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Im still a bit sad we never got a secret boss fight against the corrupted commander. I guess the encounter with 21O kinda fits the bill, but the way they explicitly avoid showing her die had me going for a while.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:36
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Im still a bit sad we never got a secret boss fight against the corrupted commander. I guess the encounter with 21O kinda fits the bill, but the way they explicitly avoid showing her die had me going for a while. I really expected this for the entire game, and it was kind of cool to subvert that expectation. But also, yeah, it would have been cool.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:38
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ymgve posted:Yeah, but they should have showed us that. Would be a nice twist if at some point when playing 2B during route C you suddenly get "New mission orders: E-type protocol activated. Eliminate the unit known as 9S" I'm kind of glad that didn't happen. I prefer how it's slowly built up with hints until the final reveal near the end when everyone's feelings are already boiling. There's plenty enough that conveys it without them throwing it into your face with a "2B has to murder 9S!" mission.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:42
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Im still a bit sad we never got a secret boss fight against the corrupted commander. I guess the encounter with 21O kinda fits the bill, but the way they explicitly avoid showing her die had me going for a while. Commander is an older generation android, she doesn't fight in the escape sequence because she doesn't stand a chance against yorha.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:41
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lets hang out posted:Commander is an older generation android, she doesn't fight in the escape sequence because she doesn't stand a chance against yorha. Yeah, but all bets are off with the corruption.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:43
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Snak posted:I really expected this for the entire game, and it was kind of cool to subvert that expectation. But also, yeah, it would have been cool. I'm actually really happy about this because I was totally 100% expecting Commander to be a villain in the end but she ended up being pretty much entirely sympathetic
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Mar 24, 2017 16:53
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Nina posted:I'm actually really happy about this because I was totally 100% expecting Commander to be a villain in the end but she ended up being pretty much entirely sympathetic Even at the end of Route B, you expect her to kill/memory wipe 9S for finding out the truth, but instead she just trusts him with it and considers the truth a burden.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:55
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I honestly expected the commander to be playable at some point and am kinda disappointed that she wasn't.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:59
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Nina posted:I'm actually really happy about this because I was totally 100% expecting Commander to be a villain in the end but she ended up being pretty much entirely sympathetic
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Mar 24, 2017 17:00
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Snak posted:Even at the end of Route B, you expect her to kill/memory wipe 9S for finding out the truth, but instead she just trusts him with it and considers the truth a burden. Yeah she feels more sad than anything. She likely knows 2B has to kill him now and it won't be happy for anyone involved when the time comes so she has no reason to really act against him.
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Mar 24, 2017 17:02
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Anyone else having trouble getting Ending E on PC? My game options are set to allow the network to connect and Steam is online, but I never got any option to accept help and died like crazy trying to do this on my own. Come to think of it, I've never been able to pray at another player's body, which I heard you need a network connection to do, but I never thought much of it until now. Please help, I want to give someone my save data. 
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Mar 24, 2017 17:05
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Nina posted:Yeah she feels more sad than anything. She likely knows 2B has to kill him now and it won't be happy for anyone involved when the time comes so she has no reason to really act against him. Do you think the Commander knows the backdoor is impending and the assault is a last ditch effort to win the war before the reset? And it's just not soon enough?
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Mar 24, 2017 17:08
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Snak posted:Do you think the Commander knows the backdoor is impending and the assault is a last ditch effort to win the war before the reset? And it's just not soon enough? Pretty sure the documents state that the backdoor was to be kept a secret from everyone in Yorha, including the Commander
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Mar 24, 2017 17:10
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Tarezax posted:Pretty sure the documents state that the backdoor was to be kept a secret from everyone in Yorha, including the Commander I know. But it seems pretty established that memories and information seem to have a way of persisting and coming back even when the shouldn't. I think you're right though, she had no idea.
