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Jedit posted:Yes, he does. Skizzzer posted:I didn't quite view the movie pushing that point of view, rather, Logan's struggle was more about reconciling what he feels is a life wasted. Logan is obviously contemplating suicide. I feel like there's an obvious juxtaposition between the X-men previous and what they are now, which is dead, forgotten, and not even mentioned by name. It's not even a life wasted - Logan feels like his life is poo poo and that he's probably caused more harm than good. He's better off dead than alive, and it's only the professor who is keeping Logan alive when we are first introduced to Logan. After the prof dies, it's Laura who keeps Logan alive, and Laura the reason Logan keeps fighting. We know Logan's identity; he knows it; and the Reavers know it too. He's a killer, and that doesn't change. coyo7e posted:So you admitted you're super lazy, and then never actually bothered to even try and back up the points you made - you just pivoted to replying to someone else afrter what, 4 or 5 people called you out for what is, essentially, a shitpost? Or go watch Fury Road. Honest Thief fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 12:04
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DeimosRising posted:Some of my favorites are Candyman and, not quite the same but equally lame exposition, the part in The Wicker Man where suddenly Howie has a voiceover for like 15 seconds and then starts talking out loud to himself in a library I LOVE that part in Wicker Man.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:44
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Honest Thief posted:He kinda tried talking out of getting robbed, only to slaughter them all not ten minutes into the movie's opening. He didn't show then nearly the same restraint as he did when sparing Pierce (twice ?), for some reason. Contrasting with revisionist westerns like Shane, or Unforgiven, Logan just seems enamored with its dope violence too much for similar themes to stick. On the other hand, it was great to see gore tech 3.0. That reading really ignores not only the context but the actual text. He finally fights back against the carjackers after they've shot him at least once and are trying to beat him to death while he's on the ground. Pierce is knocked out the first time, and Logan takes him out to the desert and leaves him there in the hope of not actually fighting. And even when Pierce returns, Logan's focus is on escape, not the fight. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 14:17
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Snowman_McK posted:That reading really ignores not only the context but the actual text. He finally fights back against the carjackers after they've shot him at least once and are trying to beat him to death while he's on the ground. Pierce is knocked out the first time, and Logan takes him out to the desert and leaves him there in the hope of not actually fighting. And even when Pierce returns, Logan's focus is on escape, not the fight. If that's him avoiding killing or picking up fights, he's doing a not very good job at it, even Caliban comments on him coming home all bloodied and the tone made it seem it wasn't a first. Honest Thief fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 14:25
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Honest Thief posted:He didn't show then nearly the same restraint as he did when sparing Pierce (twice ?), Uh. Isn't he showing restraint when he makes the decisions to spare Pierce?
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Mar 14, 2017 14:41
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Honest Thief posted:If that's him avoiding killing or picking up fights, he's doing a not very good job at it, even Caliban comments on him coming home all bloodied and the tone made it seem it wasn't a first. Exactly. It's about him trying to run from something he can't get away from.
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Mar 14, 2017 14:44
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Uh. Isn't he showing restraint when he makes the decisions to spare Pierce? Yes, but it seems contrived having him dumped in the middle of the desert when he's shown less restraint at the beginning. Even with him screwing up and killing them because of not keeping an handle on his rage: either he's running away from trouble or he's actively trying to change who he is. If he's running away, why not kill Pierce, if he's trying to change, it doesn't seem like he's trying much. THE BAR posted:Exactly. It's about him trying to run from something he can't get away from. That would make more sense, but I still think that the movie is trying to push more often an identity crisis. Honest Thief fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 14:51
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Honest Thief posted:Yes, but it seems contrived having him dumped in the middle of the desert when he's shown less restraint at the beginning. but dude. we keep giving you examples of Logan trying to avoid violence (I mean, he's working as a lowly limo driver which seems like a bit of a clue) and you say he's either not restraining himself when he clearly is and when that argument looks like an obvious stretch you dismiss it as "contrived" for some reason.
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Mar 14, 2017 14:59
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He tries to avoid the fight at the start of the movie but they push him too far and he snaps. Later in the movie, when he's helping the father repair the water pump, he tries to avoid a fight with the racist shitlord and succeeds. I dunno, this seems important somehow.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:05
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Logan avoiding fights is probably holdover from the source material Old Man Logan where he refuses to pop his claws or fight at all in the beginning.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:16
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Simply Simon posted:He tries to avoid the fight at the start of the movie but they push him too far and he snaps. No he doesn't. All he did was provoke them into a larger response.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:31
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MrJacobs posted:No he doesn't. All he did was provoke them into a larger response.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:36
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Simply Simon posted:He could have carved them up right here and there, and he didn't, he just told them to gently caress off. That's exactly what the father would have tried (probably very unsuccessfully) on his own, so even if Logan was just being polite, and keeping his abilities on the down-low, he did not fight with them, just scared them off. That is a lot of restraint in the face of these assholes. Didn't he break some guys nose?
