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https://twitter.com/baetog_/status/841299832895504386
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Mar 13, 2017 15:53
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We looked at GP Utrecht and then completely ignored our two other Grand Prix with the worst top 8s. We also confirmed that players like to be forced out of decks that have game strategies that don't revolve around keeping mana open for the fear of losing to any board state on turn 4 or running decks that lack red or black.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:59
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DangerDongs posted:We looked at GP Utrecht and then completely ignored our two other Grand Prix with the worst top 8s. We also confirmed that players like to be forced out of decks that have game strategies that don't revolve around keeping mana open for the fear of losing to any board state on turn 4 or running decks that lack red or black. They happened literally 2 days ago, there's no way they were ever going to factor them into this B&R. Guardian will go next B&R unless there's a big meta shift post-Amonkhet
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Mar 13, 2017 16:02
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DangerDongs posted:We looked at GP Utrecht and then completely ignored our two other Grand Prix with the worst top 8s. We also confirmed that players like to be forced out of decks that have game strategies that don't revolve around keeping mana open for the fear of losing to any board state on turn 4 or running decks that lack red or black. It is funny that all things point to the stated reason for optimism being a blip on the radar.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:02
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Burying their heads in the sand because someone played Dynavolt Tower at a GP in the Netherlands is not a good look.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:03
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I feel like the joker in that one movie when the people in the boats didn't kill each other.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:04
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So the next banning schedule will be 5 weeks after pro tour Amohkhet?
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Mar 13, 2017 16:06
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They should just stop trying to make artifact sets, they always gently caress it up.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:06
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Cactrot posted:They should just stop trying to make artifact sets, they always gently caress it up. Or print appropriate hate for it. I feel like Smash to Smithereens didn't matter for poo poo when Origins was in standard, but it would be extremely welcome right now.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:07
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DangerDongs posted:So the next banning schedule will be 5 weeks after pro tour Amohkhet? April 24th, after Amonkhet prerelease weekend.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:07
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Lunsku posted:April 24th, after Amonkhet prerelease weekend. I can live with that. The cat really needs to go though.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:10
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mfcrocker posted:They happened literally 2 days ago, there's no way they were ever going to factor them into this B&R. In my ideal world, they would have all sat down and agreed on "Look guys, let's just say that if the GP this weekend is as bad as we all fear, we ban the Cat. Alright, see everyone on Monday." This is probably impossible because bans have to go through a lot of corporate red tape, but it would be nice.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:16
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BJPaskoff posted:In my ideal world, they would have all sat down and agreed on "Look guys, let's just say that if the GP this weekend is as bad as we all fear, we ban the Cat. Alright, see everyone on Monday." This is probably impossible because bans have to go through a lot of corporate red tape, but it would be nice. If yesterday's GPs would have skewed their decision, I absolutely think that's what they should do (or something to that effect). They added an extra B&R date for this very reason. This fucks the rest of the season (again, assuming the last GPs would've changed their minds).
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Mar 13, 2017 16:21
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BJPaskoff posted:In my ideal world, they would have all sat down and agreed on "Look guys, let's just say that if the GP this weekend is as bad as we all fear, we ban the Cat. Alright, see everyone on Monday." This is probably impossible because bans have to go through a lot of corporate red tape, but it would be nice. Yea their scheduling is really dumb. Make your decisions and write up a press release on Friday. Then make your announcement first thing on Monday, ignoring the massive amount of new information you received in the meantime. Why even add a new B&R announcement if you're not going to use the new data you've recieved? Waiting one more day would make a lot of sense to me, a person who's not running a million dollar product into the ground. The line about it still being a 3 deck format is pretty funny considering pros have been predicting the death of G/B for a few weeks and the GPs proved it pretty conclusively. little munchkin fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 16:24
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My meta skews pretty aggro and midrange so I don't see a lot of SSG out in the wild, but I do see it pop up in a number of decklists online. How bad is it in practice?
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Mar 13, 2017 16:31
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Andrew Cuneo on the no-bans: "The updates to the Standard banned list are here, and there are no changes. This is a bit of surprise because this Standard format has pretty much been solved and there is a real lack of diversity. The WotC announcement claims there is a “Big Three” set of top decks, but that isn’t really true. Black-Green is clearly not a top tier deck. The two viable decks are Mardu Vehicles and Copycat. Does this mean that changes were needed? Not necessarily. This standard format is already starting to wind down. There aren’t many major events left before the release of Amonkhet on April 28. The banned list will receive another update on April 24. The developers at WotC already know what cards will be in that set. Maybe there will be some new answers to the Copycat combo. Maybe there will be bannings at that point to knock the Mardu Vehicles deck down a notch. There’s two potential bannings that I think make sense. The most obvious is Felidar Guardian. While the combo hasn’t proven to be truly oppressive, it does power one of the top decks and it’s existence hugely warps the other decks that show up in the format. While it was interesting to have around for one season, there’s no way it can stay legal for the full two years that the Standard rotation schedule would dictate. Eventually it will need to go, and the release of Amonkhet is probably the right moment. The other card that deserves strong consideration is Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. The point of this banning would be to weaken the Mardu Vehicles deck. An aggressive start followed by a Gideon is just too hard to come back from. It’s also one of the driving forces behind the die roll being so important in Standard. If you don’t have a strong board presence when Gideon comes down, it is just too hard to kill. It’s possible there may be new and better answers to Planeswalkers in Amonkhet in which case it may not need to be banned. At this point we’ll just have to wait and see."
