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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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I'm really, really suprised by this (that is, by the apparent prevailing mood, not this poll specifically since there have been a few along these lines). The middle class bubble I generally talk politics in - and this thread - suggests that there's been a fair shift of people, if not to independence exactly, but at least more open to the idea of it due to Brexit, and certainly supportive of the principle of another referendum on the basis of a "material change in circumstances." It's worth bearing in mind that this poll, and others like it, aren't registering support for independence but just support for the idea of another referendum, which you'd assume to be higher (n.b. I realise this might be an unwarranted assumption; does anyone more familiar with political behavior models/polling know?). I know ~1/3 of SNP voters went with leave, but I'm amazed that significant portion of those clearly prioritise independence from the EU above independence from England, which seems strikingly odd to me: while there's definitely always been Mail-flavoured barmy-Brussels talk floating in the aether, I've never got the sense that the strength of feeling about the two issues were in any way comparable
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Mar 19, 2017 11:22
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Cerv posted:The gamble is doing it specifically to be in an EU member independent state. Most likely you'll end up in neither. hundreds of thousands of people leave the UK every year. it's not much of a gamble moving to scotland. it ain't so hard to move back to england. it's like moving from illinois to wisconsin.
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Mar 19, 2017 11:41
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Niric posted:It's worth bearing in mind that this poll, and others like it, aren't registering support for independence but just support for the idea of another referendum, which you'd assume to be higher (n.b. I realise this might be an unwarranted assumption; does anyone more familiar with political behavior models/polling know?). The poll I've posted asked both support for a referendum and for independence?
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Mar 19, 2017 11:57
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Pissflaps posted:The poll I've posted asked both support for a referendum and for independence? Phone posting, so didn't see the first poll there. Still surprised that support for another referendum is relatively low; would assume that everyone who'd vote yes would want one and that more than 5% of those who would vote no would support the principle of another referendum based on Brexit changing the context of the vote. Is there any poll for indepedence without the don't knows removed? It's be interesting to see if it's higher than previously or not
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Mar 19, 2017 12:38
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I'd have thought there's Yes voters out there who think a referendum shouldn't be held too soon as it is more likely to be lost.
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Mar 19, 2017 12:50
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Niric posted:Phone posting, so didn't see the first poll there. Still surprised that support for another referendum is relatively low; would assume that everyone who'd vote yes would want one and that more than 5% of those who would vote no would support the principle of another referendum based on Brexit changing the context of the vote. Is there any poll for indepedence without the don't knows removed? It's be interesting to see if it's higher than previously or not There's also a lot of feelings from both that the question was decided already.
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Mar 19, 2017 12:54
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Sturgeon finally responds to those rumours that the SNP were cooling on EU membership Sturgeon: Scotland will keep the pound and apply for full EU membership and adds a dollop of the oh-so-successful 'it's our pound' argument from back in 2014. Good luck with that one.
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Mar 19, 2017 17:42
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Have to admit I agree with Pissflaps here - keeping the pound is a bad idea through and through. We'd do much better with an independent currency or perhaps even (shock horror) the Euro. e: though the latter might well depend on political developments across Europe. If France leaves the EU nobody's going to want to be stuck holding Euros.
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Mar 19, 2017 18:40
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Pissflaps posted:Sturgeon finally responds to those rumours that the SNP were cooling on EU membership How on earth are the SNP still so bad at this? quote:Nicola Sturgeon has said an independent Scotland would keep the pound because it is "our currency as much as it is the currency of anywhere else". Framing it in terms of ownership is really dumb: I mean, not only is it economically illiterate but it didn't even work the first time around. It's especially odd when there's option of just saying "we'll continue to use the pound with a view to adopting out own currency when the time is right," and when currency was such a talking point last time that you'd hope they'd at least have given a bit of thought to a better answer
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Mar 19, 2017 18:53
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Congrats to No Winning the indyref again in a record 00:00:00 time. Done before it was even a thing.
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Mar 19, 2017 20:58
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Pushing for the pound the day after conference so there's no vote/rebellion in the party on it. Gotta hand it to the leadership, that takes some balls.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:06
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Leggsy posted:Pushing for the pound the day after conference so there's no vote/rebellion in the party on it. Gotta hand it to the leadership, that takes some balls. If you replace your brain with balls then sure.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:08
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Oh absolutely, I think it's a moronic idea. Especially considering the leadership are undermining the commission they set up to examine currency options. Hopefully they tell the leadership to go gently caress themselves and support an Independent currency.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:11
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A rebellion against the SNP leadership from within the SNP is as likely as a currency union with the UK. The reason why the SNP struggles to present a compelling case for currency and other such issues is simply that the current situation is - economically - far better than their alternative. Having said that, they'd be better served picking one option and hammering on it than attempting to present a buffet of choices.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:17
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Speaking as an actual member of the SNP, the party isn't as uniform on issues as you'd probably think (See: Alex Neil on Brexit). The one thing we all agree on is that Scotland should be independent. How an independent Scotland should look is something that is constantly debated within the lower reaches (aka the vast majority) of the party.
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Mar 19, 2017 21:39
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When does this commission report back?