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Mar 14, 2017 15:38
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Didn't he break some guys nose?
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Mar 14, 2017 15:47
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Mr. Flunchy posted:but dude. we keep giving you examples of Logan trying to avoid violence (I mean, he's working as a lowly limo driver which seems like a bit of a clue) and you say he's either not restraining himself when he clearly is and when that argument looks like an obvious stretch you dismiss it as "contrived" for some reason. Simply Simon posted:He tries to avoid the fight at the start of the movie but they push him too far and he snaps. Honest Thief fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 15:53
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I LOVE that part in Wicker Man. I don't think it's lame as in bad, just that it's like this very clear "aw gently caress it, I spent all this time reading Golden Bough and I'm getting this exposition in the drat movie" moment. The old lady giving him the stinkeye even doubles as an audience stand in
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Mar 14, 2017 16:54
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DeimosRising posted:I don't think it's lame as in bad, just that it's like this very clear "aw gently caress it, I spent all this time reading Golden Bough and I'm getting this exposition in the drat movie" moment. The old lady giving him the stinkeye even doubles as an audience stand in Oh, I know. I just think Robin Hardy was especially skilled at that kind of unusual, wry humor. His only other non Wicker movie, The Fantasist, is full of that stuff.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:12
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I wonder why X-24 didn't start attacking Logan in the farmhouse as soon as he saw him, since he had no problem attacking everyone else he saw. I mean, Charles was just laying there not offering any violence at all and got shanked..
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Mar 14, 2017 17:17
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biracial bear for uncut posted:I wonder why X-24 didn't start attacking Logan in the farmhouse as soon as he saw him, since he had no problem attacking everyone else he saw. I mean, Charles was just laying there not offering any violence at all and got shanked.. Charles is a literal walking WMD. The second he had gone after Laura and she began freaking out Charles would have tried to do something about it
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Mar 14, 2017 17:22
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Honest Thief posted:
I don't know what you mean.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:24
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Skizzzer posted:I don't know what you mean.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:37
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Honest Thief posted:The comic books, people recognizing him as Wolverine, the hair trimming, just seems to be pushing him toward realizing he can't not be Wolverine. Isn't that just ancillary to my point?
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Mar 14, 2017 18:05
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Skizzzer posted:Isn't that just ancillary to my point?
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Mar 14, 2017 18:14
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Honest Thief posted:Well, could be, but I see it as pushing the other point of view more /shrug To be honest I don't think you know what you're saying.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:20
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Honest Thief posted:He's made of an unbreakable metal, he wasn't going to die from some baseball bats, he was pissed off by the beating and sliced them apart. He's not defending himself. He's defending his limo, which is his livelihood. If they had just been beating him he might have taken it, but the car is critical. He does everything in his power to protect it, and even then violence is the last resort. Killing Pierce would have been silly -- dude's an Important Person with a business card and all. He'd have been missed, and it may well have brought swifter retribution. quote:If that's him avoiding killing or picking up fights, he's doing a not very good job at it, This is totally true, but saying he's not trying at all is missing some pretty important character stuff.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:30
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Honest Thief posted:The comic books, people recognizing him as Wolverine, the hair trimming, just seems to be pushing him toward realizing he can't not be Wolverine. Is Logan in it's own timeline (Though if not X-Men franchise sequels will poo poo all over this movies continuity) or were there X-Men comics in either the Apocolypse or X trilogy timeline? Or is it like deadpool where the continuity is a big "Who gives a poo poo?"
