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I've spent so much time talking about MoS might as well put in my two cents here too. Watching MoS is kind of like playing a game of telephone where you're trying to decipher what Goyer and Nolan were trying to say, and how much of it was garbled by the directing. Pa Kent tells Clark "don't never stick out your neck for nobody!" The kneejerk reaction a lot of audiences had at first was that Jonathan Kent was a horrible dad, but they initially glossed over the fact that Jonathan Kent died saving the family dog. Clark is there staring at his dad being killed and is trying to reconcile the fact that his dad told him not to risk himself for others with the fact that he just died saving a loving dog. The movie doesn't spell it out, so the conclusion that Clark and the audience have to come to on their own is that Jonathan only told Clark not to risk himself because he worried so much about Clark. Do as I say, but not as I do. But Clark matures and decides he wants to follow his dad's actions not his words, so he puts himself out there to save the weak. That's some good poo poo screenwriting. On paper. In the movie you get Jonathan Kent swallowed up cartoonishly by a tornado as he holds his hand out towards Clark, standing upright as if there were nothing more than a desk fan blowing in his direction, swallowed up by a tornado as dense as the black smoke from Lost. X-O posted:Yeah it's more powerful when it's a death he can't prevent than when he let's him die an easily preventable death right in front of him. I prefer the idea that his dad's death was something that he actually could have physically prevented, but was held back from doing so by his dad's instruction. When you have a guy with almost-omnipotence, it's probably more interesting to make Superman's challenges moral/mental ones. It hearkens back to Lois' death in Superman 1. Superman always had the strength to beat Luthor, but held back because of Jor-El's instructions. When he finds Lois dead, he flies up in the clouds and hears Jor-El's booming voice telling him it's forbidden to interfere in human history. Then he hears Jonathan Kent's voice telling him that he's bound to do great things on Earth. The last voice he hears is his own, lamenting the fact that he couldn't save Jonathan Kent. He's determined not to let Lois die, so he must disobey Jor-El and listen to Jonathan Kent. This is the climax of the film. Think about Spiderman. His uncle died because of a bad decision he made. He wrestles with that guilt and it drives him to be a hero ever after. Superman in MoS is similarly wrestling with the fact that he let his dad die because of dad's instructions not to expose himself. Afterwards, he lets himself get exposed in order to save humans. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 10:59
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The dog scene is interesting because it's typical parenting "Do as I say, not as I do". Pa didn't want to risk Clark exposing himself because at this point he wasn't ready for the burden of the consequences. Why didn't Superman save him? Because Pa loving stared him right in the eye and told him not to. He'd rather give his life than put Clark in a position he won't be ready for. It's also interesting that Pa gives up his life to save a pet, as it reflects on Supermans decision to save humanity, a "lesser" species to the kryptonians. Superman spends most of the movie helping people, something people tend to forget because of the movies climax. He saves Lois, the people at the oilrig, the folks in the schoolbus etc etc. The problem is that people project their version of Superman onto this one. "Why didn't he superspeed his dad out of the Tornado?" "Why didn't he catch the truck?" "Why did he cause all that collateral damage?" "Why didn't he find another way instead of snapping Zods neck?" The answer to these is because this version of Superman isn't the omnipotent omniscient one from the comics who's hidden superpower is to always knows what to do. He didn't catch the truck because he acted on reflex and hosed up (and Zod would have just barreled through it anyways otherwise), he couldn't stop the collateral damage because he's fighting someone just as powerful as he is who wants to gently caress as much poo poo up as he can, etc I said it before, Snyder isn't trying to portray a powerfantasy here. He's aiming for a more "realistic" Superman, and to me that makes him more relatable. He has doubts, limits and makes mistakes, that's not a flaw to me.
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Mar 25, 2017 12:17
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Personally I thought the visual of Pa Kent being swallowed up was beautiful. His ghost speech about hero cake is also my favorite thing in BvS.
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Mar 25, 2017 13:25
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McCloud posted:Superman spends most of the movie helping people, something people tend to forget because of the movies climax. He saves Lois, the people at the oilrig, the folks in the schoolbus etc etc. The problem is that people project their version of Superman onto this one. "Why didn't he superspeed his dad out of the Tornado?" "Why didn't he catch the truck?" "Why did he cause all that collateral damage?" "Why didn't he find another way instead of snapping Zods neck?" The answer to these is because this version of Superman isn't the omnipotent omniscient one from the comics who's hidden superpower is to always knows what to do. He didn't catch the truck because he acted on reflex and hosed up (and Zod would have just barreled through it anyways otherwise), he couldn't stop the collateral damage because he's fighting someone just as powerful as he is who wants to gently caress as much poo poo up as he can, etc Again, people are projecting their views of Superman onto this version because the movie fails to present any sort of take of its own on the character. And the issue is not with the logic of the scenes, stop doing this. The issue is that neither Pa Kent nor Superman ever make sense as characters so their decisions come off as inherently silly or bizarre. Going for "realistic Superman" is pretty lame in the first place, but for a movie that doesn't actually have anything to say about the character it's pure poison. What, exactly, is relatable about Superman? Because while you can go "he makes mistakes" all day, it doesn't hold up because Superman intentionally comes off as alien to the audience, and because the logic of his decisions is never established dramatically. His "limits" are also bullshit, because the movie never shows him ever even trying to hold himself back or actually fail at anything.
