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dpeg posted:bold_brightens_foreground = true Thanks.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:45
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Hey, is there some kinda of top secret trick I'm missing, or is Shoal actually just way the gently caress harder than any of the other Lair branches? Everything in there seems to hit like a trunk, and there's piles of enemies. Comparatively, Spider and Swamp tend to be pretty easy except for the final floor, and Snake, while difficult, and plenty of skinny hallways and mostly slow enemies.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:51
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fool_of_sound posted:Hey, is there some kinda of top secret trick I'm missing, or is Shoal actually just way the gently caress harder than any of the other Lair branches? Everything in there seems to hit like a trunk, and there's piles of enemies. Comparatively, Spider and Swamp tend to be pretty easy except for the final floor, and Snake, while difficult, and plenty of skinny hallways and mostly slow enemies. The wiki says that there is a small chance that there is an extra shop so it is ok.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:54
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Decrepus posted:The wiki says that there is a small chance that there is an extra shop so it is ok. Just cast rmissile so the javelin doesn't venitlate your cat/octopus king
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Mar 13, 2017 21:57
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Just cast rmissile so the javelin doesn't venitlate your cat/octopus king The devs, those fuckers, removed it!
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Mar 13, 2017 22:00
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fwiw invis is really good in shoals, and if you take your time being careful with engagements/pulling things back to stairs it's not that bad it is the hardest lair branch though. the capacity for things there to mess with your movement via mesmerize/fear/wind/barbs/nypmhs blocking stairs plus the overall dangerous monster set is pretty nasty. I still think the rotation should be shoals/snake+swamp/spider, instead of shoals/swamp+snake/spider. they're grouped by theming but there's a lot more variance in difficulty that way, with swamp(usually) being the easiest but swapping with the hardest one. it's much harder if you roll shoals+snake compared to swamp+spider.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:09
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I'd pick Shoals over Spider every time. You don't need any resists for Shoals, most things are normal speed, most things are edible, hardly anything can see invisible, and the enemies actually drop armour, shields, and weapons including demon tridents. Compared to Spider where everything is faster than you, nothing drops items, almost nothing is edible, and if you enter the zone without poison resistance you die instantly. If you're extra lucky you can even be paralysed by a hornet, or run into my least favourite new enemy in the entire game, the Spark Wasp Band. Meanwhile in Shoals you'd be relaxing on the beach with a margarita, watching the tide roll out. The worst thing that can happen to you there is someone sings at you. Maybe a cyclops kicks a sheep. I think a merfolk threw water at me once, or something. Give me a break. Spider can go to lovely hell. FULL DISCLOSURE: I generally play spellcasters and Spider is the worst branch in the game.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:48
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IronicDongz posted:fwiw invis is really good in shoals, and if you take your time being careful with engagements/pulling things back to stairs it's not that bad In theory I find Spider a lot harder than Snake (so my harder pair is Spider/Shoals) but in practice I get overconfident and die stupidly more in Snake. sequell posted:5 games for rchandra (recentish lairs): 2x Shoals:2, Snake:3, Snake:2, Snake:1
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Mar 13, 2017 22:49
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Besides invis, wands of flame (or flame tongue/throw flame if you have the spell) are way more valuable in Shoals; deep water and shallow water + fire spells will always generate steam clouds which is super nice because:
2. It breaks LOS in case you're mesmerized or need to buy yourself a bit of time against ranged enemies 3. Saves wand charges/MP since you're more damage efficient
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Mar 13, 2017 22:54
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Mu. posted:FULL DISCLOSURE: I generally play spellcasters and Spider is the worst branch in the game. Spider is real good and I love it. Last time I got it as a vampire man and I would get 20 blood potions, do a floor and then leave so I could get more blood and come back since I was extremely ill suited for doing spider while bloodless. I also enjoy driving nails into my dick with a hammer.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:10
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poison damage past the earlygame almost never matters and spark wasps are chumps who roll over and die if they have to make an MR check(granted, hexs/hex wands are also great vs shock serpents). spider is annoying but that's because of enemy density which is solved by being patient and backing up whenever you encounter anything. vampires being awful there is a problem with the design of vampires and their dumb blood mechanics. it is worse for casters but I would still not put it as the hardest. I won the game without any resists once, on a run where I got snake. I will gladly do it again on a run that gets spider(naturally when I do this the first few times I will not roll spider, but that's life). there might already have been a run where I beat spider without rPois anyways(I've certainly done swamp multiple times without it) but missing a specific resist at one point in the game is a lot harder to check in morgues and the like than never using resists ever, so I'll just do it again.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:38
