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Ever since the appearance of the clear Jerusalem/Mecca analogue planet in Rogue One, I've kinda been wondering - how does Jediism/Force Worship play out as an actual religion? Like, not just the vague spiritual claims and actual magic abilities we see in the movies - what's the Jedi creation myth, or does it have one? Where is the line between the undisputed history of the galaxy and likely-fictional or embellished Jedi folklore? What are the key historical figures and narratives of the Jedi faith, and at what points did they schism? (It appears that there are a large number of distinct Jedi faiths, aside from the Light/Dark divide - some worship in different styles or don't call themselves Jedi.) Fair warning, I am not at all looking for shovelware EU crap that the actual movie writers will never give a gently caress about; I only care about the movies and possibly the cartoons, although I haven't seen them yet. I'm really just hoping that this will be slowly developed over the course of the next bajillion movies Disney pumps out over the course of my lifetime.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:13
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I don't know much about Star Wars lore, but I do know that Clone Wars and Rebels have made the Whills canon along with the moons Ashla and Bogan which represents the Light and Dark sides respectively.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:18
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Even in old pre-Disney EU stuff the absolute very beginnings of the Jedi and the Republic and so on are kept pretty vague. It's hard to get back to the start of it all- the prequels take on a more "mythic", fantastical tone than the OT but even then that's not the start of things. Creation myths are tough. Very little outside actual religion can bring itself to define an absolute start before which there was nothing.
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Mar 12, 2017 04:20
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please don't troll jivjov, he has canonitis 
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Mar 12, 2017 04:32
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The MSJ posted:I don't know much about Star Wars lore, but I do know that Clone Wars and Rebels have made the Whills canon along with the moons Ashla and Bogan which represents the Light and Dark sides respectively. Rebels is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. It's ugly and stupid.
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Mar 12, 2017 05:03
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UmOk posted:Rebels is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. That is a bold claim.
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Mar 12, 2017 05:28
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UmOk posted:I think you are confused. You need to be careful. 
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Mar 12, 2017 05:37
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UmOk posted:Rebels is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. It's ugly and stupid. I wouldn't go that far, it's really just ugly and boring (save for a few bright spots). I don't think there's any question it has a lower batting average than The Clone Wars. If they're going to go cheap on the action and sets compared to TCW and go with an ensemble, then the ensemble has to be interesting. And they're not. Ezra, Hera, Kanan, girl Boba fett- dull as dirt, every one of 'em. General Dog fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Mar 12, 2017 |
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Mar 12, 2017 05:51
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Clone Wars had a ton of dumb poo poo, especially towards the end. But it looked amazing which I think can be attributed to George Lucas involvement.
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Mar 12, 2017 15:55
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21 Muns posted:Ever since the appearance of the clear Jerusalem/Mecca analogue planet in Rogue One, I don't think it would be splitting hairs to say that Jedha is more specific than a Jerusalem/Mecca analogue. It's pretty clearly named after Jeddah which is the large port city in Saudi Arabia you pass through if you're travelling to Mecca. "Kyber" crystals are also first given their name towards the end of the Clone Wars series (Very towards the end of season 5 IIRC, so like 2012-ish?). Kyber -> Kaaba, literally "the Cube" but also the actual name of the granite structure that surrounds a real life sacred rock of some spiritual notoriety. 
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Mar 12, 2017 17:00
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:A Disney shareholders meeting has apparently revealed Luke's first words in TLJ.
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Mar 12, 2017 20:21
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Neo Rasa posted:I don't think it would be splitting hairs to say that Jedha is more specific than a Jerusalem/Mecca analogue. Thank you for this information!
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Mar 12, 2017 22:48
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Neo Rasa posted:I don't think it would be splitting hairs to say that Jedha is more specific than a Jerusalem/Mecca analogue. On the flipside, Scarif was named after someone mistakenly writing Gareth Edwards' name. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/sxsw-how-a-coffee-cup-mix-up-lead-a-new-star-wars-planet-name-985610
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Mar 14, 2017 04:35
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Re-reading smg's post history in Paul Saltine's Karate Killings and his analysis reminds me of the less stiflingly-literal parts of the RotS novelisation, which as we know is cool, and good.
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Mar 14, 2017 07:57
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Neo Rasa posted:It's pretty clearly named after Jeddah which is the large port city in Saudi Arabia you pass through if you're travelling to Mecca. "Kyber" crystals are also first given their name towards the end of the Clone Wars series (Very towards the end of season 5 IIRC, so like 2012-ish?). the name predates 2012 by a couple of decades
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Mar 14, 2017 09:22
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A more direct name source (ref. "Tatooine") would also be the Khyber Pass.
