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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The remarkable choreography is in the minority. Logan's berserker rampage is only memorable because it's less bland, i't's still just Logan running at people in a line. Good heavens, it's like the character has some kind of an ability which allows them to heal from the damage that tactic would occur.
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Mar 20, 2017 12:26
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Samovar posted:Good heavens, it's like the character has some kind of an ability which allows them to heal from the damage that tactic would occur. You seem to think that the issue is about tactical realism or something, It's just that the action is bland.
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Mar 20, 2017 12:57
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You seem to think that the issue is about tactical realism or something, It's just that the action is bland. Logan is not Neo.
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Mar 20, 2017 13:10
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You seem to think that the issue is about tactical realism or something, It's just that the action is bland. You seem to be of the opinion that the action is bland, when in fact it is an unsaid characterization of the titular character.
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Mar 20, 2017 13:47
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more like TACTICAL characterisation
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Mar 20, 2017 14:18
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Samovar posted:You seem to be of the opinion that the action is bland, when in fact it is an unsaid characterization of the titular character. this is basically half a step removed from 'it's bad on purpose' which is rarely a compelling argument i liked the movie a lot but the action did feel like it was coasting on the novelty of 'a marvel super hero and a bunch of kids are doing r-rated violence', deadpool had the same issue too
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Mar 20, 2017 14:29
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Brother Entropy posted:this is basically half a step removed from 'it's bad on purpose' which is rarely a compelling argument
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Mar 20, 2017 15:16
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I watched this and didn't find the action bland but it felt like they tried surgically inserting mortal kombat into a Coen brothers film. I feel like the director wanted to have the action scenes feel good in the moment and have the audience reflect on the brutality after the fact and feel uncomfortable with it, but the fast pace of the aftermath scenes and the environment of other action movies that train audiences to celebrate brutality against nameless bad private military men makes every scene where they attempt to poignantly talk about how violence fucks you up fall flat. It's very tonally dissonant and really detracted from the movie for me.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:05
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Sir Patrick Stewart was the highlight though and his performance dragged the entire movie up from mediocre to sort of decent.
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Mar 20, 2017 16:11
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this movie was bad because other movies exist e: also saying it was mortal kombat shoehorned into coen brothers could not be further from the truth, it was actually thelma and louise shoehorned into gareth edwards Jonah Galtberg fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 16:32
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I think you'll find that Logan is, in fact, a sequel to Jurassic Park.
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Mar 20, 2017 18:44
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Wow this movie loving sucked. Subvert some tropes, slap on an R-rating so you can see Logan rip someones head off and throw in a few tender scenes and tada, 92% on rotten tomatoes; for barely exceeding the poo poo expectations set by the MCU. It's been awhile since i've seen such an utterly joyless film.
Adonis fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 19:44
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Adonis posted:Wow this movie loving sucked. Subvert some tropes, slap on an R-rating so you can see Logan rip someones head off and throw in a few tender scenes and tada, 92% on rotten tomatoes; for barely exceeding the poo poo expectations set by the MCU. It's been awhile since i've seen such an utterly joyless film.
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Mar 20, 2017 23:24
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I'm curious if his healing factor was just failing because of his drinking for 9 million years, or if it was because of adamantium poisoning finally catching up with him, or if it was because if Viper putting a parasite on him or what. None of that particularly matters though, movie was great.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:43
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I know this isn't some cultural marxism critique but maybe the Reavers and the AgriBusiness goons are characterized as white trash as an homage to the white trash inbred Hulks from the comic book? 
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Mar 21, 2017 03:05
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Adonis posted:It's been awhile since i've seen such an utterly joyless film. Don't see Beavis then
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Mar 21, 2017 05:50
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I'm curious if his healing factor was just failing because of his drinking for 9 million years, or if it was because of adamantium poisoning finally catching up with him, or if it was because if Viper putting a parasite on him or what. None of that particularly matters though, movie was great. it's because he was getting old
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Mar 21, 2017 06:00
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Brother Entropy posted:it's because he was getting old Literal plot wise, yeah. I guess you could comic-book over explain it and argue he might not have experienced aging but for gradual super-metal bone poisoning based upon a few lines in the movie, but the thematic answer is that life, specifically his violent life, is finally catching up with him - he's degraded enough that he's no longer The Motherfucking Wolverine, and spends the movie struggling with being just Logan. He kinda learns to be both A Good and Happy Logan AND The Motherfucking Wolverine, via his real and honest heroism. That's like... what the movie is about, I think.