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Basically nothing in Shoals has any resistances of any kind including rInvisibility, except for water elementals. The other branches are filled with enemies who heavily resist or are immune to several different types of damage. Individual monsters also tend to be a lot weaker than an individual big threat from snake/spider/swamp, except for krakens which are easy to run away from. Shoals is a huge pain because it's filled with ranged damage and things that screw with your movement, but if you can mitigate either of those it's usually pretty easy.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:44
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 why yes I will wear pissring crawl. Thank you.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:07
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Shoals is also very open, so often when you try and retreat or avoid something you run into something else and now you're running from that so you bump into more bullshit and oh hey look I'm surrounded.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:14
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Superterranean posted:
Crawl 0.20: the ring "Piss"
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Mar 14, 2017 13:19
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Superterranean posted:
Ah yes, there's only one wizard who could have been responsible for such an artifact.
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Mar 14, 2017 16:18
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Next question I can't be bothered to read 700 posts to find the answer for: does wall-jumping with Wu Jian from 2 squares away from an enemy to next to them count as a lunge as well as a jump, or just a jump? like, if a mob is against the side of a 4-wide corridor, and I'm against the other side, if I wall jump toward it do I get the lunge bonus as well as the jump attack? edit: also, I just died because Wu Jian's attacks en passant don't lop hydra heads. boo. Superterranean fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 18:24
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Mu. posted:I'd pick Shoals over Spider every time. You don't need any resists for Shoals, most things are normal speed, most things are edible, hardly anything can see invisible, and the enemies actually drop armour, shields, and weapons including demon tridents. All of spider can be cheesed with Cause Fear you idiote, memorize a single 4th level spell you should have anyway and Spider is trivial
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Mar 14, 2017 18:46
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I usually enter Spider at level 27 with a sword that can explode planets. That is sufficient.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:51
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I find that Spider is bit too easy as a melee character so I suggest that a new monster is added: Ghost Shrikes.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:05
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Superterranean posted:edit: also, I just died because Wu Jian's attacks en passant don't lop hydra heads. boo. Are you sure about that? I remember being able to cut them with Whirlwind with a scimitar of flaming, unless that changed in a recent patch.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:10
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Floodkiller posted:Are you sure about that? I remember being able to cut them with Whirlwind with a scimitar of flaming, unless that changed in a recent patch. They definitely did 2 days ago, though anecdotally it seemed like it happened MUCH less often than from a regular attack.
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Mar 14, 2017 20:12
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atomicthumbs the Spry (L20 DsEn), worshipper of Uskayaw, hit from afar by a vault warden (stone) on Vaults:5, with 302744 points after 59323 turns and 06:54:05. [CAO 0.20-a0] I was doing alright for a while, too, but I fell to Vaults:5 hubris after exploding the entrance trap. atomicthumbs fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 00:43
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the damage monsters do(besides spells which just have unique damage rolls per monster, so the same spell can do very different damage from one monster species to another) usually mostly depends on their base damage, not their weapon, so throwing weapons(particularly stones) can be really powerful in the hands of certain enemies, even if you are not a low HP species. the formula is roughly(iirc) 1d(Monster damage) + 1d(Weapon damage) + 1d(Enchantment+Slaying). HD affects to-hit but not actual damage, I believe. ex: vault wardens have base damage of 36, which means that even though a stone only has 2 damage if a vault warden throws one it can do up to 38 damage. this means they can be more dangerous than javelins, since you're losing some damage but they'll throw them more quickly(monster attack delay is between weapon base delay and 1.0). this is also why if you are beogh character you want your warlords to have weaker but faster weapons. and why Antaeus spawning with a staff or something else weak isn't actually a good thing. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 01:06
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YASP: https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/morgue/LordSloth/morgue-LordSloth-20170315-003215.txt Ninja of the Gong Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-876-g2c7b0bf (webtiles) character file. pre:2178700 LordSloth the Ninja (level 27, 254/254 HPs)
Began as a Naga Warper on Mar 11, 2017.
