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Is there a reasonable explanation for the 2+2 CCX quad configuration beyond "two half defective dies are much cheaper than one fully functional one"? I can't believe they did this.
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Mar 17, 2017 08:32
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Twice the fetch / decode and more l2 cache? Maybe that helps in some workloads? Expecting it doesn't at all in games though unless something changes. GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 08:42
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FaustianQ posted:Also OrangeKhrush, who has been eerily on point for Ryzen, has posted on Anandtech that the inherent issues Ryzen is having with games has little to do at the software level and more that it's a stepping issue that's already been resolved in time for R5/HEDT/Server release. The best guess? The data fabric is no longer locked to IMC frequency in the new C stepping, but can be re enabled inside the BIOS. Why was this done in previous steppings? I guess some issue in quality of silicon? He posted more information today. X399 HEDT chipset with 16C/32T, new LGA socket, quad-channel and new silicon that fixes the interconnectivity issues. As you mentioned fixes are also coming to R7/R5/R3 in form of a new revision but no new SKUs. Depending on how big the performance impact will be that's a bit surprising. OrangeKhrush posted:performance is coming but only if you haven't bought a chip yet.
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Mar 17, 2017 09:11
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They didn't decide to name it Z399 for trolling purposes?
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Mar 17, 2017 09:15
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They are so silly not releasing the fixed silicon in a few months, with a fanfare about how we listened and boosted the performance. If they just hide it with older silicon they look like assholes. I hope they don't do that and all this is actually true.
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Mar 17, 2017 09:29
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:They are so silly not releasing the fixed silicon in a few months, with a fanfare about how we listened and boosted the performance. You are posting in the AMD thread friend.
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Mar 17, 2017 09:37
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eames posted:"two half defective dies are much cheaper than one fully functional one"? I can't believe they did this. I think that's exactly it. As more and more information comes out and digging through the Strictly Technical thread on AnandTech it seems pretty obvious that the Ryzen CPUs are designed for servers of various sizes first and then everything else is binned from there for every SKU instead of a few like Intel does. The undervolting/TDP lock performance and at least to me the Linux performance advantage over consumer Win10 especially point towards that for me. Also the comparisons to Broadwell-E in the leadup rather than Kaby/Skylake I'm still a few weeks behind on the thread, but it's a really interesting read even though I'm more casual than a lot of folks participating. I still want to  together a laptop out of am AM4 mobo. If Linus could make a custom heat sink, why can't I?
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Mar 17, 2017 09:41
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Platfroms got real promise, I hope they don't screw their public perception. Maybe they'll just make some new sku's (or do nothing until ryzen+). GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 09:41
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No reason the datafabric speed issue can not be solved with microcode updates, along with an updated agesa and BIOS to expose them as options to the end user. Unless there is something utterly borked in the datafabric implementation, in which case its TLB v2: and they deserve a good ball punching for that level of derp.
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Mar 17, 2017 12:29
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Platfroms got real promise, I hope they don't screw their public perception. I mean you can't suppress all the gaming benchmarks for an infinite amount of time.
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Mar 17, 2017 15:00
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eames posted:Is there a reasonable explanation for the 2+2 CCX quad configuration beyond "two half defective dies are much cheaper than one fully functional one"? I can't believe they did this. NewFatMike posted:I think that's exactly it. I'm pretty sure it's because it's cheaper to manufacture exactly one package/configuration and just sell the ones that only turn out to half-work at a loss - just not a total loss.
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Mar 17, 2017 15:22
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Yes that is implied with what I said
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Mar 17, 2017 15:42
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A 1400X Black Edition with guaranteed 4-0 layout and 4GHz boost at ~199$ could nab quite a few sales until the mainstream coffee hexas land in 2018. All they have to do is imitate Intel, disable the magic glue they worked so hard on, and make that low power process scream in pain 
sauer kraut fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 15:44
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Are they actually releasing any 4-0s right now, even mixed in? Either way mixing steppings under the same SKU is pretty stupid, why not bump the number like they did with Steamroller in FX?
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Mar 17, 2017 16:20
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Yeah, just call it 1700+ or 1702 or something, jesus. This is the evga cooler bullshit all over again
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Mar 17, 2017 16:23
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Paul MaudDib posted:Are they actually releasing any 4-0s right now, even mixed in? This has always been the norm though. Remember when the Q6600 G0 stepping overclocked massively better than the B3? Remember when the Phenom II 965 launched at 140W TDP, and then shortly after another stepping that had a 125W TDP followed? And then it turned out that the 1st phenom II stepping didn't even support quad channel DDR3 at sane speeds? I remember.
