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I can believe this whole traitor business being a problem. I remember the stupid social maneuvering that went on in the playground, and anyone who's played Mafia or a derivative knows it's more fun to be the traitor. An unguided, mildly violent group activity with eleven year olds descending into chaos seems completely reasonable. However, the writer seems to seriously think this scales to adults. In the books there's a sense that Voldemort is the Trump of his time, exploiting racial tensions that a vocal minority loudly trumpet and a quiet majority secretly agree with. In this fic it's just "Everyone is stupid except me."
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Mar 11, 2017 19:09
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Yeah, that's part of the thing. Voldy is not an external enemy. He's not a random phenomenon. Hell, Grundewald is not a random phenomenon.
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Mar 11, 2017 19:39
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Xander77 posted:This is doubly annoying because I'm one of the "oh man, that loving snitch" people, and seeing it discussed iwith such... conviction... by Harriezer makes me feel bad. Added Space posted:However, the writer seems to seriously think this scales to adults. In the books there's a sense that Voldemort is the Trump of his time, exploiting racial tensions that a vocal minority loudly trumpet and a quiet majority secretly agree with. In this fic it's just "Everyone is stupid except me."
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Mar 12, 2017 03:12
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Tiggum posted:Yudkowsky hating Quidditch and wanting to "fix" it is just another example of him not understanding why Rowling made the decisions she did and thinking he knows better. It's clearly a parody of sports with arbitrary or silly rules, taken to an extreme because wizard society loves complexity and arcana. So Yud missed the practical purpose (to give the hero something to do in a match) and the point of the joke.
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Mar 12, 2017 03:31
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Tiggum posted:And in terms of the plot, it's obviously just there to reduce a team conflict to an individual conflict so that Harry can be the winner, which is why Quidditch is cancelled in Goblet of Fire - Harry's already got his own contest so there's no need for it.
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Mar 12, 2017 13:35
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Edit: wrong thread
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Mar 12, 2017 13:51
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Xander77 posted:Yeah. But that doesn't make it believable in-universe. Furthermore (I'd say I'm ashamed to know this, but I'd be lying) someone catching the snitch yet not winning the game is a freak occurrence by professional league standards as well. Well yeah, because you don't catch it if it would make you lose. If your team's behind, your goal as seeker is to play defence against the opposing seeker. There's no time limit on a game, so unless you're ridiculously outclassed you're always going to hope to catch up on goals and catch the snitch later.
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Mar 12, 2017 14:46
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Yeah, Krum only did it in that one case because he knew they were so outmatched in chasing that they'd never catch up and he wanted to go out on his own terms.
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Mar 12, 2017 15:27
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Xander77 posted:Yeah. But that doesn't make it believable in-universe. Furthermore (I'd say I'm ashamed to know this, but I'd be lying) someone catching the snitch yet not winning the game is a freak occurrence by professional league standards as well. The snitch makes a lot more sense in a professional league where three things are true: 1. There are a lot of games. 2. Most of those games are high-scoring compared to the ones Harry plays in at Hogwarts because the snitch is set to a higher difficulty or something. 3. Overall points across the league is what matters, not win-loss. (This is how the Hogwarts league works, too.) Under those conditions, the snitch is more like a nice bonus or a way to deny your opponents further score-racking.
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Mar 12, 2017 15:28
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Tiggum posted:And in terms of the plot, it's obviously just there to reduce a team conflict to an individual conflict so that Harry can be the winner [..] Yudkowsky hating Quidditch and wanting to "fix" it is just another example of him not understanding why Rowling made the decisions she did and thinking he knows better. Doctor Spaceman posted:So Yud missed the practical purpose (to give the hero something to do in a match) and the point of the joke. Nah, Yud's well aware of the Snitch's narrative purpose: Chapter 7 posted:And then whichever Seeker gets lucky swoops in and grabs the Snitch and makes everyone else's work moot. It's like someone took a real game and grafted on this pointless extra position so that you could be the Most Important Player without needing to really get involved or learn the rest of it.
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Mar 12, 2017 18:12
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Jazerus posted:The snitch makes a lot more sense in a professional league where three things are true: Right. Somebody put a killswitch on fantasy cricket-rugby-footie-field hockey to avoid games that drag on for days or weeks.
