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PoptartsNinja posted:OFS talked about that. My bad. I still question the decision, with what I already said. It seems strange that they would try to change the balance on something that was already balanced, and has been the same exact way since the beginning, particularly when the game sticks to other conventions, like an early low level evolution bug and bird.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:28
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Tired Moritz posted:Only 2 legendaries. That's surprising. Oh there were plans. But they got C&D'd before they put them in.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:32
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The Starters just having one evolution kinda pisses me off there. That isn't interesting or unique, that's just bad game design since it makes the Starters basically weaker compared to the actual Starters.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:38
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Dexie posted:
It looks like a digimon.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:45
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Pyro Jack posted:The Starters just having one evolution kinda pisses me off there. That isn't interesting or unique, that's just bad game design since it makes the Starters basically weaker compared to the actual Starters. They're on par or stronger, so it's actually a dumb balancing mechanic especially since you get them at level 27. Starter final stats always vary a little, but the gen 5 starters for instance are all 528 while the gen 6 & 7 starters are 535. Gen 1 had a slight range from like 520 to 535. And so on The non-mega forms are 530 on the grass starter to 550 on sheep's starter. Balance!
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Mar 21, 2017 22:46
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Making the starters of your dumb fanhack also the Magikarps of your dumb fanhack is not a good idea! In fact, that's the exact opposite of what they're meant to be! They start out stronger than the other pokemon with advantageous typing, then as the game goes on they get more in line with the other pokemon until you eventually have a balanced team of six. Any point where you have to coddle your starter misses the point of it being your starter!
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Mar 21, 2017 23:22
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rannum posted:The non-mega forms are 530 on the grass starter to 550 on sheep's starter. Balance! why do they hate the grass starter so much
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Mar 21, 2017 23:28
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Oh, hey, did you think that there being 5 referenced legendaries not in the game was stupid enough? That's just the tip of the iceberg, as one of the legendary trios here is in the game... with only two members. gently caress this stupid poo poo. Also, they really don't get what the starters represent. How many kids got through R/B with just their super overlevelled starter? I know I certainly did. Hell, up until B/W every game I played my team was just my starter, a couple HM slaves and the box legendary for kicks. And I still got through them all an anemic two stage starter who relies on mega evolving (you know, that thing added so older mons could be more relevant without completely changing them?) is absurd, even if they end up as strong as third stages anyways.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:34
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magikid posted:I feel like when people want dark and edgy, what they're actually looking for is atmospheric. A heavy atmosphere can stir up emotions subtly and make you feel uneasy without resorting to cringeworthy "mature" topics or some kind of deathmetal bloodfest. I think atmospheric games are what inspire these guys, but when you don't know how to interpret that you end up with the latter two. Schubalts posted:It's a trade evolution.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:37
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That gif of Cameron prattling on and on isn't even the worst instance of  in this game.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:41
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Commander Keene posted:Oh, I guess that's how the "Link" in the name makes sense? The name doesn't exactly have much to do with ghosts or Pokeballs. It's because it has a chain 
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Mar 22, 2017 00:00
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Dexie posted:
It's evolution is perfect and my friend and like one of the few legit good designs in this game and I will not hear otherwise 
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Mar 22, 2017 00:11
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rannum posted:The non-mega forms are 530 on the grass starter to 550 on sheep's starter. Balance! So not only is the Grass starter the only one that does not start with a STAB skill AND the one that's most likely to straight up break the game on one of the core gameplay modes, but it's also straight up the weakest of the three overall? Man, whoever made this game just really doesn't like Grass types.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:15
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Dragonatrix posted:So not only is the Grass starter the only one that does not start with a STAB skill AND the one that's most likely to straight up break the game on one of the core gameplay modes, but it's also straight up the weakest of the three overall? It ends up grass/steel so I'm betting that was done as an attempt to balance it out a little bit.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:19
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Pokemon Sage art, now I go look it up, looks totally better than this. Like it's male-female are different Pokemon/combo Pokemon are Romeo and Juliet jokes. Except for our sweet sweet DRAGONTRACTOR Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 00:24
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Genocyber posted:It ends up grass/steel so I'm betting that was done as an attempt to balance it out a little bit. Metalynx is kinda like Ferrothorn, if it traded its ability and a bit of its buffness for instant recovery and better offensive presence. Ferrothorn is not quite the sort of design you look to when making a starter. A lot of its assets don't quite work for a storyline run.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:25
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I remember trying to use Ferrothorn in my black 2 run just because I thought it was cool. It was pretty painful.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:29
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Metalynx is kinda like Ferrothorn, if it traded its ability and a bit of its buffness for instant recovery and better offensive presence.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:33
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I had a read through of the Pokemon Sage pokedex, and I can't find a single one that would feel out of place in a real Pokemon game. Sure, there is some overlap, but for a project to create a new dex from the ground up there's bound to be some rehashed concepts. Sorta puts how bad Uranium is into perspective, really.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:35
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Bloody Pom posted:I had a read through of the Pokemon Sage pokedex, and I can't find a single one that would feel out of place in a real Pokemon game. Sure, there is some overlap, but for a project to create a new dex from the ground up there's bound to be some rehashed concepts. I was thinking just that. Nothing feels TOO outlandish and the design concepts that are a bit off the beaten track are still ones you could reasonably see. Sorry DRAGONTRACTOR but you're just a bit too Digimon for my Pokemon game.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:47
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Bloody Pom posted:I had a read through of the Pokemon Sage pokedex, and I can't find a single one that would feel out of place in a real Pokemon game. Sure, there is some overlap, but for a project to create a new dex from the ground up there's bound to be some rehashed concepts. The creator like the evolution lines of "Small cute thing-bigger less cute thing-big badass thing" a whole lot. Can't really blame him I guess.  Adorable. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 00:51
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Gridlocked posted:Sorry DRAGONTRACTOR but you're just a bit too Digimon for my Pokemon game. A little Digimon is okay imo. Xygarde is pretty rad.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:56
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SSNeoman posted:The creator like the evolution lines of "Small cute thing-bigger less cute thing-big badass thing" a whole lot. I wish Phlask and Peppit were actual Pokemon.
