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Lestaki posted:Killing Carta had some utility but McGillis was besties with Gaelio and engaged to Almiria, so his alliance with the Bauduin was pretty set in stone as long as he was willing to manipulate Gaelio. Not particularly difficult wrt season one Gaelio who admired McGillis and just wanted to be reform-Gjallahorn buddies. His constant hunting down of Tekkadan made it quite clear that the guy was all talk when it came to actually reforming Gjallahorn. He had seen just how awful Gjallahorn had been face first but all he could care about getting revenge for his own ego. This season he has been better about hiding it but he is still quite willing for everything to burn as long as he can pretend to care about actually doing good whilst doing jack poo poo.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:03
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MonsterEnvy posted:Here is the biggest thing. McGillis killing Carta and Gaelio was completely unneeded to his plan. And those crimes are the major things that are bringing him down. Carta was the scion of the Issues which are the highest ranking member of GH. Getting her killed (and lets be real Carta hosed herself in this case) left a big hole in there plus allowed McGillis to get control of the outer earth regulatory fleet. Now Carta was clearly nuts for McG, you could argue that he would have benefited more trying to marry her instead of Almiria but the differences in positions probably worked against him in this case. Gaelio had to die because if he was dead then Almiria would have been the Baduin scion, giving him full control of two houses. Hunt11 posted:His constant hunting down of Tekkadan made it quite clear that the guy was all talk when it came to actually reforming Gjallahorn. He had seen just how awful Gjallahorn had been face first but all he could care about getting revenge for his own ego. This season he has been better about hiding it but he is still quite willing for everything to burn as long as he can pretend to care about actually doing good whilst doing jack poo poo. Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 00:04
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OnimaruXLR posted:huh The plan right now is that they burn their identities. "Tekkadan" is dead. The former CGS third group is a bunch of government contractors in decent jobs on Earth. It's just a coincidence they look a lot like some infamous, certainly dead mercenaries from Mars. Happens all the time. Once knew a philosopher whose son looked just like this space Texan, despite them not being related. They've got a little money, they have just enough contacts, and they got each other. If they make it out alive, it's a win. Taking down Rustal, being kings of Mars? That's all the crazy poo poo that got a bunch of people killed and cost Tekkadan almost everything. Three hots, a cot, and nobody shooting at you? That's what they were going for in the first place. That's the goal.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:05
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OnimaruXLR posted:I mean, otherwise the Tekkadan are just going to be fugitives or dead. Gjallahorn gets to maintain it's "gently caress the poor Martians (sometimes literally)" status quo. And McGillis just ends up as little more than a non-raving loon who is killed to make Rustal look important. This is why I kind of like the idea that McGillis is going to control the MAs with Bael, it would wrap the ending up pretty tidily if Tekkadan temporarily teams up with Gjallahorn to beat McGillis after he blows up a city or something with his MAs (RIP Cookie and Cracker), McGillis and Rustal die in the process, and Gjallahorn as an organization falls from grace when everyone figures out the calamity war was a false flag by Agnika so he could take over the world/somethingsomethingoverpopulation. Of course I'm hoping for a less than tidy ending, since I feel like the show's been teasing that this whole time, but it's tempting because it all fits so nicely and answers some lingering questions (like how/why did the MAs get set to kill all humans mode).