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Mar 13, 2017 00:16
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NihilCredo posted:Nah, Yud's well aware of the Snitch's narrative purpose: But he didn't think it through beyond that most obvious surface detail. Yes, the position exists so that Harry can be the most important player, but he hasn't thought about why professional games would last for days - it's to make it so that the seeker doesn't automatically win the game. If you take the different parts in isolation, it sounds dumb. But if you look at it all then you notice that Rowling actually noticed and addressed some of the obvious criticisms like that. It's actually pretty similar to cricket. A game among kids will last an afternoon and can easily be swung by a couple of particularly good players, whereas a professional test match lasts a week and the players all have their specialisations and value to the team.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:22
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I'm 99% sure it's 'canon' (or at least an in-universe fairy tale) that the Snitch was added to the game because some duke's idiot son wanted to play Quidditch but couldn't actually play the game, so they added an extra role for him. unless i'm remembering that from MoR itself, haha Rowling was aware of how dumb Quidditch is, is what I'm saying. Which is more than i can say for some other topics (like the bit where slavery is a-ok in harry potter because the slaves are magically programmed to be happy, what the gently caress rowling).
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Mar 13, 2017 05:46
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If I remember from having read Quidditch Through the Ages over a decade ago, it started with just trying to catch the Snitch and they added all the other stuff later. And since wizards in Harry Potter are staunch traditionalists, it was never changed.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:56
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Stanfield posted:If I remember from having read Quidditch Through the Ages over a decade ago, it started with just trying to catch the Snitch and they added all the other stuff later. And since wizards in Harry Potter are staunch traditionalists, it was never changed. I mean this sincerely: One of the most charming things about the wizards of Harry Potter is that they are incredible dumbasses. Just endless bumbling and shuffling into fascist regimes and all.
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Mar 13, 2017 05:59
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Pvt.Scott posted:Right. Somebody put a killswitch on fantasy cricket-rugby-footie-field hockey to avoid games that drag on for days or weeks. Yeah, and people criticizing quidditch for having dumb rules for how long it goes... wasn't there that tennis championship where the final match lasted three days?
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Mar 13, 2017 06:00
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Quidditch: surprisingly, less stupid than it looks.
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Mar 13, 2017 06:10
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Tunicate posted:Yeah, and people criticizing quidditch for having dumb rules for how long it goes... wasn't there that tennis championship where the final match lasted three days?
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Mar 13, 2017 08:06
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Is Harriezzer actually so dumb that he doesn't understand that gravity still works underwater, or is Yud just not going to bother with it in his rush to ape Card? If he thinks through his so called 'work on AI' as well as his writing, no wonder he's effectively progressed backwards over the years.ungulateman posted:I'm 99% sure it's 'canon' (or at least an in-universe fairy tale) that the Snitch was added to the game because some duke's idiot son wanted to play Quidditch but couldn't actually play the game, so they added an extra role for him. unless i'm remembering that from MoR itself, haha That bit's actually taken from real-world mythology for the most part. House Elves are straight up Brownies out of English and Scots folklore. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 09:04
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Stanfield posted:If I remember from having read Quidditch Through the Ages over a decade ago, it started with just trying to catch the Snitch and they added all the other stuff later. And since wizards in Harry Potter are staunch traditionalists, it was never changed. The other stuff gave you something to watch if the chasers were loving off in the clouds or something was my understanding.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:11
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Quidditch having reasons for the rules doesn't necessarily really mean that those reasons are altogether suitable for an amateur setting... AKA the setting where he was saying they should play without it.
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Mar 14, 2017 05:05
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Yeah this is one of em "he's got a point but he's a smug douchebag so gently caress him" situations. Would quidditch be 'better' if you changed how scoring and the snitch worked? Probably. But Elizarry's position has always been "gently caress sports and jocks and dumb stupid wizards who aren't smart or rational", and trying to pass it off as 'bringing people together' rings hollow. Even his reasoning in his wish is "y'all are just to stupid to realize how dumb you are" (and then there's a riot because that's what dumb jocks and sheeple do). He makes no effort to actually understand or engage with the sport or its history. Much like many other aspects of MoR, its just him spitefully and smugly (smitefully? spugly?) pointing out the flaws in a children's novel.