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Mar 21, 2017 06:44
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Brother Entropy posted:it's because he was getting old It was because of the additives in the food and such prevents mutations from occurring and probably fucks with mutants who eat it. Logan's healing ability is slowed, making him age, also giving him adamantium poisoning (which is why he is coughing up blood) since his body has a harder time regenerating.Xavier's power is also quite limited when in his right mind since it took a deal of effort just to get the horses to calm and return the trailer, a feat he could have easily done normally MrJacobs fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 07:03
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MrJacobs posted:It was because of the additives in the food and such prevents mutations from occurring and probably fucks with mutants who eat it. Logan's healing ability is slowed, so he had adamantium poisoning and Xavier's power is quite limited when in his right mind. There's no indication Caliban was having any problems while the two people who were 90+ were.
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Mar 21, 2017 07:06
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Sir Kodiak posted:There's no indication Caliban was having any problems while the two people who were 90+ were. I'm not sure if he's supposed to be that susceptible to sunlight since I don't think the Apocalypse version of him was an albino. But there is no way to know for sure since it was never spelled out that the food did it anyway, it just made sense as to why Xavier and Logan both had similar issues since Logan wouldn't really get old within Xavier's lifetime unless something was going on.
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Mar 21, 2017 07:19
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MrJacobs posted:I'm not sure if he's supposed to be that susceptible to sunlight since I don't think the Apocalypse version of him was an albino. But there is no way to know for sure since it was never spelled out that the food did it anyway, it just made sense as to why Xavier and Logan both had similar issues since Logan wouldn't really get old within Xavier's lifetime unless something was going on. His susceptibility to sunlight is pretty clearly a side-effect of his mutation. It's way more extreme a reaction than you'd get from him just being an albino. His power seems to be working fine. As the movie explicitly states, Wolverine is being poisoned by the adamantium, which is relatively recent. That's why he's getting old at the same time as Xavier.
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Mar 21, 2017 07:24
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MrJacobs posted:I'm not sure if he's supposed to be that susceptible to sunlight since I don't think the Apocalypse version of him was an albino. But there is no way to know for sure since it was never spelled out that the food did it anyway, it just made sense as to why Xavier and Logan both had similar issues since Logan wouldn't really get old within Xavier's lifetime unless something was going on. I just saw this for the second time, and I agree that I don't think it was the food. It was presented more as his healing factor just burning out. None of the movies ever established that Logan was actually immortal, so his power having a shelf life makes as much sense as anything else. I think it would have detracted from the rest of the story if it was the food: Logan doesn't even want to be on this mission, and at the end he gets a transformation (feeling the love of a family) that would have been cheapened by adding an element of payback to it. Anyway, some random thoughts and things I noticed the second time around: In a scene where Logan is looking over medical records of the kids, one of Laura's forms indicates she has adamantium implants at "sites Alpha-Delta," and then we get a partial view of a diagram of her body and "beta" written next to her left hand. So it's pretty well spelled out that Laura only has adamantium in her claws, and not the rest of her skeleton. Presumably they would have added that later when she was fully grown, but wanted her to have the metal claws from as early an age as possible. This ties in nicely with her fighting style, she relies completely on stealth and the element of surprise, and gets overpowered easily when she doesn't have it. Yeah, she shrugs off being harpooned through the chest, but once she gets surrounded it's over, and later X-24 has no trouble slapping her in irons. Someone said how disappointed they were that the thing that killed off the Wolverine was being impaled on a stick, but that's not quite accurate. Logan's healing factor was basically non-existent at this point (remember that he could barely stand after getting out of the Bronco, despite sleeping for hours), and he was shot a bunch of times, then impaled on a huge branch, and then stabbed in the heart by X-24. I don't agree that X-24 is the embodiment of Logan's rage, he's more the embodiment of the Weapon X program, of what Logan was supposed to be: an invincible soldier that can be dropped into a situation, slaughter everyone, and complete an objective. The only flaws are 1) he doesn't heal fast enough, and 2) he gets distracted easily. But mostly he did his job well enough, and would have been totally successful if Will Munson didn't own him with a truck. Logan still has his rage. He hates it, but he knows he needs it. First with the carjackers, he loses the fight until he lets himself get angry and then he fucks up their poo poo. But the best example is when Xavier is having his seizure at the casino. We know it's all in everyone's head, slot machines and elevators still work normally, but everyone's brain is on fire and they can't move more than their eyeballs. Laura's healing factor is miles ahead of Logan's, and even she's reduced to crawling along the floor uselessly. But for Logan, he wasn't just hanging on, fighting through a haze; he was angry as gently caress at being in pain, and he focused that rage and used it to punch through the effects of the seizure. No one else has the