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Mar 14, 2017 11:32
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UmOk posted:Rebels is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. It's ugly and stupid. Are there any mainstream cartoons being made now or in the years when Clone Wars were in development that are targeted at children that are more violent than the Star Wars spin-off cartoons?
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Mar 17, 2017 16:05
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Maybe Regular Show? People die in that show a lot. And it's hilarious.
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Mar 17, 2017 17:32
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tadashi posted:Are there any mainstream cartoons being made now or in the years when Clone Wars were in development that are targeted at children that are more violent than the Star Wars spin-off cartoons? You mean man-children?
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Mar 17, 2017 18:20
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tadashi posted:Are there any mainstream cartoons being made now or in the years when Clone Wars were in development that are targeted at children that are more violent than the Star Wars spin-off cartoons? There are not, I think part of it too is how maturely Clone Wars is "shot" though which gives it more impact. Like even in the earlier seasons, two examples I remember: One is some Jedi is missing and people are trying find him and it periodically cuts back to a slow zoom out in a noir-ishly lit room with the bars of light revealing the guy's corpse more as it zooms out and as it zooms out we see the sinister voice narrating is in the room talking about impersonating him. The other is when Obi-Wan and Anakin go to some planet to stop a terrorist uprising or whatever, they save a princess there by blasting some dude out a window and it in one shot shows him falling out and hitting the ground. And instead of that being the end of it the person is still alive, and the princess is performing some last rites on him or something as he's dying and is talking about how she's going to work hard to make sure peace can reign on their planet once more etc. and as she's saying it you see people looking up at them through the transparent ground their on and as she's talking it like cracks more splitting apart the people of her planet visually. They make Obi-Wan even more of a consistently callous rear end in a top hat about when it's okay to be violent also. Like he'll be whining about how horrible war is or whatever but then five minutes later his BFF Anakin will just like impale a guy through the back on screen and he's genuinely jealous and like "lmao CLASSIC ANAKIN AMIRITE GUYS" as some other characters around him are stunned. The show isn't a graphic blood bath but for for a show made to sell merchandise it has a ton of "wait this would actually be good in a real movie" moments in it.
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Mar 17, 2017 18:42
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Anakin straight kills some people and many episodes revolving around Clone Troopers have a few people dying in every shot. it's a pretty far cry from most cartoons
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Mar 17, 2017 22:52
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I think the closest thing might be something like Samurai Jack or Powerpuff Girls. They're both graphically violent shows, albeit stylized to the point of being sanitized. Jack disembowels his foes a good number of times per episodes, but the nuts and bolts that pour from their wounds remind us they're robots. Likewise, the Powerpuff Girls routinely and gorily rip someone apart piece-by-piece, but they'll be a giant, goofy-looking monster. Both predate the Clone Wars by a few years, however.
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Mar 17, 2017 23:01
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Schwarzwald posted:I think the closest thing might be something like Samurai Jack or Powerpuff Girls. Samurai Jack just got revived, directly continuing off the old show. It's on Adult Swim and it's supposed to be bloody as hell.
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Mar 18, 2017 00:31
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Detective No. 27 posted:Samurai Jack just got revived, directly continuing off the old show. It's on Adult Swim and it's supposed to be bloody as hell. I've heard. I haven't had the opportunity to watch it yet, sadly. It's also worth noting that it's creator and director, Genndy Tartakovsky, also did the original Clone Wars cartoon.
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Mar 18, 2017 00:43
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Wait what Clone Wars are we talking about here? There's like three or four series now that are named the same (the Genndy Tartakovsky shorts, the Clone Wars series that had kinda bad kiddy designs, the Clone Wars movie, and ???)
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Mar 18, 2017 05:43
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Feldegast42 posted:Wait what Clone Wars are we talking about here? There's like three or four series now that are named the same (the Genndy Tartakovsky shorts, the Clone Wars series that had kinda bad kiddy designs, the Clone Wars movie, and ???) There are only two Clone Wars things. The Clone Wars movie was a pilot or animation test for the CG series that was converted to a theatrical release on short notice.
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Mar 18, 2017 05:59
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Feldegast42 posted:Wait what Clone Wars are we talking about here? There's like three or four series now that are named the same (the Genndy Tartakovsky shorts, the Clone Wars series that had kinda bad kiddy designs, the Clone Wars movie, and ???) The CG one that lasted 6 seasons. This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cRUrQBzoE8
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Mar 18, 2017 06:05
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So does the Kaaba. 
