis waving pro-Stepan Bandera flags in every photo of the demonstrations. John McCain definitely wasn't photographed hanging with the literal nazis in Svoboda. I'm hamprince and the CIA is good
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Mar 12, 2017 15:33
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Anything that might put the US in a negative light and Russia as not the source of all the world's problems hurts my liberal brain.
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Mar 12, 2017 15:34
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You realize that the Russian media under Putin cannot be trusted right? Just like the RWM under Trump cannot be trusted right now. The Ukraine uprising was definitely real and spontaneous against an elected official that flirted with the EU then suddenly took a turn towards Russia. You could at most blame the West for not intervening in the process and reinstating an elected official, but that as a viewpoint is pretty stupid.
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Mar 12, 2017 15:38
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lol @ arguing about objective reality in 2017
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Mar 12, 2017 15:39
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Namarrgon posted:You realize that the Russian media under Putin cannot be trusted right? Just like the RWM under Trump cannot be trusted right now. I'm sure it was a real uprising since there's weird demographics regionally in Ukraine- now that Russia has basically annexed Crimea and donbass that takes the historically pro Russian segments of the electorate out of the picture and it makes sense that the rest would want to stay with the EU and by extension, NATO. That doesn't negate the existence of the Azov Battalion nor does it mean we just sat on our hands and didn't interfere with our number one geopolitical adversary during a crisis on their border.
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Mar 12, 2017 15:44
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Let's look away from other topics for the coming week and focus on the Dutch election! That is very near. After say, Friday, we can go back to bitching about Le Pen. This coming Wednesday, Dutch citizens will go out to vote for the composition of Dutch parliament ("Tweede Kamer", literally "Second Chamber" or "Second Room"). This is the most important of Dutch elections and determines the political landscape and government, possibly for the next 4 years. General Structure of the election process Parliament is made up of 150 seats. Seats are divided proportionally based on number of votes. So if a party gets 10% of the votes, they get 15/150 seats. Easy enough. There is no minimum threshold and 1- or 2-seat parties are somewhat normal. No party will get a majority (76 seats) on their own that is necessary to push legislature, so Dutch governments are made up of coalitions. Parties will negotiate with each other until a coalition is formed that together make up at least 76 seats. These coalition parties will then carve up the cabinet posts into senior ministers ("minister") and junior ministers ("staatssecretarissen", literally "state secretary") who all together make up the executive branch of government. Voting itself is simple, it is one round where you vote on an individual in a political party. In practice however you would rarely discuss invidiuals you vote for and the only thing that matters is what party you vote for. No second rounds, no odd voting structures. Why should we care? The Netherlands is tiny and unimportant With around 17 million citizens, the Netherlands is ranked #8 of EU countries by population. Map size is deceiving, and the Netherlands has about double the population of Austria and triple the population of Denmark. Not a major player, but far from insignificant. Economicall, the Netherlands is ranked #6 by GDP, you could say first of the 'secondary economies' after the EU big boys (in order Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain). Consider all the drama about Turkish entry into the EU, how it is a major geopolitical (NATO) ally to the West etc etc? Remember that the Dutch GDP is higher than that of Turkey. Dutch politics is not going to make or break the EU, but it is significant. The Parties This year there is an unusual high number of parties that will participate in the elections, with 28 parties participating. I will not mention them all, because easily 25% of these is not going to get any seat and another good chunk may get only 1 or 2 seats. Of these, 11 parties currently hold seats in parliament, so those sound like a good place to start. I will mention the parties in the order they appear on the ballot. I am not going to pretend to be unbiased. This is also not an in-depth analysis of their viewpoints, but an idea to give to all non-Dutch about what the hell the Dutchies are talking about. VVD  VVD boss Mark Rutte Centre-right conservative liberals. Taxes bad, privatization good. Job creators good, poor people just need to work harder. Currently the largest party with 41 seats in parliament and the party of Prime-Minister Mark Rutte. The VVD is about as far financially right-wing as it goes and a great choice if you believe that that government budget should be run like a household and that austerity is a good idea. Currently the main axis of government. Proponents: "I like reaping the rewards of the sweat of my brow" Opponents: "Neoliberal scum" PvdA  PvdA boss Lodewijk Asscher The other goverment party of the last 4 years, on paper the PvdA is the Labour Party with 38 seats. In practice them seem to have had an internal civil war and have happily marched along to VVD's tune during the last government cycle. Is expected to be one of the big losers this election. Unclear exactly what their platform is, as their plans on paper are so drastically different from what