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Mar 17, 2017 16:24
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eames posted:Is there a reasonable explanation for the 2+2 CCX quad configuration beyond "two half defective dies are much cheaper than one fully functional one"? I can't believe they did this. They built a bunch of 4x4 ccx and 1 or more cores failed so they pushed out the 2x2 to recoup losses and amd thought the ccx wouldn't be an issue.
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Mar 17, 2017 16:57
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A 16C/32T workstation would be kinda neat. I look forward to seeing what reality brings us there, and if they could possibly price it to compete directly with Skylake-X/E.
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Mar 17, 2017 21:51
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Twerk from Home posted:This has always been the norm though. Remember when the Q6600 G0 stepping overclocked massively better than the B3? Remember when the Phenom II 965 launched at 140W TDP, and then shortly after another stepping that had a 125W TDP followed? And then it turned out that the 1st phenom II stepping didn't even support quad channel DDR3 at sane speeds? I remember. Overclocking ability is a different thing entirely - you'd at least expect similar performance at standard settings.
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Mar 17, 2017 22:20
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wargames posted:They built a bunch of 4x4 ccx and 1 or more cores failed so they pushed out the 2x2 to recoup losses and amd thought the ccx wouldn't be an issue. The CCX potentially won't be a huge issue in the future, either.
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Mar 17, 2017 22:40
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Digital Foundry finally released their review. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TId-OrXWuOE No surprises but those real-life overclocking results are  .
eames fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 15:29
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eames posted:Digital Foundry finally released their review. Any other game screen caps or did they just run tomb raider? Can't watch the video at the moment.
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Mar 18, 2017 16:29
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*Insert text about how AMD is so much more superior than Intel when GPU-limited and how pointless Intel's advantage is when the former isn't* -/r/amd
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Mar 18, 2017 16:42
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B-Mac posted:Any other game screen caps or did they just run tomb raider? Can't watch the video at the moment. Crysis 3 seems to get higher framerates with SMT on. FPS Avg: 1800x 140 to 150 with SMT on 130 to 135 with SMT off, 7700k 152 to 157, 6900k 162 to 165 Far Cry Primal gets higher framerates with SMT off. FPS Avg: 1800x SMT On, 87. SMT Off, 97. Didn't see where they tested the other two intel cpus but I skipped around the video a lot. crysis 3: sometimes ryzen is faster than a 7700k, sometimes it's slower. 6900k 10% faster than the 1800x Rise of the Tomb raider: picture already shown but yeah it just runs slower on ryzen in cpu bound situations. 6900k is roughly 40-50% faster at stock clocks compared to the 1800x. Turning SMT off loses you more framerate. FPS Avg: 1800x 76-80, 7700k 115-118, 6900k 123-125 SMT Off: loses like 8 to 10 fps avg. Ashes of the singularity: 7700k (19%) and 6900k (32%) fasterthan 1800x. Devs put out a statement saying they're going to optimize the game for ryzen later. 1800x 35 fps, 7700k 42fps, 6900k 47fps Witcher 3 Novigrad: 7700k and 6900k faster but in the end you're still getting 100-120fps (120 fps average) on the ryzen compared to 110-130/140 on the 7700k and 6900k At 2560x1440 games are no longer cpu bound and things are now gpu bound and everything is about the same on average. Things become more consistent/and the 1800x ends up being the same or faster on average. Faster Ram: 3200mhz > 2133mhz ddr4 but no real difference between intel and amd. Just get better than 2133mhz ram. Windows Core scheduler and amd may have some issues (win7 vs win 10): Crysis 3 and and Far Cry Primal run better with SMT off/run better on Windows 7. In some mobos you disable zen cores you can run with 12 cores instead of 16 cores (and can turn a 1800x into a 1600x) No difference in performance in rear end Creed Unity, most games lose like 4-8% performance between 8 core and 6 core modes so it looks like the 6 core cpus will be roughly as fast for gaming as the 8 core cpus. The 6 cores need to come out first though to make sure though tl;dr: if gaming, 7700k > 1800x. If doing other things, Ryzen is still interesting. MagusDraco fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Mar 18, 2017 |
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Mar 18, 2017 16:52
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Anyone have some linux gaming benches for like CSGO or Witcher or whatever is cross-platform? Or OSX?