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Mar 18, 2017 06:43
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Bongo Bill posted:There are only two Clone Wars things. The Clone Wars movie was a pilot or animation test for the CG series that was converted to a theatrical release on short notice. I believe the movie was the first four episodes of the show stitched together as a movie, because Lucas loved the animation style.
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Mar 18, 2017 16:03
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Timby posted:I believe the movie was the first four episodes of the show stitched together as a movie, because Lucas loved the animation style. Yep; he was visiting the officers where Clone Wars being worked on and just said "we should release this theatrically" one day.
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Mar 18, 2017 16:48
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When was the last time TV episodes were stitched together to make a movie? Because that's some MST3K stuff.
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Mar 19, 2017 03:37
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Halloween Jack posted:When was the last time TV episodes were stitched together to make a movie? Because that's some MST3K stuff. I can't think of any example that isn't an MST3K-caliber Master Ninja situation. Though there's a lot of instances where a TV pilot during production evolved into a full out movie. Star Trek: The Motion Picture originated as a TV pilot also (part of why the costumes are so hilariously cheap looking in it) for Star Trek: Phase II. They originally did have a whole new cast and everything but whoever producer was like no man let's give this TV pilot the best effects we possibly can and make it a huge deal and get the old crew back. Amazingly two of the cast members of that unused new crew do appear in the movie very very briefly, they're the two that get killed in the transporter accident. I want to say one of David Lynch's movies was a straight up TV pilot that he shot some new stuff for to make it a stand alone feature film when no one wanted to pick it up, IIRC Mulholland Drive?
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Mar 19, 2017 04:27
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Neo Rasa posted:I can't think of any example that isn't an MST3K-caliber Master Ninja situation. Though there's a lot of instances where a TV pilot during production evolved into a full out movie. I already don't understand Mulholland Drive. But I REALLY don't understand it as a pilot to a TV show. Where the gently caress would you go from there? Granted, maybe that's why no one picked it up.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:32
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Looking into it more it makes a little more sense. A little over 2/3 of the way through when stuff is suddenly going waaay off the rails and there's a ton of nudity? That was all shot to conclude it and make it a lurid R rated movie insteas of something with content that could be gotten away with on TV.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:41
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Neo Rasa posted:Looking into it more it makes a little more sense. A little over 2/3 of the way through when stuff is suddenly going waaay off the rails and there's a ton of nudity? That was all shot to conclude it and make it a lurid R rated movie insteas of something with content that could be gotten away with on TV. Oh so maybe the stuff before she "wakes up" (minus the nudity) was, perhaps, the original pilot? Maybe, I could see that, I guess.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:45
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The MSJ posted:The CG one that lasted 6 seasons. My kid loves Star Wars and I have had to make sure I watch episodes first before he watches them because they can be way too violent. If it's an episode with space fighting or Jedi chopping up droids, it's fine but the show can be brutal. He saw that episode and made a comment about how he thought they were robots. That made me feel better. I was hesitant in letting him watch Rebels because it was so violent but he again commented how he thought the Stormtroopers were just robots so it was ok.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:02
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Illegal Clown posted:My kid loves Star Wars and I have had to make sure I watch episodes first before he watches them because they can be way too violent. If it's an episode with space fighting or Jedi chopping up droids, it's fine but the show can be brutal. He saw that episode and made a comment about how he thought they were robots. That made me feel better. I was hesitant in letting him watch Rebels because it was so violent but he again commented how he thought the Stormtroopers were just robots so it was ok. Your kid's going to see Force Awakens and become very upset when he sees Finn take off his helmet. e:also wtf that bounty hunter dude has a lightsaber made of blackness. I feel like Darth Vader would be jealous. Rough Lobster fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 05:05
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I'm glad the kid's being taught early on that some people don't count as human.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:07
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Rough Lobster posted:e:also wtf that bounty hunter dude has a lightsaber made of blackness. I feel like Darth Vader would be jealous. Rebels expanded the lore of that saber. It's called The Darksaber, and was built/wielded by the first Mandalorian Jedi named Tarre Vizsla. It was also passed down generation to generation, and was seen as a symbol of leadership.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:18
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Neo Rasa posted:I can't think of any example that isn't an MST3K-caliber Master Ninja situation. Though there's a lot of instances where a TV pilot during production evolved into a full out movie. Wasn't Phase II to reuse a lot of TOS elements, and they just rolled that budget into the movie's? I don't know if the costumes from Phase II were recycled if that's what you mean:  Those certainly were't from TOS because, as other nerds on the internet have noted, the collars are more pointed on the newer ones. The Golden Gael fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Mar 19, 2017 |
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Mar 19, 2017 05:41
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