Was a High Priest of Wu Jian.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 4 runes on Mar 15, 2017!
The game lasted 06:47:07 (86239 turns).
LordSloth the Ninja (Naga Warper) Turns: 86239, Time: 06:47:07
Health: 254/254 AC: 41 Str: 22 XL: 27
Magic: 37/37 EV: 2 Int: 19 God: Wu Jian [*****.]
Gold: 5840 SH: 33 Dex: 7 Spells: 5/46 levels left
rFire + . . SeeInvis + a - +8 autumn katana {slice, Clar}
rCold + + + Gourm . R - +7 shadow dragon scales
rNeg + . . Faith . E - +18 shield of the Gong {rElec rN+ MR+ EV-5}
rPois + Spirit . O - +0 mask of the Dragon {MR+ Slay+3 SInv}
rElec + Reflect + r - +2 cloak {+Inv}
rCorr + Harm . n - +2 pair of gloves
MR +++++ Clarity + h - +0 naga barding {Fly}
Stlth ++++...... c - amulet "Nicyidireny" {Reflect rC+++ Dex-3 SH+3 Stlth+}
Regen 0.6/turn z - ring "Irofur" {rCorr rF+}
MPRegen 0.3/turn A - ring "Ymuntoti" {Slay+6 SInv}
b - the +7 rapier of Reason {flame, Int+4}
LordSloth fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 01:44
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LordSloth: The combination of Naga, autumn katana, shadow dragon scales, shield of the Gong, mask of the Dragon, and Stealth ++++ earns you about a million style points. Impressive!
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Mar 15, 2017 02:32
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did a no resists run again, failed but got through swamp and spider just fine  didn't die to OoF either, died to berserked orb guardians.
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Mar 15, 2017 03:16
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This was kinda cute  gnollcrawl creator made a congratulatory page for people who beat it: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23215
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Mar 15, 2017 03:46
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code:
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Mar 15, 2017 05:28
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dpeg posted:LordSloth: The combination of Naga, autumn katana, shadow dragon scales, shield of the Gong, mask of the Dragon, and Stealth ++++ earns you about a million style points. Impressive! It is very upsetting to me that the Orb kills your stealth. Not because of any kind of gameplay implications during the orb run but because it makes winning morgues look like noisy chumps. I just want to chug every potion and use every buff to get my stats high and put as many effects on my status bar as possible. If you don't leave the dungeon as a hasted invisible dragon in deaths door with a billion stats you aren't really winning.
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Mar 15, 2017 07:14
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Darox posted:It is very upsetting to me that the Orb kills your stealth. Not because of any kind of gameplay implications during the orb run but because it makes winning morgues look like noisy chumps. Last action before you leave is always eating a royal jelly, or you didn't actually win at all. 
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Mar 15, 2017 08:28
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actually it's wield choko so you can ascend to chokowaru's castle.