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Mar 18, 2017 20:11
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taqueso posted:Anyone have some linux gaming benches for like CSGO or whatever is cross-platform? Or OSX? Phoronix is the only site that does Linux gaming benchmarks with any regularity, and they did test CS:GO in their Ryzen review: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-ryzen-gaming&num=1
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Mar 18, 2017 20:14
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Single threaded Intel consumer desktop whips ryzen, news at 11 Now try running 4 vms on a quad core. Hedt is ryzen 7
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Mar 18, 2017 20:17
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Fudzilla says Intel knew the threat that Zen posed, but that it was ignored by the C-title jobs. No sources listed other than "their own". http://fudzilla.com/news/processors/43137-intel-underestimated-zen-ryzen-threat Dunno why, they've got two EE/CS Ph.Ds on their board, you'd think they'd have sounded the alarm. And I wouldn't believe you if you told me that Intel did not have their hands on ES silicon at some point or another during the lead-up to launch.
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Mar 19, 2017 02:59
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eames posted:new LGA socket Why do pins and LGAs instead of one or the other?
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Mar 19, 2017 12:37
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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AMD tends to only use LGA's when they're forced to and the server sockets have a truly insane amount of pins that are needed due to all the memory channels, interpackage buses, and extra cores they have to support.
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Mar 19, 2017 12:50
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blowfish posted:Why do pins and LGAs instead of one or the other? I am guessing PGA is the cheaper overall package but they needed higher density for the HEDT socket. Quad channel memory, more PCIe lanes and even higher power consumption could be reasons for that. Those are only rumors anyway. e:fb
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Mar 19, 2017 12:51
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blowfish posted:Why do pins and LGAs instead of one or the other? Intel moved the one thing that can break to the motherboard. pins
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Mar 19, 2017 14:35
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Fudzilla says Intel knew the threat that Zen posed, but that it was ignored by the C-title jobs. No sources listed other than "their own".
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Mar 19, 2017 16:06
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mobby_6kl posted:Well what they were supposed to do about it? Ryzen is great but it isn't anything Intel couldn't counter by lowering the prices a bit, if necessary. Maybe on the server side, but even then it would take some time for AMD to ramp up manufacturing and sales before it's a real threat. At the same time I have to imagine they're running some R&D beyond the next tick/tock as well. By lowering prices by around half? That isn't trivial.
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Mar 19, 2017 16:09
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They lowered their prices by half?
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Mar 19, 2017 16:43
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ohgodwhat posted:They lowered their prices by half? No, mobby suggested intel can easily counter ryzen by lowering their prices, and redeyes seems to think that he meant lowering prices to match AMD's prices (which would be half) would be the only way to counter it, which really isn't. People have obviously been willing to pay a premium for intel for years. Intel lowering the prices for their high end stuff to reasonable levels is all it would take to counter ryzen. Ryzen is only good because it's offering close to intel's high end performance for half the price. If it was only 2/3rd the price it wouldn't be nearly as compelling because of all of the downsides (memory compatibility, weird gaming performance issues, the fact that the chips are pretty much at the wall of overclocking performance out of the box) as it is at half the price of intel's closest offerings.
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Mar 19, 2017 16:57
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mobby_6kl posted:Well what they were supposed to do about it? "Computer enthusiasts" seem to be convinced that Intel has just been lazy the last few years and we would totally have dodeca-core 4GHz entry-level desktop chips with triple the IPC by now if they weren't just trying to milk us for minimal effort.
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Mar 19, 2017 19:45
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I wouldn't go that far, but $100 for hyperthreading? That's just a big 'gently caress you' to consumers. Same thing for the prices of the upper crust chips on the HEDT platform, $1100 and $1700 is just ridiculous bullshit because they can.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:14
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JnnyThndrs posted:I wouldn't go that far, but $100 for hyperthreading? That's just a big 'gently caress you' to consumers. Hyperthreading isn't a big deal to most consumers. I've got an i7 sitting unused in the other room that would be an upgrade over my current i5, that I haven't bothered swapping in because I'm too lazy and I don't think I'd see an appreciable difference from it.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:33
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:"Computer enthusiasts" seem to be convinced that Intel has just been lazy the last few years and we would totally have dodeca-core 4GHz entry-level desktop chips with triple the IPC by now if they weren't just trying to milk us for minimal effort. They're not lazy, it's that desktop CPUs are less of a revenue generator than server and laptops CPUs so it makes little economic sense to focus on them, combined with the fact that competition from AMD has been basically nonexistent for the past several years until now. From that position it makes sense to milk desktop users for minimal effort because what else are they gonna do?
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