ability to even pull a trigger, and Logan is standing up and walking during the entire episode. Even when he confronts the rednecks at the pump station, it's there, ready to go. He would have slaughtered those guys without hesitating but they had the sense to run away before it got to that point. The perfectly edited cell phone video, and the kids standing in a circle waving their arms over Pierce while he screams felt even more jarring and out of place the second time around. I think a possible reason for rounding up the kids is that Dr. Rice wants to harvest what he can from them. Organs, blood, tissue, etc. He gives an order to do the same thing to Caliban after he dies. Yes, they've got DNA on file, but I get the impression that cloning is labour intensive and expensive (otherwise there would be like a dozen X-24s), and having all that available on hand is probably advantageous. Plus they make a big deal about the children being patented and owned, they don't want someone else getting their hands on proprietary DNA. Laura in particular, as the only one in the film with a fully functioning healing factor, would be useful for more study, presumably to fine tune the next iteration to heal faster. I think this and Deadpool are my two favourite superhero films. It turns out that letting people who know and care about the characters treat them the way they feel they should be without worrying about keeping it PG-13 makes for some quality cinema. The swearing didn't feel excessive, and it didn't feel forced. But obviously people in the situation Logan and Charles are in are going to swear. It's honestly more jarring in other films when the characters don't.
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Mar 21, 2017 09:00
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Personally I think "his skeleton has been full of metal for decades" is a pretty legit explanation on its own.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:22
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A Tasteful Nude posted:Literal plot wise, yeah. I guess you could comic-book over explain it and argue he might not have experienced aging but for gradual super-metal bone poisoning based upon a few lines in the movie, but the thematic answer is that life, specifically his violent life, is finally catching up with him - he's degraded enough that he's no longer The Motherfucking Wolverine, and spends the movie struggling with being just Logan. He kinda learns to be both A Good and Happy Logan AND The Motherfucking Wolverine, via his real and honest heroism. That's like... what the movie is about, I think. yeah i mean, iirc there's no explicit dialog saying that his healing factor is weakening because he's aging but it's a major thematic crux of the film that he's been who he is for too long to keep doing it for much longer; he's near the end of his life and his weapon x past is ruining what's left on both a figurative and literal level so it's a lot less punchy if the diminished healing factor was actually from an outside influence
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Mar 21, 2017 18:25
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Yeah, it seems like having to fight against the adamantium for so many years has worn him out. Makes me wonder if Laura will live forever
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Mar 21, 2017 18:48
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I'm curious if his healing factor was just failing because of his drinking for 9 million years, or if it was because of adamantium poisoning finally catching up with him, or if it was because if Viper putting a parasite on him or what. None of that particularly matters though, movie was great. I think it was a combination of everything. Old age, the adamantium, not taking care of himself because he never had to, the chemicals in the food, etc. He was a 200 year old man.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:45
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I thought he was much much younger?
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Mar 21, 2017 22:38
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I thought he was much much younger? Comic book Wolverine was born sometime in the 1880s, movie Wolverine was born in the 1820-1830s. So this Logan 200 years old or close to it.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:46
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Regarding his healing I agree that it was a combination of the adamantium grafts given it's already been established that the procedure would kill anyone without his healing abilities at a younger age, plus his extreme old age. Xavier's old parlor trick of being able to freeze everyone around him without consequence went completely awry in his old age, so there's no reason to believe Logan's powers wouldn't work the same way. I thought it was noteworthy that he never explicitly used his sense of smell, despite both Laura and Caliban "smelling" his poisoning. Yeah, it could be a denial thing, but him never using his smell to do anything compared to the other movies seems to lean in that direction. And in the end, he OD'ed on serum, which means a serious comedown and the total loss of his healing as a result. The only major "question" I have after seeing it twice is whether (end) The person Rictor is radioing that tells him "asylum confirmed" in Canada and info about satellite blind spots was on the level or just the Reavers loving with them and getting the kids to go exactly where they wanted. I'm fine with it either way. edit: another thing I liked about the movie is that it continued with the theme that Logan seems to care the most about mutants that have control taken away from them, whether by people or by nature. He left when Rogue got control of her powers, he nearly killed himself to "release" Jean, he became Xavier's caretaker when Charles lost control of his powers and killed the people closest to him, he tolerated Caliban because of how his powers were used by anti-mutant groups, and only had any interest in Laura when he realized what she was and why the Reavers wanted her. Grey Fox fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 05:00