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Mar 14, 2017 05:29
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Harriezer sighed as he drew his hanzo steel wit and forthwith smugly + righteously slew the Dumb Jock Religion of Sport, and everyone stood up and clapped. And that child... was Albert Einsteildemort
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Mar 14, 2017 05:50
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Professional sports probably shouldn't be taken as seriously as they are, but sports in general (and other types of physical play) are social physical activities that are great for building teamwork, camaraderie, strength and skill. What's irrational about that?
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Mar 14, 2017 07:27
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Pvt.Scott posted:Professional sports probably shouldn't be taken as seriously as they are, but sports in general (and other types of physical play) are social physical activities that are great for building teamwork, camaraderie, strength and skill. What's irrational about that?
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Mar 14, 2017 08:27
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Pvt.Scott posted:Professional sports probably shouldn't be taken as seriously as they are, but sports in general (and other types of physical play) are social physical activities that are great for building teamwork, camaraderie, strength and skill. What's irrational about that? Nothing except that Yudkowsky wasn't good at them, so obviously they are pointless distractions
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Mar 14, 2017 09:02
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Is Quidditch even mandatory at Hogwarts? We never even hear about broomstick practice after the first lesson thanks to Harry getting scouted for the team so early.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:17
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Dabir posted:Is Quidditch even mandatory at Hogwarts? We never even hear about broomstick practice after the first lesson thanks to Harry getting scouted for the team so early. Quidditch isn't (only a small fraction of the students actually play for one of the house teams), but learning to fly a broom is as that's considered a basic skill in wizard life.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:51
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Xander77 posted:In high school, mandatory physical activity has a crucial function in policing perceived adherence to social masculinity standards. We're on the internet, so maybe our perception is skewed towards nerd complaining about dumb jocks, and we've been entirely desensitized to the idea of "nerd persecution", particularly when carried over into real adult life, but... it's very much a thing. I went to a couple small high schools with surprisingly good students. If anything, the jocks encouraged my flabby, nerdy rear end during weightlifting and running. They didn't hang out with me, but that's a social thing. I did get poo poo and harassment from stoners of all people during 8th grade PE. They even threw rocks at me.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:29
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Chapter 35: Coordination Problems, Pt 3 Quirrell calls Harry into his office and gives him the riot act about messing up Quirrell's poo poo without a warning (apparently a Slytherin no-no) and possibly losing his chance to have magical Britain pledge its allegiance to him: quote:It was very hard for Harry to control his breathing. "Professor Quirrell, I said a good deal less than I wished to say, but I had to say something. Your proposals are extremely alarming to anyone who has the slightest familiarity with Muggle history over the last century. The Italian fascists, some very nasty people, got their name from the fasces, a bundle of rods bound together to symbolize the idea that unity is strength -" 1. I'm fairly sure that a mischaracterization of the war against Voldermort. It was not between a handful of 2. Harriezer kinda acknowledges this with him desire to to give Quirrell a read of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", but IRL democratic governments were far more effective that despotic ones, for obvious reasons, so even if we took Yud's / Quirrel's characterization of evens in the HPMOR universe at face value, we'd still be going up against historical / scientific consensus. (Not even touching upon how fundamentally absurd the implied correlation between "good at magic" and "good leader" Quirrell is suggesting is) 3. Yes, you heard me. I'd wager a guess that Yud doesn't really consider poli-sci / philosophy to be "real" science, what with no room for Bayesian analysis, but it would do him some good to read Locke / Voltaire / anyone who explain how much of an oxymoron a "benevolent dictator" is, and how things simply cannot work well even if you have a magnificently wise and utterly well intentioned man as a tyrant. quote:"I am no friend of Albus Dumbledore," said Harry, a cold in his voice to match Professor Quirrell's. "But he is no child, and he did not seem to think my concerns were childish, nor that I should have waited to speak them." quote:"I am no friend of Albus Dumbledore," said Harry, a cold in his voice to match Professor Quirrell's. "But he is no child, and he did not seem to think my concerns were childish, nor that I should have waited to