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Grand Prize Winner posted:I thought it came from looking at armies on the grand campaign screen. It's me, I'm the johnny-come-lately The link to physical stacks of chits is why most games show army strength in a vertical bar rather than a horizontal one. It's because the height of the stack of chits was a loose estimate of how strong it was, which carried over through several iterations of computer games.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:04
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Chomp8645 posted:I don't mean their composition. I mean the fact they endlessly send huge numbers of stacks to every corner of your empire until the end of the game. They aren't hard to beat but they never stop pestering you on the strategic map while at the same time they are incredibly time consuming and tedious to remove. Im a big fan of mods that give the Norsca factions access to some of the lower tier Chaos units. It makes them less annoying to fight since their armies tend to become less one dimensional armies of chaff and it reduces the number of stacks they field since the chaos units are more expensive. I'm a fan of mods that give Chaos access to some beastmen units for similar reasons. Some lightly armored fast vanguard Beastmen units make fighting Chaos less a predictable matter of stacking as much armor piercing as possible.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:04
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Does anyone remember SAD? It meant either shooty arm of doom or skaven army of doom depending on who you asked and was one of the top tier broken armies, in like 2003. Slave spam backed up with big guns.
vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 18:14
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DreamShipWrecked posted:I'm getting back into this game and having a good time with the wood elves, they really speak to my cowardice and general love of archers. I really need to learn to play the Orcs better or how to tech them faster though because every time I play the greenskins I just end up getting my poo poo pushed in by the Dwarven doomstack. It doesn't matter if you're an experienced greenskin player. Thorgrim is literally 2 turns north of you and likes to remind you about some grudges he needs to resolve by pushing your poo poo in with 19 of his best units in turn 1. He constantly respawns, usually with a full retinue, and will be hounding your Waaagh! until the entire Dwarves faction is destroyed. Game is easy after that. You will be nearly untouched by the Chaos raids when Archaon marches.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:18
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vintagepurple posted:Slave spam backed up with big guns. I know there's four different Skaven clans and all but I really hope CA includes enough of the ranged units to let Skaven be a viable gunline race. Big nasty guns and bombs and mortars and magic with infantry that only exists to keep everyone busy and prevent them from getting to your important units. Basically I just want to be able to play Fall of the Samurai 2: But They're Rats This Time
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Mar 15, 2017 20:00
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Aside from dumpy knives & whatever they scrape off the battlefield, I hope all halfway decent Skaven units have a "Backfire" trait that means they kill themselves, each other, or everyone around them just by existing on the field long enough.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:28
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Lunethex posted:Aside from dumpy knives & whatever they scrape off the battlefield, I hope all halfway decent Skaven units have a "Backfire" trait that means they kill themselves, each other, or everyone around them just by existing on the field long enough. I wouldn't mind having backfire effects but it'd be better for gameplay balance if it was, like in FOTS, hidden behind an active skill button so its a choice the player makes for rewards vs risks.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:41
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I just envision hordes of rats engaged with men and dwarfs and then a rat decides, maybe on his siege engine or with his gun or other AoE attack, I'm gonna fight there too. Then he rolls up and explodes, sending everyone flying away. Bonus points for chatter & banter about these active & dynamic events.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:46
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Gejnor posted:I wouldn't mind having backfire effects but it'd be better for gameplay balance if it was, like in FOTS, hidden behind an active skill button so its a choice the player makes for rewards vs risks. That'd be fine so long as most of them float around 60/40, and are big rewards vs big risks.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:46
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Rip_Van_Winkle posted:I know there's four different Skaven clans and all but I really hope CA includes enough of the ranged units to let Skaven be a viable gunline race. Big nasty guns and bombs and mortars and magic with infantry that only exists to keep everyone busy and prevent them from getting to your important units. Skaven have never been a gunline army on the tabletop, though. They're a horde army that has some neat toys to support the meat grinder (or just fire into it). Dwarves and to a lesser extent the Empire are the gunline armies on the tabletop.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:47
