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Saros posted:2 Cav Bde (Now commanded by OTF due to Sandman being AWOL): alright, here's my attempt to make these orders happen. please post at me about them so we can make them better. ill be around for a few hours then i'm out until after the deadline - i'll probably pop back in in like 11 hours but I won't have much time to do anything. ----- ====================== FINAL 2 Cav Bde Orders======================== OK first off, ALL machine guns and artillery: DO NOT MOVE ANYWHERE UNTIL FURTHER ORDERS. keep killing people if you can. Now the cavalry. The rest of the post is in reference to the nine cavalry companies. On Turn 9: The HQ will move ALMOST like this, actually hang back from the western edge an inch or two extra, then stay there unless it becomes unsafe to remain. Please disregard its positioning and lack of an arrow in later images, and please hold it back an inch or two further east than the picture shows:  Firstly, the northernmost cavalry company, hereafter known as cute dog company, met a cute dog who thinks he's a horse, which is actually irrelevant now but i might as well note it. They need to Move to a spot where they're in both the outskirts of town and the Chemin Creux, but do not break base-to-base contact with the MG while you do so. Also, the western company in Billy Bonus contact with the directly-westward-facing MG needs to stay where it is. So those two companies have their own thing going on. As in this image from Saros:  That leaves seven companies. If you're already in the western outskirts, facing the BEF, stay there. Whoever can get into the outskirts without losing the ability to use rifle fire (less than 4" or less than 6", whichever applies), do it, and everybody else move just far enough to the west that you can still use rifle fire if needed. HOWEVER, don't jostle the MGs out of 'able to fire' status and don't block the AH's line of fire. I've included a map of how i think that plays out below. Please understand that it's merely an indication of my thinking, as i know i don't have the right to make trin follow company-by-company arrows. i just think that my thoughts are conveyed more clearly if i draw it this way.  After those moves have occurred, the following conditional applies from this point - including this turn - until further orders are received i.e re-check it every turn if it hasn't already fired: ==BEGIN CONDITIONAL== IF enemy cavalry is spotted within 12" of more than half of these companies THEN the seven cavalry chits IMMEDIATELY CHARGE toward the enemy, along whatever arrow brings them most directly into combat. The idea is for the chits to spend one turn setting up as close to the outskirts as they can get, and then to charge, so unless the enemy is just not meeting this conditional these troops need to be charging on the second turn.  If the enemy retreats, follow them and try to kill their AHs, but don't cross the fords. If new enemies appear within charging range, CHARGE them, but don't charge past the fords. If no enemies are within charging range, move back into position in the outskirts of Stethoscope. ==END CONDITIONAL== (all the MGs and artillery, and cute dog company, and that one cav company Billy Bonusing with the west-facing MG that i didn't name, are unaffected by this conditional. they remain in place and fire on any enemies they see.) If the conditional doesn't fire this turn, the seven companies affected by the conditional use rifle fire from their positions if possible. On Turn 10: Cute dog company does not move at all, now that it's achieved spotting into the Chemin Creux while still maintaining Billy Bonusness and town outskirts protection, and continues shooting enemies when they see them and petting the cute dog, in that order of priority. Hold at all costs, you and your MG friends too. That cav Billy Bonusing with the westward-facing MG also just sits there, helping its MG fire. DO NOT leave the MG in a position where it cannot fire out of the town! The other seven companies are subject to the conditional above. If the conditional doesn't happen, do this: Continue to move as far west in the town as possible and fill out any empty outskirts spaces, taking care to keep your ability to use rifle fire and to not mess with the MGs or AH as described above. If you're already in outskirts position, don't move, though. Everybody shoots people - rifle fire. Standing Orders: When sighting an enemy 12" or less away on Attack stance: keep moving along original path When attacking the enemy: Launch a Bayonet Charge / Cavalry Charge When an enemy company Breaks Off or Retreats Suppressed: Pursue the enemy Break Off automatically when: Fight to the last man Battle Order Formation: 
oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 04:12