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Grey Fox posted:Regarding his healing I agree that it was a combination of the adamantium grafts given it's already been established that the procedure would kill anyone without his healing abilities at a younger age, plus his extreme old age. Xavier's old parlor trick of being able to freeze everyone around him without consequence went completely awry in his old age, so there's no reason to believe Logan's powers wouldn't work the same way. I thought it was noteworthy that he never explicitly used his sense of smell, despite both Laura and Caliban "smelling" his poisoning. Yeah, it could be a denial thing, but him never using his smell to do anything compared to the other movies seems to lean in that direction. And in the end, he OD'ed on serum, which means a serious comedown and the total loss of his healing as a result. His healing ability was pretty much gone by then already. He slept for hours in the Bronco, and yet when he got up he could barely stand. Even after the kids gave him a little bit to bring him back to health, he wasn't able to run very far in pursuit. Compare that to his earlier fight with X-24 which he at least got up and walked away from Grey Fox posted:The only major "question" I have after seeing it twice is whether (end) The person Rictor is radioing that tells him "asylum confirmed" in Canada and info about satellite blind spots was on the level or just the Reavers loving with them and getting the kids to go exactly where they wanted. I'm fine with it either way. They're on the level. The reavers only found out their location a couple days prior, but the kids had been there for a week already and presumably that wasn't their first radio contact with whoever was waiting in Canada.
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Mar 22, 2017 07:46
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https://twitter.com/MrFilmkritik/status/844594063651344384
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Mar 22, 2017 18:07
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Did Rictor have earthquake powers?
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Mar 22, 2017 18:28
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Democratic Pirate posted:Did Rictor have earthquake powers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale
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Mar 22, 2017 19:51
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Yes that's why I asked, I couldn't remember if the dude had earthquake powers or not in the movie.
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Mar 23, 2017 01:08
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Democratic Pirate posted:Yes that's why I asked, I couldn't remember if the dude had earthquake powers or not in the movie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rictor Yeah he controls seismic energy, I guess he shifts the earth around the truck to flip it?
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Mar 23, 2017 12:13
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I really liked that bad guy wore a black tanktop and the good guy a white one in a obvious nod to the "white hat vs black hat" imagery of old westerns.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:49
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Not a whole lot of talk about Boyd Holbrooks character. I thought he was an excellent "villain" throughout. Was a big fan of his in Narcos but I expect his career is about to take off.
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Mar 28, 2017 07:16
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So of all the talk of X-24 being Wolverine's rage, there seems to be little talk of him being the brand. (apologies if I missed any discussion). The nurse, the Trump painted doctor, and I think even the lead Reaver all made comments on copyrights of the powers, property of the company. In that light, X-24 is the brand, a simple killing machine, the constant over all the stories, goes snikt and kills some dudes. Meanwhile we have the man, he's old, scarred, suffering from PTSD, and just kinda falling apart. And then there's the legend, the myth, a hero that will fights for what's right and kills the bad guys. The kids warn Logan not to take all of the drug at once, because it'll make him crazy, of note it just turns him into WolverineŽ instead. It's not that he's fighting his darker self at the end, it's that he's fighting what they try to make him. Both in story the Weapons X project, and in a meta sense Marvel comics. The kids, young fresh IPs, even if derivative, are still too dangerous, too risky, better to stand by the old and familar. In that Rice felt more inclined to treat X-24 as his son, than any of the children... Logan, as a man, the high of killing worn off, shoots Rice and holds back X-24 until the kids are safe, thus transcending to the myth. So he gets a hero's burial, while X-24 gets put down like a rabid dog. It is interesting, in this movie though, that toys and comics were totems of the myth, though when I suppose the reality of the brand is a literal killing machine. Bit like kids playing with soldiers and cowboys, go figure. My favourite section of the film was the hotel in Vegas, the Professor watching Shane with Laura was super cute, I had to laugh thinking about Logan's long ride up the elevator to save Charles and Laura, and Patrick Stewart's performance on the way out, his horrified apologies were just heartbreaking. I do feel these themes of man/myth/brand were better explored in Batman V Superman. Also think that's a stronger movie, but Logan was still really good, and I look forward to watching it and digesting it some more. Hopefully this trend of comic book movies exploring ideas rather than being beholden to brands sticks around.
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Mar 28, 2017 10:57
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All the talk of Wolverine-as-myth becomes incredibly facile once you actually consider what that myth is.
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Mar 28, 2017 11:33
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