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Mar 13, 2017 00:08
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Xy Hapu posted:This is why I kind of like the idea that McGillis is going to control the MAs with Bael, it would wrap the ending up pretty tidily if Tekkadan temporarily teams up with Gjallahorn to beat McGillis after he blows up a city or something with his MAs (RIP Cookie and Cracker), McGillis and Rustal die in the process, and Gjallahorn as an organization falls from grace when everyone figures out the calamity war was a false flag by Agnika so he could take over the world/somethingsomethingoverpopulation. Of course I'm hoping for a less than tidy ending, since I feel like the show's been teasing that this whole time, but it's tempting because it all fits so nicely and answers some lingering questions (like how/why did the MAs get set to kill all humans mode). I hope not because a calamity war spinoff ova or manga would be dope and a noble organization getting corrupt over time makes more sense in that regard than a mustache twirling groups of psychopaths wanting to take over the solar sphere with systematic genocide. Its not like popular opinion can change on a dime. History is written by the victors. Dont need to drag down possible source material. (Although GH always being asses would make them a good analogy to the federation)
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Mar 13, 2017 00:26
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chiasaur11 posted:The plan right now is that they burn their identities. And that's probably the most realistic goal, and felt like a good flash of hope for the protagonists after getting their asses kicked so hard recently, but... The ruling military body in the solar system being run by a bunch of child loving, privileged-to-the-point-of-stupidity, opportunistic shitbirds who care more about their own influence than maintaining any kind of order doesn't exactly sit well as an ending, either. It'd be the biggest downer Gundam ending since hamburgers. No victory, no "understanding", just rich people making GBS threads down the necks of poor people with absolutely zero consequences. This is why, as cool as he's been lately, I haven't been able to throw a lot of emotional weight behind Galileo. Because as justified as he might be in his vengeance boner for McGillis, he's an agent of the system that's the root cause for all this poo poo in the first place. It's not like he has some Captain America-y "I'm going to make sure that some form of justice is served from within" long-term aim. He just wants to beat up the guy that tried to kill him.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:37
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Cao Ni Ma posted:I hope not because a calamity war spinoff ova or manga would be dope and a noble organization getting corrupt over time makes more sense in that regard than a mustache twirling groups of psychopaths wanting to take over the solar sphere with systematic genocide. I was thinking more like a Code Geass scenario where one magnificent bastard secretly manipulated a bunch of naive/dumb but noble dudes into helping him reform the world to his liking (kind of fits the MO of some of the seven star descendants). Would be appropriate that a wannabe magnificent bastard in the same gundam leads to its downfall 300 years later 
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Mar 13, 2017 01:11
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To be fair to Gaelio we don't know his long term goals. He likely does have some stuff he plans to do after McGillis is finished.
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Mar 13, 2017 02:36
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Argas posted:Killing Carta opened up a spot for him to be promoted to. Killing Gaelio was more for the long-term to secure the Bauduin family. Both of them were fanatically loyal to McGillis to the point where they would have literally died for him(Carta effectively did!) and would have easily gone along with anything he wanted them to if he dressed it up properly. It's very, very easy to see Carta in the place of that dingus at the head of McGillis's revolutionary fleet, for example, and Gaelio would have gladly filled the role Isurugi was filling in this season. Him betraying and murdering them basically boils down to a combination of petty revenge against the noble system that used him as a child prostitute and McGillis's personal obsession with absolute power being centralized in The Strongest Dude. Rustal would have had a lot more difficulty dealing with a more patient McGillis who had the unwavering support of two other Seven Stars families and wasn't full of easily exploited weaknesses like the proof of his attempted murder of Gaelio. Imagine the current conflict with McGillis seizing Bael, except instead of McGillis crossing his arms and going "I have Bael, obey me" to the neutral Seven Star families, he has Gaelio and Carta speaking up in his favor to support his claim.
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Mar 13, 2017 03:29
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Yeah, a major thing with McGillis is that he's actually really small and petty and childish. He's good at planning but his plans are all colored by his behavior and frankly almost every flaw in his plans is *entirely* his fault.
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Mar 13, 2017 03:34
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Hell Rustal was only against him early on because he knew from Gaelio about McGillis' crimes.
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Mar 13, 2017 03:47
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Hell, McGillis could have literally just killed Gaelio without pulling off his mask and revealing his plan and he'd have been fine, but nope. (And then he failed at killing Gaelio which is just goddamn sloppy.)
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Mar 13, 2017 03:50
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Kanos posted:Both of them were fanatically loyal to McGillis to the point where they would have literally died for him(Carta effectively did!) and would have easily gone along with anything he wanted them to if he dressed it up properly. It's very, very easy to see Carta in the place of that dingus at the head of McGillis's revolutionary fleet, for example, and Gaelio would have gladly filled the role Isurugi was filling in this season. Him betraying and murdering them basically boils down to a combination of petty revenge against the noble system that used him as a child prostitute and McGillis's personal obsession with absolute power being centralized in The Strongest Dude. We've seen with Iok that just because a person trusts you and would do anything for you doesn't make them a reliable asset. And there's a difference between having a fleet under your personal command versus having it under your friend's command. Carta also didn't seem the least bit reform-minded. Hell, going by S1 alone, Gaelio didn't either. It was basically established after the fact in S2, so it wasn't exactly a defining trait.