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Mar 22, 2017 01:24
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rannum posted:Except they're not really trash? Taking a look at the wiki they have 530-550 BST, that's higher than several actual starters' final forms. Who gives a poo poo about their end stats? The starter being a two-stage pokemon is a terrible decision from a gameplay standpoint. The starters in official games level up where they do to give the player a reasonable power spike right when their starters start trailing behind in power and let the games start throwing out stronger encounters. They then evolve again later to give them another stat boost to make them viable for endgame threats. Starters are starters because you can count on them being reliably strong without destroying the challenge curve. OFS talks about this in the update, too. For the past 11-13 levels or so the starter has been completely useless to him. It doesn't really matter that it gets its final stats early if leveling stickleg dogfish is a complete chore because it's too weak to take on the middleweight threats it's expected to encounter in the late teens to late twenties. When people call out Uranium on bad game design, this is one of the reasons why. Also finhead thundersharkpony's design is complete trash. The weird stick legs look terrible and from the front it looks like someone stapled Arceus's legs and a shark tail to a Dratini, then painted a lightning bolt on the side to make it go faster. The grass line's design is admittedly worse (flowers for leopard spots is cute but liepard does the look better). At least fire yoshi is sort-of alright looking? A fire raptor's pretty cool. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 01:59
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Specifically, Zapmander fell off at the exact point official starters would be evolving, when levels hit the teens.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:11
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also, to be honest, there's no reason for the starters to only have two 'normal' forms other than for the creator to try and be different for whatever reason. it serves no actual purpose other than to be weird compared to the official games. not to mention that there's already actual starters that have 3 forms along with a mega it's pointless, more or less
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Mar 22, 2017 02:10
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PoptartsNinja posted:Who gives a poo poo about their end stats? The starter being a two-stage pokemon is a terrible decision from a gameplay standpoint. I misread your post about the end result being weaker, rather than the bad design of having a weak starter during its midteens and going against the whole shtick of starter pokemon. Which I agree are bad! I was at first more looking at the bad design of giving you those stats at your late 20s on a starter rather than a gimmick like magikarp/feebas/wimpod.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:15
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PMush Perfect posted:That sounds amazing in competitive, and awful in storyline. I looked back at this, and Metalynx lacks entry hazards and Thunder Wave, and Leaf Blade/Meteor Mash are more reliable than Power Whip/Gyro Ball but Ferrothorn wins on raw oomph there. I had forgotten Ferrothorn's base attack is as high as it is. Synthesis is a big change though, and while it doesn't hit as hard with its STABs, access to Earthquake does let it do something about fires and steels whereas Ferrothorn is completely at their mercy. I could see it as an alternative to Ferrothron for a team that has its entry hazards elsewhere. It could take a bit of heat for Nihilego, since it resists 3 of Nihilego's weaknesses and Nihilego is really good at making Charizard die, for example. Mega Evolution is useless, though. E: I have to consider Uranium's new pokemon as they apply to competitive play in isolation, as though they're one thing being injected, instead of the whole dex being jammed in. There is some real poo poo in there that makes considering Ferrothorn alternatives seem quaint. Orange Fluffy Sheep fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 02:26
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rannum posted:I misread your post about the end result being weaker, rather than the bad design of having a weak starter during its midteens and going against the whole shtick of starter pokemon. Which I agree are bad! I was at first more looking at the bad design of giving you those stats at your late 20s on a starter rather than a gimmick like magikarp/feebas/wimpod. Yeah, I'm sorry I wasn't more clear the first time. My reaction was just a visceral one based on the level-curve experiments GameFreak did back in G/S/C. Totodile evolving at 18 felt rough when Cindaquil evolved at 14 and Chikorita evolved at 16. The fact that you get Feraligatr at 30 didn't quite compensate for those extra 2-4 levels of midgame weakness, while Typhlosion wasn't really hurt by not evolving until level 36 because that's about when you need the third stage power-spike. And then I imagined those 2-4 levels were stretched out to 10 in a game that already expects you to grind heavily to even try to stay competitive.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:29
