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TriffTshngo posted:The first time I watched through Brotherhood it was kind of shocking to me how the 4 Chimeras all continued to help and actually survived to the end. In a more predictable story they would've been introduced for the sole purpose of getting merc'd by the bad guys so they could keep up a body count as the series progressed. Yeah, that really shocked me too. I was certain at least one of them was gonna die, either at the hands of Envy, who I wouldn't put it past to, or Kimlbee, who they betrayed. First I thought it would be Zampano or what's his name, cause I thought he was legit betraying the group and that Envy would kill him after he had no use for him, and then I was afraid for Lion dude, cause seriously, he was fighting Pride. Speaking of which, I really enjoyed that Fullmetal Alchemist had no power creep, and how characters can take advantage of weaknesses to gain the upper hand. Ed and Al don't really gain sudden power ups - Alphonse does get instant transmutation but it's understandable why and how he gets it, and it's not really drastic in the whole scheme of things. Granted, this probably contributes to the fighting issue that was brought up, cause characters don't have new flashy techniques with cool names to bust out. Like, the biggest power-up (for the heroes) is Ed getting lighter automail. Any gaps between the characters can be balanced out by fighting smarter. Mustang's probably the most powerful alchemist when it comes to fighting homonculi (save Gluttony) thanks to his insane firepower, but his inexperience with fighting them leads to Lust nearly killing him. Pride's got insane killing power, but the Lion chimera dude is able to nullify his ability for a while until people who up with lanterns. Scar seems unstoppable at first, but that's because Ed and Al weren't really aware of what he could do, and because most alchemists probably aren't acquainted with close combat. The 2 chimeras are able to wear Scar down by attacking him from afar / hindering his mobility, and Ed and Al are also able to get an upper hand on him during their rematch. Power creep tends to be a thing that shounen manga can't really avoid nowdays, I think. Comes with having insane battles, and it's what leads to escalating threats all the time. After all, if the MC does beat this city-threatening enemy, then clearly the next enemy has to be stronger than that to pose a threat. And so on. JoJo's an exception to that, I think, at least from what I've watched (Parts 1 to 4) after the introduction of Stands cause Stands are super complex and neat and depend on how well you can use them as opposed to simple physical abilities and WILLPOWER. Rurouni Kenshin might've also been an exception? Enishi and his gang didn't really seem all that stronger than Shishio's group, Kenshin's difficulties were more about dealing with past trauma than anything else. Even Beelzebub, a gag series I really enjoyed, had a ton of power creep, though there it didn't really matter cause it was primarily a comedy. I don't think power creep is innately bad, but in cases like Naruto or Bleach or Fairy Tail, it does get a bit hard to swallow. Which is why Fullmetal Alchemist remains neat to this day, cause it's not about that. There's just a lot I could gush on about Fullmetal Alchemist.
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Mar 16, 2017 02:06
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What the gently caress, Kimblee's first name is Solf, not Zolf? The gently caress?
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Mar 16, 2017 02:23
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The funny thing is that Fairy Tail didn't have any major permanent powerups either prior to Second Origin. Natsu always won with a temporary powerup. Then they did another time skip to give everyone a second set of powerups. The second set of powerups didn't even serve much narrative purpose, either. I guess it helped sell the idea that the Alvarez Empire was a big deal while still allowing the protagonists to beat them, since before the second timeskip Makarov thought Fairy Tail had no chance against them? Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 02:25
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Second Origin was some of the silliest poo poo. At least Gajeel trained for his power up!!!! EDIT: Doesn't the Fire-Lightning Dragon thing he got from Laxus at the end of Tenrou count.
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Mar 16, 2017 02:27
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Hate-Senpai posted:Second Origin was some of the silliest poo poo. At least Gajeel trained for his power up!!!! I think everyone except the main characters getting stronger over the first timeskip was there mainly for comedic value (Natsu struggling against a nobody like Max, Lucy's attempted Hyperbolic Time Chamber-style exploit backfiring). Second Origin was a handwave to get the protagonists back on par with the rest of the world before the serious plot started. Plus Erza already having Second Origin set up the way she beat Minerva. I forgot about Fire-Lightning being permanent. Although it might have worn off eventually, since I don't think Natsu has used it in a long time. Normally I think this thread exaggerates the amnesiac effects of Fairy Tail, but this time it happened to me!