speak them." Here's an aside. I'm re-reading my Strugatsky brothers collection for the whatever time. Some of my favorite sci-fi writers, insofar as they are capable of writing characters and dialog, and not merely situations and themes. One of their earliest works, Space Apprentice, is still a bit shallow and juvenile, but it has some solid stuff in it. Specifically, it starts out with the titular apprentice making an utter fool of himself, by revealing (shock and horror) that you probably don't have a very well developed ideology / outlook at the ripe old age of 16. The narrative deals (in part) with what Yuri learns during his apprenticeship and how he develops as a person. Kinda of a given for most genres, but relatively rare in sci-fi fiction, much less the sort of fiction Yud would read (unless, of course, we're talking about embracing the Hero's Journey as a prescriptive Holy Bible, which... not quite what I mean). Anyways, I dislike Harriezer as a fully-formed Bayesian superman at the age of 11, and being actually tempted by power as an Evil Overlord and having to overcome it might make for interesting character development (if it isn't dropped like every other blah blah blah). As the founder of a cult, Yud is surely familiar with the temptations of power and the various excuses for grabbing it. Thing is, you'd kinda have to explain to the reader why Quirrell's arguments are persuasive to Harriezer but generally shallow bullshit, which... doesn't really happen. Meanwhile: quote:"Blaise Zabini," said the Defense Professor, straightening; his eyes were set like dark stones within his face, and his voice sent a shiver of fear down Blaise's spine. quote:" There was a strange and complicated plot, which you should have realized was uncharacteristic of the young Slytherin you faced. But there is a person in this school who deals in plots that elaborate, and his name is not Zabini. And I did warn you that there was a quadruple agent; you knew that Zabini was at least a triple agent, and you should have guessed a high chance that it was he. No, I will not declare the battle invalid. All three of you failed the test, and lost to your common enemy." quote:Aftermath: Harry Potter quote:The real reason why Harry had no intention of being argued into endorsing a Light Mark, no matter how much it would help him in his fight against the Dark Lord. quote:Aftermath: Blaise Zabini. quote:Aftermath: Hermione Granger. And it's good to see that McGonnal is still an ineffectual interfering biddy trying to treat children like children, no matter who she is interacting with. quote:Aftermath, Draco Malfoy:
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Mar 15, 2017 15:49
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Pvt.Scott posted:I did get poo poo and harassment from stoners of all people during 8th grade PE. They even threw rocks at me. Stones, surely.
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Mar 15, 2017 17:40
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Prism posted:Stones, surely. I walked into that one like the fourth lap around the football field.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:26
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Xander77 posted:To a large extent, this is a Q/H slashfic. EY does fanfic yuuuger than anyone else. TWO Mary-Sue characters! Each telling the other how great they are, in case the audience doesn't get it.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:54
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Chapter 36: Status Differentialsquote:Wrenching disorientation, that was how it felt to walk out of Platform Nine and Three-Quarters into the rest of Earth, the world that Harry had once thought was the only real world. People dressed in casual shirts and pants, instead of the more dignified robes of wizards and witches. Scattered bits of trash here and there around the benches. A forgotten smell, the fumes of burned gasoline, raw and sharp in the air. The ambiance of the King's Cross train station, less bright and cheerful than Hogwarts or Diagon Alley; the people seemed smaller, more afraid, and likely would have eagerly traded their problems for a dark wizard to fight. Harry wanted to cast Scourgify for the dirt, and Everto for the garbage, and if he'd known the spell, a Bubble-Head Charm so he wouldn't have to breathe the air. But he couldn't use his wand, in this place... The healthcare is definitely better, by all appearances. And food... I'm pretty sure that the HP / HPMOR universe does not allow for the creation of food, but it can improve appearance / taste / nutritional value. (I'm actually merely presuming this is the case, much like the one person earlier in the thread who presumed that the HP universe has mana pools - because almost every modern spellcasting system contains that proviso, completely ignoring the fact that creating food out of thin air is one of the ur-magic acts) So, I'll allow this, and note that it makes for an interesting inversion from the "backwards wizards, advanced moogles" thing found elsewhere in HP / HPMOR . quote:"Harry?" called a thin, blonde woman whose perfectly smooth and unblemished skin made her look a good deal younger than thirty-three; and Harry realized with a start that it was magic, he hadn't known the signs before but he could see them now. And whatever sort of potion lasted that long, it must have been terribly dangerous, because most witches didn't do that to themselves, they weren't that desperate... quote:It