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Mar 13, 2017 16:33
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C-Euro posted:My meta skews pretty aggro and midrange so I don't see a lot of SSG out in the wild, but I do see it pop up in a number of decklists online. How bad is it in practice? Fast mana is always the thing that shows up when a broken deck appears in modern. SSG is a big part of what enables Ad Nauseum right now. I don't think it needs to go, fast mana is what keeps bad combo decks around. e: Angry Grimace posted:Andrew Cuneo on the no-bans: I also don't get the hate-boner for Gideon. He's just a good value card, the reason Vehicles is so good is because it can hit with a 4/4 flyer that comes down on turn 2 that can't be answered in an efficient manner outside of Fatal Push. ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 16:34
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C-Euro posted:My meta skews pretty aggro and midrange so I don't see a lot of SSG out in the wild, but I do see it pop up in a number of decklists online. How bad is it in practice? Ad Nauseam is the only top tier deck that uses it, but it also shows up in a handful of inconsistent combo decks that can win on turn one or two sometimes, and some prison decks looking to jam a quick Blood Moon or Chalice. Most of the decks that run it aren't oppressive, but the argument is that nobody has ever exiled a SSG and had a fun, interactive game of magic result from it.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:39
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C-Euro posted:My meta skews pretty aggro and midrange so I don't see a lot of SSG out in the wild, but I do see it pop up in a number of decklists online. How bad is it in practice? I actually didn't notice SSG until this post. I personally don't have any issues with SSG or any fast mana with the current card pool. Yes it does lead to decks are close to unbeatable a small percent of the time while being clunky and inconsistent most of the time. I also feel like those decks should be allowed to exist.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:41
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Lunsku posted:April 24th, after Amonkhet prerelease weekend. I can live with that. The cat really needs to go though.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:46
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No bans means lets play Legacy instead of the dead format, standard: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3813309
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Mar 13, 2017 16:49
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KillarySwank posted:I do appreciate them actually taking the time to mention/look at Vintage. ....and completely ignoring how bad it currently is.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:56
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Gotcha, thanks. I mostly see SSG in various flavors of Scapeshift/Breach where I think it's overkill so I'm just "eh". We have one dude here who sometimes brings Ad Nauseum but I don't see it much.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:56
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little munchkin posted:Ad Nauseam is the only top tier deck that uses it, but it also shows up in a handful of inconsistent combo decks that can win on turn one or two sometimes, and some prison decks looking to jam a quick Blood Moon or Chalice. It's a bit like Chrome Mox - nobody plays SSG in a deck that's up to anything good for the format.
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Mar 13, 2017 17:05
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Aw, Emmy's still banned.
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Mar 13, 2017 17:09
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ThePeavstenator posted:Fast mana is always the thing that shows up when a broken deck appears in modern. SSG is a big part of what enables Ad Nauseum right now. Regarding Gideon, it's not a hate boner even as stated. Gideon isn't too good and in a better standard format with good control answers he wouldn't be oppressive. In my opinion the problem is the only good answer for him is negate (which if you're holding up you're losing to Mardu's board) and aggro creatures (which despite what WotC thinks is being metagamed out by Mardu). Mardu isn't even too good in my opinion. It's just that there's no way to answer the diversity of its threats (creatures, vehicles, planeswalkers). So we're stuck in this hell of arguing about banning threats that aren't even broken because WotC decided five years ago that lightning bolt, wrath, efficient counterspells, hero's downfall, etc. are too good.
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Mar 13, 2017 17:15
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So the new B&R announcement got me thinking.... here's a modern brew Props to Sickening for the idea: HARDifacts 4 Arcbound Worker 4 Hangarback Walker 4 Walking Ballista 4 Arcbound Ravager 3 Steel Overseer 4 Winding Constrictor 4 Hardened Scales 1 Bow of Nylea 4 Fatal Push 2 Abrupt Decay 1 Maelstrom Pulse 3 Thoughtsieze 2 inquisition of Kozilek 2 Ruins of Oran Rief 1 Llanowar Reborn 1 Academy Ruins 4 Verdant Catacombs 4 Misty Rainforest 2 Forest 1 Swamp 1 Island 2 Overgrown Tomb 1 Breeding Pool 1 Watery Grave I'm not sure what to do with the land base? I wanna have access to blue for Academy Ruins and sideboard options, but I also want to have Blinkmoth Nexus/Inkmoth Nexus?