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Mar 24, 2017 17:19
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Snak posted:I know. But it seems pretty established that memories and information seem to have a way of persisting and coming back even when the shouldn't. I think you're right though, she had no idea. I could see her having a hunch about it though since she was overseeing the Pearl Harbor mission which was another sacrificial unit which YoRHa succeeded. She might've known being sacrificed was inevitable, she just didn't know how it'd happen
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Mar 24, 2017 17:27
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nothing to do with plot chat but you all listen to this album of nier 1 remixes http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCEF3DCED11B6DEC5 specifically you should listen to the shadowlord remix STANKBALLS TASTYLEGS fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 18:01
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Nina posted:The thing is when she's actually in the situation where she's supposed to kill him she decides to send him away and goes off to die herself instead. Those two cases where 9S does die but it's not 2B's mission at the time to kill him are kinda shown for emotional impact I guess? the thing is, those feelings have been real for a long, long time- 2b is extremely in love with 9s. if she doesn't fulfill her duty, then her memories end up being at risk deleted and most likely someone else gets assigned to 9s, meaning she loses 9s in every way, both in the sense of her treasured memories and being near him. 9s usually grows to love 2b, somewhat due to residual memories and a general sense of familiarity due to how much time they've spent together despite his memory wipes. you can see this in his usage of the "nines" nickname, which is very clearly something that 2b came up with during one of his past 'lives'. according to a short story that published at the same time as the japanese release, even his ability to engage in close range combat is something he learned in one of his past lives as to kill 2b since he found out about her mission somehow in that one. 2b loves 9s for who he is, but is forced to kill him over and over again because it is her duty to do so. and in doing so, he is always forgetting the experiences and times they've shared together, good or bad- her being upset that 9s didn't remember sacrificing himself to save 2b in terms of uploading her memory first in the prologue or their mutual suicide is just one of hundreds, if not thousands of examples of things that make her just love him more. to note, it's possible that 2b already knows the secret of the yorha project and is willingly fighting in a pointless war just so that she can be close to 9s- if you take note of the virtuous contract and cruel blood oath's weapon stories, they're actually very blatantly about her relationship with 9s. the way she interacts with 9s is a constant battle between her wanting him to be closer to her and the emotional need to keep him distant enough so when it comes time to kill him, she can actually perform the deed as she remembers every single time she's done it. whenever she goes "emotions are prohibited" it's in response to something that is actually generating a strong enough reaction from her to where she's unconsciously saying it out loud so she doesn't give away her secret or her feelings. the only reason she doesn't kill 9s at the end of route b is because he never gets a chance to let her actually know about what is going on as the ground invasion of the earth starts- it's actually very possible that she was ordered to kill 9s some time during the actual invasion but due to what actually happens, she obviously doesn't go through with it. as for the current topic, yorha is set up by an android group to give androids a reason to continue fighting. they're built to win the war against machines still, but they're not built to last- the idea is that they show up out of nowhere as proof of humans being around still and then act as a powerful, disposable vanguard that exists to further the combat production ability of androids overall through data gathering. the machines became privy to this very early on, but the thing is that they allowed yorha to continue operating because they were found not to be a threat. it is programmed into the machines as a basic function to need an enemy to evolve. the machine network (the two red girls) was trying to figure out how to get around that, and their attempts at disabling it is what creates all the outliers from standard machines like the amusement park guys, pascal's village, the religious factory guys, and the forest kingdom. adam and eve are their final attempt in doing that, with the idea that by becoming more 'human' they can overcome the need for eternal warfare as a reason to exist. the reason why they build the rocket in the first place is to destroy the android's purpose for fighting and make them easier to manipulate for their goal of evolution. when the primary machine network host dies, (n1, 'red girls', whatever), adam and eve take over and show that they have grown past that need by launching the rocket as an ark for machines to find peace. if yall havent looked, you actually get an archive report file after you get ending C that explains the situation and proves who the best side character in the game is Fereydun fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 18:05
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Fereydun posted:if yall havent looked, you actually get an archive report file after you get ending C that explains the situation and proves who the best side character in the game is This is a great write-up, and hell yes, Jackass owns
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Mar 24, 2017 18:10
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A few weeks ago before many people cleared the game I read an article that 2B and 9S models were designed for affinity for one another since 9S will eventually needed to eliminated before finding out the truth. Also I always thought it was one-sided 9S' obsession with 2B even until the very end. A2 even mentioned, "she wanted you to be a good person" which feels platonic. Basically how much of 2B is 2B vs just being created to destroy 9S' models? And why didn't they install 2B into a new model since the blade contained all her memories?