hadn't hurt quite so much when his parents didn't believe in him, back when no one else had believed in him either, back when Harry hadn't known how it felt to be taken seriously by people like Headmaster Dumbledore and Professor Quirrell. ... Harry's house has lots and lots of books, because that's a sign of smart academic people - always adding books, and never giving any away. quote:Gringotts had readily exchanged Galleons for paper money, but they didn't seem to have any simple way to turn larger quantities of gold into tax-free, unsuspicious Muggle money in a numbered Swiss bank account. This had rather spiked Harry's plan to turn most of the money he'd self-stolen into a sensible mix of 60% international index funds and 40% Berkshire Hathaway. For the moment, Harry had diversified his assets a little further by sneaking out late at night, invisible and Time-Turned, and burying one hundred golden Galleons in the backyard. He'd always always always wanted to do that anyway. Also, I'm in my thirties and I have no idea what international index funds are (much less Berkshire Hathaway). I can actually buy a science / science-fiction obsessed 11 year old Harriezer knowing the terms he shows off in the first few chapters more than suddenly being interested in financial manipulation. quote:Some of December 24th had been spent with the Professor reading Harry's books and asking questions. Most of the experiments his father had suggested were impractical, at least for the moment; of those remaining, Harry had done many of them already. ("Yes, Dad, I checked what happened if Hermione was given a changed pronunciation and she didn't know whether it was changed, that was the very first experiment I did, Dad!") quote:Harry had shown his mother the healer's kit he'd bought to keep in their house, though most of the potions wouldn't work on Dad. Mum had stared at the kit in a way that made Harry ask whether Mum's sister had ever bought anything like that for Grandpa Edwin and Grandma Elaine. And when Mum still hadn't answered, Harry had said hastily that she must have just never thought of it. And then, finally, he'd fled the room. ... Harry and family go off to visit Hermione and family, since both families are convinced that two eleven year olds liking each other is a sure sign that a marriage is on the horizon. At least that's consistent with the HP universe? And of course Harriezer is furious at being treated like an 11 year old. quote:Roberta took in her first sight of Professor and Mrs. Verres, who were both looking rather nervous, just as the boy with the legendary scar on his forehead turned to her daughter and said, now in a lower voice, "Well met on this fairest of evenings, Miss Granger." His hand stretched back, as though offering his parents on a silver platter. "I present to you my father, Professor Michael Verres-Evans, and my mother, Mrs. Petunia Evans-Verres." But he's even more infuriated about Hermione being treated like an eleven year old. quote:the problem with feeling sorry for yourself was that it never took any time at all to find someone else who had it worse. quote:The conversation had only just gotten started again when a distant high-pitched yelp floated back to them,
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Mar 17, 2017 11:34
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Wait, potions don't work on muggles?
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Mar 17, 2017 14:06
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Wait, potions don't work on muggles? They do. Yud.
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Mar 17, 2017 15:30
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Wait, potions don't work on muggles?
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Mar 17, 2017 15:33
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He's saying some do and some don't, to be fair. Earlier Harriezer was wondering if his grandparents would be alive if Lily had used potions on them. Then he climbs on his favorite hobby horse of magical immortality again.
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Mar 17, 2017 17:08
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Added Space posted:Earlier Harriezer was wondering if his grandparents would be alive if Lily had used potions on them. That made me realize, canon Harry's not only a war orphan, he's also improbably unlucky in being the child of twenty-year-old parents yet still having no living grandparents - especially with two of those grandparents being magical. Yes, I realize it's narrative convenience, and the fact that I never thought about it before shows it's an entirely forgivable one. Still, it would have been really easy to just make them into four more of Voldemort's victims.
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Mar 17, 2017 20:36
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NihilCredo posted:That made me realize, canon Harry's not only a war orphan, he's also improbably unlucky in being the child of twenty-year-old parents yet still having no living grandparents - especially with two of those grandparents being magical. Harry's magical grandparents were reasonably old when they had his father, and were probably killed by the same dragon pox outbreak that killed Malfoy's grandfather as well. Lily's parents being dead really is pure narrative convenience, though.
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Mar 17, 2017 21:25
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