they have actually been doing for the past 4 years. They have lost a lot of credibility as they seem to be actively arguing against things that they just did. This may have had to do with the internal civil war. Proponents: "Standing up for the working man" Opponents: "Also neoliberal scum" PVV  PVV boss Geert Wilders Sigh. Dutch Trump and Dutch Le Pen rolled in one. Populist right-wing party aiming their guns at brown people. I think we all know the drill by now. PVV supporters who try to hide their racism will argue that the non-racial policy proposals of the PVV are actually very left-wing and while this is true on paper, context tells us that the PVV would gladly piss on those, set them on fire and throw them under the bus if it means they could exile a single brown person. Currently 15 seats, but is doing really well in the polls. Sigh. Proponents: "Making the Netherlands Great Again" Opponents: "Fascists" SP  SP boss Emile Roemer Probably the most radical left party. And you can tell that they are true believers too; parliament members donate their income to the party and receive a median wage in return. Incidentally this has also made it by far the richest party too. Not that this has helped them very far. As far as I know they've never been part of the government. They have a relatively stable 10% support base on which they have been cruising along and also have 15 seats in parliament right now. You can always rely on the SP to vote against privitization and tax cuts and all those neoliberal things, but you can also rely on them being overruled by the rest. Proponents: "Power to the people" Opponents: "Incompetent communists" CDA  CDA boss Sybrand Buma Christian centrists. Not that it matters, because the CDA will happily sell its soul to join any coalition and will then bend its view to support the other parties. I guess a CDA vote is for when you are too much of a coward to vote blank. Has had quite a lot of government experience but lost bigly during the last election and currently sits at 13 seats. Proponents: "Maybe the truth is in the middle on a lot of real issues" Opponents: "lol cda" D66  D66 boss Alexander Pechtold Traditionally the party for the higher educated. D66 has a history of fluctuating between being a major and a minor party. Currently it sits more towards the minor side with 12 seats. I find them interesting as they have often not been afraid to take less popular (with the general population) standpoints, such as being pro-EU. On the one hand they have very left-leaning ideas such as increasing spending on sustainable energy and education, on the other hand they voted in favour of gutting the student financial aid system. Proponents: "I am socially liberal but fiscally conservative" Opponents: "class traitors" CU  CU boss It should probably tell you something that I had to look up who leads this party. With 5 seats, the CU is the largest of the two parties that can be described as 'very Christian'. Pro-life, anti gay marriage and all those fun things, but very rarely aggressive about it. Proponents: "I am a good little Christian" Opponents: "CU? That's the extremely Christian one that is not utterly bonkers right? I always confuse the two." GroenLinks  GroenLinks boss Jesse Klaver (aka "the Jessiah") While currently a solid minor party at 4 points, they have recently gotten a new frontrunner, and the Obama-esque (not my words) Jesse Klaver is expected to make GroenLinks Proponents: "With Jesse Klaver we feel that GroenLinks can actually accomplish something this time around" Opponents: "SP-lite edition" SGP  SGP boss Kees van der Staaij The other 'very Christian' party. Die-hard fundamentalist that don't even allow women to vote participate in their party. My grandfather believes the world is 6000 years old and votes for them. They are currently at an unprecedented 3 seats (up from 2) and if nothing else they are a testament that the Netherlands is one of the most atheistic countries in the world. Proponents: "Keep holy the Sunday as the lord intended" Opponents: "are they serious?" PvdD  PvdD boss Marianne Thieme "Party for the Animals" in favour of better treatment of animals. With only 2 seats, it could have been a division of one of the major parties, as the PvdD seems to be a one-issue party. It is impossible to tell though, as they have never been relevant. Proponents: "We love animals!" Opponents: "I think other issues are more important" 50Plus  50Plus boss Henk Krol If the PvdD is the one-issue party for animal rights, then 50Plus is the one-issue (ish) party in favour for pensioners' interest such as the pension starting age. A very new party, their current 2 seats in parliament are expected to possibly increase 5-fold. Like other developed nations, the Netherlands also has the problem of an aging population and it turns out that the pyramid scheme that is the pension system was based on an assumption of infinite growth. Silly us. Proponents: " Opponents: "I don't really want to subsidize the generation that caused all of our current problems" Results On the 15th of March voting stations will be open for most of the day. Exit polls are a thing, but definite results are usually not in until deep into the night of the 15th to the 16th. Namarrgon has issued a correction as of 08:19 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 12, 2017 19:09
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ty fantastic post
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Mar 12, 2017 19:14
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also to a netherlander eye does wilders look 'normal'? becaue he kinda looks like an alien to me
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Mar 12, 2017 19:18
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As much as I despise him on a personal and political level he looks more or less normal to me. Maybe a bit like a bleach-blonde try-hard, but not otherwise remarkable.
