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re: train transportation, my 1940 infantry manual has ten pages on how men, horses and carts are loaded into cars and what an army train's layout looks like. I can scan and translate it if there's interest?
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Mar 21, 2017 17:48
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My father (of the possibly-apocryphal Vietnam stories including "countersniping with an antitank gun" &c), has had some health problems lately. Blood clots in the lungs, apparently the same thing that killed T. Roosevelt. But as was said of TR, "Death had to take him sleeping, otherwise there would have been a fight," my pa was awake at the time. Maybe once he's back at home his afternoon I can finally convince him to write a memoir. Hegal, if you want to PM me words of encouragement for him to write the thing from your historian POV, now is the time.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:49
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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I'm not a historian but I would say that the trend of time is to bury the horror of war and dramatize or invent glory. Truthful accounts are a precious commodity in a country where there has been no full scale war in living memory.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:10
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Trin Tragula posted:As far as I know, the 1906 Aufmarschen drawn up by the von Schlieffen-directed General Staff were based mostly on tabletop exercises and staff rides, but I don't know very far; certainly if there's any records of a long-distance cross-country marching exercise to check that men could actually physically do what was being demanded of them, then they've never made it into English-language histories. (They do seem to have been much more interested in theoretical wargaming than large-scale practical field exercises like the contemporary British Army Manoeuvres.) It pleases me immensely how German this is
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Mar 21, 2017 18:14
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You don't spend months painting an army and then NOT play with it.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:28
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Trin Tragula posted:As far as I know, the 1906 Aufmarschen drawn up by the von Schlieffen-directed General Staff were based mostly on tabletop exercises and staff rides, but I don't know very far; certainly if there's any records of a long-distance cross-country marching exercise to check that men could actually physically do what was being demanded of them, then they've never made it into English-language histories. (They do seem to have been much more interested in theoretical wargaming than large-scale practical field exercises like the contemporary British Army Manoeuvres.) Having to let the Kaiser win any wargame he was in probably didn't help either.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:50
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aphid_licker posted:It pleases me immensely how German this is But a large scale tabletop game isn't pricier than an army scale field simulation and Germans aren't known for cost cutting measures though! (Unless of course they were using GW miniatures and therefore it would be cheaper to just pay actual soldiers).
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Mar 21, 2017 19:14
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Cease it, GWailures  So I saw Bitva Za Sevastopol today, after someone itt recommended it. It's.. really Russian.  I'm glad it was both critical of Soviet leadership and not horrible towards the jewish character 100% of the time 
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Mar 21, 2017 19:17
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Nenonen posted:re: train transportation, my 1940 infantry manual has ten pages on how men, horses and carts are loaded into cars and what an army train's layout looks like. I can scan and translate it if there's interest? post that poo poo
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Mar 21, 2017 19:22
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Plutonis posted:But a large scale tabletop game isn't pricier than an army scale field simulation and Germans aren't known for cost cutting measures though! (Unless of course they were using GW miniatures and therefore it would be cheaper to just pay actual soldiers). The Germans I know are convinced that if it works in the lab it must work exactly that way in real life, so the tabletop wargaming thing is extremely German to me.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:23
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Plutonis posted:But a large scale tabletop game isn't pricier than an army scale field simulation and Germans aren't known for cost cutting measures though! (Unless of course they were using GW miniatures and therefore it would be cheaper to just pay actual soldiers). Only the finest lead figurines for the Kaiser.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:23
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Also I went to the Armería Real in Madrid and the armor and weaponry collection there is magnificent. Great props to the captured standards from the Turkish Navy at Lepanto, the various jousting armors that Charles V had and the gigantic muskets used to defend the walls during a siege
Plutonis fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 19:27
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The Germans I know are convinced that if it works in the lab it must work exactly that way in real life, so the tabletop wargaming thing is extremely German to me. Yeah it's that very precisely calculating the movement of spherical divisions in a vacuum thing that's doing it for me.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:30
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Plutonis posted:Also I went to the Armería Real in Madrid and the armor and weaponry collection there is magnificent. Great props to the captured standards from the Turkish Navy at Lepanto, the various jousting armors that Charles V had and the gigantic muskets used to defend the walls during a siege Did they have bows from Lepanto on display? The Correr museum in Italy had several hundred of those in the depot. Only a few made it through the centuries.  Lepanto is interesting, it was the final straw that made the Ottomans drop the bow as the main weapon in favor of firearms.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:08
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"Yeah, just stack those centuries old bows in that pile over there  ..."