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Norscans are the worst. Just bring anti-large, armor-piercing things. They'll only bring chariots anyways so just bring 15 halberds and 5 handgunners, and roll your eyes a bunch when their chariots knock guys left and right for 30 minutes in the battle. I'd like the Norscans more if they had a lot of unarmored dudes to fight and were all about high-casualty warfare, sort of like the greenskins. Make the average tribesman expendable, with very low defense but very high attack and charge and health. Force a faction-wide limit on chariots to 2. Force a faction-wide limit to mounted ranged units to 2. Give them monsters and demons like chaos spawn that can charge in behind infantry. Alternatively, just remove GODDAMN CHARIOTS AND HORSIES. Dogs are more than sufficient for loving up ranged units.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:50
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Yeah, in a lot of ways Skaven play like VC more than anything. Tons of disposable chaff backed up by a mix of good specialty units with things like their war machines, Rat ogres etc.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:51
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how do you make a horde skaven army different from vamp counts (never breaking) or orcs (high casualties high damage)? about the only thing i can think of to accurately reflect 'em is to make their units half as good but twice the size of everyone else Inexplicable Humblebrag fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 20:51
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Grand Prize Winner posted:That'd be fine so long as most of them float around 60/40, and are big rewards vs big risks. that doesn't sound fun to play with or against though? ooh boy hope I get this coinflip, love to flip coins
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Mar 15, 2017 20:54
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Lunethex posted:I just envision hordes of rats engaged with men and dwarfs and then a rat decides, maybe on his siege engine or with his gun or other AoE attack, I'm gonna fight there too. Then he rolls up and explodes, sending everyone flying away. Bonus points for chatter & banter about these active & dynamic events. That sounds incredibly unenjoyable from a game play perspective
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Mar 15, 2017 20:57
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:how do you make a horde skaven army different from tomb kings (never breaking) or orcs (high casualties high damage)? Disproportionately large unit sizes, so like 200 for slaves, 180 for Clan Rats, and so on down the line. Make slaves peasant mob cheap but with different downsides. Then have half the roster genuinely expendable- routing units don't affect the rest of the army, and individually they'll route pretty quickly but this won't easily cause a chain route of the entire army unless it was the valuable stuff dying. So you just bog down your opponents with hordes of rat men draining their stamina so that elite units can finish them off.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:57
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:how do you make a horde skaven army different from tomb kings (never breaking) or orcs (high casualties high damage)? I'd say more like the concept of the welves than anything else where the army is divided into two groups: the cheap but weak chaff, and the expensive but powerful monsters and big guns and you probably want to have some of both. Tomb Kings, going by their tabletop, are going to be pretty different in that they're likely to emphasize cavalry and chariots backing up the slow and weak but unbreakable chaff and with bad-to-mediocre ranged support and monsters that can appear in the middle of enemy back ranks. If High Queen Khalida is a LL for them, which she very likely will be, her gimmick will be turning the Tomb Kings' iffy ranged prowess into actually really good ranged power. Tomb Kings weaknesses will likely involve most of their units not actually hitting very hard, and relying heavily on hero/mage units to keep things going when said heroes aren't all that good and vulnerable to enemy heroes and lords. Your typical tomb prince is valuable for his buffs and doesn't want to be anywhere near a thane or vampire.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:57
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Cythereal posted:Skaven have never been a gunline army on the tabletop, though. They're a horde army that has some neat toys to support the meat grinder (or just fire into it). Dwarves and to a lesser extent the Empire are the gunline armies on the tabletop. Weeell, technically you're correct of course, but there was a time when they got a new brand army book with extremely effective jezzails, rat gatlings and magic with cheap damaging spells amd basically obliterated the enemy at range while throwing slave rats at the enemy. The author of said army book even aplogized for writing such an op army. A really fun time for Skaven players though.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:58
