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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Ze Pollack posted:At no point did I denigrate Perez. I think its a pretty dubious claim that Saban "bank rolled" Perez and that he was the reason Perez got involved. You denigrate Perez by implying that's the only reason he won.
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Mar 20, 2017 23:29
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Perez deserves denigration he knows what the gently caress of message he was sending by running against ellison.
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Mar 20, 2017 23:30
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JeffersonClay posted:I guess it requires an unbroken brain to understand that a rush of arms sales before an expected ban implies the ban actually stops people from buying arms. At any rate if you want to gently caress up a thread with gunchat try doing it in your own shittier version of this one, instead.
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Mar 20, 2017 23:35
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JeffersonClay posted:I guess it requires an unbroken brain to understand that a rush of arms sales before an expected ban implies the ban actually stops people from buying arms. For a guy who spent the better part of a week posting the word "RATFUCKED" in every sentence over and over again in two different threads, I'm curious how you define broken vs unbroken brains.
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Mar 20, 2017 23:35
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I think its a pretty dubious claim that Saban "bank rolled" Perez and that he was the reason Perez got involved. You denigrate Perez by implying that's the only reason he won. And so we go from "how dare you suggest the establishment is anti-minority" to "look, the establishment's stated anti-minority viewpoints are probably not the only reason the establishment hastily decided to squash this particular person when it looked like they were going to get the job unopposed." What an encouraging message to send to that young, vibrant left-winger you so wanted to see a few minutes ago. When the party closes ranks to shut you out, it might not only be because you're the wrong kind of minority.
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Mar 20, 2017 23:37
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Ze Pollack posted:And so we go from "how dare you suggest the establishment is anti-minority" to "look, the establishment's stated anti-minority viewpoints are probably not the only reason the establishment hastily decided to squash this particular person when it looked like they were going to get the job unopposed."  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 20, 2017 23:41
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Stairmaster posted:Perez deserves denigration he knows what the gently caress of message he was sending by running against ellison. "I, and many others, think I will do a better job of recapturing the voters we lost in 2016 than Ellison will"? I don't think Perez was the best candidate, but the idea that he was put forward solely as a centrist conspiracy to deny the left is just the result of a simplistic fairytale view of the Democratic Party and a failure to understand that there are a whole lot more than two factions in the party. Some factions lined up behind Bernie while others backed Clinton, but that doesn't mean that the entire party has splintered into a solid "Clinton wing" and "Bernie wing" - there are a number of groups with no particular loyalty, and the Perez pick was made in hopes that he would appeal to more of those neutral groups than Ellison did.
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Mar 20, 2017 23:48
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Candidate who loses the entire rust belt says what
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Mar 20, 2017 23:49
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Ze Pollack posted:Candidate who loses the entire rust belt says what 
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Mar 21, 2017 00:08
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labor for h
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Mar 21, 2017 00:16
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Main Paineframe posted:"I, and many others, think I will do a better job of recapturing the voters we lost in 2016 than Ellison will"? I don't think Perez was the best candidate, but the idea that he was put forward solely as a centrist conspiracy to deny the left is just the result of a simplistic fairytale view of the Democratic Party and a failure to understand that there are a whole lot more than two factions in the party. It doesn't matter what the facts are if it was clear the public was viewing him as the clintonist canidate.
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Mar 21, 2017 00:19
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Stairmaster posted:It doesn't matter what the facts are if it was clear the public was viewing him as the clintonist canidate. The only people who saw the DNC chair election as "Sanders candidate vs Clinton candidate" were the leftist Bernie diehards, who made up a relatively small portion of the people who voted for Bernie.
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Mar 21, 2017 01:19
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Main Paineframe posted:The only people who saw the DNC chair election as "Sanders candidate vs Clinton candidate" were the leftist Bernie diehards, who made up a relatively small portion of the people who voted for Bernie. would you say it's a.... nothingburger?
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Mar 21, 2017 01:21
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Main Paineframe posted:The only people who saw the DNC chair election as "Sanders candidate vs Clinton candidate" were the leftist Bernie diehards, who made up a relatively small portion of the people who voted for Bernie. FWIW I didn't see it as Sanders vs Clinton, I saw it as progressives vs whatever the hell Obama is supposed to be. And whatever the hell Obama is supposed to be, won.