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Mar 13, 2017 17:16
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sit on my Facebook posted:So the new B&R announcement got me thinking.... here's a modern brew If you have the two playsets of arcbound creatures along with the playset of hangarbacks, I don't think you need blinkmoth. Plenty of ways to pump that without dedicating land slots on it. I might try to brew something similar soonish. I really like the ravager - hangarback interaction in this deck, personally.
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Mar 13, 2017 17:36
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sit on my Facebook posted:So the new B&R announcement got me thinking.... here's a modern brew First of all, I really like the name. With that much hand disruption and the need for green mana you really need to start off with 4 Blooming Marsh. While the academy ruins is spicy, i think you are making your land base worse without that much added benefit. With so many artifacts, acient stirings might be great although you might be slightly spell heavy. Bow of Nylea is fun but you definitely need to run varolz in that spot. You have so many 0 cmc creatures that is going to make it an all star and a sac outlet for your hangarbacks/workers. While I agree with your spell selection as being the usual b/g level of flexible and great, d-command is especially good in this deck for all its modes in modern. Give it try before you rule it out. Sickening fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 17:41
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a couple things to remember about Standard: 1) the current tier 1 decks are all heavily based on linear Kaladesh block mechanics, so we should expect them to be at their strongest right now and get weaker relative to other decks as more sets enter the format. 2) Wizards R&D likely did not get to test the 'real' Amonkhet Standard (with BFZ/OGW) in their internal FFL testing, since the rotation revert happened pretty suddenly and recently. It's possible that there's some interaction they are worried about there and want to try to hold off any more bannings until Amonkhet is out, figuring that 2 sets of Standard bans is preferable to 3.
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Mar 13, 2017 17:50
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Tales of Woe posted:a couple things to remember about Standard: No they aren't.
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Mar 13, 2017 17:52
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Sickening posted:First of all, I really like the name. Oh, geez. how did I forget about Blooming Marsh. Ancient Stirrings also seems like fire, but I gotta say I don't understand Varolz. The only guys I can Scavenge are Constrictor and Overseer? Edit: Oh, wait. Ooooh, Constrictor/Scales raises it to one counter when you Scavenge for zero, doesn't it. That is indeed very good sit on my Facebook fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 18:09
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Tales of Woe posted:2) Wizards R&D likely did not get to test the 'real' Amonkhet Standard (with BFZ/OGW) in their internal FFL testing, since the rotation revert happened pretty suddenly and recently. It's possible that there's some interaction they are worried about there and want to try to hold off any more bannings until Amonkhet is out, figuring that 2 sets of Standard bans is preferable to 3. That's a good point. Standard is going to potentially get worse before it gets better. The FFL has already proven to be a poor testing ground, but it's better than nothing and probably saved us from some true horrors. Someone with more caring than I have should start looking at BFZ block for potential combo pieces or overlooked good cards that don't see play right now.
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Mar 13, 2017 18:14
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sit on my Facebook posted:Oh, geez. how did I forget about Blooming Marsh. Ancient Stirrings also seems like fire, but I gotta say I don't understand Varolz. The only guys I can Scavenge are Constrictor and Overseer? With Constrictor or Scales you can scavenge for 0 but get a +1 counter...correct?
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Mar 13, 2017 18:14
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sit on my Facebook posted:Oh, geez. how did I forget about Blooming Marsh. Ancient Stirrings also seems like fire, but I gotta say I don't understand Varolz. The only guys I can Scavenge are Constrictor and Overseer? No, it doesn't get a counter from the zero stuff, so no, it might not be great in your version. I am wrong. Its good because its a sac outlet and turns your otherwise useless creatures in the graveyard into something later. Better off with bow or something else good at 3 cmc.
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Mar 13, 2017 18:17
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Zero is not one or more so scales/constrictor don't do anything.
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Mar 13, 2017 18:17
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Both say "if one or more", so I don't see how either would cause zero to become one. Zero is not "one or more". efb
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Mar 13, 2017 18:18
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Ha Ha Ha owned!! 
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Mar 13, 2017 18:18
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black potus posted:Zero is not one or more so scales/constrictor don't do anything. Listen buddy that may be the way YOU think math works
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Mar 13, 2017 18:19
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black potus posted:Zero is not one or more so scales/constrictor don't do anything. RTFC strikes again Sickening posted:No, it doesn't get a counter from the zero stuff, so no, it might not be great in your version. I am wrong. Its good because its a sac outlet and turns your otherwise useless creatures in the graveyard into something later. Better off with bow or something else good at 3 cmc. Yeah.. otoh you're fully right about Dromoka's Command I think, it's just as easy to splash white as it is blue and that's probably way more impactful than the Ruins sit on my Facebook fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 18:21
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