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Mar 16, 2017 02:33
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Minerva's also another case that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Which is weird, because I can forgive Gajeel for doing the same thing...
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Mar 16, 2017 02:35
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Hate-Senpai posted:Speaking of which, I really enjoyed that Fullmetal Alchemist had no power creep, and how characters can take advantage of weaknesses to gain the upper hand. This is probably why I find most ur-shonen fights boring nowadays. Fight smarter! Not harder! Use your heads! It's more interesting that way! Even Rave Master had elements of this.
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Mar 16, 2017 03:31
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Julia's fight against the guy who could turn into acid was super neat.
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Mar 16, 2017 03:33
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Silver2195 posted:I think everyone except the main characters getting stronger over the first timeskip was there mainly for comedic value (Natsu struggling against a nobody like Max, Lucy's attempted Hyperbolic Time Chamber-style exploit backfiring). Second Origin was a handwave to get the protagonists back on par with the rest of the world before the serious plot started. Plus Erza already having Second Origin set up the way she beat Minerva. Fairy Tail is actually not that bad with power-ups, depending on you define "power-up". As we are so fond of doing, to compare to Dragon Ball, Second Origin is more in line with training under Roshi/Korin/Kami/King Kai/Whis, and grants a general boost in power. The Fire-Lightning and Iron-Shadow forms, Wendy's Dragon Force, and Lucy's Star Dress magic are the only SSJ-type power-ups found in the series. Erza using a new armor, Gray's shift to Ice Demon Slayer magic, and the Strauss siblings displaying new transformations are a weird blend of the two types. They are new forms to readers, but are still just an expansion of previously seen magic from the characters.
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Mar 16, 2017 04:52
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Yeah, I guess power ups vary by definition. In my case I'm sorta linking it with both power creep and escalating threats, cause the three have some sort of symbiotic relationship with each other in most works. Also holy poo poo that is a beautiful fuckyounicorn.
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Mar 16, 2017 06:05
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Hate-Senpai posted:Yeah, I guess power ups vary by definition. The easiest way to establish a new threat is show off that they are stronger than the previous threat, which means the heroes have to get stronger to overcome them, which nowadays means a new form has to be unlocked. Hate-Senpai posted:Power creep tends to be a thing that shounen manga can't really avoid nowdays, I think. Comes with having insane battles, and it's what leads to escalating threats all the time. After all, if the MC does beat this city-threatening enemy, then clearly the next enemy has to be stronger than that to pose a threat. And so on. JoJo's an exception to that, I think, at least from what I've watched (Parts 1 to 4) after the introduction of Stands cause Stands are super complex and neat and depend on how well you can use them as opposed to simple physical abilities and WILLPOWER. Rurouni Kenshin might've also been an exception? Enishi and his gang didn't really seem all that stronger than Shishio's group, Kenshin's difficulties were more about dealing with past trauma than anything else. Jojo's multiple parts allow for a soft reset between each one, especially going beyond the first 3 parts. Kira doesn't have to be stronger than DIO, just like the scope of the story doesn't have to be bigger than a globetrotting epic. Plus Stands have more being used to measure their power than "which one can hit hardest". Rurouni Kenshin was definitely another exception. I wanna say Watsuki did explicitly state that Shishio and his crew were stronger than Enishi and his band, but even if that wasn't true, judging by length of fights and how much of a toll they took on the heroes, the threats in the Vengeance arc were weaker than Shishio's forces. But the threats of the Venegeance arc had more personal connections to the heroes, which made up for the drop in strength.