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:how do you make a horde skaven army different from tomb kings (never breaking) or orcs (high casualties high damage)? Tinker with the morale modifiers to make individual units less likely to run, but make the army as a whole prone to chain routing once a sufficient number of rats are afraid. I dunno, give skaven troops a "musk of fear" modifier that lowers morale of nearby friendly units once they start wavering or something like that. The expendable units would be goblin-like to a degree, with the elites resembling dwarves specialist squads. Add in a lot of infiltration, stealth, and dirty tricks that can backfire, and you have an army that is capable of overwhelming and murdering an unprepared enemy with infinite rat bullshit, but is always at risk chain routing if things go wrong in just the right way, allowing the player to snag defeat from the jaws of victory through hubris.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:58
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Angry Lobster posted:Weeell, technically you're correct of course, but there was a time when they got a new brand army book with extremely effective jezzails, rat gatlings and magic with cheap damaging spells amd basically obliterated the enemy at range while throwing slave rats at the enemy. The author of said army book even aplogized for writing such an op army. A really fun time for Skaven players though. And I think that style of army in this game is covered pretty well by the dwarfs and Empire already so I don't see the skaven going that route. Then again, I never personally got the appeal of skaven and wouldn't miss them if they were never added to the game in general. So I'm not the best person to ask about them.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:00
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yeah, accidentally put tomb kings instead of vamp counts. i was thinking zombie tarpit units which can't kill anything vs orc boys which are cheap and damaging but die a lot and rout easy vs proposed clanrat units which, fluffwise, shouldn't really fit either archetype (i.e. poo poo AND cowardly) but should still be massed i really fuckin' hope they don't do "oh the rats can afford two stacks for every one of yours" because that would just be criminally unfun. may as well give them big rat chariots. i still think Panfilo posted:Disproportionately large unit sizes is the only real sensible option, but then it fucks people who are scraping the minimum game spec
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Mar 15, 2017 21:09
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You could easily play around with stuff like skaven units having poo poo leadership but giving a leadership bonus to other units of the same kind, so if you're running 6 lovely rat units in your stack all of a sudden they become a significant threat. You could do a similar thing by making each Skaven army give a buff to each Skaven army that supports it in a battle, so the concept would basically be that quantity over quality actually leads to quality.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:27
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Cythereal posted:And I think that style of army in this game is covered pretty well by the dwarfs and Empire already so I don't see the skaven going that route. Agreed, never really liked when they tried to focus the skaven in one clan/aspect. botany posted:You could easily play around with stuff like skaven units having poo poo leadership but giving a leadership bonus to other units of the same kind, so if you're running 6 lovely rat units in your stack all of a sudden they become a significant threat. You could do a similar thing by making each Skaven army give a buff to each Skaven army that supports it in a battle, so the concept would basically be that quantity over quality actually leads to quality. Maybe just tweak their leadership number a bit, give them a mid-to-high base leadership, make the leadership bonuses for nearby friendlies and outnumbering the enemy higher, and consequently increase the leadership penalties for casualties suffered, being flanked and attacked in the rear much bigger. Also remove the morale penalty for suffering friendly fire.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:32
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:yeah, accidentally put tomb kings instead of vamp counts. i was thinking zombie tarpit units which can't kill anything vs orc boys which are cheap and damaging but die a lot and rout easy vs proposed clanrat units which, fluffwise, shouldn't really fit either archetype (i.e. poo poo AND cowardly) but should still be massed So, in short, your specialist skaven have poo poo morale that need the slaves around to avoid routing, and the slaves need the specialist skaven around to avoid routing and to do the killing. At first they'd be morale-buffing gobbos who don't chain rout, and then eventually they'd get some burst killing ability coupled with self-harm options. e: Beaten to the "morale-buffing" idea. drat. vvvvv That too. Skavenslaves not causing chain routs is important for them actually being "expendable" and this would let you properly tarpit and fire into the crowd. vvvv Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 21:39