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====================ORDERS==================== Bavarian Cavalry Division, 3rd Brigade: Orders for entry on Turn 10  1. Enter the battlefield at the southern road to Da Land in Battle Order (as shown at end of orders), and proceed West along the road and down the hill 2. Continue along the road into Stethoscope CONDITIONAL ORDER If enemy forces were encountered in Stethoscope and defeated, adopt the following Formation and assume a Defensive Stance; ensure all companies are within the town or outskirts. Disregard order 3 and wait for additional orders.  END CONDITIONAL ORDER 3. Leave Stethoscope to the west, and move into Taillis Douche where you should adopt the following Formation and assume a Defensive Stance  Standing Orders When sighting an enemy 12" or less away on Attack stance: Turn and move directly towards enemy When attacking the enemy: Launch a Cavalry Charge When an enemy company Breaks Off or Retreats Suppressed: Pursue the enemy Break Off automatically when: 3/4 casualties are taken Battle Order Formation  ====================END OF ORDERS==================== Here's my concerns as is: If there are any armored cars left and they spot me as I ride past, my entire brigade is going to turn and charge them. Is this good or bad?? Should I be having my brigade adopt that formation in the forest, or should I just have them lurk there in Battle Formation? I'm not sure if ordering them out of the forest would be slowed by reforming, or if that would just be part of the "Change from Defensive to Attack Stance" step. Edit: Somehow only just noticed that Saros ordered me to enter the map in Battle Order and not Marching. Should I switch that over? Edit: Orders adjusted to ensure entry in Battle Order mossyfisk fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 04:43
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nice orders. i'm taking that battle formation it's been brought to my attention that my standing orders will have my guys charge at any number of enemies if they come within 12" of anyone, which negates the conditional that saros gave me. i'm about to go edit my standing orders to not contradict saros' orders. anybody think i should leave them so they contradict his orders?
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Mar 15, 2017 04:58
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so should i peel a cav off the charge to sit in that outskirts/CC spot, remaining in cover and giving us spotting down the sunken road, or is that not how i should read this part of trin's rulepost?https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=470070022 posted:On the right of the map is the Chemin Creux, a sunken road. A company located on the Chemin Creux has spotting and protective cover. how much are we at risk of getting peopl coming down that road just like they came up it earlier? how much does that hurt the chances of winning the charge? also i didn't realize we had some mounted engineers coming on turn 12, are we going to have them build trenches anywhere or anything?
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Mar 15, 2017 05:15
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oystertoadfish posted:also i didn't realize we had some mounted engineers coming on turn 12, are we going to have them build trenches anywhere or anything? or indeed do anything whatsoever
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Mar 15, 2017 05:26
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ok, anybody see anything i should really change in my orders? i'm not going to try to put a company in place to spot down CC, in the end it wasn't in my orders in like 9 hours i should be able to pop in and maybe make some changes real quick if desired, hopefully
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Mar 15, 2017 05:56
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oystertoadfish posted:Orders OK. Pictures, good, we can see your intent. Mechanically, I think we're pretty good, you've ID'd most of the grey areas. I would simplify your charge criteria. We don't know much about charging range or combat mechanics in general, perhaps just go with the distance since you know that'll work. Probably go with "more than half" for your manoeuvre group criteria and try to rework the whole thing into a simple logical flow. Standing orders are reasonable, I don't think that the ford limitation elsewhere will conflict with the pursue standing order, It's pretty clear how you want your unit to behave. If you want a unit looking North up the Chemin de Creux, you'll have to include that in your orders, up to you whether you think it's worth it. ---- Mossyfisk, I think your brigade will deal with any surviving ACs just fine, With an engage standing order they'll get the full force of your support and combat troops. Bigger worry is engaging with an unexpected infantry brigade, but how likely is that? Forming up time for the forest will be minimal. Don't worry about optimising everything, it doesn't work because you don't know what's going to turn up and change things. Call the Div thing intiative from the commander on the ground, eh? Or clarify it with Saros, or just go with his command, your choice.
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Mar 15, 2017 06:00
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great, thanks for that, i'll reword the conditionals for sure if i had one of the charging guys stop at the northern CC/outskirts intersection and stick around instead of charging if he saw anything, would that be workable/worthwhile, do you think? just spotting for one turn, though, if the charge happens - and then possibly after they return from a charge, but probably not
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Mar 15, 2017 06:07
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If anything, move Cutedog company and it's accompanying MG. I guess it doesn't hurt, the only cost is the extra effort and complication of your orders.