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Mar 16, 2017 14:42
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Fairly Tail was ok with the power levels at first because the main antagonist was Jellal, someone who we knew was in the same general power level as Makarov by virtue of being one of the 10 Wizard Saints. Even Achnologia wasn't too out there since Dragon Slayers were already a thing and by virtual definition they'd have to beat up a dragon one day. But then everyone kept getting more and more power ups and the badguys would also get a power up, and then there would be new badguys who could have ruled the world if they'd just started out a couple years earlier when Jellal was a world power. Of course the gold standard remains Hunter X Hunter, where a power that has the properties of both rubber and gum has been first class from it's first introduction all the way to the present.
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Mar 16, 2017 15:29
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Honestly I prefer permanent power-ups to characters randomly winning through the power of friendship or yelling loud enough. At least then there's some level of progression and the possibility for tension, while tension can't really exist if you know that at some point the protagonist going to yell really loud and win by punching the enemy really hard. Ideally I like there being some level of power creep, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. It's nice to see characters learn new abilities and get stronger, but it's not really fun if they become drastically stronger after some contrived training/upgrade.
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Mar 16, 2017 16:47
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HxH's method of handling this sort of thing by having your emotional state and the intensity of your emotions actually play into how strong your Nen is is actually pretty smart. There's been plenty of instances in shonen where the hero gets angry or high on friendship or whatever and they get a power boost from it that makes no sense. However if you actually think to just straight up write that into the powerset of your universe, moments like Gon vs Pitou don't feel like a deus ex machina or trying to write yourself out of a corner. Fairy Tail has had moments like this too, like Natsu eating Laxus's lightning or Zancrow's God Slayer fire back on Tenrou Island. It just seems like Mashima doesn't feel the need to do clever things like that very often, because punching, friendship, tits, and dragons are enough to get by.
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Mar 16, 2017 17:00
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New chapter Once again, an enemy is defeated in a wet fart of a conclusion. And surprising no one, Natsu has become a demon dragon.
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Mar 17, 2017 03:30
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Ah, demon dragons, truly representative of humanity.
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Mar 17, 2017 03:37
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Kuroyama posted:New chapter August's loss was at least set up with the only his mother can defeat him line (which I had misremembered; he didn't actually specify that he was talking about Rakheid.). And it's not entirely clear that Natsu is a demon dragon now, either. Chapter titles are sometimes misleading.
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Mar 17, 2017 03:43
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So Zeref treated his son like poo poo so his curse wouldn't kill him, but he ended up killing his son because he hated him anyway. Good job.
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Mar 18, 2017 02:01
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RatHat posted:So Zeref treated his son like poo poo so his curse wouldn't kill him, but he ended up killing his son because he hated him anyway. Good job. That guy wasn't Zeref's son, that was like the entire point of the last two chapters
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Mar 18, 2017 02:31
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I wish August had evaporated my blood. He was the cool character. Shame he was also apparently a mamma's boy.
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Mar 18, 2017 02:48
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EDIT: Not sure how I missed that.
RatHat fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 03:53
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Crazyeyes posted:I wish August had evaporated my blood. Now that he's gone, can we erase the memory of Mavis ever being pregnant?
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Mar 21, 2017 00:59
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Say Nothing posted:Now that he's gone, can we erase the memory of Mavis ever being pregnant?
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Mar 21, 2017 10:29
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Relin posted:when you're surrounded by your family on your deathbed, your last thoughts will not be of your many good works in life, but how badly written fairy tail was I drink to try and forget Fairy Tail, but the memories remain.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:39
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Kuroyama posted:I drink to try and forget Fairy Tail, but the memories remain.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:42
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I can't remember much of anything from Fairy Tail I think I might go by and try sketching out action poses one day though, it's not Murata level, but the action stuff is actually pretty dynamic, I sort of vaguely remember how much I liked the posing and posturing of the characters. Like one memory I can place is Juvia standing with Grey at the... Uh, don't remember anything else... Also, as bad as FT is, this last arc is better than Bleach's last arc. Other than the weird writing anomalies I don't think it has done anything especially wrong as a narrative.