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Mar 15, 2017 08:40
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I decided to move to .20 because my last character -- who was insanely good and strong and handsome, and destined to find all 15 runes of Zot -- became disgustingly mutated, and I could not unmutate myself no matter how much I tried. I had the extremely good[1] mutation combination of both subdued magic 3 and berserkitis, and died in Tartarus because I forgot that I could cast Borgnjor's Revivification, choosing instead to willingly quaff a potion of berserk rage, in a decision which proved to be as incorrect as it was ironic. I followed this up by going berserk irl at the cruel mutation system, and resolved to experience the new and improved mutation system offered in .20. I chose to be a frogger because they are new, although they show up as "barachis" in-game due to a bug that hasn't been fixed yet. pre:Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-871-g785f14b (console) character file. 2292251 itsmu the Meteorologist (level 27, 363/363 HPs) Began as a Barachi Air Elementalist on Mar 12, 2017. Was the Champion of Dithmenos. Escaped with the Orb ... and 5 runes on Mar 14, 2017! The game lasted 07:55:38 (139442 turns). itsmu the Meteorologist (BaAE) Turns: 139442, Time: 07:55:39 Health: 363/363 AC: 33 Str: 17 XL: 27 Magic: 34/54 EV: 30 Int: 34 God: Dithmenos [******] Gold: 7776 SH: 16 Dex: 28 Spells: 9/80 levels left rFire + + + SeeInvis + a - +10 flail {speed, rPois MR+ Str+2 Dex+5} rCold + + + Gourm . e - +6 fire dragon scales rNeg . . . Faith . K - +1 shield {rPois} rPois + Spirit . P - +1 hat {SInv} rElec + Reflect . M - +2 cloak of Melancholy {rC+ Int+3} rCorr + Harm . j - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3} MR +++.. T - +0 pair of boots {run} Stlth .......... t - amulet "Pibereen" {+Rage rF+ Slay+2} Regen 1.7/turn Q - ring "Ryir" {rPois rC+ Slay+6} MPRegen 0.4/turn O - ring "Nuetuakk" {rElec rC+} @: brilliant, agile, berserking (expiring), silence, resistant, tornado, aura of abjuration, flying, regenerating, wreathed by umbra, studying Dodging, deflect missiles, very quick A: +LOS, swims, claws 1, deterioration 1, robust 1, slowness 1, strong legs 2 0: Orb of Zot }: 5/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy, silver, golden a: Hop, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage Froggers are one of the best species in the game. They're good at almost everything. They're even neutral at stealth, despite the fact that "shadows flee at their approach," which seems like it would be noticeable. I was hoping that they would have some entertaining interaction with the enemy named "shadow," but the only interaction they have is that shadows will attack you until you kill them, which isn't entertaining at all. I also assumed that they'd be good at ranged weapons because of their huge radius of clear vision, but ranged weapons are the only weapons they don't get a bonus for. Well, those and polearms, due to an intellectual property complaint made by The Mer Folk. I am not sure how I was able to have a divine umbra of darkness around me either, given the flavour of my species. It's pretty funny to be surrounded by darkness right up until a single additional layer of vision, granted because shadows flee at my approach. Mixed signals, man. Another interesting thing about froggers is that they are the only species in the game that do not move at normal speed and yet have the boot slot available. All of the others (naga, flying kenku, swimming merfolk, felid, spriggan, centaur) have no shoes. This is extremely good for froggers because if you find boots of speed you have cancelled out one of your racial drawbacks entirely. Hopping is very good and at level 13 you complete your two-week programme of Frog Tech and your legs begin literally rippling with muscles, allowing you to hop even further. Here are the changes I would make to froggers. Nobody will like these ideas. Quote these ideas and say "eat poo poo, Mu." to show your disapproval. CAVEAT: I think that by worshipping a God that gives you hiding bonuses and having spells that are long range I softened the drawbacks of the species quite a lot, so although from my perspective their amazing apts and intrinsic escape skill make them really good, this might not really be the case. Plus I found a +10 weapon of speed in the Lair, and boots of running in vaults. lmao who am I kidding, my experience wont be representative of this species at all. Still: I think that froggers should lose the boot slot but gain a dropkick aux attack. I think that froggers should dispel umbras and be unable to turn invisible. I think that shadows should be blasted by disintegration every turn they spend in range of a frogger, and shadow fiends, shadow demons and shadow imps should be dazed by them. I think their apts should be worse across the board. I think they should actually be really good at invoking, but gain piety slowly. I almost died on Tomb:3 with this character, because I pulled everything to the staircase with tornado and chain lightning, and had no negative energy resistance or torment resistance. "No problem," I thought, "I will just stairdance very slowly and hope that my silent tornado will kill things one at a time," and