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Mar 15, 2017 06:11
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yeah saros wanted me to keep it there but that doesn't seem like a huge contravention of my orders, really. the cost would be what, 2 turns, one moving, one emplacing the gun or whatever? and if they attack in that time with it unspotted we're hosed anyway, i guess. i just edited the conditional to flow better, hopefully, and i actually did an expert photoshop of my image to get one company to that intersection of the outskirts and CC like i/whoever told me to do it, mossyfisk or you or someone, was thinking. but now i'm thinking we should just move the MG and cute dog cav ...would we get hosed by, like, our other MGs all having to stand up and move if one of them does? the way my orders are now i'm assuming that if the cav that's supposed to spot up the CC spots something, it'll abandon the charge and fight the person it spotted. i guess i should say that. ok i just edited it in edit: ok my thought for the night is, do people think it's a good idea to relocate the cute dog cavalry and its adjoining MG to the chemin creux-outskirts nexus? as is, i'll follow my orders but hopefully get spotting for at least one turn. if i'm ordered to change my orders ill do it oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 06:21
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oystertoadfish posted:edit: ok my thought for the night is, do people think it's a good idea to relocate the cute dog cavalry and its adjoining MG to the chemin creux-outskirts nexus? as is, i'll follow my orders but hopefully get spotting for at least one turn. if i'm ordered to change my orders ill do it I don't care whether you move the MG, but I would very very very much like to get eyes on north Chemin Creux. I've got this horrible feeling it's full of armored cars which are about to drive out of that trench and speed across to take our northern bridge at La Dand.
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Mar 15, 2017 12:03
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OTF 1) FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SPECIFY TURN TIMES. Your orders are 'one turn after this is received' and there is no guarantee that they will get them straight away so you could be reshuffling while enemy cav charges. Change the conditional to charge if at any time the enemy cav approach within 12'' not as soon as one turn after the orders are received. 2) Maybe keep your bde HQ back a bit, it could get killed by a hostile cav charge breaking through if you move it where you are. 3) It occurs you might be able to move 6'', the move restriction is so you can still use rifle fire so just specify that. 4) The MG and cav in the north are not going to be able to move and emplace in time to help so leave the MG in place. They can cover the northern approach and if you slide the cav along as shown they might be able to use the billy bonus to shoot around the corner a bit. 5) Set them to hold at all costs, if we lose steth we lose the battle.  Mossyfisk -Enter and remain in combat order the whole time, unless you are moving more than 4 turns in marching order the extra turn re-organising means that moving in marching order is actually slower than combat order. Saros fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 12:40
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PSA from the corps commander: Brigadiers, from now on, follow your division commanders' orders to the letter. We've seen enough of the second guessing and outright contravention and it's gonna get a lot of companies killed, if it doesn't get us run off the board entirely. By all means talk to your division leaders about things you have questions on, but at the end of the day, do what you're told to do.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:05
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Saros posted:OTF got it, let me edit this stuff in real quick
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Mar 15, 2017 15:11
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One more thing, the billy bonus guys in the west need to remain too else the MG cant fire out of town.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:15
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mossyfisk posted:I don't care whether you move the MG, but I would very very very much like to get eyes on north Chemin Creux. After some density of ACs this sorta stops being about WW1 and becomes Gorkamorka. Not that I would complain
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Mar 15, 2017 15:16
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Next time the entire BEF is a whole corps of ACs.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:21
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Saros posted:One more thing, the billy bonus guys in the west need to remain too else the MG cant fire out of town. OK i just edited this in - they need to stay there on all turns? that's how i wrote it right now. I'll come back in like 10 minutes, and then I won't be in until well after the orders are run, so please take one last look and let me know what I should edit. thanks
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Mar 15, 2017 15:24
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Turn 9 orders should be: -The (non billy bonus) 7 cav companies moves to outskirts, checks if more than 50% of them can reach the BEF Cav Bde this turn via charging and if they can they charge. If not sit in the outskirts and use rifle fire. -Turn 10 onwards: always be charging if enemy is within charge range (except the two cav providing billy bonus!). And the bde should be set to never retreat. Saros fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 15:31
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editing standing orders to never retreat. i think the rest is in the orders. and now i'm out. gott mit uns somebody give those drat engineers orders!
