Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

Chakan: Mar 30, 2011

Decrepus posted:

Why do you guys want experience in lair so much? There are 28 floors of hell and the infinite realms of pandemonium and the abyss to scum. :crawldev:

I'm telling ya...

Chakan posted:

I would love to see a trunk with the shortened branches but 1.5x XP from all monsters. It would be fun to play around in.

# ? Mar 24, 2017 21:58

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# ? May 14, 2024 00:08

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

Please make Spider 1 floor because holy loving poo poo.

# ? Mar 24, 2017 22:02

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

"Create your own fork" is dumb advice because

someone awful. posted:

If there were a way to keep the modern Crawl UI but go back versions, I'd do it, but the dev/s working on that stuff have improved the game so much, like, leaps and bounds

Also please make the game harder by adding cool new and dangerous monsters, not screwing us even more on exp

# ? Mar 24, 2017 22:13

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

I imagine 1 floor branches would look like the 2nd pass of a Ziggurat after you completed the 1st one

# ? Mar 24, 2017 22:15

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

SKULL.GIF posted:

This is an overreaction. dpeg's direct contributions to Crawl are almost entirely vaults and emails to crawl-ref-discuss with suggestions for things to think about implementing or problems that need further thought. Anything that comes from him that gets into the game is filtered through the rest of the dev team. You might as well advocate for the entire dev team to be removed.

Fortunately, there's a way to do that! You can fork Crawl!

quote:

David is focused on making the game harder. �It�s too easy,� he told me four different times.

I mean, in the interview that's not the impression he's trying to make. Sure he's added plenty of cool stuff before, I get that, but it seems like he's focused on trying to make the game harder. Those are his words, not mine. And coming from someone that isn't even particularly good at the game that's pretty dumb.

# ? Mar 24, 2017 22:21

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

fool_of_sound posted:

I'm 100% cool with that, though I think torment is overused. Giving high end enemies Vulnerability+status effects or resistance stripping would give it more variety. And I'm really glad someone is looking at it.

I'm with fool_of_sound here. Channeled/cast-time effects create immediate interesting decisions (there it is!) for players, because they immediately grab your attention and say "hey, you need to do something about this now or you'll seriously regret it." Enemies just being able to instantly do a thing isn't really interesting outside of tediously managing LoS with them.

# ? Mar 24, 2017 22:54

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

They've been pretty good about adjusting XP every time they shrunk a branch. Over the years I've got no complaint about the amount of XP coming in. In fact I find it slightly easier to be a hybrid with the old change to Okawaru's heroism, Ashenzari, other gods and potions of brilliance. I've actually even found it slightly easier to hit max level on a demon spawn before Zot, but that is because I'm more confident with abyss, slime, and elven halls (without I'm stretching to hit 25, but that is a long-standing factor of their slow leveling aptitude).

On the other hand, this made shaft traps considerably more hateful, skipping floors a little acceptably worse, and poorly placed vaults nastier. In particular my formicids wished the dungeons were deeper or shafts consistently dropped you exactly two floors past D:7.

# ? Mar 24, 2017 23:48

Wolfechu: May 2, 2009; All the world's a stage I'm going through

tote up a bags posted:

2. As ever, QOL changes are almost all great. Auto cutting+eating of chunks when VHungry is dope.

Little late here, but what new sorcery is this, and how do I add it to my rcfile?

E: nm, figured it out from the trunk changes blog

Wolfechu fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Mar 25, 2017

# ? Mar 25, 2017 00:02

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

Yeah, XP balancing has never really been a problem as long as I've played crawl. I remember there was wailing and gnashing of teeth when they said they were compressing orc, too, but that ended up being fine.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:07

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

Yeah, XP balancing has never really been a problem as long as I've played crawl. I remember there was wailing and gnashing of teeth when they said they were compressing orc, too, but that ended up being fine.

You're not typical.

I have huge xp problems every game. I clear Elf:3 for the xp. The xp budget on a 3-4 rune game is crazy tight.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:28

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

If you're good at crawl it's probably fine. I'm... I'd say subpar and I am usually sitting on the edge of mishandling my XP whenever I play a hybrid; it's tough for sure

I pity anyone worse than me, or who uses auto skill (newbies?). If the devs remove more XP without doing something to compensate, I'll be even more upset than usual, so please do not

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:34

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

If you're a strong character with good apts, you're totally fine.

If you're a hybrid or something like mummy/troll with less good apts, there are some pretty nasty bottlenecks where you've run out of places to get XP that aren't super dangerous. I find that this is most common going from lair/orc to lair branches and more rarely when going from vaults/Zot/etc into extended.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:41

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

Yeah, XP balancing has never really been a problem as long as I've played crawl. I remember there was wailing and gnashing of teeth when they said they were compressing orc, too, but that ended up being fine.

I don't remember anyone complaining about the Orc change before it went through. Nobody cleared Orc for exp since the first 3 floors usually had nothing but trash. Its all about that sweet gold, which was adjusted to be distributed across two floors.

Honestly the dungeon being shortened never really concerns me exp wise because despite playing tons of subpar combos I rarely have exp trouble. However I also pretty much always do extended so I know how to wring out all the exp I need to do whatever I want. What bothers me more is that shorter dungeons compound the danger even more and make you more prone to being hosed over by an OOD spawn in the early game. Later on this isn't an issue, but less floors does mean less loot. If the game got significantly shorter, character power level would drop even if exp was adjusted just because you find less items.

I think the length of Crawl is fine right now for the main game. Extended needs some of the fat trimmed badly.

Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Mar 25, 2017

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:51

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Lair is more dangerous now than it used to be. Not judging that as good or bad, but it's definitely harder. I do feel more strain in Lair than I would like on weaker builds (hybrids).

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:08

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Internet Kraken posted:

I don't remember anyone complaining about the Orc change before it went through.

I did but not because of any exp or gold reasons. I just enjoyed Orc because it came at that sweet time of just finishing Lair that most characters are coming into their defining powers and equipment. It was the place where you could just stomp through giant hordes of popcorn and it just felt gooood.

World Famous W fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Mar 25, 2017

# ? Mar 25, 2017 04:06

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

SKULL.GIF posted:

You can fork Crawl!

I've seen this mentioned a few times in the past few days, and I'm not sure if it's intentional, ironic, or unknowing of it's subtext: "It's my way or the highway" or more modernly "You will like it, or gently caress off". It was a common approach to any criticism on a GNU/linux project for a long time, and a user who is questioning an implementation or other issue might have a very valid concern, but be in no position to tackle the gargantuan task of forking and maintaining literally anything. It's especially odious for a project as large and legacy-bound as crawl; not even the most prolific code contributor would want to take on 100% of everything, which forking implies. I can understand the fustration feelings of being unappreciated that comes with all the public criticism, but if you want to tell someone to shut their pie-hole, just say so ;p

# ? Mar 25, 2017 05:08

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

# ? Mar 25, 2017 08:51

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

it's a walk-in closet

# ? Mar 25, 2017 08:55

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

i'm squinting but i don't think i can see the loss.jpg reference

# ? Mar 25, 2017 08:56

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

There's a hidden door behind it but your Traps & Doors skill isn't high enough to find it

# ? Mar 25, 2017 09:02

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

I used to be bad at hybrids too, and then I discovered the word of Ashenzari. You too can find salvation through bondage and see the truth of the dungeon. :catholic:

# ? Mar 25, 2017 09:04

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

Ash is great and underrated but sometimes you want to play an actually interesting god instead of one who is merely insanely useful. It's a good point though

# ? Mar 25, 2017 10:40

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

ash is fun because of scrying/detect mon but it takes long enough to get rolling with them that I can't justify it most of the time

# ? Mar 25, 2017 11:00

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

someone awful. posted:

Ash is great and underrated but sometimes you want to play an actually interesting god instead of one who is merely insanely useful. It's a good point though

All those spells you can cast because of Ash that you couldn't with another god are your god powers. Also try an earth stabber of Ash, it's loads of fun.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 11:37

Pinechild: Sep 14, 2011

I got Ash from a faded altar on an unarmed GhGl one time and all I came away with was a burning need for Ash to be able to curse my hands open. I suppose what I was supposed to do would have been to pick a weapon, but honestly I would have made the decision to give up my crossbow for the ability to get more bound. Maybe I just don't understand how you're supposed to play Ash.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 19:28

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

The first thing to realize is I'm god awful at Transmuters, and even Ashenzari won't make them suck less. They're no ghoul gladiator, but the fists are the same. Ash is more suited towards starts with a hex/conj focus and even then he isn't always suitable thanks to his dependence on the floorgod.

I think it might be good if you could sacrifice an incoming level of exp (like penance), to get two scrolls of remove curse as a one-use ability.

In the early game, Ash is particularly good with shortblades (don't need the curse to hit with a venomous dagger), staves, bucklers/shields, and throwing weapons. Getting bound in armor is mostly irrelevant, your priority is cursing one amulet and one ring, even more than getting a weapon curse. With that setup, you have a swap for needed resists, and the skill boost will take spell skills from around one to three levels to just start out, making it easier to pick up imps/canine familiar/mephitic cloud, blink, etc. Failing that, my second choice is a shield/buckler as the skill boost has a huge impact on your casting rate (as long as you have the skill boosts before you curse). If you decide you don't want a shield later on, you can easily transfer your skill out. My last choice is a weapon, because I may find something like a staff of power or a blowgun with lots of curare. Because of this, I tend to favor one-handers and shortblades in the early game, while being willing to abandon it and transfer xp if I find something good enough I know I won't be wanting to swap much.

Honestly though, I am half as likely to worship Ashenzari if I don't have the jewellery to curse or the books to justify spreading out my skills.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 20:37

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Bikeshedding question: Cyno, Gnoll, or something else? If Gnoll, pick an arbitrary adjective (ex. Forest Gnoll/FG, can't start with D or O) to add to the name; Gn is taken by Gnomes and will mess up Scoring if used.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 20:38

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Gnoll (Gl). Goon Gnoll (gg). Mountain Gnoll. High Gnoll.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 20:43

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

LordSloth posted:

Gnoll (Gl). Goon Gnoll (gg). Mountain Gnoll. High Gnoll.

Dank Gnoll, Okay Gnoll

Grassy Gnoll

Pretzel Gnoll, Kaiser Gnoll, Sushi Gnoll

Surface Gnoll, Cave Gnoll

For real though, I like Mountain Gnoll

# ? Mar 25, 2017 20:52

Mu.: Sep 15, 2003; The thing about Forevereal Modding Mu is that he loves editing files and wants others to download his permanent mods. Fully editing, rich text, altering files and loving it. Download his mods and enjoy it.

Bultungin.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 21:00

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

Is "Leech" worth using??

# ? Mar 25, 2017 22:06

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

I'm going to do it, i"m going to use "Leech"

# ? Mar 25, 2017 22:11

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

It's a vampiric demon blade.

Unless you have A: huge investment in non-blades B: a better vampiric sword or C: are in extended, the answer is yes.

Also it's a fixedart so the answer is yes anyway since you almost never get that chance.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 22:12