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Mar 12, 2017 19:26
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So I know Dutch polls are poo poo but support among parties is so divided that the coalition is guaranteed to be some sort of Rutte-led clusterfuck VVD-D66-CDA-mumble-mumble coalition, right?
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Mar 12, 2017 21:44
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whats the most offensive term for someone from the netherlands?
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Mar 12, 2017 21:46
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Fiction posted:So I know Dutch polls are poo poo but support among parties is so divided that the coalition is guaranteed to be some sort of Rutte-led clusterfuck VVD-D66-CDA-mumble-mumble coalition, right? I'd say there are two likely possibilities. They depend on whether the party's promise not to form a coalition with Geert Wilders' PVV is true or not. These are politicians after all. If it was a campaign lie, I'd say we'll see a VVD-PVV-X coalition. If it was not a campaign lie, I'd see it go in your direction. I'd also expect that government to fall within 2 years. Bonus comedy option; GroenLinks becomes a massive party and we get a left-led GroenLinks-SP-X-Y cabinet. This is unlikely.
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Mar 12, 2017 21:50
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Baloogan posted:whats the most offensive term for someone from the netherlands? Calling him/her a Belgian
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Mar 12, 2017 21:55
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Baloogan posted:whats the most offensive term for someone from the netherlands? mhm. . . Swamp German?
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Mar 12, 2017 21:55
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Namarrgon posted:Bonus comedy option; GroenLinks becomes a massive party and we get a left-led GroenLinks-SP-X-Y cabinet. This is unlikely. This is my dream but Klaver would probably just morph into post-election Justin Trudeau and it'd basically be like D66 had won the plurality
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Mar 12, 2017 22:07
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Fiction posted:Ukraine definitely didn't elect the Party of Regions in 2010 and Euromaidan definitely wasn't bolstered by neo Nazis waving pro-Stepan Bandera flags in every photo of the demonstrations. John McCain definitely wasn't photographed hanging with the literal nazis in Svoboda. I'm hamprince and the CIA is good  hmm yes, u see the twelve star flag is a known symbol of ukrainian homonazism, as documented by independent news organization sputnik.ru
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Mar 13, 2017 00:22
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keep in mind that russia's argument here is that extreme nationalists funded by the cia staged a coup in order to join the EU, supranational entity beloved of far-right organizations all over europe. but bootlickers like fiction will contort themselves however necessary to suck russia's dick from back because gently caress u dad
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Mar 13, 2017 00:25
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Fallen Hamprince posted:keep in mind that russia's argument here is that extreme nationalists funded by the cia staged a coup in order to join the EU, supranational entity beloved of far-right organizations all over europe. but bootlickers like fiction will contort themselves however necessary to suck russia's dick from back because gently caress u dad i've seen the pictures dude, and the timeline is pretty clear. sorry we did a bad thing again. we do it a lot
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Mar 13, 2017 00:57
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They literally put an amendment in the 2015 Congress budget that passed the House unanimously to prevent our funds helping Ukraine from going to the neo-Nazis in the Azov Battallion, but it mysteriously disappeared from the budget before it was passed. I'm sure the US military would never support extreme right wingers to achieve its goals though, we've never done that before
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Mar 13, 2017 01:02
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Petro Poroshenko is insanely bad as was victor yanukovich well hope that helps e: also this whole thing is angela merkel's fault for granting Ukraine some kind of incredibly stupid associate NATO member status despite it being run by crooks
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Mar 13, 2017 01:06
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PYF human right that the us-backed ukrainian fascists rescinded on may 21 2015 http://rada.gov.ua/en/news/News/110107.html quote:the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine has ruled: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CCPR.aspx http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Convention_ENG.pdf quote:ARTICLE 5
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Mar 13, 2017 01:17
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lets hear it for the plucky freedom fighters of novorussia, fighting off the gay euronazis with a motor rifle brigadethat fell of the back of a truck
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Mar 13, 2017 01:28
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fiction, draped in red string, patiently explaining how the cia did the bronze age collapse
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Mar 13, 2017 01:29
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Fallen Hamprince posted:fiction, draped in red string, patiently explaining how the cia did the bronze age collapse
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Mar 13, 2017 01:31
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sorry u guys just aren't woke enough to admit that the cia partnered with the reverse vampires to do darfur. looks like u've got some reading to do
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Mar 13, 2017 01:39
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