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Mar 15, 2017 15:41
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Steinrokkan, your first engineers arrive turn 12. I want them to move to Steth ASAP, the plan will be for them to move to the very southernmost point of the stream and start constructing a bridge. Like this: 
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Mar 15, 2017 15:53
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 Any engineers should follow the road in marching order til they get to the indicated point, about 12 inches away from the north-south road. If no enemy is spotted, begin another marching movement order along the red path. End movement on the road. Having reached the southern junction, leave the road and proceed to the southern map border and build a bridge across the creek. If enemy is spotted at any point after Steth, retreat to Steth. If enemy id spotted before Steth, wait. 
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 17:05
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Flesnolk posted:Next time the entire BEF is a whole corps of ACs. That's a strange way to spell Mark I
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Mar 15, 2017 17:05
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steinrokkan posted:
This begs the question, what do they do if an enemy is spotted.
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Mar 15, 2017 17:45
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Truth, just have them move to Steth for now we don't want to risk them in the open. Maybe have them start digging entrenchments in the sunken road to the south of Steth if the area is cleared of baddies.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:17
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Yeah that is not the type of asset you want bumbling off into the unknown on their lonesome.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:22
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 The adjudication begins...I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the standing orders for an engineer brigade should be, but for now you can rest assured that they will behave sensibly if they encounter enemies.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:37
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Oh boy here we go.
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Mar 15, 2017 19:27
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Trin Tragula posted:
If, he says...
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Mar 15, 2017 20:37
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I mean, as far as I know there are only two engineer chits in the game, so there's only so much I can do with them. They are ordered to run away from danger, and either they die, or not
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Mar 15, 2017 20:41
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Turn 9: 1200 British initiative Let's deal with 2nd Brigade. Since OTF took it over at short notice I'm affording him considerable leeway; his orders as written were illegal, since his brigade had switched to Defend stance and all companies are required to move when switching back to Attack. This is what we ended up with.  I allowed two companies to straight-up swap positions, which I would not ordinarily do, to preserve the Billy Bonus; shoved as many rifle companies forward into the Outskirts as would fit; and the rest are stuck in a traffic jam inside the town, trying but unable to fill the space. All rifle companies are eligible for rifle fire. This cavalry charge, however, is considerably easier to adjudicate...  Was this a lucky shot, or excellent marksmanship? Either way, this company is able to see down the sunken road and take the shot.  Your cavalry charge is repelled, but the southern ACs suffer badly under your own arse hortillery and machine-gun fire.  And you get the better of an exchange of fire west of Stethoscope, although the enemy looks like they're readying to charge...  Turn 10: 1230 British initiative The remaining southern AC tries to flee; you suppress it and the cavalry, closing to combat, cannot fail to kill a suppressed company. The northern AC successfully retires down the road in good order.  You're then charged in Stethoscope. Five enemy companies survive to contact as your machine-guns fire high, and they pay the price; no kills, but five companies are retreating suppressed.  (A few turns later, I realised that you wanted to bring the 3rd Brigade on in Battle Order, and did a great deal of swearing; its movement for now will be represented by a red marker chit in place of its middle forward company.)  Turn 11: 1300 German initiative On the one hand, five companies of the 2nd are retreating suppressed; on the other, four companies of the 1st are charging.  MG fire kills the charge's target, and the brigade command chit has enough movement left to make it up to the suppressed companies north of it!  There are a *lot* of dead companies by the time the charges are resolved. Another MG is booted out of Stethoscope, and then that one surviving British cav company wreaks absolute havoc in the Outskirts.  Turn 12: 1330 British initiative This whole "charging a machine-gun" malarkey doesn't seem such a bad idea, so four of your companies try it out.  The disembodied 3rd continues moving up.  Engineering!  Your men east of Stethoscope hear the reassuring sound of a scout plane flying overhead as they try to un-gently caress themselves.  This probably isn't going to end well.  And we're now halfway through the update, so here's the full map. (The 3rd Brigade, irritatingly, is in the wrong place and formation.)  Yeah, so you know what else didn't end well? Charging that machine gun. It scored a kill, the kill forced you to make a morale check, and inevitably, the 1st Brigade routs. Turn 13: 1400 German initiative This at least has the happy effect of speeding the adjudications up...but now it's time for volume 2 of "Times We Don't Want To Get Initiative".  