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Mar 21, 2017 20:11
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Somebody took it upon himself a drew a curve of the inventory and apparently the last 150 years or so really wrecked that poo poo. What's interesting about those red and black ones is, that it's bows that were used by simple soldiers.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:15
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JaucheCharly posted:Did they have bows from Lepanto on display? The Correr museum in Italy had several hundred of those in the depot. Only a few made it through the centuries. Only two of them! A shame, the Turkish composite bow was probably the best one ever made and it had an amazing ranhe.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:21
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Taerkar posted:Only the finest lead figurines for the Kaiser. I think HG Wells invented the first modern tabletop war game so it seems possible
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Mar 21, 2017 20:34
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Nebakenezzer posted:I think HG Wells invented the first modern tabletop war game so it seems possible HG Wells was pretty much GW before GW. Seriously look at the photographs of his war game stuff.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:37
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JaucheCharly posted:Did they have bows from Lepanto on display? The Correr museum in Italy had several hundred of those in the depot. Only a few made it through the centuries. My understanding is that it wiped out such a huge proportion of their skilled naval archers that they couldn't have stuck with the bow if they wanted to. The ships they replaced surprisingly quickly but the men couldn't be.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:37
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HEY GAIL posted:a woman joins the army as a nurse to fight in the vietnam war. She can't get used to the jungle--the leeches, the large animals that she can hear but not see. Years pass and now she's angry that her son, himself an officer, appears to have no sense of history. Children these days just don't care. But it's not what you think. Wow quote:My 39-year-old son is an officer in the military, but he has never asked about my story or shown any interest in it. I worry that when my friends, my comrades and I are all dead, our history and our stories will die with us.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:38
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There was another really good NYT article a few years back about the handful of people maintaining ARVN graves/memorials. If the winners aren't even being remembered you can imagine what's happened to the losing side's stories.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:46
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Nebakenezzer posted:I think HG Wells invented the first modern tabletop war game so it seems possible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel_(wargame)
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Mar 21, 2017 21:22
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HEY GAIL posted:incorrect: a dude named von Reisswitz HG Wells was the first one to popularise it as an actual game, like, something you did for fun. For 'boys and the sort of girl who likes to act like a boy', or something like that. Also played at scale on either a playroom floor or out in the garden rather than tabletop; the man thought big (and he was operating with 54mm OG tin soldiers, of course). Edit: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3691/3691-h/3691-h.htm
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Mar 21, 2017 22:03
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SeanBeansShako posted:HG Wells was pretty much GW before GW. The game is available on Project Gutenberg. Also a tabletop wargamer: Peter Cushing.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:05
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one of the original kriegsspiel sets http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/kriegsspiel-die-rollenspiel-kommode-fotostrecke-42723.html i think this dude was the reason NATO symbols look the way they do, but i'm not sure. i know that he's the reason opponents are represented as red and blue.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:10
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echopapa posted:Also a tabletop wargamer: Peter Cushing. This is the most delightful thing I've seen all day HEY GAIL posted:incorrect: a dude named von Reisswitz I was gonna qualify it like feedmegin did but it is legit impressive none the less, considering it uses hexes for the battlefield, and a kinda-sorta dungeon master (!)
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Mar 21, 2017 23:20
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feedmegin posted:For 'boys and the sort of girl who likes to act like a boy', or something like that. Even better: Little Wars; a game for boys from twelve years of age to one hundred and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl who likes boys' games and books edit: and the opening paragraph is even worse!: It can be played by boys of every age from twelve to one hundred and fifty—and even later if the limbs remain sufficiently supple—by girls of the better sort, and by a few rare and gifted women. Pontius Pilate fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 00:02
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Huh, I wonder if that's an early example of the "Girls with guns" trope where its spun as a positive.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:07
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Nebakenezzer posted:I was gonna qualify it like feedmegin did but it is legit impressive none the less, considering it uses hexes for the battlefield, and a kinda-sorta dungeon master (!) not only did this invent both military wargaming and fantasy wargaming, it was the first wargame to get beyond the idea that a wargame needed to be some sort of chess variant
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Mar 22, 2017 00:20
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Speaking of Germans and wargames, I've got a strange German and military question. If the etymology for landsknecht is basically "land" & "grunt", would a sci-fi mercenary spacemen be called Weltraumsknect?
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Mar 22, 2017 02:33
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Rockopolis posted:Speaking of Germans and wargames, I've got a strange German and military question. and if the space force descends from an air force which regarded itself as symbolic cavalry they wouldn't use it. infantry only.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:57
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chitoryu12 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcggNe-SEXU This is really neat, thanks for linking it. Some interesting moments: The most  strafing run I've ever seen. Debris from the explosion hits the guncamField artillery firing from landing craft At 26:40 a pair of Renault UEs roll by the camera Also in the recommended videos there's 45 minutes of Jack Lieb narrating his footage which I haven't seen before.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:10
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HEY GAIL posted:knecht in the military context is usually a term of honor for infantry. it's respectful. "servant of the land." So Weltraumskavallerie?
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Mar 22, 2017 03:27
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P-Mack posted:There was another really good NYT article a few years back about the handful of people maintaining ARVN graves/memorials. If the winners aren't even being remembered you can imagine what's happened to the losing side's stories.
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Mar 22, 2017 07:08
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Ah, I see it's time for the annual forums game of "Spot the actual historian" 
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Mar 22, 2017 07:14
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im not a very smart man can someone set out what Straight Black Kaiser actually is? I've seen it used several times and can't work it out
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Mar 22, 2017 08:32
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quite stretched out posted:im not a very smart man can someone set out what Straight Black Kaiser actually is? I've seen it used several times and can't work it out Lmao just lmao at this post. Try reading a book lmao
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Mar 22, 2017 08:39
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quite stretched out posted:im not a very smart man can someone set out what Straight Black Kaiser actually is? I've seen it used several times and can't work it out Gay Black Hitler is sort of a catch-all in this thread for "hey what if <insert incredibly improbable thing here> were to happen, could Germany have won WW2?" Straight Black Kaiser is the new WW1 equivalent, seems to me.
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Mar 22, 2017 08:40
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Elyv posted:Gay Black Hitler is sort of a catch-all in this thread for "hey what if <insert incredibly improbable thing here> were to happen, could Germany have won WW2?" thank you, kind and honourable poster
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Mar 22, 2017 08:42
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