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Mar 24, 2017 18:23
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Alder posted:A few weeks ago before many people cleared the game I read an article that 2B and 9S models were designed for affinity for one another since 9S will eventually needed to eliminated before finding out the truth. Also I always thought it was one-sided 9S' obsession with 2B even until the very end. A2 even mentioned, "she wanted you to be a good person" which feels platonic. Basically how much of 2B is 2B vs just being created to destroy 9S' models? And why didn't they install 2B into a new model since the blade contained all her memories? I'm not sure that the blade normally contained all her memories. I thought she stored them in the blade to give them to A2. Like a thumb drive. Like, I'm being corrupted, don't link with me, here's a filedump edit: I'm not sure that I agree completely with the idea that 2B is in love with 9S. Platonic and familial love are major themes in the story. 2B being a big sister to 9S seems at least as likely as her being in love with him. Snak fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 18:26
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If there's ever any story DLC, it'd better be the adventures of Jackass Bombs the Planet or it's a waste of time.
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Mar 24, 2017 18:45
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Snak posted:edit: I'm not sure that I agree completely with the idea that 2B is in love with 9S. Platonic and familial love are major themes in the story. 2B being a big sister to 9S seems at least as likely as her being in love with him. it can be any of those, it's not expressly romantic love. but it is "love" . Alder posted:A few weeks ago before many people cleared the game I read an article that 2B and 9S models were designed for affinity for one another since 9S will eventually needed to eliminated before finding out the truth. Also I always thought it was one-sided 9S' obsession with 2B even until the very end. A2 even mentioned, "she wanted you to be a good person" which feels platonic. Basically how much of 2B is 2B vs just being created to destroy 9S' models? And why didn't they install 2B into a new model since the blade contained all her memories? that question is a major part what forns 2b's character- the person who she exists as in the moment, the 2b who loves 9s can be lost just as easily as 9s loses his personhood. the version of 9s that goes out of his way to try and kill her in that short story is just more proof to 2b that the only way she can continue her existence is to continue her duty. it's why she has such a large focus on memories and experience
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Mar 24, 2017 18:56
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Fereydun posted:it can be any of those, it's not expressly romantic love. but it is "love" . Agreed.
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Mar 24, 2017 18:58
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Man, i should really not have dicked around for like 10 minutes in the system settings at the start
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Mar 24, 2017 19:09
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Haha yeah I had to watch myself try to turn off self destruct mode for about five minutes
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Mar 24, 2017 19:12
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You actually can, as long as you do it after the part where 9S says you can't. But it's not an oversight, it triggers additional dialogue.
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Mar 24, 2017 19:14
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Snak posted:edit: I'm not sure that I agree completely with the idea that 2B is in love with 9S. Platonic and familial love are major themes in the story. 2B being a big sister to 9S seems at least as likely as her being in love with him. I'd normally agree with you but there is a lot of uncomfortable sexual symbolism in the game regarding those two (the strangling scene, the thing 9s does with the dead 2b copy before he rips off its arm, etc.) It feels like their relationship is meant to have a romantic/sexual aspect that the audience is not necessarily supposed to be totally on board with. Of course, it's really subtle so I might just be misreading/overthinking things.
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Mar 24, 2017 19:16
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Some yorha stuff: I think that yorha is new, that it hasn't continuously been rebuilt. Afterall, the "point" of the conflict is that the machines and androids are evolving and trying new strategies. So Yorha would be the first time that the Androids have a) had to mess around with the human server/deceive everyone about humans being alive and b) created a large scale sacrificial lamb, with A2's unit being the test run.
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Mar 24, 2017 19:25
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I agree with that, there'd be no point in using A2's unit as a dummy run if the YorHa's were constantly in a destruction cycle. That's not to say they haven't done it before with different models though.