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Mar 25, 2017 13:28
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Arist posted:Again, people are projecting their views of Superman onto this version because the movie fails to present any sort of take of its own on the character. And the issue is not with the logic of the scenes, stop doing this. The issue is that neither Pa Kent nor Superman ever make sense as characters so their decisions come off as inherently silly or bizarre. The movie does present its own take on the character. Pay attention and you'll see it clearly! And going for a "realistic Superman" is just as valid a choice as going for the completely unrealistic Uberman that's portrayed in the comics. Just because you yourself don't like it or don't see the merit in the choices does not mean they are not there.
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Mar 25, 2017 13:40
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lol you're definitely trolling, effort met with no effort is too obvious my man
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Mar 25, 2017 13:41
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Arist posted:lol you're definitely trolling, effort met with no effort is too obvious my man Your "effort" boils down to you going "Nuh uh!". I am simply responding in kind. You want to make an argument that Superman and Pa don't make sense as characters, then make one, don't just state it like it's an absolute fact. Hit me with examples! Here, let me start! "His "limits" are also bullshit, because the movie never shows him ever even trying to hold himself back or actually fail at anything." Half the movie is about Clark holding himself back. Like, all the flashbacks are about him controlling his powers and constantly holding back to not hurt anyone. The bully scenes (both of them) are all about him holding himself back. In fact the only time he can let loose is during his fights with the Kryptonians, at which he is at a disadvantage because he's never fought in his life! He also fails at alot of things, like saving people during the metropolis fight, and soldiers during smallville fight. Why? Is it because he doesn't care about people? No, the earlier scenes of him saving people contradicts this. Is it maybe that he can't because he's outmatched and barely holding his own against a foe with the same powers he has, AND more martial training? Hm, that makes a bit more sense, doesn't it? Now you try!
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Mar 25, 2017 15:13
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I've come to support Superman, and Zach Snyder.
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Mar 25, 2017 15:22
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My dad says his favourite superhero movie is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. I suppose it makes sense in a way. He has a costume (leather jacket, fedora) and a sort of origin story ( Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 15:31
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Wheat Loaf posted:My dad says his favourite superhero movie is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Your father is obviously a man of taste.
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Mar 25, 2017 15:45
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My dad's favorite superhero film is Mrs. Doubtfire.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:17
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My Dad's favourite is Dudley Do-Right. He thinks all mounties are superheros .....It's kinda weird.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:29
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The JL trailer is out and How much loving slo mo does one movie NEED?
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Mar 25, 2017 16:43
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TFRazorsaw posted:The JL trailer is out and There's a Baywatch movie coming out so they need to be competitive.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:52
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TFRazorsaw posted:The JL trailer is out and I haven't seen the movie, TFRazorsaw, so I'm afraid I can't tell you.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:02
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TFRazorsaw posted:The JL trailer is out and There's a slow motion shot of someone running a football for a split second. I laughed hard.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:03
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It's not a bad trailer but I can already tell they're trying too hard to sell Aquaman and Cyborg looks even worse the more we see of him.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:23
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I guess it's a step in the right direction if the aesthetics bother me more than anything in the text Cyborg and the Parademons (?) look real real bad. Between this and Power Rangers I'm wondering if it actually makes you part of the minority to think that a bunch of jagged, nonsensical, constantly moving metal bits is poor design?
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Mar 25, 2017 17:33
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Trailers don't necessarily indicate the quality of a movie but uh... "Come Together" playing in the background was just so so awful
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Mar 25, 2017 17:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cxixDgHUYw This is the worst case of "Video Game Cutscene Montage: The Movie" I've ever seen.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:53
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Good to see Batman can continue his shooting spree for another movie
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Mar 25, 2017 18:04
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So is Superman gonna be in this or not. I know he's "dead". But JL without Superman...
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Mar 25, 2017 18:05
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That looks so busy. Can't see poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2017 18:07
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Sorry, "Best Use of The Beatles in a Comic-Book Movie Trailer" goes to Valerian  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNrK7xVG3PM New trailer on the 29th!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbgIDbaWI8o
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Mar 25, 2017 18:08
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OnimaruXLR posted:I guess it's a step in the right direction if the aesthetics bother me more than anything in the text I mean that's been the standard since the first Transformers movie and it's been lovely the whole time. Maybe someday clean lines will come back and graphic designers won't feel the need to fill every space with lines.