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Mar 19, 2017 21:41
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When it's done I guess. Although there have been rumblings of a falling out between the chair Andrew Wilson and the SNP leadership. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-economics-guru-warns-independent-10028721 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-a7630621.html
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Mar 19, 2017 21:51
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well it is called the pound sterling
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Mar 19, 2017 22:08
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Pissflaps posted:Sturgeon finally responds to those rumours that the SNP were cooling on EU membership OH! MY! GOD! When will these loving people learn? I swear to god. It was their loving unconvincing, wishy-washy-yet-insistent position on "IT'S OOR POOND" that had a pretty large part to play in the last referendum being lost, or not being closer. But no, lets just wheel out Nicola with the same tired argument. Either we launch a Scottish Pound or we accept the Euro, which we'll have to if we want to join the EU anyway. But good luck selling that, because at this point most people think that unless you're Germany, membership of the Euro is not a great idea.
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Mar 19, 2017 22:08
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The first thing I ever posted like four years ago when I found there was a thread on Scottish independence was basically "Scotland couldn't keep the pound, that obviously can't work and will never happen".
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Mar 19, 2017 22:20
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They think it seems low risk to the electorate. There were quite a few questions answered in a similar way last time, using variations on "Don't worry that will be the same as it is now". The monarchy was one example. People are more likely to.go for a less dramatic change. It gives me pause because it suggests they haven't properly engaged with a big issues. Currency was used as a stick by the union campaign but what impact it had by itself overall I have no idea. The wider theme of unconsidered risk was important though. Edit: Indie campaigners was curemcy one you heard on doorsteps?
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Mar 19, 2017 22:37
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The Scottish Krone.
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Mar 19, 2017 22:37
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From a complete layman's perspective, it seems logical that if two unions have their own separate currency, and you are removing yourself from one union in favour of the other, you would make the respective switch of currency as well. I understand the viewpoint that it's "our" currency not "the UK's", but it seems trivial with a ready-made alternative laying in wait.
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Mar 19, 2017 22:57
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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Sterling is definitely the UK's currency in terms of both ownership and use.
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Mar 19, 2017 23:25
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Pissflaps posted:Sterling is definitely the UK's currency in terms of both ownership and use. But not the Steling pound.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:13
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Niric posted:Framing it in terms of ownership is really dumb: I mean, not only is it economically illiterate but it didn't even work the first time around. It's especially odd when there's option of just saying "we'll continue to use the pound with a view to adopting out own currency when the time is right," and when currency was such a talking point last time that you'd hope they'd at least have given a bit of thought to a better answer It's worse than that. The main argument for independence this time is so Scotland won't be tethered to the UK economy after it gets torpedoed by Turbo Nutter Brexit. Keeping the British currency is doing exactly what independence is intended to prevent.
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Mar 20, 2017 01:53
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Plenty of places just use the dollar as a currency, just use that
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Mar 20, 2017 10:50
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my hobby is taking back control of our destiny by letting the UK/the EU control our monetary policy. that's very good, to me.
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Mar 20, 2017 13:43
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Yorkshiremen are a pretty good medium of exchange imo and the restrictive window that is campaigning season in the north of England will help to prevent runaway inflation.
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Mar 20, 2017 13:59
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TomViolence posted:Yorkshiremen are a pretty good medium of exchange imo and the restrictive window that is campaigning season in the north of England will help to prevent runaway inflation.
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Mar 20, 2017 15:38
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TomViolence posted:Yorkshiremen are a pretty good medium of exchange imo and the restrictive window that is campaigning season in the north of England will help to prevent runaway inflation. They also have the advantage of being clearly identifiable, since anyone coming within earshot will be informed loudly and likely repeatedly that the currency is, in fact, from Yorkshire
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Mar 20, 2017 17:46
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Niric posted:They also have the advantage of being clearly identifiable, since anyone coming within earshot will be informed loudly and likely repeatedly that the currency is, in fact, from Yorkshire Yorkshirehoolin is a nice thought
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Mar 20, 2017 17:55
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Odd development https://twitter.com/hopenothate/status/843834413960101890
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Mar 20, 2017 18:45
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quote:Dowson described himself as “nihilist” Intriguing.  I mean, say what you want about National Soc- quote:has made his name and living for over 30 years fronting various bodies campaigning against abortion and gay groups. Oh.
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Mar 20, 2017 19:40
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Someone's not checked who the foreign minister is recently, have they.
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Mar 20, 2017 20:35
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I think he's trying to support it so "all those migrants and moslims will flock to Scotland instead of Engarland & Britons will be free"
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Mar 20, 2017 22:18
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https://athousandflowers.net/2017/03/20/fash-for-indy-leading-far-right-figure-says-he-will-be-backing-scottish-independence-100/quote:Regular readers of this blog may be familiar with the name Jim Dowson. Originally from Lanarkshire, he is the hard-right Christian loyalist who, over the years, has made a name for himself associating with – and pumping money into – an alarming assortment of fascist fronts. From militant anti-abortion groups, the Belfast flag protests of 2012, the success of the late-2000s BNP, to the brief emergence of Britain First, Dowson has been there, quietly pulling the strings.
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Mar 20, 2017 22:33
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The preponderance of credulous, zealous and gullible people within the ranks of Scottish Nationalism makes it a juicy target.
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Mar 20, 2017 22:38
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Did anyone see this yesterday at Central Station? Couple getting hitched after Glasgow train station proposal.  Not to my tastes, but fair play. The main thing though, who goes on a first date to a station?
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Mar 21, 2017 10:01
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"we met here on our first date…" presumably they met at the station before heading to the proper venue for the date. it's convenient.
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Mar 21, 2017 10:29
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