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Mar 24, 2017 19:29
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Zinkraptor posted:I'd normally agree with you but there is a lot of uncomfortable sexual symbolism in the game regarding those two (the strangling scene, the thing 9s does with the dead 2b copy before he rips off its arm, etc.) It feels like their relationship is meant to have a romantic/sexual aspect that the audience is not necessarily supposed to be totally on board with. Of course, it's really subtle so I might just be misreading/overthinking things. I think that it's okay for it to be complicated. Firstly, they aren't "actual siblings" no matter what, so it's not like it it's creepy or incestuous for their feelings to be a confused mix of platonic and romantic love.
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Mar 24, 2017 19:31
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Snak posted:I think that it's okay for it to be complicated. Firstly, they aren't "actual siblings" no matter what, so it's not like it it's creepy or incestuous for their feelings to be a confused mix of platonic and romantic love. It's forbidden love in the sense that 2B knows that in the end, 9S has to die by her hands.
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Mar 24, 2017 19:38
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In regards to 2B and 9S I kinda like it being a mix of platonic and romantic love between them. A confused thing where they are a bit unsure of what's going on, but just know that they want to be together. It's a bit more different than the usual "the lead characters are romantic interests".Fereydun posted:if yall havent looked, you actually get an archive report file after you get ending C that explains the situation and proves who the best side character in the game is gently caress I missed this. I immediately went for ending D, which led into E and I felt like I had to give my save up right then and there since I was a bit drunk and way in to the moment 
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Mar 24, 2017 20:00
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When 9S gets told that 2B is meant to kill him all the time, it flashes back to the two times she killed him. But... the game makes it sound like it's happened more than that? She says "it always ends like this" or something at the end of the first half of the game, but what is "it"? I've only finished route C, I guess I might learn more if I pick the other person.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:01
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really queer Christmas posted:In regards to 2B and 9S I kinda like it being a mix of platonic and romantic love between them. A confused thing where they are a bit unsure of what's going on, but just know that they want to be together. It's a bit more different than the usual "the lead characters are romantic interests". I feel like a huge piece of poo poo because i accepted someone's rescue offer, but then didn't give up my save because I wasn't ready to. I figured "I will just sacrifice my save later. But then I realized that you don't get the opportunity to sacrifice your save until after the part where you need rescued (obviously). So to redeem myself, I'm eventually going to have to get ending E without help so I haven't used a rescue without giving back edit: v I don't see why it would be, though. Snak fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 20:05
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Uh you might have trouble with that from what I've read it's literally impossible to finish without getting help.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:07
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Question about all this 2B and 9S stuff to someone who knows Japanese Is the line that in English goes "I want him" as explicit in Japanese? It feels like the kind of delivery that could easily be very different
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Mar 24, 2017 20:19
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Sakurazuka posted:Uh you might have trouble with that from what I've read it's literally impossible to finish without getting help. It sounds like you're right. Does that mean I'm just a bad person forever? I don't really get it though, how can there be a sustainable number of rescues? Like, where did the first wave of rescues come from? Someone was the first person to play the game. Even if there was a seed rescue for them, they only generate one rescue. Won't people who play this game in like 3 weeks simply not have any rescues available?
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Mar 24, 2017 20:21
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Snak posted:It sounds like you're right. Does that mean I'm just a bad person forever? IIRC someone in the thread saw the same person helping them twice so I don't think it actually removes the data
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Mar 24, 2017 20:23
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that... Is actually super cool and makes me feel a little bit better. The idea that your data is gone forver, but your legacy lives on as part of an ever growing host of guardian angels is cool.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:26
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Nina posted:IIRC someone in the thread saw the same person helping them twice so I don't think it actually removes the data It wouldn't really make sense if it did. There's no way there's more people giving up their save data than there are data sacrificed, that's just completely impossible. The only alternative is if the devs provided a giant pool of saves to draw on if there isn't any player data (which they probably did anyway, since otherwise there's no way the first player to clear the ending would've been able to do so)
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