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Mar 21, 2017 01:29
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galenanorth posted:Gun control is a losing issue and dropping it would allow Democrats to go further left on the rest of their agenda. Dropping gun control would show, again, that the Democrats are willing to abandon and drop issues that primarily concern minorities to chase centrist white votes.
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Mar 21, 2017 01:39
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Ze Pollack posted:Candidate who loses the entire rust belt says what I'm just chillin in Cedar Rapids
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Mar 21, 2017 01:59
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khwarezm posted:Dropping gun control would show, again, that the Democrats are willing to abandon and drop issues that primarily concern minorities to chase centrist white votes. I suppose it depends on what they replace it with. Gun control won't stop police officers from seeing every unarmed black teenager as a hulking demon that needs to be put down, it won't help with neo-segregation in schools, it won't help with endemic racism that will hire a white ex-felon over a black man with no record. If they just drop and don't take up any other cause then yes, it's an obviously anti-minority move.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:08
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Harik posted:I suppose it depends on what they replace it with. Gun control won't stop police officers from seeing every unarmed black teenager as a hulking demon that needs to be put down, it won't help with neo-segregation in schools, it won't help with endemic racism that will hire a white ex-felon over a black man with no record. Well, gun control ought to extend to the police force and involve heavily disarming them to make it much more difficult for the boys in blue to kill people, many police forces in countries like Ireland and the UK are almost entirely unarmed and shockingly, that means less police related shootings. The vast majority of police in Ireland have no qualifications whatsoever to handle a gun and thusly aren't allowed to use them. You're presenting a false dilemma anyway, gun control doesn't exist in a vacuum without any supporting policies to try and reel in violence and racism, my point was moreover that concerns about Gun Rights are a much larger issue for white, male people than most other segments of society and capitulating on that issue by the Democrats would show once again that that is the demographic deigned to matter most.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:18
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So long as Democrats can convince minorities that its guns destroying their communities and families and not you know the crushing poverty, drug war or overzealous police forces they'll still have some power on the national stage.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:32
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Condiv posted:would you say it's a.... nothingburger? Kilroy posted:Ah here we go again: nobody cared about the DNC chair election, Perez and Ellison are practically the same, etc. etc., but it's still really important that Perez gets the position. No? That's not even close to what I said. I saw it as different wings of the establishment having a disagreement over who would best appeal to Rust Belt factory workers, racial minorities, and other traditionally Democratic groups who were noted for their lower-than-expected turnout or higher-than-expected Trump support in 2016. Ellison's leftist battle for control of the DNC was a figment of overly optimistic imaginations; it was never about the left, it was about groups who actually mattered in the 2016 general. Now, whether TPP Tom was the right pick for that is a separate question, but that's got nothing to do with who endorsed who. Besides, the best candidate was Buttigieg by a mile - Keith and Tom were both big-money-loving establishment shitheads.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:33
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Proud Christian Mom posted:So long as Democrats can convince minorities that its guns destroying their communities and families and not you know the crushing poverty, drug war or overzealous police forces they'll still have some power on the national stage. Yeah, why would those stupid gullible minorities know what things could be damaging their communities? As we all know its a zero sum game where its only some specific things and not a summation of multiple factors.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:35
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khwarezm posted:Yeah, why would those stupid gullible minorities know what things could be damaging their communities? As we all know its a zero sum game where its only some things and not a summation of multiple factors. that's not what he said bub
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Mar 21, 2017 02:36
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:that's not what he said bub Lol yes it is.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:39
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It's not guns destroying their communities, it's capitalism
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Mar 21, 2017 02:53
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Main Paineframe posted:No? That's not even close to what I said. I saw it as different wings of the establishment having a disagreement over who would best appeal to Rust Belt factory workers, racial minorities, and other traditionally Democratic groups who were noted for their lower-than-expected turnout or higher-than-expected Trump support in 2016. Ellison's leftist battle for control of the DNC was a figment of overly optimistic imaginations; it was never about the left, it was about groups who actually mattered in the 2016 general. they're so fundamentally the same that obama personally took time off from his private island dream vacation to whip delegtes for perez. it was such a nothingburger position that ellison got smeared as anti-semtic repeatedly over it.