Those men moved round the Outskirts, in cover. Your stationary units took their firing turns, and saw nothing to shoot at. Then they got shot in the dick.  In happier news, the offending machine-gun from last turn boldly waltzes up to Stethoscope, and the one surviving 2nd Brigade company shoots it right the gently caress down. Turn 14: 1430 German initiative Oh great, you won initiative again. Same poo poo, different turn.  Help is on the way, but it's too late to keep the 2nd Brigade in their positions; they make a morale check and fail, although only badly enough to have to retreat suppressed. They're still in the game.  Turn 15: 1500 German initiative The inquest begins into whose fault this all was.  The 3rd is overtaken by their engineers as that one company of the 2nd flees in a completely different direction to everyone else.  Turn 16: 1530 German initiative You continue approaching Stethoscope.   And that's all she wrote. Overview:  As General Flesnolk attempts to digest all this, another runner arrives. This one has the scout plane's report. I remind you that this is what he saw on Turn 12.  Well, isn't that interesting. The next soft deadline is 5pm, Friday 17th March.And now, there is more news for General Flesnolk. This is from the infantry. They're making good time and are still planned to enter at midday tomorrow, but you think that they might be able to arrive sooner, for a price... You may now order the infantry to speed its approach. At the cost of their brigades arriving on the field with 1 fatigue point, they will all enter the field between 0800 and 1200 tomorrow morning, starting on Turn 49. At the cost of their brigades arriving on the field with 2 fatigue points (enough to affect their performance), they will all enter the field during the hours of darkness, starting on Turn 25. You are also informed that there are about 8 ordinary companies' worth (and two machine guns) of reinforcements available for attachment to any cavalry brigade whose command chit is still alive at 0800 tomorrow.
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Mar 15, 2017 23:49
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I can't tell if my thoughts about not charging were correct, or if our atrocious display of MG gunnery meant wed have been in trouble any which way. In short, welp. Edit: For slightly more content, this is close to our worst case scenario - mass casualties, repulsed from the first objective, and now the British have the advantage of cover and nothing but time to delay. Thoughts? sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 23:55
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Well baring them getting reinforced real fast it shouldn't be to hard to take back. And once again i'm knocked out of the game.
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Mar 15, 2017 23:56
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Overall now that I've seen them in action I doubt that this armored vehicle fad is going to catch on
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Mar 16, 2017 00:35
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Trin Tragula posted:NEW RULES: Fatigue Trin Tragula posted:You may now order the infantry to speed its approach. At the cost of their brigades arriving on the field with 1 fatigue point, they will all enter the field between 0800 and 1200 tomorrow morning, starting on Turn 49. At the cost of their brigades arriving on the field with 2 fatigue points (enough to affect their performance), they will all enter the field during the hours of darkness, starting on Turn 25. Since fatigue resets at 8, we can bring in the infantry in earlier for the same fatigue cost as bringing them in at dawn if we make sure they don't shoot. It would give us better positioning or more solid defenses. It seems absolutely worth it to get forces in place faster.
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Mar 16, 2017 00:40
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Agreed, we need more men and we need them now. If we do break stethoscope, my best case scenario is that we've seen everything the Allies have to offer at the moment - one full brigade of cavalry, two AC detachments, and the engineers we now see fortifying the ford. As such a forced March might get us back on track for daybreak.
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Mar 16, 2017 00:44
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Okay so here we are. Spotted enemies: 1 Bde Cav 10x AC 2x Cav Eng Survivors: 3x AC (2 south 1 north) 1 Cav Bde remnant [AH + 3Cav + BC] 2x Cav Eng Maybe 2x more Cav Bde? British 1914 Cav divisions mostly had 3 cavalry Bde so I expect another 2 to roll in at some point. --- We have: 3rd Bde (Fresh) 4th Bde (Arriving in 4? turns) 2x Cav Eng 2 Bde remnants [BC + AH + MG +3xCav] 3 Bde is in position to push the enemy out of Steth. I think we can retake Stethoscope with 3 Bde but we will likely end up facing fresh troops very soon. We are deciding what to do about that but it's late here so anything will have to wait for morning. All Cav Brigade and Eng commanders please try to check in and make time for orders tomorrow so we are not so extremely rushed this time.
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Mar 16, 2017 00:56
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That charge against us in Steth, you said our machine guns whiffed but did the rifles cause any suppression and or kills or did our mass fire just do nothing at all?
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Mar 16, 2017 00:57
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I'm in class right now, hold on this so I can get home and assess the situation.
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Mar 16, 2017 00:57
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They're likely reinforcing as fast as we are.
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Mar 16, 2017 00:59
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