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Mar 14, 2017 19:41
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The X-Men films in general don't really care about continuity.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:48
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:The X-Men Let's talk about Nightcrawler's dad, the literal devil.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:49
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Charles is a literal walking WMD. The second he had gone after Laura and she began freaking out Charles would have tried to do something about it I'm pretty sure X-24 Didn't know/comprehend this, given how Dr. Rice talked to him like a small child.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:49
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:The X-Men films in general don't really care about continuity. I would agree, until they made a whole movie dealing with that poo poo as a main plot. I dunno if them being so confusing makes them the most accurate comic book movies or not.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:49
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MrJacobs posted:Is Logan in it's own timeline (Though if not X-Men franchise sequels will poo poo all over this movies continuity) or were there X-Men comics in either the Apocolypse or X trilogy timeline? Or is it like deadpool where the continuity is a big "Who gives a poo poo?" The X-men movies are a god drat mess when it comes to continuity and canon. Someone help me, but I THINK it goes Like this: Original Trilogy: Xmen 1-3 with Origins: Wolverine as a prequel The Wolverine serves as a sequel to 3 Prequel Trilogy: First Class, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse (note DOFP resets the time line so that Xmen 1-2 of the original timeline occur, but not X3-The Wolverine. This is good, because gently caress X3 and Origins. However I have a huge soft spot for "The Wolverine" so a bit sad that storyline is essentially debunk, cannon-wise) I am not sure if LOGAN is in this timeline. The first Xmen movie from 2000 is referenced so I want to say yes. DEADPOOL: I honestly think this franchise will give no fucks and will exist in whatever timeline it wants to. Feel free to correct me i'm basing all this on me having watch the movies and nothing else.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:06
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The only part I'm not sure made sense, is at the end the company didn't want the mutant kids anymore, they wanted to kill them, but they go in mostly trying to catch and grab them instead of shooting to kill. Obviously it's needed in a movie sense because you can't have the kids all just get shot from a distance. The only plot explanation I have for it is a realistic one: No-one wants to go and shoot a bunch of innocent kids. Of course if you can just grab them easily enough you're not going to want to shoot them unnecessarily. Let the company deal with them afterwards. But it does feel like the film is a bit confused about whether they're trying to capture the kids or shoot them. A lot of the time close-combat in this film seems more effective than bullets anyway. We have to kill fast, and bullets too slow.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:09
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Nition posted:The only part I'm not sure made sense, is at the end the company didn't want the mutant kids anymore, they wanted to kill them, but they go in mostly trying to catch and grab them instead of shooting to kill. Obviously it's needed in a movie sense because you can't have the kids all just get shot from a distance. X-men has had a running thing about the mechanization of mutants. Wolverine is an attempt to turn a person into a weapon. X2 is about turning Professor X into a weapon of mass destruction. The thing that makes X-24 so horrifying is that it's a workaround for that whole flaw of Wolverine as a living weapon. We've had eight movies of this guy feeling guilty about his existence and trying to mold himself into something better than his base nature and what they wanted him to be. So they make a version of Wolverine without the conscience. He really is a villain who exists on an existential level for Logan. X-24 is Logan's ultimate defeat. It's him finally becoming a killing machine with absolutely no way out of it. No bald professors or spunky teens or red headed psychics can fix it. And the actual Logan just quietly dies. The film is actually kind of Kirby-like in it's philosophy. The opposite of life isn't death. Death is an aspect of life. The opposite of life is lack of freedom. The stakes at the end for the kids can't just be being shot.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:47
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I find it funny but very appropriate continuity in the X Men movie verse is fucker up because it matches the poo poo in the comics and I don't know if it was unintentional or what because it's like serindipity
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Mar 14, 2017 20:50
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Gatts posted:I find it funny but very appropriate continuity in the X Men movie verse is fucker up because it matches the poo poo in the comics and I don't know if it was unintentional or what because it's like serindipity Extend an IP for years and years and years Mix in time travel stories Shake up the creators responsible for telling the stories almost every step of the way Yup, you're gonna have a hosed up timeline.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:57
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Mr. Flunchy posted:but dude. we keep giving you examples of Logan trying to avoid violence (I mean, he's working as a lowly limo driver which seems like a bit of a clue) and you say he's either not restraining himself when he clearly is and when that argument looks like an obvious stretch you dismiss it as "contrived" for some reason. Skizzzer posted:To be honest I don't think you know what you're saying.
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Mar 14, 2017 21:12
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'Killing the kids in the hospital' is different enough from 'killing the kids in a forest somewhere' that I didn't really see them trying to capture rather than shoot at the end to be a big discrepancy. I assume the company wanted to euthanize them in a lab setting so they can get a fresh autopsy or something. Destroying the company property in the field might mean a much lower return on investment. None of that's stated in the film but eh.
NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 21:53
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I don't know why some people think that the mutant prophylactic in the corn syrup is affecting Logan and Charles. We know it doesn't do anything to existing mutants because Caliban is unaffected by it. Charles has literal brain problems, which effects his brain powers. Logan is near 200 years old and has all his bones laced with what is/has become a toxic metal, which is why his healing factor is compromised. Further we don't even know how ultra powerful either were before, because we know that all the X- Men films prior are to be treated as unreliably narrated.Solaris 2.0 posted:The X-men movies are a god drat mess when it comes to continuity and canon. It's best if you approach every X media entry as it's own thing with loose continuity with other X media. Logan more or less lets you pick and choose what you want to be cannon, it's not really important. Honestly more attempts at cinematic universes should do the same: Loose continuity where the needs of the current film are more important than making sure everything fits together like a giant puzzle.
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Mar 14, 2017 22:35
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Gyges posted:Honestly more attempts at cinematic universes should do the same: Loose continuity where the needs of the current film are more important than making sure everything fits together like a giant puzzle. Marvel is already doing this. "The Redemption of Tony Stark" and then by the next film he's a prick again.
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Mar 14, 2017 22:37
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Marvel is already doing this. "The Redemption of Tony Stark" and then by the next film he's a prick again. A man has to be what he is, Joey. Can't break the mould. I tried it and it didn't work for me.
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Mar 14, 2017 22:43
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