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Mar 21, 2017 03:11
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Ellison also said all the broke brained people who have more beef with Hillary than Trump were incomprehensible so let's not pretend you actually give a poo poo about his views on how the party should function.
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Mar 21, 2017 03:23
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JeffersonClay posted:Ellison also said all the broke brained people who have more beef with Hillary than Trump were incomprehensible so let's not pretend you actually give a poo poo about his views on how the party should function. Who the gently caress could possibly have more beef with abuela than with the orange piss tyrant?
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Mar 21, 2017 03:54
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Who the gently caress could possibly have more beef with abuela than with the orange piss tyrant? The person in the mirror.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:05
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Who the gently caress could possibly have more beef with abuela than with the orange piss tyrant? The bernout voices in JC's head
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Mar 21, 2017 04:06
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JeffersonClay posted:Ellison also said all the broke brained people who have more beef with Hillary than Trump were incomprehensible so let's not pretend you actually give a poo poo about his views on how the party should function. i got beef with lots of people i just don't post in the trump thread much cause it's drat hard to follow
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Mar 21, 2017 04:08
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:The other guy lost to you and spent millions of dollars to do it without having a single loving negative ad ran against him. I don't know, maybe Bernie isn't the savior of the party? Hey want to make a wager on the 1980 election. Sad loser Reagan lost to the guy who lost to Carter in '76, want to bet against him? It's a sure thing for you so why not. I mean I know why not. It's because "the winner of a primary is categorically the best general election candidate" is an obviously erroneous argument, both logically and empirically.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:21
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khwarezm posted:Dropping gun control would show, again, that the Democrats are willing to abandon and drop issues that primarily concern minorities to chase centrist white votes. Liberals keep talking about white votes like they're a bad thing. They're the same scumbags who accused Bernie of being a one-issue candidate. I'm brown and I would love if the Democrats could net some more white working class votes. Ditching a do-nothing policy point like gun control would be great. They shed the bullshit grandstanding and kill the NRA's reactionary membership and funds.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:21
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Who the gently caress could possibly have more beef with abuela than with the orange piss tyrant? The people who are certain the democrats will betray them by handing her daughter a senate seat. People like this: Tight Booty Shorts posted:How do we ensure she doesn't run again? Condiv posted:serves as a constant reminder of what a poo poo candidate she was Ellison doesn't actually care who you hate more. He's telling you to quit making GBS threads on democrats and focus on the existential threat to the country. But you never actually cared about his vision for the party.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:21
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JeffersonClay posted:The people who are certain the democrats will betray them by handing her daughter a senate seat. That's not what he said bud We don't need more Clintons or venture capitalists or pharma lapdogs We need more working class people and Democratic socialists to run for office. Webber to discourage the same people who got us in this mess in the first place from ever running for any office white sauce fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 04:22
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Main Paineframe posted:but that doesn't mean that the entire party has splintered into a solid "Clinton wing" and "Bernie wing" but the voters have
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Mar 21, 2017 04:23
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It's not like you'd listen to him anyway. To wit: https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/811943610300198913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Mar 21, 2017 04:23
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JeffersonClay posted:It's not like you'd listen to him anyway. To wit: The majority of me thinks he was him trying to appease the corporate bootlickers by saying poo poo like this Keith ain't even all that. He's leagues better than Perez, DWS or Brazille, but that's a low at to clear
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Mar 21, 2017 04:26
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https://mobile.twitter.com/gzornick/status/844005726590849024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Mar 21, 2017 04:33
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:The majority of me thinks he was him trying to appease the corporate bootlickers by saying poo poo like this You wanted desperately for him to run the DNC. And yet now that he's telling you to stop making GBS threads on Clinton and focus on Trump he's been co-opted by the corporatists. How convenient for your victim complex.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:46
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Who the gently caress could possibly have more beef with abuela than with the orange piss tyrant? No one. Obviously. But note the ease with which JeffersonClay switches between accusing progressives of wanting to rule the Democratic party with an iron fist and brooking no difference of opinion, then calling us hypocrites or deluded when we express some opinions different from the people we support. "Broken brain", indeed.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:52
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