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In terms of starter talk, I feel like making the starters Magikarp-esque in terms of growth--as someone else said earlier--was the wrong way to go in terms of making Uranium a more-difficult-than-average Pokemon game, from a design perspective. Assuming making a Pokemon game that is above-average and fair in its difficulty is the primary goal, I do wonder what alternative approaches to the typical starter formula would be viable design decisions. Off the top of my head, I think it may be interesting to design starters like Jeigan archetypes from Fire Emblem, where they start off super strong and useful, but due to poor stat-growths end up less than useful. This might encourage solid team-building and proper investment in the playerbase of this hypothetical "hard-mode" Pokemon game. Fake Edit: That being said, I feel like Gen V might've gone down this path a little, as that's the only generation I specifically remember dumping my starter in the PC before I even finished all the gyms. Those starters never seemed especially strong to me.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:43
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PoptartsNinja posted:Yeah, I'm sorry I wasn't more clear the first time. My reaction was just a visceral one based on the level-curve experiments GameFreak did back in G/S/C. Totodile evolving at 18 felt rough when Cindaquil evolved at 14 and Chikorita evolved at 16. The fact that you get Feraligatr at 30 didn't quite compensate for those extra 2-4 levels of midgame weakness, while Typhlosion wasn't really hurt by not evolving until level 36 because that's about when you need the third stage power-spike. Not only grind heavily, but more inefficiently. I'm basing this off the original Blue/Red games, but note that one of the first places you go is Viridian Forest. Which contains the Caterpie-Metapod/Weedle-Kakuna lines.So not only do you get a new set of pokemon to catch/ grind on, but it's a set that both evolve around level 8. And instead of the evolutions being incredibly dangerous forms with extra stats, they're big sacks of HP and defence. So not only are they safe, easy fights, but they're giving you the XP of an evolved form. In Uranium? No such luck. You're grinding on the same pokemon for most of the game, and only now are we seeing evolved forms, so the XP curve is messed up.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:47
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Posts like this are half of why I read OFS LPs.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:53
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:By the way, of the five legendary Pokemon in this, only two are actually fully implemented. The rest exist in the data but are in incomplete states. NINE YEARS Did they pull a Duke Nukem Forever? They probably redesigned the game every time some new official Pokemon games came out in order to integrate their new Pokemon, moves, and mechanics changes into Uranium. ... Or maybe the Pokemon Essentials engine is so crap that it takes them hours just to test poo poo and that they got so sick of it that they 'released' it just to get it off their backs before they look like a bunch of Ulillillias. Bydoless fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 02:53
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Johnny Joestar posted:also, to be honest, there's no reason for the starters to only have two 'normal' forms other than for the creator to try and be different for whatever reason. it serves no actual purpose other than to be weird compared to the official games. not to mention that there's already actual starters that have 3 forms along with a mega I expect that they only designed three forms, then later decided they had to have mega forms and didn't want to go back to design another form.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:55
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To be fair, they're completely independent, it's not like developing a Pokemon fangame pays the rent. Most fangames also take a very long time to complete for this reason. Not that I'm defending the game's quality.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:56
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Herr Tog posted:this thread is officially a goon project now. someone please redo the starters now thank you  I fixed Baaschaf.  Plus his Alola variant.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:58
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There's a part of me that wants to rip open this game's code, and try to rearrange the parts into something actually playable, but there's no way that it's worth the effort.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:59
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Blue Labrador posted:Fake Edit: That being said, I feel like Gen V might've gone down this path a little, as that's the only generation I specifically remember dumping my starter in the PC before I even finished all the gyms. Those starters never seemed especially strong to me. Eh, the Unova starters have the same approximate stat totals as the rest, but the stat spreads are real bad. Like, Samurott would be amazing in game if it were actually a samurai otter and dumped its special attack into speed/defense, and Emboar is basically a worse Darmanitan.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:04
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SSNeoman posted:
This thing is adorable and I love it. Little ghost/flask thing? Hell yeah! I'd name mine Marie Curie.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:07
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Last Celebration posted:Eh, the Unova starters have the same approximate stat totals as the rest, but the stat spreads are real bad. Like, Samurott would be amazing in game if it were actually a samurai otter and dumped its special attack into speed/defense, and Emboar is basically a worse Darmanitan. Also, make it heavier because Heavy Slam is already a terrible signature move without it being stuck on something that can't get above 40 BP on anything heavier than loving Crobat.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:09
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