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Mar 13, 2017 04:22
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Argas posted:We've seen with Iok that just because a person trusts you and would do anything for you doesn't make them a reliable asset. The only reason why Iok ended up doing a bunch of stupid poo poo is because Rustal gave him a very long leash because he expected a stern talking to would make Iok not act like a stupid moron literally all the time. McGillis had no problems assigning the kool-aid drinking puppet that gave the revolutionary speech a fleet command even though that guy was a fool because McGillis never intended to give the guy any autonomy. It doesn't actually matter if Carta or Gaelio are reform-minded if they're willing to follow McGillis's lead on things that are important to McGillis. Which they would be, because if McGillis is extremely adept at anything, it's manipulating people who trust him. Remember that he managed to convince Gaelio - the man so disgusted by cybernetic enhancement that he threw up when he saw Tekkadan's whiskers - to turn his loyal subordinate into a limbless robotic Frankenstein's Monster to "give him another chance at vengeance". Until McGillis decided to be an arrogant poo poo and gloat like a moron Gaelio had absolutely no idea whatsoever that McGillis had been running a con on him and was shocked to his very core about it, which suggests that McGillis had his friends completely fooled the entire time. There's no reason why that couldn't have continued indefinitely.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:00
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Kanos posted:The only reason why Iok ended up doing a bunch of stupid poo poo is because Rustal gave him a very long leash because he expected a stern talking to would make Iok not act like a stupid moron literally all the time. McGillis had no problems assigning the kool-aid drinking puppet that gave the revolutionary speech a fleet command even though that guy was a fool because McGillis never intended to give the guy any autonomy. Well, if Rustal starts investigating McGillis as a rival for power, then I imagine he would go after Carta and Gaelio.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:08
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Argas posted:Well, if Rustal starts investigating McGillis as a rival for power, then I imagine he would go after Carta and Gaelio. That's the rub - McGillis had relatively clean hands before he decided to murder Carta and Gaelio, and as far as we're aware Carta was a well-meaning incompetent like Iok and Gaelio didn't have any dirty laundry.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:18
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Kanos posted:That's the rub - McGillis had relatively clean hands before he decided to murder Carta and Gaelio, and as far as we're aware Carta was a well-meaning incompetent like Iok and Gaelio didn't have any dirty laundry. Sure but I doubt he'd let that stop him.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:30
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Following in the theme of 'family' McGillis is someone without a family who also doesn't want one. His betrayals of Carta and Galieo are completely unnecessary, practically, but thematically necessary, because that's what his character is. Behind the pretty face, he's an anti social personality, a result of his highly abusive upbringing. Kudelia is the compete opposite, someone who is genuinely reform minded to the point of self sacrifice. She, like the orphans, didn't have much of a real family, but managed to find one.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:35
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rudatron posted:Following in the theme of 'family' McGillis is someone without a family who also doesn't want one. Possibly thematically necessary, but also a relatively good indicator he's actually a really loving bad person to reform the system. Sure, some of his supporters were highly intelligent like Isurugi, but most are probably more like that dipshit liaison to Tekkadan who was like "don't worry, McGillis is perfectly in control of the situation and everything is going according to plan!"  Even Tekkadan falls into this, as Orga is basically the only core individual who bothers to put any effort into thinking what would be good for everyone outside vague generalities, with the others just goading him on.It's patronizing to say, but violent overthrow by the oppressed very rarely ends well - generally ending up even worse than the previously lovely system in at the very least the short-mid term. You end up with stuff like the Reign of Terror or the Cultural Revolution/Great Leap Forward. Or Venezuela to look at current events. It's why it's so frustrating to keep seeing people going "well sure McGillis is bad, but look at what the Seven Stars are doing!" Gjallarhorn is utter poo poo currently, but the ending of McGillis in charge would have likely resulted in the solar system painted red.