then I went back downstairs and a mummy invoked the power of Zot against me, blinking me off the staircase and confusing me. "No problem," I thought again, less convincingly, "I will just cure the confusion and then hop back onto the staircase," and then I quaffed curing and was blasted by 20 smites, causing me to poo poo out an enormous cloud of smoke courtesy of Dithmenos the God of Stupid Idiots and Hysterical Pranks, obscuring my vision of the staircase, and preventing me from hopping to it. "No problem," I thought, tears now streaming down my gorgeous face, mummies swallowing up the staircase entirely, "I will just teleport around the level with 12hp and hope that I do not die." On my second teleport I landed in one of the loot chambers, and very slowly and carefully cleared it out and healed myself up and then I stepped into an undiscovered teleport trap, because Crawl is like that sometimes.  Dithmenos the God of Moronic Decisions and Casting Spells Twice also likes to do this thing where he mimics your airstrike while you're standing behind an ally, only he mimics it as a beam which hits your ally, and somehow this makes you the rear end in a top hat. This is exactly the kind of poo poo that led to froggers rebelling against the divine in the first place imo. The new mutation system seems VERY generous. I had the poo poo mutated out of me several times over the course of this game, and effortlessly purified my slimy amphibious body with a few potions of mutation, usually ending up with nothing but beneficial mutations as part of the deal. A+++++ I would highly recommend the new mutation system to a friend or relative. Please DO NOT change this. I found a wand of scattershot and it was bad. I found a wand of clouds and didn't zap it. I found a scarf and didn't wear it. I never used any of Dithmenos' active abilities and have no idea what they do. In conclusion .20 is extremely good. Thank you for reading. Annotations 1. Bad Mu. fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 12:32
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I agree with a lot of that. The barachi seem extremely capable, I banged out a quick 4 rune win just trying them out. Kinda hope they don't nerf them too much, I sorta like the idea of different races with variable difficulty.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:34
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Barachi sounds much better than Barachian.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:37
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Mu. posted:
This is a good post and the way all critiques of new content should be written from here on out.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:44
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I haven't had a bad potion of mutation experience in trunk until my Naga 4-runer, in fact. On the descent part of the orb run I got teleportitis from an OoF. The RNG knew exactly what mutation I wanted to get rid of and left teleportitis alone until the sixth and final potion. This confused me because it wipes mutations first, so I expected a completely new mutation set by that point. However, I can follow the rolls the RNG would have taken so it just strikes as absurdly improbable but not impossible.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:46
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I'm glad Mu discovered the secret of Dithmenos. If anyone has not worshipped Dith because they think he just is a sneak god, you've made a mistake.Mu. posted:@: brilliant, agile, berserking (expiring), silence, resistant, tornado, aura of abjuration, flying, regenerating, wreathed by umbra, studying Dodging, deflect missiles, very quick Mu. posted:I found a wand of scattershot and it was bad. I found a wand of clouds and didn't zap it. I found a scarf and didn't wear it. I never used any of Dithmenos' active abilities and have no idea what they do. In conclusion .20 is extremely good. Thank you for reading.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:59
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Darox posted:I tried out the new wand of clouds and was pleasantly surprised. The rod of clouds was stupid garbage that doused your enemies in light mist, the wand of clouds farts out a cone of mephitic gas on demand, except sometimes it freezes people. Undoubtedly they do something different if you learn how to press V good but why do that. Rod of clouds was one (of many) reasons that pak was over powered: a +10 rod frequently would spit out clouds of acid, turning the toughest monsters into mush. With over charge you frequently would get a cone to the ends of your LOS. If you didn't like your cloud you retreat and spit another one out. You needed a pretty heavy evo skill to do that though.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:49
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I always found Pakellas's supercharge best to hold on to till you got in a poo poo fight that managed to drain your Heal Wounds all the way down. Supercharge that fucker and get a fully energized 12 charge Heal Wounds wand. Was the only thing that got me my sole Mummy win.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:14
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