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Mar 25, 2017 18:32
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Arist posted:It's not a bad trailer but I can already tell they're trying too hard to sell Aquaman and Cyborg looks even worse the more we see of him. I dunno, Cyborg at least didn't look like crumpled tinfoil in this one.
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Mar 25, 2017 18:43
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It's cool how they are combining the DC films like Batman v Superman and Justice League with the Stranger Things universe by having all the DC fights take place in the dark nothingness of the Upside Down
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Mar 25, 2017 18:44
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Darth Various posted:I dunno, Cyborg at least didn't look like crumpled tinfoil in this one. Obvious CG character is obvious.
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Mar 25, 2017 18:49
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haitfais posted:Obvious CG character is obvious. I have this same problem with Seasame Street. It's so obvious the monsters are just puppets.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:21
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Schwarzwald posted:I have this same problem with Seasame Street. It's so obvious the monsters are just puppets. This is the worst comparison ever.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:33
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The Brad Pitt Cable concept art is honestly a better looking take on Half Robot Dude. edit: Blockhouse posted:that one's super hosed because it comes out of nowhere in the middle of an issue that starts off with a goofy pirate journey and then turns into superboy's increasingly desperate attempts to save his parents  I had to look this up, and yep.quote:After Clark graduates from high school, Jonathan and Martha take a vacation to the Caribbean Islands, where they contract a fatal and rare tropical disease after handling materials from a pirate's treasure chest they had exhumed; despite Superboy's best efforts, Martha dies, with Jonathan dying soon thereafter. Before dying, Jonathan reminds Clark that he must always use his powers for the benefit of humanity. Clark mourns his parents and moves to Metropolis to attend college. mycot fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 19:36
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teagone posted:Yeah, Pa Kent's death was easily preventable, sure. Clark could have either zipped in super fast to get his dad out of harm's way, or maybe he could have gone into the thick of the storm himself to save their dog and come out the other side unscathed. You could argue that Pa Kent wanted Clark to stay with his mother and the others in the underpass, because he knew Clark would be able to protect them should the tornado do something unpredictable (since tornadoes tend to be); it was a conscious choice to ensure to safety of the greater good. But Pa Kent was also convinced the world was not ready to see Clark for who is. He was a father ready and willing to sacrifice himself for the safety of his own son. There's some neat subtext going on in the scene too; it reveals the morality and responsibility for those who have strength and power to protect those who cannot protect themselves, even if it means getting hurt or even giving your own life to do so. The worst part about that scene to me is that I have had to spend some dreadful months in Missouri and Kansas and nobody would ever abandon their cars to run to an overpass during a tornado. That's one of the worst places to gather people during a storm!
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Mar 25, 2017 19:45
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The worst part about that scene to me is that I have had to spend some dreadful months in Missouri and Kansas and nobody would ever abandon their cars to run to an overpass during a tornado. Yeah i think that part was an honest goof
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Mar 25, 2017 19:49
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McCloud posted:
The problem with this, is that its implied we ASSUME he's doing this because he has some sort of moral compass a scene that sticks out to me in The First Avenger is the "I just don't like bullies" scene. Its a perfect summation of (MCU) Steve Rogers. All I wanted was just ONE SCENE like this in MoS/BvS YES we see youre doing altrusitic things, but WHY? How does the character FEEL doing it? BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 20:27
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Arist posted:This is the worst comparison ever. Chewbacca is obviously a man in a costume. The T-800, bereft of flesh, is obviously stop motion animation. The new Cyborg is obviously CG. Of course he is. What's the problem?
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Mar 25, 2017 20:38
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The problem is he looks like poo poo. e: You bring up the T-800 as if that wasn't also distracting. That's the issue, it's distracting. It's not even just that he's CG, it's that he's overdesigned as hell. Arist fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 21:04
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Schwarzwald posted:Chewbacca is obviously a man in a costume. The T-800, bereft of flesh, is obviously stop motion animation. The new Cyborg is obviously CG. The T-800 looked pretty decent for the time. This is just bad CGI for right now.
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Mar 25, 2017 21:09
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People always bitch about CGI in trailers. It's not the finished product. Doomsday looked like rear end in the trailer and pretty drat good in the film.
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Mar 25, 2017 21:11
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Arist posted:The problem is he looks like poo poo. That's design's doing more then the CG. Seriously though, how do you make a bunch of triangle in a vaguely human shape look good on any medium?
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Mar 25, 2017 21:12
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Rhyno posted:Doomsday looked like rear end in the trailer and pretty drat good in the film. Ha. Nice joke. I mean that's probably the worst trailer for any of the DC movies, so maybe that means the movie will be good unlike the last two films. That Cyborg is as unsalvageable as the character in the comics is though. Also a poo poo Beatles cover doesn't help. Just spend the cash for the real thing.
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Mar 25, 2017 21:13
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