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Angry Lobster posted:Agreed, never really liked when they tried to focus the skaven in one clan/aspect. Also make it so that your artillery and ranged units are never blocked, ever, and will just keep firing no matter who's in the way! Mordja fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 21:40
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Mordja posted:Also make it so that your artillery ranged units are never blocked, ever, and will just keep firing no matter who's in the way! I'm down with this. Take away the friendly-fire penalty and you've got yourself a unique rat army.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:45
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Broguts posted:Is this a cheeky Gitmo joke because Slaanesh is also the God of Torture? Nah, not really, soldiers just like porn and loving a lot.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:45
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Did CA recently fix some code thing that allowed units to go over a number of troops that had previously caused crashes? I'm daring to dream that this is because the lowest-tier Skaven units will be massive hordes of chaff and this was a necessary fix to make them work.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:55
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toasterwarrior posted:Nah, not really, soldiers just like porn and loving a lot. Who doesnt
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Mar 15, 2017 22:24
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Do the sylvania cities always have vampire corrupted populace, or was I supposed to burn the cities before recolonizing them? Playing Empire this round and wiped out the vampires but the area is still all corrupted.
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Mar 15, 2017 22:27
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it will stay corrupted for ages, but will slowly revert back over time. counter on the city hotbar will tell you the percentage corruption stick heros or lords in the province to hasten this process
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Mar 15, 2017 22:29
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Indecisive posted:Do the sylvania cities always have vampire corrupted populace, or was I supposed to burn the cities before recolonizing them? Playing Empire this round and wiped out the vampires but the area is still all corrupted. Populace modifiers are permanent, Sylvania is cursed. You need to build temples to counter the innate corruption.
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Mar 15, 2017 22:30
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Temples of sigmar will eventually turn the land back. Build those asap
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Mar 15, 2017 22:44
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Preach the good word of Sigmar and they'll eventually see the light. I had a Warrior Priest and blue-specced Lord permanently camped in that area.
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Mar 15, 2017 23:10
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Ammanas posted:Temples of sigmar will eventually turn the land back. Build those asap Should be Temples of Morr but 
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Mar 16, 2017 00:14
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TheHoosier posted:Preach the good word of Sigmar and they'll eventually see the light. I had a Warrior Priest and blue-specced Lord permanently camped in that area. Same. Blue-focused leader with Arch Lector and -corruption items.
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Mar 16, 2017 01:58
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Ogres are amazing because their magic literally works by eating stuff and that giving dudes effects. Stuff like bonecruncher which has you eat bones that cause your opposing foes bones to break, troll guts that gives your dudes regeneration. Or you can summon The Great Maw to devour your enemies directly. Ogres own.
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Mar 16, 2017 03:20
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Maybe their campaign objectives are to just eat different races and when they eat a race they get a special benefit. Eat Altdorf, get bonus income. Eat Drakenhoff, get regeneration.
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Mar 16, 2017 03:48
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Losers' bracket update: RipVanWinkle vs Softnum Game 1: Chaos (RipVanWinkle) Vs Bretonnia (Softnum) Winner: RipVanWinkle Game 2: Empire (RipVanWinkle) Vs Greenskins (Softnum) Winner: Softnum Game 3: Dwarfs (RipVanWinkle) Vs Wood Elves (Softnum) Winner: RipVanWinkle Results: RipVanWinkle 2 - Softnum 1 Good-ish games, at least insofar as we are both very new to multiplayer, so if you want some slapfights here y'go.
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Mar 16, 2017 04:01
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jokes posted:Maybe their campaign objectives are to just eat different races and when they eat a race they get a special benefit. Eat Altdorf, get bonus income. Eat Drakenhoff, get regeneration. I hope they have a mercenary system where you run a horde army and generate income by attacking other factions in proxy wars for cash.
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