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Mar 22, 2017 07:07
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Crazyeyes posted:I wish August had evaporated my blood. That was loving strange. I was at least expecting SOMETHING, like a reunion of sorts. Some crying and eventual self destruction but wtf was that.
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Mar 22, 2017 10:02
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Once you've lit the self-destruct fuse, you can't cancel it.
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Mar 22, 2017 10:20
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August was the fuse, his magic was the dynamite and gunpowder part, and he was gonna blow up the whole place but when he saw Mavis he ditched the dynamite and the fuse burnt out.
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Mar 22, 2017 10:21
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Spiderdrake posted:I can't remember much of anything from Fairy Tail well the constant resets are starting to reach bleach levels but it's still better written
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Mar 23, 2017 08:19
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Hate-Senpai posted:August was the fuse, his magic was the dynamite and gunpowder part, and he was gonna blow up the whole place but when he saw Mavis he ditched the dynamite and the fuse burnt out.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:36
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I mean, I don't think it's stated in the story, but that was my interpretation. August starts self-destructing -> Decides to take everyone with him -> Sees good old mum -> Can't kill mom -> Decides not to kill everyone around him -> There's not take backs on suicide (Mishima with the deep life message here) -> Dies by himself as mom watches
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Mar 24, 2017 07:08
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as his mom watches, completely unaware of who that weird old dude in the sky was. who knows, it could have even been sad in a better-written story.
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Mar 24, 2017 08:05
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:as his mom watches, completely unaware of who that weird old dude in the sky was. who knows, it could have even been sad in a better-written story. Fairy Tail in a nutshell. Ha ha ha. Where's my main man Gajeel Redfox.
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Mar 24, 2017 08:08
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:as his mom watches, completely unaware of who that weird old dude in the sky was. who knows, it could have even been sad in a better-written story. That was my main thought too, that dying while the one person you wanted to see and to acknowledge you finally saw you and had no idea who you were or why you were doing what you were doing is pretty tragic, but it being Fairy Tail none of it really connects because it was all set up in a rush in a couple of chapters and had no emotional connection. Like, I can't even remember why Mavis has no idea who her own son is. Was August just cloned using her? Was she just pregnant while crystallized or what? There's no good reason she shouldn't recall giving birth, but she seems to not know at all and I don't recall whatever silly reason the manga gave even though it must have been in only the last couple of weeks. tsob fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 05:08
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my favorite part is when it turned out that orgasm jesus was some random delusional schmuck with no relevance to anything. at most, he provided a reason for natsu to get real mad and punch zeref when natsu was already real mad and punching zeref.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:23
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There is also the fact that August had not reason to kill himself. He was vastly more powerful then everyone there, and was capable of firing massive explosions enough to blow the place up anyway. We have even seen him do so. Gildartz was the second person to land a blow on him (the first was Mest but that was healed by Brandish.) and August shrugged off Gildartz's attack, while Gildartz was on his last legs. I just can't see how him self destructing was at all a good move other then Mashima not seeing a way for him to be beaten.
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Mar 25, 2017 08:25
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MonsterEnvy posted:There is also the fact that August had not reason to kill himself. He was vastly more powerful then everyone there, and was capable of firing massive explosions enough to blow the place up anyway. We have even seen him do so. Gildartz was the second person to land a blow on him (the first was Mest but that was healed by Brandish.) and August shrugged off Gildartz's attack, while Gildartz was on his last legs. I mean it was the same deal with Erza's mom.
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Mar 25, 2017 08:39
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Yeah, he wrote himself into a corner again.
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Mar 25, 2017 10:10
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MonsterEnvy posted:There is also the fact that August had not reason to kill himself. It's funny how pointlessly bad FT's writing is though, you can fix Eileen by having Acnologia land on her face (she's a dragon, he kills dragons, this is already well established) and August by simply showing him taking a wound that destabilizes his great magic because he's not accustomed to defending himself. But whatever, FT gonna FT all over our faces.
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Mar 25, 2017 13:47
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