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Mar 13, 2017 06:02
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Argas posted:Sure but I doubt he'd let that stop him. Rustal had no interest in opposing Iznario who was more or less the head of the organization. (Though he did not have any issue with his exile.) The only reason he was so against McGillis at the start was because of Gaelio revealing his crimes to him. They probbably would have come to conflict eventually. But Rustal and Iok knowing the truth is why they opposed him from the start. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 07:10
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Hunt11 posted:His constant hunting down of Tekkadan made it quite clear that the guy was all talk when it came to actually reforming Gjallahorn. He had seen just how awful Gjallahorn had been face first but all he could care about getting revenge for his own ego. This season he has been better about hiding it but he is still quite willing for everything to burn as long as he can pretend to care about actually doing good whilst doing jack poo poo. I'd dispute this point but even if this was true, it doesn't matter, because McGillis doesn't give a poo poo about reforming Gjallahorn. The big flashback episode made it pretty clear his principle goal was to become The King because power is awesome and if he's powerful he'll never have to suffer again. After that, he may well reform some things and make Gjallahorn more meritocratic, but that's incidental to establishing his personal autocracy using Baal and won't fundamentally change Gjallahorn's role in the system. Given his entire campaign is basically a power play, he should be able to take Gaelio along for the ride if he sells it right and deal with him later if need be. Kill all the friends you want- after you're King.
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Mar 13, 2017 07:55
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MonsterEnvy posted:Rustal had no interest in opposing Iznario who was more or less the head of the organization. (Though he did not have any issue with his exile.) The only reason he was so against McGillis at the start was because of Gaelio revealing his crimes to him. They probbably would have come to conflict eventually. But Rustal and Iok knowing the truth is why they opposed him from the start. Eh, McGillis would be a rival for him because he's an up and comer. I do think he wouldn't be nearly as aggressive. Hell, given that McGillis wouldn't be promoted to head of the Outer Earth Orbit fleet, Rustal might even scout him out for Arianrhod. Getting a bit too theoretical for my liking here.
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Mar 13, 2017 08:17
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Why is "Kings of mars" looked at as an impossible dream. But fending off a ground assault, making it back into space, breaking through the largest fleet in the solar system right now, a fleet who isn't afraid to use danslaifs, with a single damaged ship, almost no spare parts, 1/5 of their funds, a three week trip to earth full of pirates, and somehow sneaking onto earth without being recognized as the solar systems most wanted, and then breaking into a highly guarded Gallyhorn databank so they can all become John McJohnson. A Ryusei-go repair-V flying into the final battle with funnels and laser cannons sounds more plausible. Although I wouldn't mind seeing Shino again in a Vidar style Helmut painted magenta with those eyes painted on.
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Mar 13, 2017 10:14
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Sazabi posted:Why is "Kings of mars" looked at as an impossible dream. But fending off a ground assault, making it back into space, breaking through the largest fleet in the solar system right now, a fleet who isn't afraid to use danslaifs, with a single damaged ship, almost no spare parts, 1/5 of their funds, a three week trip to earth full of pirates, and somehow sneaking onto earth without being recognized as the solar systems most wanted, and then breaking into a highly guarded Gallyhorn databank so they can all become John McJohnson. The Kings of Mars plan was predicated on McGillis winning the political struggle and ending up in charge of a Gjallarhorn intact enough to retain their authority over the solar system. McGillis has not only lost the struggle, he's also been outed as a fake heir with no legitimate claim to the Seven Stars and branded as a criminal. To take over Mars at this point, Tekkadan would need to decisively smash the entire Arianhrod fleet singlehandedly in a way that leaves Tekkadan intact as a fighting force(when they already lost that battle while in much better condition and with much more help) and then hope that the Mars Branch leader decides to throw in behind McGillis again. Even then, you'd then have a bunch of hostile Seven Stars families on Earth who would need to be dealt with, and even then you'd have an utterly shattered Gjallarhorn and a lot of economic blocs that would be interested in filling the power vacuum that would also need to be dealt with. The "let's scrub our identities" plan is a lot more feasible because the only military objective is survival. They need to break out of the encirclement and get their asses off Mars and then survive the trip to Earth, at which point they have to lay low until they can use their influence with Makanai to have Makanai scrub their IDs. They have experience sneaking onto Earth while being highly wanted by Gjallarhorn authorities; they did it in S1 to bring Kudelia to Edmonton, after all, and they did it again in this season to save Takaki. This plan is still a long shot, but it's a 1% chance instead of a 0.0000001% chance to survive.
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Mar 13, 2017 10:30
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Sazabi posted:Why is "Kings of mars" looked at as an impossible dream. But fending off a ground assault, making it back into space, breaking through the largest fleet in the solar system right now, a fleet who isn't afraid to use danslaifs, with a single damaged ship, almost no spare parts, 1/5 of their funds, a three week trip to earth full of pirates, and somehow sneaking onto earth without being recognized as the solar systems most wanted, and then breaking into a highly guarded Gallyhorn databank so they can all become John McJohnson. Because becoming King of Mars involves not just surviving that fleet with no resources and mechs, it means actively defeating them in prolonged battle.
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Mar 13, 2017 10:32
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 Small detail in the PV in the same vain as the "Dainsleif Armed" one from a few episodes back. You can see Rustal having a convo with Iok and Nobliss Gordon at the same time here.
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Mar 13, 2017 17:11
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So just to be clear, we're all glossing over whole Atra and Mika thing, right?  SyntheticPolygon posted:Because becoming King of Mars involves not just surviving that fleet with no resources and mechs, it means actively defeating them in prolonged battle. The only way it could happen now is to sink the entire Arianhodr Fleet and Gjallarhorn afterwards, with just a single ship, three Gundam Frames, and a handful of half-hosed Shidens and Landman Rodi's. It ain't happening.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:34
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Does anybody feel as though some of the OSTs are very similar to the ones in Code Geass?
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Mar 14, 2017 16:55
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It's just because of the spanish guitar.
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Mar 14, 2017 16:56
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Neddy Seagoon posted:So just to be clear, we're all glossing over whole Atra and Mika thing, right? Midjack posted:So I guess we're going to get baby Mika now what with Atra looking different.
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Mar 14, 2017 16:58
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Neddy Seagoon posted:So just to be clear, we're all glossing over whole Atra and Mika thing, right? I can't believe this series would imply that two teens had sex. What is this world coming to?
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Mar 14, 2017 16:59
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I'm glad Atra is still fully in on the OT3 even after having sex with Mika and getting at least something resembling feelings out of him. By this point even if they get their identities changed and everyone lives happy forever after or whatever, it'll be a sad ending if the OT3 doesn't happen. Kudelia deserves happiness too.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:01
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Kuroyama posted:I can't believe this series would imply that two teens had sex. What is this world coming to? It's not helped by the fact that Atra, who is allegedly a sixteen- seventeen year old looks like she's 10. Also she's doing it for insanely hosed up reasons.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:01
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Monaghan posted:It's not helped by the fact that Atra, who is allegedly a sixteen- seventeen year old looks like she's 10. To be fair Mika looks the exact same age as her.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:12
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I straight up thought Atra was like 10 in season 1. It's less weird in season 2 where they're a little more clear about how old she's supposed to be but its still weird.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:16
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I cant believe [spoiler]Mikazuki is going to die in the second to last episode and Atra is going to die giving birth. Thats one hell of a downer ending but at least things are looking a little bit better for the next generation of iron blooded orphans [/spoilers]
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Mar 14, 2017 17:19
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Atra is not going to die in childbirth. That would be retardedly grimdark
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Mar 14, 2017 17:35
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Cao Ni Ma posted:I cant believe [spoiler]Mikazuki is going to die in the second to last episode and Atra is going to die giving birth. Thats one hell of a downer ending but at least things are looking a little bit better for the next generation of iron blooded orphans [/spoilers] No, Mika is going to accept an offer to work for Rustal, who is then going to trick Mika into fatally wounding Atra, but only after Mika kills all of the youngest Tekkadan members. Atra will then die in childbirth while sending one of her twins to live with Cookie and Cracker's grandmother and the other to be adopted by Makanai. 20 years later, the two children will meet again while the daughter is on a diplomatic mission to bring the plans for Gjallarhorn's new superweapon to the Teiwaz base on Jupiter (her ship is attacked over Mars, and that's how the son, who is living as a humble Martian farmer who just really wants to go to Chryse station, ends up helping to overthrow Gjallarhorn). Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 17:46
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I'd watch gundam star wars
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Mar 14, 2017 18:28
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Luminaflare posted:I'd watch gundam star wars F91 already happened, though?
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Mar 14, 2017 19:29
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